If Tom Brady Never Played Again (1 Viewer)

[David Yudkin]

I was a little taken back by the support for Brady in the other HOF thread, so I felt it merited its own poll.

Basically, the premise is that Brady never plays again for whatever reason. Does he get in the HOF, yes or no. Those are the ONLY options.

Here are all the other current HOF QB that played 1960 or later and the number of years that each played.

George Blanda (26)

Len Dawson (19)

Sonny Jurgensen (18)

Johnny Unitas (18)

Fran Tarkenton (18)

Y.A. Tittle (17)

Dan Marino (17)

Joe Montana (16)

John Elway (16)

Bart Starr (16)

Dan Fouts (15)

Bobby Layne (15)

Steve Young (15)

Terry Bradshaw (14)

Bob Griese (14)

Jim Kelly (11)

Joe Namath (13)

Norm Van Brocklin (12)

Roger Staubach (11)

The player with the fewest years played at any position post-1960 is Gale Sayers with 7.

Although Brady has only 4 years of on-field experience, but technically he will get credit for being rostered for 5 years.

So given all that, do you feel the HOF voters would vote him in if he never played again?

As an aside, Troy Aikman was eligible this year and did not receive enough votes to be inducted.

 

[Chase Stuart]

No chance. Sayers only really played five seasons, but he finished in the top three rushing yards FOUR times and the top four rushing TDs FOUR times. FOUR time Pro Bowler.Brady has exactly ONE top five finish in either passing yards OR passing TDs. He made just ONE Pro Bowl.Post-season success is often the tiebreaker for a lot of players. Nothing Brady has done in the regular season is close to warranting HOF support. Last time I checked, playing with the best defense in the league isn't a reason to go to the HOF.Brady has 13,925 passing yards. Bart Starr is ranked 50th in passing yards, and is over 10,000 yards past Brady.

 

[nerangers]

If his career was cut short due to some sort of injury where he couldn't play, then maybe. If he pulled a Ricky Williams and outright quit, not a chance.BTW what is the least amount of years a player played and got into the HOF? Is anyone in after just four years of play???

 

[David Yudkin]

If his career was cut short due to some sort of injury where he couldn't play, then maybe. If he pulled a Ricky Williams and outright quit, not a chance.

BTW what is the least amount of years a player played and got into the HOF? Is anyone in after just four years of play???

Guys with limited playng time and the years they played . . .Cliff Battles (HB) 1932-1937

Doak Walker (HB) 1950-1955

Wayne Millner (End) 1936-1941, 1945

 

[Phlash]

He made just ONE Pro Bowl.

Wrong. 2001 and 2004.2 Pro-Bowls out of 4 seasons starting isn't bad

He could end up going to 6 Pro Bowls if he plays long enough.

 

[Chase Stuart]

He made just ONE Pro Bowl.

Wrong. 2001 and 2004.2 Pro-Bowls out of 4 seasons starting isn't bad

He could end up going to 6 Pro Bowls if he plays long enough.

Whoops. You're right. Still don't think 2 Pro Bowls is enough to make the HOF. The HOF is for sustained excellence, which Brady just doesn't have if he never plays again.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

He made just ONE Pro Bowl.

Wrong. 2001 and 2004.2 Pro-Bowls out of 4 seasons starting isn't bad

He could end up going to 6 Pro Bowls if he plays long enough.

Whoops. You're right. Still don't think 2 Pro Bowls is enough to make the HOF. The HOF is for sustained excellence, which Brady just doesn't have if he never plays again.

George Blanda, Bob Griese and Len Dawson...... Longetivity = Yes...... Excellence = Not a chance.

 

[GregR_2]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then. Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years. 2 Super Bowls. In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them. Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

 

[David Yudkin]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then. Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years. 2 Super Bowls. In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them. Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

I mentioned him int he other HOF thread. He also had 1,140 rushing yards and 12 rushing TD in 8 post season games. That's 142.5 rushing yards and 1.5 TD per game. (259 rushing yards and 3 TD in 2 Super Bowls).

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I was a little taken back by the support for Brady in the other HOF thread, so I felt it merited its own poll.

Basically, the premise is that Brady never plays again for whatever reason.  Does he get in the HOF, yes or no.  Those are the ONLY options.

