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If anyone deserves the label (1 Viewer)

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
I can't believe how Marvin Harrison never gets any blame for his playoff failures.

In the six Colts losses since Harrison became Harrison (I'll eliminate what he did his rookie year, although it wasn't much different), here are his numbers:

25 catches -- 290 yards -- 0 TDs

In six playoff losses, Harrison is averaging 4 catches, 48 yards and 0 TDs per game. Those numbers more reflect Jerald Sowell than one of the greatest WRs of all time.

Steve Smith in two playoff games this year: 22 catches, 302 yards, 3 TDs

Even in the playoff wins Harrison only had one dominant game.

Career post-season per game numbers: 4.5 receptions, 64.2 yards, 0.2 TDs

Career reg-season per game numbers: 6.0 receptions, 80.1 yards, 0.7 TDs

Harrison has more games of under 50 yards (3) than over 75 yards (2). To not reach the end zone in 9 of 10 post-season games is mind-boggling.

So how come Harrison avoids all the post-season critics? Certainly I'm not pinning Ws and Ls on the WR, but his poor play (win or lose, and mostly lose) speaks for itself.

 

duke21

Footballguy
If anyone deserves it, it's Vanderjagt. He also blew it a couple years ago in Miami in OT. The guy is NOT clutch.

 

rockbottom895

Footballguy
All of these numbers arent Marvins fault. Against the Broncos for the past two years, Champ has shut him down, beacuse he is the best cover corner in the league. Early in his career, I can understand, but Manning just cant get him the ball. They always have doulbe coverage on him no matter what.

 

Gargoylez

Footballguy
Marvin is a one of the best receiving WR... but he is one of the biggest p*ss*es on the field, falling down and running out of bounds whenever he can.Take it from Hines Ward eh? Run until the opposition tackles you, don't lay down like a little bizatch.

 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
If Marvin's choking, it's only cause the Manning curse is rubbing off on him. Jake Plummer would have won that game yesterday!!!! :excited:

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
I can't believe how Marvin Harrison never gets any blame for his playoff failures.
When you get to the playoffs, playoff teams are usually really good about taking away your #1 weapon. And the Steve Smith example is a good one, but I have seen a wide receiver single handedly carry a wild card team to the NFC Championship Game before, and I think the other guy might have put up bigger numbers in the first two games as well.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other

 

malaka

Footballguy
I am not going to point fingers at Manning,Vandy or Harrison on this year's loss.There is a lesson to be learned here, you can't rest your players like they did when your offense is built around timing. This is the second time I can recall, teams did this, play a part of a game week 16, rest 17 have a bye week, go into the playoffs at home and lose. Denver did the same thing in 96/97 and lost to the Jaqs. Philly might be the exception, but part of the reason, they rested didn't they have injuries to deal with?

 

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.

 
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SSOG

Moderator
Champ has shut him down, beacuse he is the best cover corner in the league.
I'm one of the biggest Denver supporters you'll find on these boards...And no, he's not.
He may not be the #1 cover corner every single year, but he's the only guy that makes the top-5 every single year. Seriously, remember two years ago when Bailey, Chris McCallister, and Charles Woodson were the best 3 CBs? And then last year, when it was Bailey, Smoot, and Lito Sheppard? And then this year you've got to give it to Bailey, Al Harris, and... I dunno, probably Terrence Newman.He may get burned more than other guys, but he also faces elite receivers more often, and gets less help. Give any other CB in the NFL the assignments that the Broncos give him, and I think they get burned just as much, if not more.

That said, a cover corner ain't what it used to be, with the new rule emphasis.

 

Jason Wood

Zoo York
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Chase, you're smarter than this. What was his FP per TARGET, that's the measure of whether he performed below the norm. Did he drop more passes in the postseason? Did he make fewer catches per target? Without those numbers, this could all be explained by pressure on Manning and/or Manning's lower performance.To be clear, I'm not saying you aren't right here. But the stats you're throwing out to support your claim prove nothing in and of themselves.

 

Wadsworth

Footballguy
If we are looking for secondary targets to take the heat off Manning, how about Polian? What are his career numbers in big games? :boxing:

 
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bagger.

The One Play Quiz
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
'offs?
 

bagger.

