If these players retired after this year, who gets in the HOF? (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

7 guys at different positions at or very near the end of their careers. All sure-fire HOF locks. Let's say they all decided to retire after this year and all became eligible the same year. Which guys above get in over others? You can vote for more than 1 above.

ETA--I stated below that I actually left off a couple like Bailey and Bruce. If there's any other sure-fire locks at the end of their careers, let me know. I didn't put in Moss or Peyton or Brady, for example, since I think those guys easily still play at least 2-3 more years.

 

[Rovers]

I think they are all HoF, but only voted for the ones I think get in on the first ballot.

 

[gianmarco]

I think they are all HoF, but only voted for the ones I think get in on the first ballot.

Yes, I think they are too. I should have included that above. Just which are "more deserving" than others and, as you said, clear 1st ballot. That's an impressive list of guys to go in soon and a couple of them might be bumped. I didn't even list guys like Champ Bailey and I. Bruce who would undoubtedly get bumped from that above group.

 

[CrossEyed]

What's the max class size?

 

[gianmarco]

What's the max class size?

Well, that's the thing. It's going to be limited to a max of 4-5 depending on what other players are still up for candidacy that would be there as well. That's why I didn't specify. I think the absolute max would be 5 and that's assuming all 5 would come from the same year and get in as 1st ballot, bumping every other eligible candidate from before.

 

[encaitar]

Of that list, Favre, Ray Lewis, and Tomlinson are first ballot HOFers if they all become eligible at the same time. Warner will be too if the Cards make the Super Bowl this year. Everyone else waits a year or more IMO.

 

[CrossEyed]

What's the max class size?

Well, that's the thing. It's going to be limited to a max of 4-5 depending on what other players are still up for candidacy that would be there as well. That's why I didn't specify. I think the absolute max would be 5 and that's assuming all 5 would come from the same year and get in as 1st ballot, bumping every other eligible candidate from before.

OK, went with:FavreWarnerLewisLTGonzo

 

[Vladislav Tretiak]

Of that list, Favre, Ray Lewis, and Tomlinson are first ballot HOFers if they all become eligible at the same time. Warner will be too if the Cards make the Super Bowl this year. Everyone else waits a year or more IMO.

Why Warner over Favre?Favre holds a lot of passing records and is a three time MVP of the league.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Everyone but Tomlinson.

 

[CrossEyed]

Everyone but Tomlinson.

1500+ yards from scrimmage (including 3 of 2000+) and 10+ TDs (including 6 in a row of 15+) for the first 8 years of his career. How does he not get in first ballot?

 

[Truman]

Are we really passing on Junior Seau? A former DPOY who went to 12 straight Pro Bowls and a 9-time all-pro? He's probably my second vote behind Lewis.

 

[gianmarco]

What's the max class size?

Well, that's the thing. It's going to be limited to a max of 4-5 depending on what other players are still up for candidacy that would be there as well. That's why I didn't specify. I think the absolute max would be 5 and that's assuming all 5 would come from the same year and get in as 1st ballot, bumping every other eligible candidate from before.

OK, went with:FavreWarnerLewisLTGonzo

So do you think these guys are all good enough candidates to bump every other eligible candidate that hasn't made it in so far? Guys like Tim Brown, John Randle, Shannon Sharpe, Cris Carter, etc?

 

[CrossEyed]

What's the max class size?

Well, that's the thing. It's going to be limited to a max of 4-5 depending on what other players are still up for candidacy that would be there as well. That's why I didn't specify. I think the absolute max would be 5 and that's assuming all 5 would come from the same year and get in as 1st ballot, bumping every other eligible candidate from before.

OK, went with:FavreWarnerLewisLTGonzo

So do you think these guys are all good enough candidates to bump every other eligible candidate that hasn't made it in so far? Guys like Tim Brown, John Randle, Shannon Sharpe, Cris Carter, etc?

Without knowing who won't get in over the next 5 years, that's hard to say.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Are we really passing on Junior Seau? A former DPOY who went to 12 straight Pro Bowls and a 9-time all-pro? He's probably my second vote behind Lewis.

Seau's best years were before fantasy football was popular. Most of the people voting in this poll never saw him play.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Anyone that doesn't vote TO should have their voting privilages stripped from them. Guy was a 5 time All Pro at WR, only Gonzalez, Seau, and Ray Lewis have done that on this list.

They are are getting in but the bias against TO is obscene.

