If I were the Houston GM... (1 Viewer)

[Evilgrin 72]

I would trade the pick. I know this has been discussed, but I can't believe the Texans are even considering Bush or Young. They have a QB and an RB there already that could likely do nice things if given the opportunity to play behind a halfway decent offensive line. If I were the Texans, I would broker a deal with the Jets. the Jets have the pick where Ferguson slots in, and they need a replacement RB to Martin and a ticket-selling gate attraction in the worst way. They would clearly move up to grab Bush.If I'm Houston, I tell the Jets to package their early second round pick with another, or future draft pick, to move up in to the middle-end of round 1. I then trade the rights to Bush to New York for the #4 pick, the acquired first-rounder, and John Abraham. The Jets would likely not be able to re-sign Abraham and sign Bush to a megabucks contract, so they'd be looking to move Abraham anyway. This gives Houston a legitimate pass-rushing threat (no Houston DL had more than 4 sacks last year) and 3 of the top 33 picks. Imagine being able to draft, for example, D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Marcus McNeill, and Max-Jean Gilles? Or Ferguson, Gilles, and Whitworth, for that matter?They could completely revamp the offensive line and give the guys they've already got locked up long-term (Carr, Davis) a chance to succeed behind an NFL-caliber line. In a few years, they could have the best OL in all of football. In addition, they would dramatically upgrade the defense. Wouldn't this make a lot more sense than drafting a second RB with a similar skill set to the one they already have? Wouldn't it make more sense than trading away their franchise QB for another Rb with a history of drug problems and drafting a raw, unorthodox QB whose game may or may not translate to the pros?It may not be the "sexy" move, but it would go ten times farther in terms of curing their ills. Taking another route will doom the franchise to mediocrity or worse for at least the next 5 years or so.What do you think?

 

[msommer]

I think that you are smarter than Charley Casserly

 

[The (Grid)Iron Giant]

I feel you, man. As a Houston fan, the across-the-board failures are very disappointing. But the real question is, how much of this is a personnel issue and how much is a coaching issue? The Texans' line does a decent job run-blocking and they have the numbers to back it up. They suck the nut at pass protection, but don't you think Kubiak will bring in the right o-line guy with a Denver pedigree to clean some of that up? Teams like the Pats and Broncos get by with unheralded guys up front and i suspect the Texans could do the same. Chester Pitts actually did an okay job down the stretch last year at LT. He's remarkably durable, too. The Texans have only one game-breaker in Andre Johnson, and I could see them taking Bush or Young to try and secure truly elite talent at a skill spot. Most successful teams have proven you can fill the other positions with lesser talents and make up for it with quality scouting and coaching. Would I trade the pick for an offer like you suggest? Maybe. But I could see them keeping it and getting the kind of guy you almost never find outside the top 10 of a draft.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Texans fans have a lot in common with Timberwolves fans.And please, see my sig.Edit: Please don't take that as a personal shot. It's intended more for general comedy. Thanks.

 

[B Maverick]

Dom Davis = Fred TaylorI say skip the Young talk, go for Bush or a trade down. Oline, DLine needs help.However, to say they dont need a RB is missing the fact that Davis is oftne hurt. Excellent when on the field but how many games does he miss a year?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I've actually changed my mind on this. With the depth at O-Line available in the draft I think it makes sense to add skill with the top pick.They own the first pick in the 2nd round and the first TWO picks in the third. Typically, and especially this year, very good o-linemen can be had at these spots.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I feel you, man. As a Houston fan, the across-the-board failures are very disappointing. But the real question is, how much of this is a personnel issue and how much is a coaching issue?

The Texans' line does a decent job run-blocking and they have the numbers to back it up. They suck the nut at pass protection, but don't you think Kubiak will bring in the right o-line guy with a Denver pedigree to clean some of that up? Teams like the Pats and Broncos get by with unheralded guys up front and i suspect the Texans could do the same.

Chester Pitts actually did an okay job down the stretch last year at LT. He's remarkably durable, too. The Texans have only one game-breaker in Andre Johnson, and I could see them taking Bush or Young to try and secure truly elite talent at a skill spot. Most successful teams have proven you can fill the other positions with lesser talents and make up for it with quality scouting and coaching.

Would I trade the pick for an offer like you suggest? Maybe. But I could see them keeping it and getting the kind of guy you almost never find outside the top 10 of a draft.

I would agree with this a lot more if I felt there was a player in the top 10 worth taking for Houston. If Larry Fitzgerald were in this draft, I could see them taking him to play opposite Johnson. That would be a lethal combo. Bush is truly an electrifying talent, but I am a Domanick Davis fan. Maybe I don't see what you Texans fans see, as I rarely see Houston play, but if they signed him recently to a long-term deal, they must like him somewhat.If you've got a coupld guys on the OL that you like, why not make the deal I referenced, then trade the #4 pick for two mid-first rounders? Then you could get Gilles and Whitworth to anchor the right side of your line for a decade to accompany Pitts, and ALSO get the likes of maybe Santonio Holmes and Chad Jackson. That would give you a revamped line AND 3 top-rated receivers... and a lot of promise going forward.

