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If ADP stays healthy over his career (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter monkeysee
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He moved past Kevin Jones today into 250th place all-time today.
Timely thread.
Timely thread.
Touchdown Syndrome
Footballguy
Actually, most hardcore fans and NFL histrorians would say Jim Brown is the best ever. Sanders is definitely the best player I ever actually saw, though.Hard to judge with AP. Obviously, it's WAY too soon. There have been a ton of RBs that had 2 or 3 really good seasons in a row.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Way too early. c'mon.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He's had zero top 20 seasons and one in the top 125.
Right now he's not even Terril Davis pre-injury.
Let's bump this in 2014.
Right now he's not even Terril Davis pre-injury.
Let's bump this in 2014.
I know. Just throwing it out there. If given the choice what RB in his prime would you build your franchise around though? This guy just blows me away.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Most rushing yards per game after a player's first two seasons, min: 18 games:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/4CLc4
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/4CLc4
Code:
Game Game Rush Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player From To Tm Lg G GS Att Yds Y/A TD Y/G1 Eric Dickerson* 1983 1984 RAM NFL 32 32 769 3913 5.09 32 122.32 Clinton Portis 2002 2003 DEN NFL 29 25 563 3099 5.50 29 106.93 Adrian Peterson 2007 2008 MIN NFL 30 24 601 3101 5.16 22 103.44 Jim Brown* 1957 1958 CLE NFL 24 24 459 2469 5.38 26 102.95 Edgerrin James 1999 2000 CLT NFL 32 32 756 3262 4.31 26 101.96 Earl Campbell* 1978 1979 OTI NFL 31 30 670 3147 4.70 32 101.57 George Rogers 1981 1982 NOR NFL 22 21 500 2209 4.42 16 100.48 Ottis Anderson 1979 1980 CRD NFL 32 32 632 2957 4.68 17 92.49 Billy Sims 1980 1981 DET NFL 30 30 609 2740 4.50 26 91.310 LaDainian Tomlinson 2001 2002 SDG NFL 32 32 711 2919 4.11 24 91.211 Barry Sanders* 1989 1990 DET NFL 31 29 535 2774 5.19 27 89.512 Terrell Davis 1995 1996 DEN NFL 30 30 582 2655 4.56 20 88.5
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Touchdown Syndrome
Footballguy
Exactly.Just off the top of my head, as far as RBs i've ever seen play, he's behind (in no particular order):SandersM.FaulkDickersonTomlinsonPaytonBo JacksonE.SmithE.JamesT.DavisC.MartinP.HolmesMarcus Allen
Thanks Chase. Dickerson was so good.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Great query, thanks Chase.3rd in YPG...and 9th (out of those 12, there may be more) in TDs.Chase Stuart said:
The dude is awesome but he doesn't even have a body of work to include him the conversation yet.
He should get there...but then so should have Campbell, Sims, TD, et al.
In a perfect world if he stayed healthy his entire career I would say # 1 all time. The problem is it's so hard for backs to stay healthy. I will say this about him, I have never seen any RB with all of the attributes that he has with his combination of speed, power, agility and most important vision. People knock him for his receptions but that is not the way his offense usues him so I'm not holding that against him. I have Barry # 1 right now and ADP # 2 if he was able to find some way to stay healthy for his career then his body of work would put him at # 1 all time IMO.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Sanders is certainly a solid comparison for Peterson.
Here's a wacky post I wrote on RB personality types. Peterson, like Sanders, falls into the E-Y-R-S personality type; exciting (high YPC), yardage guy (as opposed to a TD guy), rusher (as opposed to being more of a pass catcher) and small (as opposed to, uh, big).
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3598
Here's a wacky post I wrote on RB personality types. Peterson, like Sanders, falls into the E-Y-R-S personality type; exciting (high YPC), yardage guy (as opposed to a TD guy), rusher (as opposed to being more of a pass catcher) and small (as opposed to, uh, big).
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=3598
Ok well people that live on my planet do.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Jim Brown would get my vote.
Jewell
Footballguy
Jim Brown gets my vote, too. I think he would get the highest percentage of votes.I get the OP's point, though. Peterson looks like he's on pace to be considered among the greats that have ever played the game. Like most here, though, I agree that we have to let it play out.