 

[slayer666]

Favre, LT, Ray-Ray and Gonzo seem like slam-dunk, first-ballot HOFers to me.

 

[WKTSWAY]

I think Favre and Ray Lewis may be the only ones.

Gonzo won't be first ballot because by the time 5 years have gone, Gates will probably have broken all of his records (same reason Sharpe wasn't first ballot). LT will be very close...I don't have an argument against him, but I can't see more than 2 first ballots making it in a single year.

 

[Rovers]

Anyone that doesn't vote TO should have their voting privilages stripped from them. Guy was a 5 time All Pro at WR, only Gonzalez, Seau, and Ray Lewis have done that on this list. They are are getting in but the bias against TO is obscene.

I think the HoF voters will "punish" him because they are old schoolers. I voted based on which players I think get in on the 1st ballot, not the ones I would vote for. They will all get in, just a question of which ones have to wait for their second year of eligabilty. That is a guess, not an opinion. The HoF voters are very image "sensitive". It's likely the reason Klecko can't get in. There may even be enough voters to block Moss his first year. Warner is squeeky clean. Goes in on the first ballot. Seau might get more first ballot votes than Lewis does.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think Favre and Ray Lewis may be the only ones.Gonzo won't be first ballot because by the time 5 years have gone, Gates will probably have broken all of his records (same reason Sharpe wasn't first ballot). LT will be very close...I don't have an argument against him, but I can't see more than 2 first ballots making it in a single year.

I doubt Gates will catch Gonzo to be honest. Gates turns 30 next summer. He has 479 catches...I think Gonzo is knocking on 1,000 recptions if he hasn't eclipsed it already, he's something #7 all time in receptions in the NFL including WRs, fyi...Gonzalez will retire with almost every record for a TE and I don't see anyone touching them anytime soon. Edited to add: Gonzo has 999 receptions, his first one next season will break the 1,000 mark, a first for a TE.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Anyone that doesn't vote TO should have their voting privilages stripped from them. Guy was a 5 time All Pro at WR, only Gonzalez, Seau, and Ray Lewis have done that on this list. They are are getting in but the bias against TO is obscene.

He'll get in, but not in the first year. All of the other guys on this list will make it before him, as they should.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Anyone that doesn't vote TO should have their voting privilages stripped from them. Guy was a 5 time All Pro at WR, only Gonzalez, Seau, and Ray Lewis have done that on this list. They are are getting in but the bias against TO is obscene.

He'll get in, but not in the first year. All of the other guys on this list will make it before him, as they should.

I posted back at you in the other thread, why would TO not get in? The guy has made every QB he ever played with during his prime so much better. Garcia, McNabb, ROmo, almost all of them have career years or in Garcia's case simply a career period. TO runs routes, can work the middle of the field, can take a simple slant and turn it into a huge gain, can run the out, skinny post, he's not a 1 dimensional WR. I don't understand why he would not be a 1st ballot, he is a dynamic WR with a very special set of skills that are very hard to duplicate. I'm sorry but he did some things that were very rare when you go over his statistics and the QBs he workd with. Dan Marino made Mark Duper and Mark Clayton. Terrell Owens wasn't made by anyone. We see that almost every WR gets better when Manning is under center. Randy Moss doesn't make his QB leaps and bounds better always. TO was one of the most dominant WRs in the NFL over this past decade.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I posted back at you in the other thread, why would TO not get in?

I didn't say he won't get in. I said he won't get in in his first year of eligibility because I think voters will hold his well-deserved reputation as a team cancer against him. None of the other guys on this list have a black mark like that against them. He'll get in, but it will take a few years.

The guy has made every QB he ever played with during his prime so much better. Garcia, McNabb, ROmo, almost all of them have career years or in Garcia's case simply a career period.

2009 was arguably Tony Romo's best season as a pro; he proved this year that he doesn't need Owens to be a very good/great QB.

TO was one of the most dominant WRs in the NFL over this past decade.

Agreed. But I still don't think he will make it his first year.

 

[bryhamm]

all but TO

 

[Twilight]

All are no-contest HOFers, and will all get in early in their eligibility vs later. But with only 5 possible entries a year, they all can't get in right away.

Favre and Ray Lewis aren't even worth discussing being made to wait. They are in.

Warner and Seau play the same position as those two. I don't think the committee will mind allowing 2 QBs in one year, but I don't see 2 LBs managing the same. Seau misses out because of this, as Lewis is the stronger of the two, IMO.