I just see so much they could do with this pick. They have so many needs that an accumulation of picks just makes so much more sense to me than taking one guy and hoping to hit a home run.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Texans fans have a lot in common with Timberwolves fans.

And please, see my sig.

Edit: Please don't take that as a personal shot. It's intended more for general comedy. Thanks.

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, but I don't recall seeing anyone articulate exactly what trade they'd make, or what players they'd take with those picks. I may have just missed that, but this scenario I laid out is (I hope) specific and unique for the sake of discussion.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I've actually changed my mind on this. With the depth at O-Line available in the draft I think it makes sense to add skill with the top pick.

They own the first pick in the 2nd round and the first TWO picks in the third. Typically, and especially this year, very good o-linemen can be had at these spots.

With the first pick of the second round, yes, but they won't get elite talent with the 3rd round picks. All the top-notch OL will be gone by round 2, and they'll be taking shots. Could they potentially get good players at those spots? Sure. Will they get 3 guys who carry first-round grades, which is possible to do under my trade scenario with the depth at OL available in this draft? No.They gave up 68 sacks last year. That isn't just brutal, that's heinous. They can draft all the skill guys they want, but with a line ike that, how do they expect to succeed? How can they even know how good David Carr can be? What I've seen of the guy, he has talent - why give up ona guy you drafted #1 overall without even giving him a legitimate chance to show what he can do?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Texans fans have a lot in common with Timberwolves fans.

And please, see my sig.

Edit: Please don't take that as a personal shot.  It's intended more for general comedy.  Thanks.

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, but I don't recall seeing anyone articulate exactly what trade they'd make, or what players they'd take with those picks. I may have just missed that, but this scenario I laid out is (I hope) specific and unique for the sake of discussion.

So much depends on what they could actually get for that pick. I think it COULD make sense for them to move out of that spot, if they compensation was right.But I don't think it's as cut and dried as I once did. I further believe they could really improve by staying where they're at.

As far as having Bush AND Davis in the same backfield, or at least on the same roster, I think that puts the Texans at an ADVANTAGE. Neither is going to be a full time back in the mold of say a Tomlinson or Alexander. But put together, they could be lethal - especially over the course of an entire NFL season.

What if they address the o-line in free agency? There are a few good free agents available there. What their interest is in playing for Houston is another matter.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

They gave up 68 sacks last year. That isn't just brutal, that's heinous. They can draft all the skill guys they want, but with a line ike that, how do they expect to succeed? How can they even know how good David Carr can be? What I've seen of the guy, he has talent - why give up ona guy you drafted #1 overall without even giving him a legitimate chance to show what he can do?

I don't think drafting a QB makes any sense for the Texans.

 

[Wreckincrew]

If I were the Houston GM......I wouldn't be wasting my time discussing what to do with the rest of us yahoos on here!(I would be concentrating on the most important part of my job, cheerleader inspections!)

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Texans fans have a lot in common with Timberwolves fans.

And please, see my sig.

Edit: Please don't take that as a personal shot.  It's intended more for general comedy.  Thanks.

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, but I don't recall seeing anyone articulate exactly what trade they'd make, or what players they'd take with those picks. I may have just missed that, but this scenario I laid out is (I hope) specific and unique for the sake of discussion.

So much depends on what they could actually get for that pick. I think it COULD make sense for them to move out of that spot, if they compensation was right.But I don't think it's as cut and dried as I once did. I further believe they could really improve by staying where they're at.

As far as having Bush AND Davis in the same backfield, or at least on the same roster, I think that puts the Texans at an ADVANTAGE. Neither is going to be a full time back in the mold of say a Tomlinson or Alexander. But put together, they could be lethal - especially over the course of an entire NFL season.

What if they address the o-line in free agency? There are a few good free agents available there. What their interest is in playing for Houston is another matter.

IF they can adequately (REALLY adequately, not just what Texans management thinks is adequate) address the line in free agency, I'd take Bush. If I were a Texans fan, though, I would be dancing if rather than Bush, I saw three first-round graded O-lineman and John Abraham coming to town.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

They gave up 68 sacks last year.  That isn't just brutal, that's heinous.  They can draft all the skill guys they want, but with a line ike that, how do they expect to succeed?  How can they even know how good David Carr can be?  What I've seen of the guy, he has talent - why give up ona  guy you drafted #1 overall without even giving him a legitimate chance to show what he can do?

I don't think drafting a QB makes any sense for the Texans.

I agree, but once all is said and done, they might. I've seen a lot of rumors of Carr going to Miami for R. Williams and a 2nd round pick. This would allow for the choosing of Vince Young. This course of action would be disastrous, IMO.

 

[Bloom]

I feel you, man.  As a Houston fan, the across-the-board failures are very disappointing.  But the real question is, how much of this is a personnel issue and how much is a coaching issue? 

The Texans' line does a decent job run-blocking and they have the numbers to back it up.  They suck the nut at pass protection, but don't you think Kubiak will bring in the right o-line guy with a Denver pedigree to clean some of that up?  Teams like the Pats and Broncos get by with unheralded guys up front and i suspect the Texans could do the same. 