The One Play Quiz
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Chase, you're smarter than this. What was his FP per TARGET, that's the measure of whether he performed below the norm. Did he drop more passes in the postseason? Did he make fewer catches per target? Without those numbers, this could all be explained by pressure on Manning and/or Manning's lower performance.To be clear, I'm not saying you aren't right here. But the stats you're throwing out to support your claim prove nothing in and of themselves.
:goodposting: GB Wood setting Chase straight here and saving me the time.

:thumbup:

 

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Chase, you're smarter than this. What was his FP per TARGET, that's the measure of whether he performed below the norm. Did he drop more passes in the postseason? Did he make fewer catches per target? Without those numbers, this could all be explained by pressure on Manning and/or Manning's lower performance.To be clear, I'm not saying you aren't right here. But the stats you're throwing out to support your claim prove nothing in and of themselves.
We're not going to be able to find a ton of old post-season target data. Let's say next year Harrison's numbers are 72/1027/3 -- aren't you going to say "wow, Harrison's really dropped off?" Are you going to need to look at his target data for that? Or how many drops?It often seems as if he disappears in the post-season, so maybe his FP/target wouldn't be much different since he gets fewer targets. Harrison set a record with 143 receptions in 2002: and he caught 4 receptions in the playoff game against the Jets. The talk all week of course, was how are the Jets going to contain Harrison? He was a total nonfactor in the game.

He's got 15 catches for 165 yards and 0 TDs the last four playoff games. (Of course, he was probably mugged in at least two of them ;) ).

I recognize that more data would be nice, but isn't it at least surprising how silent he's been?

And there are no excuses about team's shutting down WR1s in the playoffs. Moss, Owens, Holt, Rice, Carter, Bruce and Steve Smith have all had playoff success. Harrison has been uncharacteristically silent. He's got one great game out of 10; at least Manning has three great games out of 10.

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Chase, you're smarter than this. What was his FP per TARGET, that's the measure of whether he performed below the norm. Did he drop more passes in the postseason? Did he make fewer catches per target? Without those numbers, this could all be explained by pressure on Manning and/or Manning's lower performance.To be clear, I'm not saying you aren't right here. But the stats you're throwing out to support your claim prove nothing in and of themselves.
Targets aren't foolproof either. If Harrison never gets open, the ball will be thrown to him less.
 

SSOG

Moderator
Targets aren't foolproof either. If Harrison never gets open, the ball will be thrown to him less.
Beaten to it. If Harrison is getting targeted noticeably more in the regular season than in the postseason, then it's entirely possible that he's just beating his man noticeably more in the regular season than in the postseason. Manning, especially, is known for finding the guy who gets open, so if Harrison isn't getting the ball thrown to him, he's probably not getting open as well as his teammates.
 

cosmonaut

Footballguy
If we are looking for secondary targets to take the heat off Manning, how about Polian? What are his career numbers in big games? :boxing:
Easy. Polian has always had protection problems to deal with.
 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
so, all of the following people associated with the current Colts team are chokers:Peyton ManningTony DungyMarvin HarrisonMike VanderjagtBill Poliananyone getting left off here?

 

KevT

Footballguy
so, all of the following people associated with the current Colts team are chokers:

Peyton Manning

Tony Dungy

Marvin Harrison

Mike Vanderjagt

Bill Polian

anyone getting left off here?
The entire offensive line.
 

ren hoek

Footballguy
Champ has shut him down, beacuse he is the best cover corner in the league.
I'm one of the biggest Denver supporters you'll find on these boards...And no, he's not.
He may not be the #1 cover corner every single year, but he's the only guy that makes the top-5 every single year. Seriously, remember two years ago when Bailey, Chris McCallister, and Charles Woodson were the best 3 CBs? And then last year, when it was Bailey, Smoot, and Lito Sheppard? And then this year you've got to give it to Bailey, Al Harris, and... I dunno, probably Terrence Newman.
Honestly, I'd have no problems at all ranking Ty Law (when healthy), Chris McAlister, Champ Bailey, and probably Charles Woodson consistently in the top 5 for the last 2-4 years. I'd also say that Ty Law, during his prime, has absolutely been the most dominant cornerback of the whole group. He and Marvin Harrison each had 3 receptions a piece the last time they faced off in the play-offs. So I disagree that Bailey's the only one to consistently rate amongst the best CBs.
 