Receivers have tended to wait to get in. Gonzo will probably follow this trend, as will TO, although his off-field attitude will be equally responsible.

Lastly LT will also wait, IMO. He won't beat Emmitt for yardage, and, unless he manages this year, he won't have a SB win, or even a great playoff resume to pad his spectacular regular season stats. These aren't reasons to keep him out of the Hall, but it will be enough to ease the conscious' of the voters when they leave him out year one.

 

[CalBear]

I think Favre and Ray Lewis may be the only ones.Gonzo won't be first ballot because by the time 5 years have gone, Gates will probably have broken all of his records (same reason Sharpe wasn't first ballot). LT will be very close...I don't have an argument against him, but I can't see more than 2 first ballots making it in a single year.

Gonzalez currently has 999 receptions and 11807 yards. Gates has 479 receptions and 6223 yards. That means Gates would have to average over 100 receptions and 1115 yards per season to catch Gonzo in five years. Gates has never had more than 80 receptions and has more than 1115 yards just once in his career. There's no way Gates will catch Gonzo, especially considering that Gates is just 4 years younger. Sharpe had to wait because he wasn't as good a player as Gonzo. Gonzo is better than either Gates or Witten.

 

[BoltBacker]

top 5 at their position in the history of the league AND were team leaders for SB champions

Favre

Lewis

first year

top 5 at their position in the history of the league(no ring)

Tomlinson

Gonzales

second year

great career resume, loved by voters/media/players

Warner

Seau

third year

great career resume

----

fourth year

great career resume, baggage, hated by too many voters/media/players

Owens

fifteen &amp*&^%! years!!! ~ signed Jim Rice

 

[Tau837]

I think all will make the HOF, and because the scenario posed here likely won't occur, I think all will make it first ballot. But given the scenario posed here, only 5 can make it first ballot. I think those would be Favre, Warner, Lewis, Seau, and Tomlinson. In this scenario it is easy to leave Owens out due to his attitude issues, though I don't think that will happen in real life. It came down to a choice between Seau and Gonzalez for the other guy who would have to wait, and I think TE gets less respect overall, making it Gonzo.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

top 5 at their position in the history of the league(no ring)Tomlinson

TO has a better claim to this than Tomlinson does.

 

[TLEF316]

If 5 is the max class size, Warner and TO have to wait a year.

 

[Tau837]

If 5 is the max class size, Warner and TO have to wait a year.

Pretty sure every HOF QB has gone in on first ballot. Of course, this is a contrived scenario, so I guess all bets are off.

 

[TLEF316]

If 5 is the max class size, Warner and TO have to wait a year.

Pretty sure every HOF QB has gone in on first ballot. Of course, this is a contrived scenario, so I guess all bets are off.

i just think the other players have had better careers. Warner has made himself a HOF'er, but his career started late and he basically had a 3 year period in the middle where he was a non-factor. I can't see him getting in over guys like Favre, Lewis, Seau, LT and Gonzo. All of them are immortals at their position.

 

[gianmarco]

All are no-contest HOFers, and will all get in early in their eligibility vs later. But with only 5 possible entries a year, they all can't get in right away.Favre and Ray Lewis aren't even worth discussing being made to wait. They are in.Warner and Seau play the same position as those two. I don't think the committee will mind allowing 2 QBs in one year, but I don't see 2 LBs managing the same. Seau misses out because of this, as Lewis is the stronger of the two, IMO.Receivers have tended to wait to get in. Gonzo will probably follow this trend, as will TO, although his off-field attitude will be equally responsible.Lastly LT will also wait, IMO. He won't beat Emmitt for yardage, and, unless he manages this year, he won't have a SB win, or even a great playoff resume to pad his spectacular regular season stats. These aren't reasons to keep him out of the Hall, but it will be enough to ease the conscious' of the voters when they leave him out year one.

I tend to agree with this. Well put. I know it's a contrived scenario, but we have some amazing active football players that have some very impressive resumes.

 

[drew726]

I think people are forgetting how good Seau was in the 90's.

 

[BassNBrew]

I think people are forgetting how good Seau was in the 90's.

And I tend to think Lewis is over hyped a bit. Didn't he totally dominate for a few years and then start to tail off? Not saying he doesn't belong, but Gonzo/Owens/Favre/Warner all had more huge seasons. Didn't Lewis also do a stint in the slammer for being involved in whacking a dude?