Chester Pitts actually did an okay job down the stretch last year at LT.  He's remarkably durable, too.  The Texans have only one game-breaker in Andre Johnson, and I could see them taking Bush or Young to try and secure truly elite talent at a skill spot.  Most successful teams have proven you can fill the other positions with lesser talents and make up for it with quality scouting and coaching. 

Would I trade the pick for an offer like you suggest?  Maybe.  But I could see them keeping it and getting the kind of guy you almost never find outside the top 10 of a draft.

At one point, it looked like there could be multiple franchise OTs in this draft. Now there are lingering questions about Brick's effectiveness after bulking up, McNeill and Winston's health, and Scott's mean streak. Justice could be the best of the bunch, but he has only played RT.

I agree completely about Pitts, and remember he's been up against some pretty solid DEs, including Dwight Freeney. So that leaves the Texans needing a RT. A guy like Whitworth should almost definitely be there at 33, and if he somehow goes before that, a guy like Daryn Colledge should be there. they can address the internal line in later rounds.

Kubiak is going to be 10X more inventive than the last OC. He is going to use Carr (if kept), Andre, Mathis to their fullest. Giving Kubiak a fresh start to design an O around what he has, and adding an elite talent like Bush would be tremendous for the franchise. As much as Carr as hit the turf in his career, ive probably been too hard on him - the offense they were running in houston was downright ugly. He could do better if an OC just used his mobility more and didnt leave him hanging out on to dry on so many obvious passing downs by throwing more on first and second down. Carr kinda reminded me of a poor man's Plummer (talent-wise) and look at what Kubiak did with Plummer.

I don't think this is a cut and dry as people make it out to be - DD+Bush could be undefensible if used correctly. Imagine how lethal Westbrook could be if the Eagles had another RB that was a credible runner b/w the tackles. when you bring dual back sets out and then put reggie in motion to the outside, what do you do? Lbs cant cover him, and arguably safeties cant cover him. You have to either dilute what you have in the box or Bush will kill you in the passing game. You cant put your #1 CB on him (andre), and you have to put your speediest CB on Mathis, and maybe even have the deep safety keep an eye on him so that he doesnt get behind the D. that leaves bush with a mismatch any time he's split out wide, with DD still back there to gash defenses that pay too much attention to Andre, Bush and Mathis. Play action in this offense could be lethal!

I say take bush, take the best OT at 33 and dont look back.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

IF they can adequately (REALLY adequately, not just what Texans management thinks is adequate) address the line in free agency, I'd take Bush. If I were a Texans fan, though, I would be dancing if rather than Bush, I saw three first-round graded O-lineman and John Abraham coming to town.

Here's a list of o-line free agents:Tackle

Adam Haayer UFA CardinalsAnthony Clement UFA 49ersBarrett Brooks UFA SteelersBarry Stokes UFA FalconsBob Whitfield UFA GiantsChad Slaughter UFA RaidersCourtney Van Buren RFAEphraim Salaam UFA JaguarsEthan Brooks UFA CowboysJeff Backus UFA LionsJohn St. Clair UFAJon Runyan UFA EaglesJordan Black RFA ChiefsKevin Barry UFA PackersKevin Shaffer UFA FalconsL.J. Shelton UFA BrownsMakoa Freitas RFA ColtsMatt Hill UFA PanthersMike Pearson UFA JaguarsRex Tucker UFA RamsScott Gragg UFA JetsSeth Wand RFA TexansStocker McDougle UFA DolphinsTodd Fordham UFA PanthersTodd Steussie UFA BuccaneersTom Ashworth UFA PatriotsTony Pashos RFA RavensTorrin Tucker RFA CowboysVictor Riley UFA TexansWayne Hunter RFA SeahawksGuard

Bob Hallen UFA Chargers

Corey Hulsey UFA Raiders

Fred Weary UFA Texans

Grey Ruegamer UFA Packers

Jonathan Goodwin UFA Jets

Kris Dielman RFA Chargers

Kyle Kosier UFA Lions

Montrae Holland RFA Saints

Ray Brown UFA Redskins

Reggie Wells RFA Cardinals

Scott Kooistra RFA Bengals

Sean Mahan RFA Buccaneers

Stephen Nea UFA Patriots

Steve Hutchinson UFA Seahawks

Terrence Metcalf UFA Bears

Tom Nutten UFA Rams

Toniu Fonoti UFA Vikings

Tutan Reyes UFA Panthers

Tyrone Hopson UFA Lions

Vince Manuwai RFA Jaguars

Who makes sense as good targets? Other than the obvious Steve Hutchinson that is.

 

[brewer]

I'm not sure it would be as easy to trade that pick as many of you think. The Chargers were able to trade Manning only AFTER they drafted him, and he was the far and away leader of that draft class. This year, there are a number of guys who can legitimately be considered for the #1 overall, so unless you are trading way up, why move at all?Oh yah, good luck trading way up.I agree with all of the 'Texans should trade the pick' sentiment, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

IF they can adequately (REALLY adequately, not just what Texans management thinks is adequate) address the line in free agency, I'd take Bush.  If I were a Texans fan, though, I would be dancing if rather than Bush, I saw three first-round graded O-lineman and John Abraham coming to town.