SSOG

Moderator
Honestly, I'd have no problems at all ranking Ty Law (when healthy), Chris McAlister, Champ Bailey, and probably Charles Woodson consistently in the top 5 for the last 2-4 years. I'd also say that Ty Law, during his prime, has absolutely been the most dominant cornerback of the whole group. He and Marvin Harrison each had 3 receptions a piece the last time they faced off in the play-offs. So I disagree that Bailey's the only one to consistently rate amongst the best CBs.
Charles Woodson is drastically overrated. There's a reason no one wants to trade for him. Chris McAllister put up one of the most dominant stretches I've seen from a CB for most of 2003, but since then has been rather ordinary. I'll agree that Ty Law was, during his prime, consistantly a top-5 CB. In fact, I'll say that Ty Law during his prime was as good as Champ Bailey is right now. It helps that his prime was before the rules emphasis. That said, no way is Law still top-5 today. Two years ago, yes. Last year, no. Today, no.
 

pizzatyme

Footballguy
so, all of the following people associated with the current Colts team are chokers:

Peyton Manning

Tony Dungy

Marvin Harrison

Mike Vanderjagt

Bill Polian

anyone getting left off here?
Yes, Pizzatyme, DJ Colts, Brobe 4, Johnny U, etc...lolWe're all chokers.

 

Iron_Far

Footballguy
Honestly, I'd have no problems at all ranking Ty Law (when healthy), Chris McAlister, Champ Bailey, and probably Charles Woodson consistently in the top 5 for the last 2-4 years. I'd also say that Ty Law, during his prime, has absolutely been the most dominant cornerback of the whole group. He and Marvin Harrison each had 3 receptions a piece the last time they faced off in the play-offs. So I disagree that Bailey's the only one to consistently rate amongst the best CBs.
Charles Woodson is drastically overrated. There's a reason no one wants to trade for him. Chris McAllister put up one of the most dominant stretches I've seen from a CB for most of 2003, but since then has been rather ordinary. I'll agree that Ty Law was, during his prime, consistantly a top-5 CB. In fact, I'll say that Ty Law during his prime was as good as Champ Bailey is right now. It helps that his prime was before the rules emphasis. That said, no way is Law still top-5 today. Two years ago, yes. Last year, no. Today, no.
You mean PRO BOWLER Ty Law? :confused: ...And do spare me the rhetoric about pro bowlers getting voted in on their "names"... :bye:

 

SSOG

Moderator
Honestly, I'd have no problems at all ranking Ty Law (when healthy), Chris McAlister, Champ Bailey, and probably Charles Woodson consistently in the top 5 for the last 2-4 years. I'd also say that Ty Law, during his prime, has absolutely been the most dominant cornerback of the whole group. He and Marvin Harrison each had 3 receptions a piece the last time they faced off in the play-offs. So I disagree that Bailey's the only one to consistently rate amongst the best CBs.
Charles Woodson is drastically overrated. There's a reason no one wants to trade for him. Chris McAllister put up one of the most dominant stretches I've seen from a CB for most of 2003, but since then has been rather ordinary. I'll agree that Ty Law was, during his prime, consistantly a top-5 CB. In fact, I'll say that Ty Law during his prime was as good as Champ Bailey is right now. It helps that his prime was before the rules emphasis. That said, no way is Law still top-5 today. Two years ago, yes. Last year, no. Today, no.
You mean PRO BOWLER Ty Law? :confused: ...And do spare me the rhetoric about pro bowlers getting voted in on their "names"... :bye:
Umm... but pro bowlers DO get voted in on their "names". There are lots of examples. I mean, if you think Pro Bowlers are voted based on merit and not name recognition, explain to me PLEASE why Larry Allen is a starting NFC guard in this year's pro bowl. Even worse, pro bowlers get voted in based off of stats, which is fine for skill positions, but stats for defensive players are horribly misleading. Both Ty Law and Deltha O'Neil were drastically overrated in this season's pro bowl balloting because all voters see are the interception totals, and not the yards-per-attempt allowed or the completion percentage allowed, or even the quality of the receiver that each CB was matched up against. I know for a fact that NYJ didn't match Law up against the other team's best receiver, but rather left him on one side of the field for the entire game.

I'm not saying that Ty Law is bad. I'm simply saying that he's not one of the five best CBs in the NFL.