 

[Tau837]

I think people are forgetting how good Seau was in the 90's.

And I tend to think Lewis is over hyped a bit. Didn't he totally dominate for a few years and then start to tail off? Not saying he doesn't belong, but Gonzo/Owens/Favre/Warner all had more huge seasons. Didn't Lewis also do a stint in the slammer for being involved in whacking a dude?

Lewis won DPOY twice. Only others to do so: Lawrence Taylor (3), Reggie White (2), Joe Greene (2), Mike Singletary (2), Bruce Smith (2), Reggie White (2). Pretty elite company there.He also won Super Bowl MVP, pretty rare for a defensive player. It's only happened 8 times in 43 Super Bowls, and 4 of those came in the first 12 Super Bowls, so it's only happened 4 times in the last 31 Super Bowls.Lewis has 6 1st team All Pro selections and 2 2nd team All Pro selections. I don't know where to find how that measures up, but it seems really strong to me. He was 1st team All Pro in 5 of 6 seasons from 1999-2004, with the only exception being 2002, when he only played 5 games. (And he only played 6 games in 2005 also.) Then he made it again in 2008, which would seem to refute the notion that he tailed off.

 

[scooterg61]

Anyone that doesn't vote TO should have their voting privilages stripped from them. Guy was a 5 time All Pro at WR, only Gonzalez, Seau, and Ray Lewis have done that on this list. They are are getting in but the bias against TO is obscene.

owens is a no where near HOF.. what did he do?? o..ok.. he made the pro bowl.. fans vote for that right?? what records did he set?? did he win any super bowls??? was he ever a MVP?? please help me out here.. cuz honestly.. i dont think he is anywhere near hof.. everywhere he goes he causing destruction

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Anyone that doesn't vote TO should have their voting privilages stripped from them. Guy was a 5 time All Pro at WR, only Gonzalez, Seau, and Ray Lewis have done that on this list. They are are getting in but the bias against TO is obscene.

owens is a no where near HOF.. what did he do?? o..ok.. he made the pro bowl.. fans vote for that right?? what records did he set?? did he win any super bowls??? was he ever a MVP?? please help me out here.. cuz honestly.. i dont think he is anywhere near hof.. everywhere he goes he causing destruction

1. You are allowing personal moral biases to get in the way of clear thinking. TO never was arrested by the police, was never found doing dope, was never a problem off the field that I know of. OK, he had some contract issues and perhaps is a prima donna, many are. 2. From 2000-2009, this past decade TO scored more TDs than any other WR except Randy Moss. Starting in 2000 when Jeff Garia was his QB, TO ripped off the following stats...2000-97/1451/13TD2001-93/1412/16TD2002-100/1300/13TD2003-80/1100/9TD2004-77/1200/14TD2006-85/1180/13TD2007-81/1355/15TD2008-69/1052/10TDThis is pretty jaw dropping. You won't find those type of numbers with either of the Marks Brothers, but looking at HoF WRs in already, you don't see anything like this for James Lofton, Steve Largent, CHarlie Joiner, Michael Irvin, Don Maynard...even Lance ALworth who is rightfully in the discussions for top5 all time doesn't quite have the resume TO has although the seasons were shorter way back when. To say that TO is not a HoF WR takes a mighty leap of faith. You can pray they don't put him in on the 1st ballot but he is getting in one way or the other. He played in a SB, did very well I might add on a busted leg, most QBs get a huge uptick when he is starting, guy is a complete WR that makes all the catches both short and long. Not sure what you use for a measuring stick.I have other WRs form this era though that I believe are HoF and perhaps even more worthy than some like Moss and Harrison. And you slurred the Pro Bowl but TO is a 5 time All Pro and that's voted on by the media not the fans. Not many WRs can say that.

 

[Sweet Love]

Are we really passing on Junior Seau? A former DPOY who went to 12 straight Pro Bowls and a 9-time all-pro? He's probably my second vote behind Lewis.