Here's a list of o-line free agents:Tackle

Adam Haayer UFA CardinalsAnthony Clement UFA 49ersBarrett Brooks UFA SteelersBarry Stokes UFA FalconsBob Whitfield UFA GiantsChad Slaughter UFA RaidersCourtney Van Buren RFAEphraim Salaam UFA JaguarsEthan Brooks UFA CowboysJeff Backus UFA LionsJohn St. Clair UFAJon Runyan UFA EaglesJordan Black RFA ChiefsKevin Barry UFA PackersKevin Shaffer UFA FalconsL.J. Shelton UFA BrownsMakoa Freitas RFA ColtsMatt Hill UFA PanthersMike Pearson UFA JaguarsRex Tucker UFA RamsScott Gragg UFA JetsSeth Wand RFA TexansStocker McDougle UFA DolphinsTodd Fordham UFA PanthersTodd Steussie UFA BuccaneersTom Ashworth UFA PatriotsTony Pashos RFA RavensTorrin Tucker RFA CowboysVictor Riley UFA TexansWayne Hunter RFA SeahawksGuard

Bob Hallen UFA Chargers

Corey Hulsey UFA Raiders

Fred Weary UFA Texans

Grey Ruegamer UFA Packers

Jonathan Goodwin UFA Jets

Kris Dielman RFA Chargers

Kyle Kosier UFA Lions

Montrae Holland RFA Saints

Ray Brown UFA Redskins

Reggie Wells RFA Cardinals

Scott Kooistra RFA Bengals

Sean Mahan RFA Buccaneers

Stephen Nea UFA Patriots

Steve Hutchinson UFA Seahawks

Terrence Metcalf UFA Bears

Tom Nutten UFA Rams

Toniu Fonoti UFA Vikings

Tutan Reyes UFA Panthers

Tyrone Hopson UFA Lions

Vince Manuwai RFA Jaguars

Who makes sense as good targets? Other than the obvious Steve Hutchinson that is.

Not a great crop. Hutchinson is a gem, but the Hawks will re-sign him for sure, even if it means Alexander goes elsewhere. Take a shot at a guy like LJ Shelton, who has talent, but has been something of a disappointment? Maybe a Toniu Fonoti?I'd rebuild through the draft. I personally just place a HUGE premium on a good offensive line - they can make average skill guys look quite good, and the Texans already have some weapons with Carr, Davis, and Johnson that could be great if given time to operate. I am not as enamored of Bush as I am of potentially having a line with 3 Pro Bowlers on it in a couple of years - that's how you build a champion.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I'm not sure it would be as easy to trade that pick as many of you think. The Chargers were able to trade Manning only AFTER they drafted him, and he was the far and away leader of that draft class. This year, there are a number of guys who can legitimately be considered for the #1 overall, so unless you are trading way up, why move at all?

Oh yah, good luck trading way up.

I agree with all of the 'Texans should trade the pick' sentiment, I just don't see it happening.

I think the Jets would jump all over the chance to trade up from 4 to 1, considering the perception that there's a huge upside dropoff after the #3 pick. in fact, I expect the Jets to move down if they can't move up. I don't think there's any way they pick from the #4 spot come draft day.

 

[Osaurus]

....I would hire Matt Millen just to become an even bigger joke in the NFL.

 

[wannabee]

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans. I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

 

[brewer]

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

 

[Bloom]

just to clarify, abraham is not under contract with the jets, so i dont think they can trade him.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

This is another scenario I thought about and would be great for Houston as well. My primary focus when drafting the original plan was to illustrate how they could potentially rebuild the entire line this year in one fell swoop.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I am torn on this.  Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham.  This would be a great trade for the Texans. 

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway.  This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

just to clarify, abraham is not under contract with the jets, so i dont think they can trade him.

I was thinking they'd sign him and then trade him so as not to lose him to free agency for nothing.

 

[massraider]

1. I wonder if Brick is a lock to come in next year and play LT at a high level. If not, what good is it to draft him? So Carr can get beat up for two more years?2. Dom Davis is good enough to pass on Reggie Bush? I don't think so.Sign at least two FA lineman, draft Reggie, and go from there.

 

[msommer]

just to clarify, abraham is not under contract with the jets, so i dont think they can trade him.

I was thinking they'd sign him and then trade him so as not to lose him to free agency for nothing.

Franchise him, then trade him for less than two 1st rounders. Teams try this all the time.

 

[wannabee]

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

I think this is better, for the Jets, than packaging the 2006 2nd and "other picks, to move up to mid-first and trade these for 1.01. I future first rounder is not too much to move into the spot if they covet Bush (insert joke here).

The Abraham part was in response to Evilgrin's post.

 

[brewer]

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

The Abraham thing aside, does anyone really think that the Jets problems would be solved with Reggie Bush? I know the percieved value of the guy, but unless the Jets expect to have an excellent(top 5 or so) record next year, I think giving up an additional #1 to move up 3 spots in the draft, albiet to get the #1 overall, is not a wise move.And is that enough for the Texans to take even? The Chargers got the 1.4 and a third rounder in year one and a first and fifth in year two I believe from the Giants? I just can't see how that was a good deal for the Giants unless Eli becomes an HoF QB.