Here are all the other current HOF QB that played 1960 or later and the number of years that each played.

George Blanda (26)

Len Dawson (19)

Sonny Jurgensen (18)

Johnny Unitas (18)

Fran Tarkenton (18)

Y.A. Tittle (17)

Dan Marino (17)

Joe Montana (16)

John Elway (16)

Bart Starr (16)

Dan Fouts (15)

Bobby Layne (15) 

Steve Young (15)

Terry Bradshaw (14)

Bob Griese (14)

Jim Kelly (11)

Joe Namath (13)

Norm Van Brocklin (12)

Roger Staubach (11)

The player with the fewest years played at any position post-1960 is Gale Sayers with 7.

Although Brady has only 4 years of on-field experience, but technically he will get credit for being rostered for 5 years.

So given all that, do you feel the HOF voters would vote him in if he never played again?

As an aside, Troy Aikman was eligible this year and did not receive enough votes to be inducted.

If he never played again?It would have to be due to injury or death in which case he still likely gets in IMO.

The guy is just reaching his prime and were he not to play another game he likely gets in on his numbers and sympathy for never having the opportunity to play in his prime.

Yes, longevity is important but I am not sure it warrants the the begin and end all importance you are placing on it.

How many QB's that have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice not made it to the HOF?

How many of them have a lifetime record of 9-0 in the playoffs or 8-0 in overtime.

Career winning percentage?

Now, if what you really mean is he puts up medicocre numbers over the next few years and then peters out then I guess it could be close. But then he would have more in the longevity dept would he not?

It's all moot IMO since he is just reaching his prime and it is (IMO) much more likely than not he will continue put up at decent numbers and accomplishments making him a lock for the HOF.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I was a little taken back by the support for Brady in the other HOF thread, so I felt it merited its own poll.

Basically, the premise is that Brady never plays again for whatever reason. Does he get in the HOF, yes or no. Those are the ONLY options.

Here are all the other current HOF QB that played 1960 or later and the number of years that each played.

George Blanda (26)

Len Dawson (19)

Sonny Jurgensen (18)

Johnny Unitas (18)

Fran Tarkenton (18)

Y.A. Tittle (17)

Dan Marino (17)

Joe Montana (16)

John Elway (16)

Bart Starr (16)

Dan Fouts (15)

Bobby Layne (15)

Steve Young (15)

Terry Bradshaw (14)

Bob Griese (14)

Jim Kelly (11)

Joe Namath (13)

Norm Van Brocklin (12)

Roger Staubach (11)

The player with the fewest years played at any position post-1960 is Gale Sayers with 7.

Although Brady has only 4 years of on-field experience, but technically he will get credit for being rostered for 5 years.

So given all that, do you feel the HOF voters would vote him in if he never played again?

As an aside, Troy Aikman was eligible this year and did not receive enough votes to be inducted.

If he never played again?It would have to be due to injury or death in which case he still likely gets in IMO.

The guy is just reaching his prime and were he not to play another game he likely gets in on his numbers and sympathy for never having the opportunity to play in his prime.

Yes, longevity is important but I am not sure it warrants the the begin and end all importance you are placing on it.

How many QB's that have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice not made it to the HOF?

How many of them have a lifetime record of 9-0 in the playoffs or 8-0 in overtime.

Career winning percentage?

Now, if what you really mean is he puts up medicocre numbers over the next few years and then peters out then I guess it could be close. But then he would have more in the longevity dept would he not?

It's all moot IMO since he is just reaching his prime and it is (IMO) much more likely than not he will continue put up at decent numbers and accomplishments making him a lock for the HOF.

It's definitely all moot....but how many QBs have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice and NOT thrown for 15,000 yards? How many QBs with less than 15,000 yards have made the HOF? It's debatable that Brady has been a top three QB in the league for more than two years. How do you put him in based on that?

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then. Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years. 2 Super Bowls. In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them. Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

 

[Phlash]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then. Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years. 2 Super Bowls. In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them. Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

Thank you

 

[David Yudkin]

How many QB's that have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice not made it to the HOF?