Native
Footballguy
As of today, hes Bill Sims. Next year, he can move into Wilbert Mongomrey category. In two years, he'll be hanging with George Rogers. After that, Earl Campbell. If hes still playing after that, we should probably bump this thread and revisit the discussion. Otherwise, its waaaay too early,
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Andy Herron
Footballguy
And from that list only Barry Sanders is in the top 5 for career yardage, and only Jim Brown registers in addition to Sanders in the top ten.Not a good barometer. Peterson has light years to go before he enters this conversation.Chase Stuart said:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Of the 11 people on the list, 4 are in the HOF, one more will be soon (LT), one more should be (TD), and three more have had great careers (Edge/Portis/Anderson). Of the other 11 RBs, only two could possibly be labeled as busts, and both Rogers and Sims had injury issues. If half of the comps are HOF guys, that's not a bad barometer of anything.
I thought you weren't a TD guy?Anyway, to add to your point... Sims and Rogers aren't valid comparisons, because the premise of this exercise is to assume Peterson stays healthy his whole career. Eliminate them and you've got 66% HoFers, and two more guys who still have a legit shot at the hall (I don't think James or Portis makes it, but they do have a legitimate shot- 618 yards this year and James is 7th all time, and Portis could easily climb even higher, still). When the worst guy on any list of comparisons is a career 10,000 yard rusher with a first-team AP All Pro, a RoY award, a Comeback PoY award, and a SB MVP, you're doing pretty well for yourself.
Instinctive
Footballguy
So....how can we be having this conversation before we have one about LT2?
Not that Peterson won't be but......LT2 has already shown the resilience and has a great body of work that si continuing still
Not that Peterson won't be but......LT2 has already shown the resilience and has a great body of work that si continuing still
GoldenBear
Footballguy
Sorry to digress, but TD is NOT a Hall of Famer...he had 4 good seasons and was subsequently injured. It's unfortunate, but true.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sayers got in the HoF after essentially a four year career.I don't think TD is Sayers but he had an incredible four year run. Although if we are talking about small bodies of work I would like to see Boselli in the HoF long before TD. Boselli was the most dominant offensive tackle I have seen this side of Munoz and Shell.
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FantasyTrader
Footballguy
A heckuva day to ask the question to be sure. But early returns would have me saying top 5.
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CrossEyed
Footballguy
Walter Payton would get mine.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Adrian Peterson was the most talented high school player I ever watched play. I am positive he could have went pro straight from high school and he was the consensus national player of the year as a HS senior. Then he went on to Oklahoma and put up one of the greatest college seasons in history as a true freshman, breaking the rushing record and finishing second in the Heisman voting. Really only the college freshman seasons of Marshall Faulk and Emmitt Smith can compare. Then ADP goes on to the NFL and breaks the single game rushing record as a rookie. He wins rookie of the year and NFL Pro Bowl MVP. The only other player to achieve that feat as a rookie? Marshall Faulk. He has the talent of a top 5 RB in NFL history, he just needs to have the endurance and longevity of an Emmitt Smith or Payton. That may not happen but I still think he's one of the top 5 greatest RB's I have ever seen and I hope he has a long career.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
I think his career will be brilliant but shorter than the normal amazing back. I'd guess 12-15 range.
X 2
You say 4 good seasons, I say the arguably greatest 4-season stretch of any back in NFL history. Few NFL RBs have accomplished as much in 12 years as Davis did in 4. You win an MVP, two OPoYs, three first-team AP All Pros, a SB MVP, two SB rings, rush for 2000 yards in the equivalent of 14 games, outperform two of the five greatest RBs in NFL history while both were in their prime (Smith and Sanders), and also break nearly every meaningful postseason and SB rushing record while posting two of the five best postseasons by an RB in NFL history and becoming inarguably the greatest postseason rusher ever, and you're a HoFer. That's a HoF resume whether it takes 4 years to compile or 12 years.
az_prof
Footballguy
This is not to bash any of these great players but Peterson is the greatest I have seen play. I didn't see Jim Brown play but I saw OJ (he reminds me of OJ and Dickerson actually) Payton, and all the great ones from the 70s to present. Now whether he can endure and continue to play at this level remains to be seen. But he does it all so well. Power. Speed. Moves. Receiving.