 

[wannabee]

Do not understand you saying that it was not a good move for either side. I think it would be for the Texans and not a bad one for the Jets.

I am torn on this.  Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham.  This would be a great trade for the Texans. 

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway.  This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

The Abraham thing aside, does anyone really think that the Jets problems would be solved with Reggie Bush? I know the percieved value of the guy, but unless the Jets expect to have an excellent(top 5 or so) record next year, I think giving up an additional #1 to move up 3 spots in the draft, albiet to get the #1 overall, is not a wise move.And is that enough for the Texans to take even? The Chargers got the 1.4 and a third rounder in year one and a first and fifth in year two I believe from the Giants? I just can't see how that was a good deal for the Giants unless Eli becomes an HoF QB.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

just to clarify, abraham is not under contract with the jets, so i dont think they can trade him.

I was thinking they'd sign him and then trade him so as not to lose him to free agency for nothing.

Franchise him, then trade him for less than two 1st rounders. Teams try this all the time.

Exactly.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I am torn on this.  Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham.  This would be a great trade for the Texans. 

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway.  This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

I think this is better, for the Jets, than packaging the 2006 2nd and "other picks, to move up to mid-first and trade these for 1.01. I future first rounder is not too much to move into the spot if they covet Bush (insert joke here).

The Abraham part was in response to Evilgrin's post.

If I were the Jets, I'd rather trade a 2nd and either 3rd or 4th this year than my 1st rounder next year, which could easily be a top-10 pick, but this scenario would likely be more attractive to the Texans.

 

[brewer]

Do not understand you saying that it was not a good move for either side. I think it would be for the Texans and not a bad one for the Jets.

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

The Abraham thing aside, does anyone really think that the Jets problems would be solved with Reggie Bush? I know the percieved value of the guy, but unless the Jets expect to have an excellent(top 5 or so) record next year, I think giving up an additional #1 to move up 3 spots in the draft, albiet to get the #1 overall, is not a wise move.And is that enough for the Texans to take even? The Chargers got the 1.4 and a third rounder in year one and a first and fifth in year two I believe from the Giants? I just can't see how that was a good deal for the Giants unless Eli becomes an HoF QB.

I think that it would be a good move for the Texans, I just don't know if they would be satisfied considering what the Chargers deal was.

 

[msommer]

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Technically the Texans are still building

 

[wannabee]

agreed. Just do not tell them that.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway.  This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Technically the Texans are still building

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I am torn on this.  Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham.  This would be a great trade for the Texans. 

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway.  This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

The Abraham thing aside, does anyone really think that the Jets problems would be solved with Reggie Bush? I know the percieved value of the guy, but unless the Jets expect to have an excellent(top 5 or so) record next year, I think giving up an additional #1 to move up 3 spots in the draft, albiet to get the #1 overall, is not a wise move.And is that enough for the Texans to take even? The Chargers got the 1.4 and a third rounder in year one and a first and fifth in year two I believe from the Giants? I just can't see how that was a good deal for the Giants unless Eli becomes an HoF QB.

I'm not saying their problems would be solved, but Bush in NY is a natural (tons of endorsement opportunities for him, financial boon to the Jets.) Bush could split time with Curtis Martin initially, giving the Jets a great change of pacce backfield, then take over the feature role the following year.I don't think it's a bad trade for the Jets at all. In the original scenario I laid out, they'd give up their second and fourth rounders to move up into the end of round 1, then trade that pick and the 1.4 to Houston. If they already plan on cutting Abraham, franchising him or signing him and throwing him into the deal is not a big deal. Basically, they end up trading a 1st, 2nd, 4th, and Abraham for Bush. Or, they trade this years and next year's #1s, plus Abraham. Sounds reasonable to me if they're sold on Bush as an instant jolt to the offense. For Houston, they give up Bush, but end up with two first-rounders (including the #4 overall) and a terrific pass-rushing end in Abraham. Makes sense for them too, IMO. They could dramatically improve both lines in one offseason while still having several 2-3 other picks in the top 65 to use on a receiver or LB.

 

[brewer]

I am torn on this. Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham. This would be a great trade for the Texans.

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway. This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

The Abraham thing aside, does anyone really think that the Jets problems would be solved with Reggie Bush? I know the percieved value of the guy, but unless the Jets expect to have an excellent(top 5 or so) record next year, I think giving up an additional #1 to move up 3 spots in the draft, albiet to get the #1 overall, is not a wise move.And is that enough for the Texans to take even? The Chargers got the 1.4 and a third rounder in year one and a first and fifth in year two I believe from the Giants? I just can't see how that was a good deal for the Giants unless Eli becomes an HoF QB.

I'm not saying their problems would be solved, but Bush in NY is a natural (tons of endorsement opportunities for him, financial boon to the Jets.) Bush could split time with Curtis Martin initially, giving the Jets a great change of pacce backfield, then take over the feature role the following year.I don't think it's a bad trade for the Jets at all. In the original scenario I laid out, they'd give up their second and fourth rounders to move up into the end of round 1, then trade that pick and the 1.4 to Houston. If they already plan on cutting Abraham, franchising him or signing him and throwing him into the deal is not a big deal. Basically, they end up trading a 1st, 2nd, 4th, and Abraham for Bush. Or, they trade this years and next year's #1s, plus Abraham. Sounds reasonable to me if they're sold on Bush as an instant jolt to the offense. For Houston, they give up Bush, but end up with two first-rounders (including the #4 overall) and a terrific pass-rushing end in Abraham. Makes sense for them too, IMO. They could dramatically improve both lines in one offseason while still having several 2-3 other picks in the top 65 to use on a receiver or LB.