I agree. He was a no-brainer to me. I thought only four could go (I thought there was another spt reserved for Founders and Coaches, but maybe I am wrong)...either way, I voted a top 4. I went with Favre, Seau, Lewis and Gonzo. The fourth spot (Gonzo was toughest for me) as i thought TO has the numbers, but his attitude may keep him from being 1st ballot. I know people are high on LT, but he played during a time where RBs put up some gaudy numbers. I LOVE ME the CuMar, but he has the third most yards for a RB ever (and as much as it pains me to say this, he is not the third best ever). Shaun Alexander (I believe) is top 3-4 in TDs for RBs, but he too is not the best to play (does not mean he and CuMar should not get in, just that their stats inflate their greatness). Now, LT "could" be 10X greater than each, but he played at a time where his running mates also had unprecented success, and that may hurt him (like it did Chris Carter). Mind you, I am not a "hater" and reveled in what he did on the field, I am basing my assumption off of trends and feel it the OP is correct and alll 7 retire, LT may see himself on the outside.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

If the criteria is that you can only pick four, I'd go Seau, Lewis, Gonzalez and TO.

 

[Sweet Love]

If the criteria is that you can only pick four, I'd go Seau, Lewis, Gonzalez and TO.

Very interseting; I like your top 4 (they resemble 4 of my possible 5), but I also think Favre is the #1 shoe-in. Why did you leave him off?

 

[Tau837]

If the criteria is that you can only pick four, I'd go Seau, Lewis, Gonzalez and TO.

Very interseting; I like your top 4 (they resemble 4 of my possible 5), but I also think Favre is the #1 shoe-in. Why did you leave him off?

Team Follows Closely...

 

[Ravens]

Favre, Lewis & LT.

 

[gianmarco]

I'm honestly surprised LT is getting so many more vote than Seau.

 

[bonesman]

all but TO

same

 

[CanadianNFLJunkie]

Are we really passing on Junior Seau? A former DPOY who went to 12 straight Pro Bowls and a 9-time all-pro? He's probably my second vote behind Lewis.

Seau's best years were before fantasy football was popular. Most of the people voting in this poll never saw him play.

Define FF being popular please? I've been doing this probably for the longest time than anyone else on here.... probably more years than most of your ages. From this group I'd say Favre, LT, Gonzo and Lewis only. Seau's numbers are going to be watered down because of the average years he's had over the last 5-7 years. TO won't get in right away because of his antics and Warner will probably get in the following year.

 

[Sweet Love]

If the criteria is that you can only pick four, I'd go Seau, Lewis, Gonzalez and TO.

Very interseting; I like your top 4 (they resemble 4 of my possible 5), but I also think Favre is the #1 shoe-in. Why did you leave him off?

Team Follows Closely...

JWB,Do you mean it is odd he does not think Favre is a shoe-in b/c he follows the Vikes and has a better perspective or that it is odd that he follows the Vikes and can't see how great he is??BTW, I hate all tihngs State (except my Jerricho and Rivers), but I have to admit, I love you avatar!

 

[Traders2001]

Warner , Favre and Tomlinson.

Ray Lewis ...Please he is closer to jail then HOF. The guy is a ............. he has nothing to do in the HOF...

 

[finito]

all but TO

same

I put TO in ahead of Warner. TO is one of the top 5 WRs to ever play. Warner isn't (IMO) one of the top 5 QBs to ever play, though I do think he should get in.

 

[Sweet Love]

Are we really passing on Junior Seau? A former DPOY who went to 12 straight Pro Bowls and a 9-time all-pro? He's probably my second vote behind Lewis.

Seau's best years were before fantasy football was popular. Most of the people voting in this poll never saw him play.

Define FF being popular please? I've been doing this probably for the longest time than anyone else on here.... probably more years than most of your ages. From this group I'd say Favre, LT, Gonzo and Lewis only. Seau's numbers are going to be watered down because of the average years he's had over the last 5-7 years. TO won't get in right away because of his antics and Warner will probably get in the following year.

While you may be a "pioneer", it is pretty well-known that FF took off at the advent of the innernets...at best since 2001 or so that it hit "mainstream". I have been playing since 1997 and I distinctly remember times where I was a little embarrased about bring up "frat boy Dungeons and Dragons". It did not last long but if you want to know when it became "mainstream", think about the time when Chuck from Accounting started talking about FF while drinking a Martini wearing Lucky Jeans...that will give you a starting point.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

If the criteria is that you can only pick four, I'd go Seau, Lewis, Gonzalez and TO.

Very interseting; I like your top 4 (they resemble 4 of my possible 5), but I also think Favre is the #1 shoe-in. Why did you leave him off?

In terms of when they played I feel there was more separation between them and their peers than between Favre/Warner and the QBs they played against.