 

Traders2001

Footballguy
Manning has to be the biggest loser of all time.The guy is the best qb in history when the games are meaningless.But when it counts he chokes ( easy he has zero character , he is always on the verge of crying when it doesnt go his way )

 

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
so, all of the following people associated with the current Colts team are chokers:

Peyton Manning

Tony Dungy

Marvin Harrison

Mike Vanderjagt

Bill Polian

anyone getting left off here?
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious, but if you're being serious -- yes, Edge hasn't exactly been stellar either.If you're sarcastic, I'd still maintain that none have been as weak as Harrison. :P

 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
People keep saying Harrison's poor playoff performances are a product of Peyton's. To be fair though, Peyton did complete 22 passes for 290 yards and a TD this past weekend, and Harrison only had 3 of those catches and 52 of those yards..

 

Warsteinner

Footballguy
If anyone deserves it, it's Vanderjagt. He also blew it a couple years ago in Miami in OT. The guy is NOT clutch.
I think this is accurate, but when was the last time Vandy completed 3 passes to Ty Law in a single game?
 

The Juggernaut

The Man. The Myth
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Shouldn't a drop like this be expected to some degree? His season numbers are compiled against all comers. While the post season numbers come against the top 25% of teams in the league. Teams that usually have very good d's. I would expect that if you broke down his season numbers and looked at how he did against teams with winning records, you would see they are similar to his post season numbers..........I'd do it, but, you know, I'm dumb or something.
 

Warpig

Footballguy
If anyone deserves it, it's Vanderjagt. He also blew it a couple years ago in Miami in OT. The guy is NOT clutch.
But he most certainly IS a "Baller". Did you see the size of that bling in his ear?! Home boy is representin'! :bag:

 

Chase Stuart

Footballguy
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Shouldn't a drop like this be expected to some degree? His season numbers are compiled against all comers. While the post season numbers come against the top 25% of teams in the league. Teams that usually have very good d's. I would expect that if you broke down his season numbers and looked at how he did against teams with winning records, you would see they are similar to his post season numbers..........I'd do it, but, you know, I'm dumb or something.
The post-season hasn't hurt any other stud WR.
 

Wilbur Wood

Footballguy
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Chase, you're smarter than this. What was his FP per TARGET, that's the measure of whether he performed below the norm. Did he drop more passes in the postseason? Did he make fewer catches per target? Without those numbers, this could all be explained by pressure on Manning and/or Manning's lower performance.To be clear, I'm not saying you aren't right here. But the stats you're throwing out to support your claim prove nothing in and of themselves.
In lieu of looking at "targets" which could be influenced by the WR's own ability to get open, I would be interested in looking at Reggie Wayne's comparative post-season body of work vs Harrison's. IMO, Wayne has been as big a weapon/threat as Harrison over the last couple of years and I don't have the data handy but my recollection is that Wayne's production has not dropped off.
 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
Unless we have evidence to show Marvin's catches and YPC per TARGET are demonstrably lower in the 'offs, this argument doesn't hold much weight one way or the other
Here are Harrison's career numbers per 16 games played:96.3/1281/11.4

Here are Harrison's career post-season numbers per 16 games played:

72/1027/3.2

He's gone from averaging 18.3 career FP/G tp 12.1 career FP/G.

Barry Sanders (rightly) gets ripped for some bad post-season performances. For a guy who ranks 3rd all time in receiving TDs and should end his career 2nd all time in receiving yards, he's had an unbelievably pedestrian post-season career -- in 9 of 10 games he's failed to get a TD or 100 yards.

I'm not saying he's a choker or a bad player; I'm merely pointing out that I'm surprised his annual post-season dud doesn't get him more criticism.
Shouldn't a drop like this be expected to some degree? His season numbers are compiled against all comers. While the post season numbers come against the top 25% of teams in the league. Teams that usually have very good d's. I would expect that if you broke down his season numbers and looked at how he did against teams with winning records, you would see they are similar to his post season numbers..........I'd do it, but, you know, I'm dumb or something.
The post-season hasn't hurt any other stud WR.
just wondering, but how good were the #2 (and #3, #4, etc.) targets on those teams? In recent years anyway, Wayne was practically a second #1 WR for Indy. Teams like Carolina this year and Philly last year really didn't have any legitimate WR threats besides Steve Smith and Terrell Owens to throw to so I'm sure they got a lot more targets than Harrison does.BTW, I'm not even interested in defending Harrison as I agree he can be a bit soft and doesn't always show up in the postseason.