Ok, outside of the marketing side of things(which I understand for Bush and NY), what you are saying is you would rather have Bush than the next available RB(probably all of them if Young and Leinart go at 2 and 3) and an bottom of the first round player. You are probably in the majority, I just happen to disagree.

 

[kingmalaki]

I would trade the pick. I know this has been discussed, but I can't believe the Texans are even considering Bush or Young. They have a QB and an RB there already that could likely do nice things if given the opportunity to play behind a halfway decent offensive line. If I were the Texans, I would broker a deal with the Jets. the Jets have the pick where Ferguson slots in, and they need a replacement RB to Martin and a ticket-selling gate attraction in the worst way. They would clearly move up to grab Bush.

If I'm Houston, I tell the Jets to package their early second round pick with another, or future draft pick, to move up in to the middle-end of round 1. I then trade the rights to Bush to New York for the #4 pick, the acquired first-rounder, and John Abraham. The Jets would likely not be able to re-sign Abraham and sign Bush to a megabucks contract, so they'd be looking to move Abraham anyway. This gives Houston a legitimate pass-rushing threat (no Houston DL had more than 4 sacks last year) and 3 of the top 33 picks. Imagine being able to draft, for example, D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Marcus McNeill, and Max-Jean Gilles? Or Ferguson, Gilles, and Whitworth, for that matter?

They could completely revamp the offensive line and give the guys they've already got locked up long-term (Carr, Davis) a chance to succeed behind an NFL-caliber line. In a few years, they could have the best OL in all of football. In addition, they would dramatically upgrade the defense. Wouldn't this make a lot more sense than drafting a second RB with a similar skill set to the one they already have? Wouldn't it make more sense than trading away their franchise QB for another Rb with a history of drug problems and drafting a raw, unorthodox QB whose game may or may not translate to the pros?

It may not be the "sexy" move, but it would go ten times farther in terms of curing their ills. Taking another route will doom the franchise to mediocrity or worse for at least the next 5 years or so.

What do you think?

The Texans already have the first pick in Round 2 and two picks in Round 3. Why can't they take the projected stud #1 (VY or RB), and acquire a lineman and a passrusher later on? I think numerous teams have shown that you don't need to use high picks on lineman to develop a solid line (unless there is a can't miss stud like Boselli or Roaf).

 

[Texasmouth]

Kubiak will be the difference with this team. The Texans should take Bush. I have been against it all along but with Kubiak on board, he has to be the pick. The Texans will be a deadly running game with Kubiak's O-line scheme and DD and Bush in the back field. I think Kubiak will make the o-line better, he will teach them how to block more efficiently and he will teach them how to open up holes properly to make space for Bush and Davis. Bush and Davis will be exactly like Bush and White in college. I think it will be beneficial for both guys to play off of each other.....just like at USC. The Texans can get themselves a TE in the draft and they can grab a WR in free agency.One thing I just heard this morning was that the Texans are switching to the 4-3 defense, that will also effect their draft because they are going to need some different players to play in that defense. Vince Young is a great pick but not for the Texans. I think Young is going to be a great QB but it will be in Tennessee, learning behind Steve McNair, a great role model for a young QB.

 

[wannabee]

I agree with Evilgrin. In addition, i think most NFL personnel people agree with him, too.

 

[kingmalaki]

Kubiak will be the difference with this team. The Texans should take Bush. I have been against it all along but with Kubiak on board, he has to be the pick. The Texans will be a deadly running game with Kubiak's O-line scheme and DD and Bush in the back field. I think Kubiak will make the o-line better, he will teach them how to block more efficiently and he will teach them how to open up holes properly to make space for Bush and Davis. Bush and Davis will be exactly like Bush and White in college. I think it will be beneficial for both guys to play off of each other.....just like at USC.

The Texans can get themselves a TE in the draft and they can grab a WR in free agency.

One thing I just heard this morning was that the Texans are switching to the 4-3 defense, that will also effect their draft because they are going to need some different players to play in that defense.

Vince Young is a great pick but not for the Texans. I think Young is going to be a great QB but it will be in Tennessee, learning behind Steve McNair, a great role model for a young QB.

If anything, Kubiak/Devner has shown that you don't need to invest a #1 pick on a RB to have a solid running game.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I am torn on this.  Bloom makes a good argument, and the talent of Bush is hard to pass up.

But, another scenario for Evilgrin would be the Jets 2006 and 2007 1st rounders, plus Abraham.  This would be a great trade for the Texans. 

I think of the Texans rebuilding under a 2-3 year plan anyway so the Jets' pick next year, probably in the top half of the draft anyway.  This would give the Texans two top 15 picks next year.

Do you really think the Jets would make that trade? I sure dont.