Troy Aikman won 3 SB and a SB MVP and didn't make it in this year--he wasn't even one of the 15 finalists. Aikman was a 6-time Pro Bowler and never really posted gaudy numbers. Aikman has been debated many times and the majority think he will get in and is close to a lock.As for your theoretical question, there have not been many other players that fit the profile, with the closest (although not apples to apples) being Kurt Warner. He was a two-time league MVP (higher on the food chain than SB MVP) and won a Super Bowl MVP. He only won 1 title but went to the SB twice (losing to Brady's Pats). And very few people are tooting Warner's horn for the HOF.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I was a little taken back by the support for Brady in the other HOF thread, so I felt it merited its own poll.

Basically, the premise is that Brady never plays again for whatever reason.  Does he get in the HOF, yes or no.  Those are the ONLY options.

Here are all the other current HOF QB that played 1960 or later and the number of years that each played.

George Blanda (26)

Len Dawson (19)

Sonny Jurgensen (18)

Johnny Unitas (18)

Fran Tarkenton (18)

Y.A. Tittle (17)

Dan Marino (17)

Joe Montana (16)

John Elway (16)

Bart Starr (16)

Dan Fouts (15)

Bobby Layne (15) 

Steve Young (15)

Terry Bradshaw (14)

Bob Griese (14)

Jim Kelly (11)

Joe Namath (13)

Norm Van Brocklin (12)

Roger Staubach (11)

The player with the fewest years played at any position post-1960 is Gale Sayers with 7.

Although Brady has only 4 years of on-field experience, but technically he will get credit for being rostered for 5 years.

So given all that, do you feel the HOF voters would vote him in if he never played again?

As an aside, Troy Aikman was eligible this year and did not receive enough votes to be inducted.

If he never played again?It would have to be due to injury or death in which case he still likely gets in IMO.

The guy is just reaching his prime and were he not to play another game he likely gets in on his numbers and sympathy for never having the opportunity to play in his prime.

Yes, longevity is important but I am not sure it warrants the the begin and end all importance you are placing on it.

How many QB's that have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice not made it to the HOF?

How many of them have a lifetime record of 9-0 in the playoffs or 8-0 in overtime.

Career winning percentage?

Now, if what you really mean is he puts up medicocre numbers over the next few years and then peters out then I guess it could be close. But then he would have more in the longevity dept would he not?

It's all moot IMO since he is just reaching his prime and it is (IMO) much more likely than not he will continue put up at decent numbers and accomplishments making him a lock for the HOF.

It's definitely all moot....but how many QBs have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice and NOT thrown for 15,000 yards? How many QBs with less than 15,000 yards have made the HOF? It's debatable that Brady has been a top three QB in the league for more than two years. How do you put him in based on that?

Based on the numbers 3 SB wins, 2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in the playoffs, 8-0 in overtime, NFL record 21 game winning streak.I could be wrong but IMO those numbers get him in should he not play again.

 

[David Yudkin]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then.  Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years.  2 Super Bowls.  In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them.  Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

So if the Steelers had broken the streak record, winning the Super Bowl and perhaps winning some more games to start next season, would Big Ben merit HOF consideration already even if his passing stats were average to slightly above average? Was Big Ben the reason the Steelers went 15-1?

 

[wrcrew]

How many QB's that have won 3 SB's and been SB MVP twice not made it to the HOF?

Troy Aikman won 3 SB and a SB MVP and didn't make it in this year--he wasn't even one of the 15 finalists. Aikman was a 6-time Pro Bowler and never really posted gaudy numbers. Aikman has been debated many times and the majority think he will get in and is close to a lock.As for your theoretical question, there have not been many other players that fit the profile, with the closest (although not apples to apples) being Kurt Warner. He was a two-time league MVP (higher on the food chain than SB MVP) and won a Super Bowl MVP. He only won 1 title but went to the SB twice (losing to Brady's Pats). And very few people are tooting Warner's horn for the HOF.

Aikman isn't eligible until next year. 2006 will be his first year of eligibility and he is a lock for 1st year induction.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then.  Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years.  2 Super Bowls.  In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them.   Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

So if the Steelers had broken the streak record, winning the Super Bowl and perhaps winning some more games to start next season, would Big Ben merit HOF consideration already even if his passing stats were average to slightly above average? Was Big Ben the reason the Steelers went 15-1?

Well Bens playoff record is already 1-1 but if he wins the next 8 or 9 and then 3 SB's and 2 SB mvps then yeah maybe.