A more interesting question is where does MJD wind up ranking if he stays healthy? Through age 23, the following players have more TDs than MJD's 38: Barry Sanders (47), Randy Moss (43), Emmitt Smith (43). Everyone is ready to talk about Peterson among the all-time greats, but I think, barring injury, MJD is going to rank right up there with him when all is said and done.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
dickerson & bo jackson come to mind for me in terms of comp players (similar constellation of traits & attributes, physical & athletic prototypes, skill set & game)... this is high praise from me, as dickerson is absolutely one of the best i have ever seen (imo, top 5, arguably top 3, with jim brown & sanders), & jackson might have been if had dedicated/devoted himself exclusively to football, and not suffered the carer-ending necrotic hip condition...
its not too early to say that that peterson has the ability & talent to be one of the best ever... in fact, high up the best ever list...
obviously if he gets injured all bets are off... but he has already proven a lot of critics wrong so far in the still admittedly embryonic stages of his pro career...
a couple of peripheral observations... i wouldn't compare him to earl campbell or billy sims... he does sometimes have a violent, collision-friendly running style, but he is far more elusive (& explosive) than campbell... sims penchant for "hurdling" never really caught on among top NFL RBs (
), and has deservedly become about as popular for RBs to emulate as yodeling on cutting edge rap albums...
one reason i like peterson's chances to quickly move up the ranks of the all time greats at his position (not that i am going out on a big limb here) has to do with his intangibles... character, work ethic, off the charts intensity, desire to be great & the will to execute on that hope, etc... everything i have read about him points towards his not being wired to get complacent any time soon... at oklahoma, despite probably being the best collegiate player in the nation the moment he set foot on the gridiron (as faulk probably was his freshman year at SDSU), he was reportedly always the hardest worker on the team (explosive vertical jump reps with heavy dumbbells, etc)...
he is one determined*, relentless dude when he puts his mind to something, has his sights set on being one of the best ever, & has the goods to deliver on the promise...
* he received fluids during the game, but still finished on his last TD run with one of the strongest sequences i've ever seen... he rag dolled a defender out of the way (pol?), & employed one or two other stiff arms, including a rare backwards (behind the back) variant... even in a league populated with many superb athletes (julius peppers 6th man on a good NC hoops team, charles woodson & champ bailey among few two way collegiate athletes in past decade (along with chris gamble), ADP is a freak, a manchild & a positive force of nature...
its not too early to say that that peterson has the ability & talent to be one of the best ever... in fact, high up the best ever list...
obviously if he gets injured all bets are off... but he has already proven a lot of critics wrong so far in the still admittedly embryonic stages of his pro career...
a couple of peripheral observations... i wouldn't compare him to earl campbell or billy sims... he does sometimes have a violent, collision-friendly running style, but he is far more elusive (& explosive) than campbell... sims penchant for "hurdling" never really caught on among top NFL RBs (
), and has deservedly become about as popular for RBs to emulate as yodeling on cutting edge rap albums...one reason i like peterson's chances to quickly move up the ranks of the all time greats at his position (not that i am going out on a big limb here) has to do with his intangibles... character, work ethic, off the charts intensity, desire to be great & the will to execute on that hope, etc... everything i have read about him points towards his not being wired to get complacent any time soon... at oklahoma, despite probably being the best collegiate player in the nation the moment he set foot on the gridiron (as faulk probably was his freshman year at SDSU), he was reportedly always the hardest worker on the team (explosive vertical jump reps with heavy dumbbells, etc)...
he is one determined*, relentless dude when he puts his mind to something, has his sights set on being one of the best ever, & has the goods to deliver on the promise...
* he received fluids during the game, but still finished on his last TD run with one of the strongest sequences i've ever seen... he rag dolled a defender out of the way (pol?), & employed one or two other stiff arms, including a rare backwards (behind the back) variant... even in a league populated with many superb athletes (julius peppers 6th man on a good NC hoops team, charles woodson & champ bailey among few two way collegiate athletes in past decade (along with chris gamble), ADP is a freak, a manchild & a positive force of nature...
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Not even close. When I watch ADP run I don't need stats or historical data to tell me how great he is. It is as simple as an eye test. The only question is long-term health.
I don't need stats or historical data to tell me how great MJD is, either, I was merely supplying them to provide some context. MJD isn't as creative of a runner as ADP, but he's a much better blocker and receiver, and I think he's still one of the top 5 pure runners in the league. As massive and powerful as MJD is, people often forget that he was a sprinter on the track team for UCLA (and Reggie Bush's biggest track competition dating back to his prep days), and that he set the NCAA record for punt return average. He doesn't have Peterson's creativity or balance, but he's got just as much speed, more power, and is a much better goal line and short yardage back and a much more consistent runner. And, as I said, he's a bigger threat as a receiver. I think by the time he hangs up his cleats his name will easily make the list of the all-time greats.