They very well might. They can't afford Bush and Abraham anyway, so they might see Abraham as a throw-in, though the Texans wouldn't.

The Abraham thing aside, does anyone really think that the Jets problems would be solved with Reggie Bush? I know the percieved value of the guy, but unless the Jets expect to have an excellent(top 5 or so) record next year, I think giving up an additional #1 to move up 3 spots in the draft, albiet to get the #1 overall, is not a wise move.And is that enough for the Texans to take even? The Chargers got the 1.4 and a third rounder in year one and a first and fifth in year two I believe from the Giants? I just can't see how that was a good deal for the Giants unless Eli becomes an HoF QB.

I'm not saying their problems would be solved, but Bush in NY is a natural (tons of endorsement opportunities for him, financial boon to the Jets.) Bush could split time with Curtis Martin initially, giving the Jets a great change of pacce backfield, then take over the feature role the following year.I don't think it's a bad trade for the Jets at all. In the original scenario I laid out, they'd give up their second and fourth rounders to move up into the end of round 1, then trade that pick and the 1.4 to Houston. If they already plan on cutting Abraham, franchising him or signing him and throwing him into the deal is not a big deal. Basically, they end up trading a 1st, 2nd, 4th, and Abraham for Bush. Or, they trade this years and next year's #1s, plus Abraham. Sounds reasonable to me if they're sold on Bush as an instant jolt to the offense. For Houston, they give up Bush, but end up with two first-rounders (including the #4 overall) and a terrific pass-rushing end in Abraham. Makes sense for them too, IMO. They could dramatically improve both lines in one offseason while still having several 2-3 other picks in the top 65 to use on a receiver or LB.

Ok, outside of the marketing side of things(which I understand for Bush and NY), what you are saying is you would rather have Bush than the next available RB(probably all of them if Young and Leinart go at 2 and 3) and an bottom of the first round player. You are probably in the majority, I just happen to disagree.

That's cool - that's why I posted this thread to begin with, to see different takes on this and get an idea of what others thought Houston should do. I don't even know why I care, or why it intrigues me, I guess we all like to fantasize about getting paid big bucks to do this stuff...

 

[Chaos Commish]

1. I wonder if Brick is a lock to come in next year and play LT at a high level. If not, what good is it to draft him? So Carr can get beat up for two more years?

2. Dom Davis is good enough to pass on Reggie Bush? I don't think so.

Sign at least two FA lineman, draft Reggie, and go from there.

1. Is a really good point. With the exceptions of Pace and Ogden it always takes a couple years for a left tackle to develop. Walter Jones took a couple years and some Seahawks fans were angry with that pick. D'Brick is very good, but he is not Ogden or Pace. No way. He is a little undersized and he's going to need some time.I'm happy to finally see Chester Pitts get some credit around here. He's a good story. He was a natural LT in college, who was, like so many others, projected as an NFL guard as 2nd round draft pick five years ago. He struggled in the interior for a few years, but he was developing. He once led the NFL in penalties, and he twice made the All-Joe team (USA TODAY's salute to unappreciated run blocking lineman). He is about as good a run blocker as you will find. Finally this season, Capers moved him to LT (because of injuries to lesser talents). This is a good argument for what a crappy job Capers did there. Pitts should have been the LT for a couple years already. In 11 starts at LT he gave up three sacks (that's nearly an all-pro number). Additionally, when further injury forced Weigert ( a decent guard) to right tackle, Houston had to send all it's TE, RB, double team help to the right side. Weigert was in over his head on the edge, out of position and playing hurt. So Pitts was on an island at LT, and he kicked butt. He twice shut down Freeeney. He shut down Jared Allen. He finished the year practically dominating Jax, AZ, and SF.

The point is they don't need a LT any more than they need a QB or RB with that first pick. Weigert will be a solid veteran presence back at guard next year. They need a center badly, and they need another guard and they need a RT desperately.

They CAN find all three of those with their 2nd and 3rd rounders. They probably won't though. Their defense is ranked lower than their offense. It looks like Colledge or Whitworth will be there for their second rounder. Colledge is a pure LT (possible guard) and not the big mauler you want on the right side. Whitworth would be an excellent RT.

Houston fans should prepare for this possibility though. NO OL with the first two picks.

1=Bush, 2=Best available defensive player. The outrage would be hysterical.

Sounds crazy, but I think this might maybe possibly could be the best way to start rebuilding. Open the third round with 2 OLs. There's 9 really good tackles in this draft. One WILL fall, and the good news is it will be one who projects to the right side. O'Callaghan or Trueblood being the most likely suspects and they are both pretty damned good LTs in college who will both be very good RTs as rookies. They are in the mold-- big strong maulers. Then nab the best guard or center. Latui could be there. Davin Joseph could be there. Spitz and Sims and Setterstrom will be there. These are guys who will have long successful careers in the interior, and I am just scratching the surface with a few names. The SF personnel director thinks the interior OL guys are as deep and as good as the LTs this year. What if they did this and signed LeCharles Bentley? If not, they already have two guys who can play center. What if an intense competition for NFL survival gets one of these center prospects playing at a higher level? What if one develops with better support around him? Or they could draft a quality center and develop someone at guard.

