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If Manning beats Wilson, he is the greatest of all time. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eminence
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
X
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
A win here guarantees that Peyton comes back for another couple seasons, right? I mean, he'd then be that close to clear GOAT, and another SB win or two after this year, combined with some more absurd statistical seasons, would have to put him over the top. How do you walk away from that, especially when DEN has the right pieces in place on both sides of the ball now, and that won't change anytime soon?
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
I like this internal debate everyone's having as to at what point outrageous career stats constitutes as an extra ring so to speak for Manning lol.
Otis
Footballguy
BTW, Joe was a stud in his day, and I recognize nostalgia is a powerful drug that is always going to boost value against a current player, but if you had 1M of your own money on the line and had to pick a guy to QB your team to a win today, and you could choose any QB of all time in their prime, you'd have to be picking Peyton.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Short Corner
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
In three weeks, Peyton Manning will be exactly as good of a quarterback as he is today. Just like how today he's exactly as good of a quarterback as he was three weeks ago.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
It's hard to not put Montana at number 1, but, IMO, Montana, Peyton, Brady, and Elway are top 4; it's just a matter of what order you want to put them in.
Short Corner
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I think Peyton already is the best of all-time.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This is the week for out of control hyperbole for everything Bronco & Seahawk.
I have to go with Elway he carried an average Denver team to two SB's and even though they lost them very few Qb's could have done what he did. Then when he got a stud rb he started winning them. Montana, Bradshaw and Aikman might have had the best teams out of any SB winning Qb and really I think average Qb's could have won a SB with those teams. Manning IMO is a great season QB but if Elways was on his teams with those weapon and the new laxed touching rules he might have looked like Bill Russell when he put his jewelry on
T with T
Footballguy
yea but they are 3-3 against each other in the playoffs and Manning had terrible defenses in INDY just like Brady is getting now.....
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Arguing over these guys is obviously futile and pointless, but those sentiments are why I put Peyton at the top of my list.
For 13 of 15 seasons, having Peyton Manning on your team meant you were winning at least 10 games. For 10 of the 15 seasons, you were winning 12+ games. That's with 4 different coaches and 2 different franchises. Insane.
The rules have helped his cause and there was plenty of talent on many of those teams, but what my eyes told me watching him over the years was that this guy had more control of the game than any player I've ever seen. For the vast majority of his games, the defense just seemed helpless in a way I just didn't see as much with other QBs.
Watching him has led me to believe that throwing him on most any team will make them far better than they would've been otherwise, and for most, one of the best in the NFL. IMO, moreso than any other QB in history.
There's no way to ever prove who was the best, but it's Manning for me.
cstu
Footballguy
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Greatest of all-time behind: (in no particular order)
Montana
Favre
Marino
Moon
Bradshaw
Brady
There are some who would take Aikman......at least that is the impression I am getting in the AFC title thread.
Had to throw that in.
How many does Marino win?
We can go on and on with all this. A truly greatest of all time can debated till we are blue in the face.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Yeah right. Try 0. Can you imagine a 9 year old kid playing QB behind the 9ers? No way he even completes a pass.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Lik Rocky, Russell is a few inches shorter than his adversary.
But if we're in the qb boxing league, think Ben would beat them both.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Peyton is the best QB of all time but not the greatest. I use the same distinction with Tiger vs Jack. 'Best' is most dominant, most talented. 'Greatest' is most accomplished, most historically successful.
Peyton's IQ, command of offenses, reading defenses, sheer productivity is tops IMO. If you had to pick any QB to take over a team and lead them to success, I would pick him hands down. But he won't pass Montana in terms of accomplishment.
Peyton's IQ, command of offenses, reading defenses, sheer productivity is tops IMO. If you had to pick any QB to take over a team and lead them to success, I would pick him hands down. But he won't pass Montana in terms of accomplishment.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Good post.
Peyton on the Seahawks (salary cap aside) would be the best team all time. Russell on the Broncos loses to the chargers, if they even make the playoffs.
kutta
Footballguy
Exactly as good? I disagree. Do you think if he completely chokes in the SB it has no bearing on his standing as the GOAT? If he goes out and throws for 400 and 4 TD's against this Seattle D on the biggest possible stage, it does nothing to increase his standing?
A QB does not get many chances at the big stage, so when they do have a chance, it really matters.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
His statement is erroneous because he incorrectly assumes Manning won't gain any experience and understanding of the game in 2 weeks.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Question: would Peyton Manning be a better quarterback today if Rahim Moore was three inches taller? Manning would be more ACCOMPLISHED, he would have a BETTER CAREER, but he'd be exactly the same quarterback.
I believe it was Bill Self who, when asked what it was like to finally break through and win a championship after coming so close so many times, said he was no better a coach today than he had been yesterday. A lot of things have to go right in order to win a championship. No one player is going to be in control of all of those things. Every player's legacy is going to hinge on things that are 100% outside of his control... but no player or coach is a "better" or "worse" player because of things that are outside of his control. The game in two weeks will change how Peyton Manning is remembered, but it will have no impact on how great he actually was.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Except all of Tom Brady's superbowl rings came from cheating, good defense, and great kicking. Not great quaterback play.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Shlon
Footballguy
I think Manning would be the greatest of all-time. I loved Montana but besides the 1981 Super Bowl season, Montana was on some of the greatest teams of all-time with hall of famers all around him as a supporting cast. Peyton Manning had a good supporting cast in some years but none on the level that Montana had with stellar defenses and offenses. It was a different era with no salary cap back then, so the 49ers could just load up on talent.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
You also had Young winning one with that SF team, while with Manning you would have him winning with 2 different teams.
Insein
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
Short Corner
Footballguy
It wasn't Self. Somebody told Dean Smith that after he won his first title. Probably made its way to Self as he is from the same coaching tree.
Short Corner
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He might just already be the greatest of all time. I certainly wouldn't argue with it and I've always thought JohnnyU and Joe Montana were 1a and 1b. JU invented the modern day QB and Joe Montana was Joe Cool. I think of Peyton Manning in the same light as those two and he's the only active QB that I can say that about.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Indy went all in with their offense and hoped their defense was "good enough". Peyton's numbers are product of that decision as well as their post season success. The Pats went a different direction and the same can be said of Brady and their post season results. Sure, you can argue that, given the Pats D, Peyton wins more playoff games, but it also follows that, given theColts skill players, Brady would have put up similar passing numbers that Peyton has..
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Waiting for the Brady defenders...But you're correct. Essentially, according to Adam's legacy vs. Greatness theory, Brady owes his entire legacy to Vinatieri's right foot.
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