 

[code]

Aikman isn't eligible until next year. 2006 will be his first year of eligibility and he is a lock for 1st year induction.

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement...?RELEASE_ID=152

 

[coolnerd]

3 SBwins with 2 SB MVPs = no brain HOF for me...He could never play again or lead his team to two 0-16 years, does not matter.

 

[Jason Wood]

If Brady never played again because of injury he would be a STONE COLD LOCK for the Hall of Fame. Honestly, I'm stunned so many folks don't realize that.

 

[David Yudkin]

Aikman isn't eligible until next year. 2006 will be his first year of eligibility and he is a lock for 1st year induction.

I confused Irvin with Aikman . . . Irvin was the one that didn't get in.

 

[Chase Stuart]

If Brady never played again because of injury he would be a STONE COLD LOCK for the Hall of Fame. Honestly, I'm stunned so many folks don't realize that.

Jason, there's no way Brady would be a stone cold lock. He certainly wouldn't deserve to get in, and I highly doubt he would. There's no predent for a two-time Pro Bowl QB to make the HOF.

 

[GregR_2]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then. Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years. 2 Super Bowls. In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them. Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

Great. How about answering the question though? They are apples and oranges to you, but that doesn't mean you can't address whether Terrell's arguably being the best player at position, and being the key factor in two SB victories, makes his accompishments Hall worthy when you're saying a QB's are when he has 3 SB victories, wasn't amongst the top 3 at his position in any year he's played, and was the second most important (or third even when they had Dillon) reason they won.

 

[CalBear]

Another dimension to this thread; if Brady never plays another game, he'll be on the HOF ballot along with everyone who retires this year; Tim Brown, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith. They would put his accomplishments (nice, but small) in perspective.

 

[bostonfred]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then.  Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years.  2 Super Bowls.  In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them.   Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

So if the Steelers had broken the streak record, winning the Super Bowl and perhaps winning some more games to start next season, would Big Ben merit HOF consideration already even if his passing stats were average to slightly above average? Was Big Ben the reason the Steelers went 15-1?

Well Bens playoff record is already 1-1 but if he wins the next 8 or 9 and then 3 SB's and 2 SB mvps then yeah maybe.

Exactly. The fact that the closest comparison you can make to Brady's current accomplishments is Roethlisberger, and he's already lost his chance to match one of Brady's most notable accomplishments (undefeated in the playoffs) tells you how dominant Brady has been. What T.D. did was rare. What Brady has done is unprecedented.

In a four year stretch, Davis helped his team to 47 regular season wins and a 7-1 postseason record. The Boncos made the playoffs three times, and T.D. helped them win two Superbowls, while leading the league in TDs twice, and leading the league in rushing once. In Brady's four year stretch, he's led his team to 48 regular season wins and a 9-0 postseason record, while winning three Superbowls and leading the league in TDs during the other.

There's only been a handful of running backs who have topped 2000 yards, and Davis is one of them. Brady orchestrated a 21 game win streak, the longest in NFL history. Nobody's ever done that before.

Davis he will always be loved by Denver fans for helping a hall of fame quarterback get two Superbowl rings and go out on top. Brady did it without any sure hall of famer players alongside him.

Many people say Davis is close, but won't make the Hall of Fame. What Brady's done is a little better. It's entirely consistent for Brady to just barely make it with Davis just barely missing it.

 

[Chase Stuart]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then. Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years. 2 Super Bowls. In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them. Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

So if the Steelers had broken the streak record, winning the Super Bowl and perhaps winning some more games to start next season, would Big Ben merit HOF consideration already even if his passing stats were average to slightly above average? Was Big Ben the reason the Steelers went 15-1?

Well Bens playoff record is already 1-1 but if he wins the next 8 or 9 and then 3 SB's and 2 SB mvps then yeah maybe.

Exactly. The fact that the closest comparison you can make to Brady's current accomplishments is Roethlisberger, and he's already lost his chance to match one of Brady's most notable accomplishments (undefeated in the playoffs) tells you how dominant Brady has been. What T.D. did was rare. What Brady has done is unprecedented.