A much better short yardage runner? MJD has more power than ADP? Based on what? ADP doesn't and hasn't had any problem cathing the ball, his offense doesn't call for him to do that and they like to use Chester on 3rd to help keep him fresh. the bottom line is it's all opinions so nothing really to argue about. I will take ADP every day of the week and twice on Sunday's over MJD and it isn't even close. That's just my .02
Nice video, he did look like a beast.My biggest question is how do you rank the "best rb of all time", yards, tuchdowns, superbowls??
My next question is how would the running backs of the past preform in the NFL today? I think defensive players are bigger, quicker, stronger, and smarter now. Are they the best of their time, or all time??
I am only 23, so my input shouldn't really count as most of the guys you all speak of I have never seen, but in my opinion their are few guys that I think could play back in the day, today, and in the future as well as they preformed during their actuall NFL career. I think Barry Sanders is #1 on that list, and I think a full pretty healthy career from AP gets him on top of my list.
I would allmost bet though, that my kids or grandkids will say the same about AP that I say about Earl Campbell, Waltor Payton, and Jim Brown, because I think you fall for a RB by watching them every sunday, and the ones you never got to see play dont have the same effect.
encaitar
Footballguy
I disagree with you on your comparison of the two. Watching them run, it's pretty clear to me that Peterson runs with a lot more power than MJD. Yes, MJD is a better receiver and is just as fast as Peterson, but Peterson's vision for the hole and his ability to accelerate through the cut is unlike anything I've ever seen. Most backs lose speed when they make a cutback and then have to accelerate again, while ADP seems to gain speed while cutting back. It's uncanny.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
I didn't read the whole thing to know what the breakdown was, but I think he fits the EYRB mold better (big play power back). Barry didn't move piles like Peterson does. While Adrian has moves, its nothing like what Sanders has. I can't believe with all the different categories you have, you think these two fit in the same.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
All I know is that I haven't had a man-crush this bad since Bo Jackson. 
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
I feel like ADP is difficult to evaluate even in terms of modern day RB's. Over the last decade or so, the gold standard for RB's has been to produce 2000+ yfs and 20+ tds. Peterson is kind of a throwback to an era when RB's were used differently. He does the old style ground and pound VERY well. But will his eventual resume stack up against guys like Faulk, Holmes, and Tomlinson, who for a while there were going off for 2300/25 type seasons? Does he even have the potential to make it so?
I rate him as easily the best old school back the NFL has seen in a while, and the similarities to a young Dickerson when I watch them continue to stun me (even the fumbles!). I just have questions about how valuable an old school RB really is in the new school NFL.
I'll actually be rooting for Minnesota this year. I'd LOVE to see ground-n-pound and a vertical passing game become the NFL's new vogue. But my gut tells me most teams would be better off with a Tomlinson/Faulk type who can be both ADP and Percy Harvin when the situation calls for it.
I rate him as easily the best old school back the NFL has seen in a while, and the similarities to a young Dickerson when I watch them continue to stun me (even the fumbles!). I just have questions about how valuable an old school RB really is in the new school NFL.
I'll actually be rooting for Minnesota this year. I'd LOVE to see ground-n-pound and a vertical passing game become the NFL's new vogue. But my gut tells me most teams would be better off with a Tomlinson/Faulk type who can be both ADP and Percy Harvin when the situation calls for it.
corpcow
Footballguy
Priest Holmes? Really? He really only had 3 "good" years... albeit pretty damn good ones especially with the TDs... but still...
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Billy Sims and Earl Campbell were amazing backs. Neither had really long careers, but if I had to pick guys just for one year, those two would be at the top of my list. Of course a box of rocks had more brains than Sims. Barry Sanders was the funnest back to watch in the history of the NFL. But he wasn't the best short yardage back. For running instincts and moves, best ever.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
I think the point is that for the time being, even that fairly modest body of work is well ahead of ADP's career or single-season achievements. I certainly couldn't rationalize placing Peterson's career ahead of Holmes' yet by any metric. Could you?
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
MOST POWERFUL, easily. What a jewel he was.
Yes. ADP is much further along than Priest Holmes was at this point in his career. It is still early, but ADP should surpass Holmes best season this year.