They have to address the defense. Passing on Bush could be something they regret for a decade. There is incredible talent and depth at OL in this draft. There will be a very good lineman available in the 4th round. I'll predict it now. Some 4th round lineman will be drafted, start somewhere, and be an absolute steal.

How about this?

1.01 Reggie Bush (the possibilities are tremendous)

2.01 Abdul Hodge (run stuffer as good as Lofa or Odell-- I think better) OR,

2.01 Manny Lawson (maybe the best pass rusher in the draft)

3.01 Ryan O'Callaghan (excellent RT) OR,

3.01 Jeremy Trueblood (excellent RT)

3.02 Deuce Latui (he's a beast who can play RT himself)

How's this for some rebuilding?

A gamebreaker in the mold of Tomlinson at RB to go with Dom and Co.

A linebacker who will have as much impact as Tatupu and Thurman did.

Or a pass rusher who will be similar to Merriman and Ware.

This OL:

RT (looking good with O'Call or True)

RG (Weigert, will be fine healthy here)

C (McKinney, develops or must be improved)

LG (Latui,stud, dominating)

LT (Pitts, very good)

It's not a bad approach. Yes, the OL was horrible even if it stayed healthy. So was the defense.

 

[GreedoShotFirst]

Ferguson=Chris Samuels. Good, but a little small and not quite a great player. He'll go high in the draft because LTs are so hard to come by.

 

[Bad_Mo]

I think that you are smarter than Charley Casserly

Probably has better hair than him too!

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think that you are smarter than Charley Casserly

Probably has better hair than him too!

I have awesome hair. Awesome. Kiper would be envious, let alone Casserly.I see the merits of taking Bush here too - as I said earlier, I am a huge OL guy (former QB in HS) and if I were a Texans fan, I accrue as many first-rounders this year as I could and go hog wild on the OL. They could take DeAngelo Williams with their first pick in my trade scenario if they really want another RB and still grab Whitworth and Gilles to play RT and RG, respectively - which would be a potentially dominant right side for 10 years.

 

[Chaos Commish]

I am a huge OL guy (former QB in HS) and if I were a Texans fan, I accrue as many first-rounders this year as I could and go hog wild on the OL. They could take DeAngelo Williams with their first pick in my trade scenario if they really want another RB and still grab Whitworth and Gilles to play RT and RG, respectively - which would be a potentially dominant right side for 10 years.

I'm a huge OL guy too (former hs OL coach). I challenge anyobody to break down film of the top 9 LTs and rank them. They are that close in talent and potential. I'll defer to all the pro scouts on D'Brick, but after him this unusual supply reduces the demand, because very similar prospects will be available through the early stages of round three. Houston has the first two third rounders. Nice for them if they are smart. I've also predicted that five years from now, D'Brick will not be the best of this class. We all know the three teams who went DL and OL and passed on Tomlinson made a big mistake. We also know RBs drop like flies in this league-- Green, McAllister, Davenport, Holmes, Westbrook, Foster, Taylor, DDavis, SDavis, Dillon, Martin, Brown, KJ, JJ, TJ, Benson, Williams and some others all went down at one point, some for good. Sure you can find a productive back if you have a good OL. But, I think we're all becoming satsified with productive backs and not considering how mediocre the position is across the league and how valuable greatness can be. How nice was it for the Chiefs to have LJ after Priest went down? How many times did Houston's line get an RB into the 2nd level where Bush is so devastating? I watched one game where I saw three runs I thought Bush would have scored on. I came here to post about it, and someone else had already posted the same thought. If he scored on just one of them Houston likely wins that game. Houston didn't score on two of those drives and settled for a FG on the other.

I think it's been proven since the 60s that passing on BAP early in the draft to address needs is a big big mistake.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Whitworth and Gilles to play RT and RG, respectively - which would be a potentially dominant right side for 10 years.

Also, the left side in my scenario would be potentially dominant for years. Pitts can run block with the best of them. Period. He is 6-4 and 325, very very powerful, and quick as a cat. He is better than D'Brick and will be for a couple more years. His pass protection this year was unexpectedly terrific. Line up Latui next to him and you give Jones and Hutch a run for their run blocking money. And both are very good pass blockers. The left side can be solidified with one third round pick. It's the rest of the line that stinks.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Whitworth and Gilles to play RT and RG, respectively - which would be a potentially dominant right side for 10 years.

Also, the left side in my scenario would be potentially dominant for years. Pitts can run block with the best of them. Period. He is 6-4 and 225, very very powerful, and quick as a cat. He is better than D'Brick and will be for a couple more years. His pass protection this year was unexpectedly terrific. Line up Latui next to him and you give Jones and Hutch a run for their run blocking money. And both are very good pass blockers. The left side can be solidified with one third round pick. It's the rest of the line that stinks.

Didn't I read somewhere that their center actually played pretty well?Those two picks in the third are gold for them. Think of the names that could/should be there -

Tackles: Ryan O'Callaghan ,Andrew Whitworth, Daryn Colledge, Jeremy Trueblood

Guards: Charles Spencer, Jason Spitz, Lutui, Mark Setterstrom

Center: Greg Eslinger, Nick Mangold, Ryan Cook