In a four year stretch, Davis helped his team to 47 regular season wins and a 7-1 postseason record. The Boncos made the playoffs three times, and T.D. helped them win two Superbowls, while leading the league in TDs twice, and leading the league in rushing once. In Brady's four year stretch, he's led his team to 48 regular season wins and a 9-0 postseason record, while winning three Superbowls and leading the league in TDs during the other.

There's only been a handful of running backs who have topped 2000 yards, and Davis is one of them. Brady orchestrated a 21 game win streak, the longest in NFL history. Nobody's ever done that before.

Davis he will always be loved by Denver fans for helping a hall of fame quarterback get two Superbowl rings and go out on top. Brady did it without any sure hall of famer players alongside him.

Many people say Davis is close, but won't make the Hall of Fame. What Brady's done is a little better. It's entirely consistent for Brady to just barely make it with Davis just barely missing it.

Both Davis and Brady were products of their system (although many great players were and still are). However, there's no doubt in my mind that Davis was more impressive during the regular season than Brady was.

 

[MarshallRob]

George Blanda, Bob Griese and Len Dawson...... Longetivity = Yes...... Excellence = Not a chance.

Blanda is in at least as much for his placekicking as for his quarterbacking, and Dawson was easily the best QB the AFL ever had. Griese's a tougher case.I'm not arguing against Brady but I don't see how any QB can be a "lock" if he only played 4-5 seasons, especially where the shortest Hall of Fame career to date for a QB has been 11 seasons. I do see a distinction between RB's and QB's as the average career for the former is much shorter than the latter and a Terrell Davis or a Gale Sayers should rightfully be cut more slack for a short career.

 

[Chase Stuart]

George Blanda, Bob Griese and Len Dawson...... Longetivity = Yes...... Excellence = Not a chance.

Blanda is in at least as much for his placekicking as for his quarterbacking, and Dawson was easily the best QB the AFL ever had. Griese's a tougher case.I'm not arguing against Brady but I don't see how any QB can be a "lock" if he only played 4-5 seasons, especially where the shortest Hall of Fame career to date for a QB has been 11 seasons. I do see a distinction between RB's and QB's as the average career for the former is much shorter than the latter and a Terrell Davis or a Gale Sayers should rightfully be cut more slack for a short career.

Griese made 8 pro bowls...Brady made two. Griese made the Pro Bowl each of the first six seasons in the NFL in which he played ten games.

 

[UncleZen]

I think a true HOF'er would make a difference on any team they played on. I think Brady is the product of the system in NE and would not have the same impact on a different team.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Peyton Manning has more than TWICE as many passing yards and TWICE as many passing touchdowns in less than twice as many career games. I'm not so sure Manning is a lock if he never plays another game, so I have a hard time putting Brady even close to that. Brady's career statistics don't compare favorably to even the worst QBs in the HOF.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

Peyton Manning has more than TWICE as many passing yards and TWICE as many passing touchdowns in less than twice as many career games. I'm not so sure Manning is a lock if he never plays another game, so I have a hard time putting Brady even close to that. Brady's career statistics don't compare favorably to even the worst QBs in the HOF.

Manning doesn't have any rings and chokes in big games.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Let me repeat....Tom Brady far far away from the top fifty in every major passing category. The SB winning QBs since he entered the league include Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady and Brad Johnson. I think we're placing way too much weight on post-season success and not enough on the heart of the matter, how well they play year after year.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

Chase I don't think you're putting enough emphasis on Mannings garbage play in the post season. :X

 

[coolnerd]

Herm Edwards on Brady (remember he plays against the guy two times a year)

"New York Jets coach Herman Edwards says he's confused over the apparent lack of understanding about what the Patriots have at quarterback in Tom Brady.

"You know going into a game that there is not a lot of room for error," Edwards said. "The key is, their quarterback is a very underrated quarterback in my estimation. The guy is the best quarterback in the playoffs.

"When he has to make a throw, he makes the throw. They've got a quarterback who's going to the Hall of Fame and a coach who's going to the Hall. They've got the best quarterback in the playoffs. Just watch him. They play in a close game, they don't flinch. They know in their minds if they play 10 games close, they'll win nine.