 

Pat Patriot

Footballguy
I dont like Peyton Manning at all but I mentioned in another thread that his playoff failures have a tendency to mask the softness of the rest of his team/organization.

Dungy SOFT

Manning SOFT

Harrison SOFT

Freeney SOFT (many disagreed with me here but I have seen him disapear in too many games

Cato June Didnt do much in the Pitt game but not enough of a body of work to form an opinion.

Sanders and Doss bring some toughness to the team but there are not enough guys like them.

The Patriots always set out to smack Harrison in the mouth to immediately take him out of the game. I dont know if the Steelers did the same but it sure seemed like it.

 

Warpig

Footballguy
I dont like Peyton Manning at all but I mentioned in another thread that his playoff failures have a tendency to mask the softness of the rest of his team/organization.

Dungy SOFT

Manning SOFT

Harrison SOFT

Freeney SOFT (many disagreed with me here but I have seen him disapear in too many games

Cato June Didnt do much in the Pitt game but not enough of a body of work to form an opinion.

Sanders and Doss bring some toughness to the team but there are not enough guys like them.

The Patriots always set out to smack Harrison in the mouth to immediately take him out of the game. I dont know if the Steelers did the same but it sure seemed like it.
Harrison and Freeney SOFT I agree with. But Dungy? Was he soft when he built that monstrous defense in Tampa? And was he soft when he used Alstott and Dunn as a 1-2 punch to soften up opposing defenses? That guy was black and blue football all the way. Now he is with a team that has more finesse/offensive weapons and he's soft? I think he's just playing to the strength of his team. But I wouldn't say Dungy is soft. I woudn't classify Manning as soft yet either...he's just not used to being hit so many times. I think this defeat will burn in his belly and he'll be piss and vinegar next year. I'd say that entire O-line of the Colts was soft in that game. The RB's weren't picking up any of the blitzes either.
 

Aaron Rudnicki

Keep Walking™
Staff member
I dont like Peyton Manning at all but I mentioned in another thread that his playoff failures have a tendency to mask the softness of the rest of his team/organization.

Dungy      SOFT

Manning        SOFT

Harrison    SOFT

Freeney  SOFT (many disagreed with me here but I have seen him disapear in too many games

Cato June      Didnt do much in the Pitt game but not enough of a body of work to form an opinion.

Sanders and Doss bring some toughness to the team but there are not enough guys like them.

The Patriots always set out to smack Harrison in the mouth to immediately take him out of the game.  I dont know if the Steelers did the same but it sure seemed like it.
Harrison and Freeney SOFT I agree with. But Dungy? Was he soft when he built that monstrous defense in Tampa? And was he soft when he used Alstott and Dunn as a 1-2 punch to soften up opposing defenses? That guy was black and blue football all the way. Now he is with a team that has more finesse/offensive weapons and he's soft? I think he's just playing to the strength of his team. But I wouldn't say Dungy is soft. I woudn't classify Manning as soft yet either...he's just not used to being hit so many times. I think this defeat will burn in his belly and he'll be piss and vinegar next year. I'd say that entire O-line of the Colts was soft in that game. The RB's weren't picking up any of the blitzes either.
Dungy sending out the punt team on a 4th and 2 with his team trailing by 18 at the end of the 3rd quarter is soft/passive coaching. He coaches scared and overly conservative at times, just like Schottenheimer, and that likely has contributed to some of his playoff failures.
 

Steelers4Life

Footballguy
I just think it's amusing that Tennessee won the National Championship the year after Peyton Manning graduated, and John Gruden took Tony Dungy's players and won the Super Bowl the year after replacing Dungy in Tampa Bay.

 

Pat Patriot

Footballguy
Dungy is SOFT in his game management. He is passive and unemotional. He cant make a decision. He sends the Punt team out there and Peyton waves them off. Dont give me the crap about Dungy saying he was going to go for it. Any coach in that situation that sends the punt team out, has NO stones. It is not his teams style of play that I call him SOFT but in his game management.He inspires his team because of the person he is and how he handles himself with class through tragedy. However, the doesnt put any FEAR into his team. FEAR of losing.DitkaCowherParcellsBelichickeven Shanahan to a degreeFEAR is a great motivator.

 

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