"As an opponent, late in the game, you know Brady is going to make the play so you better make one. He has a calmness about himself. The game is always at one speed for him. First quarter. Fourth quarter. He doesn't panic. He waits and he waits and eventually he's going to get you."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/arti...g_stage?mode=PF

 

[David Yudkin]

Let me repeat....Tom Brady far far away from the top fifty in every major passing category. The SB winning QBs since he entered the league include Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady and Brad Johnson. I think we're placing way too much weight on post-season success and not enough on the heart of the matter, how well they play year after year.

Since I KNOW Chase loves when I post tons of stats . . .In looking at Terrell Davis' first 4 years, here are the rushing totals for top RB over those 4 years:

Barry Sanders 6547 37

Terrell Davis 6413 56

Emmitt Smith 5383 54

Curtis Martin 5086 40

Ricky Watters 5033 40

Jerome Bettis 4918 24

Adrian Murrell 4172 22

Marshall Faulk 4038 31

Terry Allen 4086 37

Jamal Anderson 4064 27

Eddie George 4061 19 (only 3 years)

So Davis ranked #2 in rushing yards and #1 in rushing TD.

Now let's look at Brady in his first 4 years vs the compiled numbers of notable QB over that same stretch:

Peyton Manning 17155 131

Trent Green 16103 94

Brett Favre 15028 121

Aaron Brooks 14760 98

Tom Brady 13919 97

Jake Plummer 12896 78

Donovan McNabb 12613 89

Matt Hasselbeck 12324 70

He ranked 5th in passing yards and passing TD (but a long way from the top). He actually was behind Aaron Brooks in both categories. Where's the contingency screaming for Brooks for the HOF?

Yes, I know Brady's biggest claim to fame is leading the Pats to 3 SB wins, so his regular season stats won't matter . . .

 

[Chase Stuart]

Let me repeat....Tom Brady far far away from the top fifty in every major passing category. The SB winning QBs since he entered the league include Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady and Brad Johnson. I think we're placing way too much weight on post-season success and not enough on the heart of the matter, how well they play year after year.

Since I KNOW Chase loves when I post tons of stats . . .In looking at Terrell Davis' first 4 years, here are the rushing totals for top RB over those 4 years:

Barry Sanders 6547 37

Terrell Davis 6413 56

Emmitt Smith 5383 54

Curtis Martin 5086 40

Ricky Watters 5033 40

Jerome Bettis 4918 24

Adrian Murrell 4172 22

Marshall Faulk 4038 31

Terry Allen 4086 37

Jamal Anderson 4064 27

Eddie George 4061 19 (only 3 years)

So Davis ranked #2 in rushing yards and #1 in rushing TD.

Now let's look at Brady in his first 4 years vs the compiled numbers of notable QB over that same stretch:

Peyton Manning 17155 131

Trent Green 16103 94

Brett Favre 15028 121

Aaron Brooks 14760 98

Tom Brady 13919 97

Jake Plummer 12896 78

Donovan McNabb 12613 89

Matt Hasselbeck 12324 70

He ranked 5th in passing yards and passing TD (but a long way from the top). He actually was behind Aaron Brooks in both categories. Where's the contingency screaming for Brooks for the HOF?

Yes, I know Brady's biggest claim to fame his leading the Pats to 3 SB wins, so his regular season stats won't matter . . .

 

[Chase Stuart]

Herm Edwards on Brady (remember he plays against the guy two times a year)

"New York Jets coach Herman Edwards says he's confused over the apparent lack of understanding about what the Patriots have at quarterback in Tom Brady.

"You know going into a game that there is not a lot of room for error," Edwards said. "The key is, their quarterback is a very underrated quarterback in my estimation. The guy is the best quarterback in the playoffs.

"When he has to make a throw, he makes the throw. They've got a quarterback who's going to the Hall of Fame and a coach who's going to the Hall. They've got the best quarterback in the playoffs. Just watch him. They play in a close game, they don't flinch. They know in their minds if they play 10 games close, they'll win nine.

"As an opponent, late in the game, you know Brady is going to make the play so you better make one. He has a calmness about himself. The game is always at one speed for him. First quarter. Fourth quarter. He doesn't panic. He waits and he waits and eventually he's going to get you."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/arti...g_stage?mode=PF

I think Brady will one day make the HOF. But he's not there yet.I don't think Brady's been the best QB in the league the past four years. Even if he was, I don't think that's enough to put him in the HOF. HOFs are supposed to be the best for many years.

 

[MarshallRob]

George Blanda, Bob Griese and Len Dawson...... Longetivity = Yes...... Excellence = Not a chance. 

Blanda is in at least as much for his placekicking as for his quarterbacking, and Dawson was easily the best QB the AFL ever had. Griese's a tougher case.I'm not arguing against Brady but I don't see how any QB can be a "lock" if he only played 4-5 seasons, especially where the shortest Hall of Fame career to date for a QB has been 11 seasons. I do see a distinction between RB's and QB's as the average career for the former is much shorter than the latter and a Terrell Davis or a Gale Sayers should rightfully be cut more slack for a short career.

Griese made 8 pro bowls...Brady made two. Griese made the Pro Bowl each of the first six seasons in the NFL in which he played ten games.

Griese also won an MVP award in 1977, a non-Super Bowl season for him. You don't have to convince me. He was my favorite player as a kid.

 

[Chase Stuart]

What's the highest Brady has ever finished in the MVP voting? (Serious question, not being sarcastic).This year no one was close to Manning, but has Brady ever garnered MVP votes? I know Vick got the lone non-Manning vote this year.

 

[David Yudkin]

What's the highest Brady has ever finished in the MVP voting? (Serious question, not being sarcastic).

This year no one was close to Manning, but has Brady ever garnered MVP votes? I know Vick got the lone non-Manning vote this year.

2003Peyton Manning 16

Steve McNair 16

Tom Brady 8

Jamal Lewis 5

Priest Holmes 3

Ray Lewis 2

 

[coolnerd]

Herm Edwards on Brady (remember he plays against the guy two times a year)

"New York Jets coach Herman Edwards says he's confused over the apparent lack of understanding about what the Patriots have at quarterback in Tom Brady.

"You know going into a game that there is not a lot of room for error," Edwards said. "The key is, their quarterback is a very underrated quarterback in my estimation. The guy is the best quarterback in the playoffs.

"When he has to make a throw, he makes the throw. They've got a quarterback who's going to the Hall of Fame and a coach who's going to the Hall. They've got the best quarterback in the playoffs. Just watch him. They play in a close game, they don't flinch. They know in their minds if they play 10 games close, they'll win nine.

"As an opponent, late in the game, you know Brady is going to make the play so you better make one. He has a calmness about himself. The game is always at one speed for him. First quarter. Fourth quarter. He doesn't panic. He waits and he waits and eventually he's going to get you."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/arti...g_stage?mode=PF

I think Brady will one day make the HOF. But he's not there yet.I don't think Brady's been the best QB in the league the past four years. Even if he was, I don't think that's enough to put him in the HOF. HOFs are supposed to be the best for many years.

Herman Edwards is speaking directly to your perception of Brady. Winning trumps the perception and all statistics everyone is pulling out. That is what he is saying. Winning, making the plays when it counts is why Brady is a Hall of Famer.

 

[Jason Wood]

Let me repeat....Tom Brady far far away from the top fifty in every major passing category. The SB winning QBs since he entered the league include Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady and Brad Johnson. I think we're placing way too much weight on post-season success and not enough on the heart of the matter, how well they play year after year.

That's where we agree to disagree. THREE SUPER BOWLS, not one. And he was MVP of two of them. Chase, honestly I think you're letting your Jets fanboy blinders cloud your judgment here. QBs are recognized first and foremost for whether they win the big one (which is why Montana is on everyone's short list for best QB ever while Marino, despite his statistical accomplishments has plenty of detractors), and Brady has done it not once, not twice, but three times. Tom Brady could play his way OUT of the HOF over the next leg of his career, but if he didn't play another down, he would get in without any worry.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Brady is a lock. If BB is the next Lombardi certainly Brady is his Bart Starr. Brady is the face of the Pats "Dynasty". Aikman is likely a HOF lock and Brady had much less to work with on O than Aikman did.

 

[radballs.]

No way he's in if he didn't play another down. Needs to play much longer despite the Super Bowl wins and MVPs.

 

[David Yudkin]

Is winning a title imperative for HOF induction? Of the 16 Super Bowl era QB already inducted, 6 never won a Super Bowl.George Blanda (26) NoneLen Dawson (19) OneSonny Jurgensen (18) NoneJohnny Unitas (18) OneFran Tarkenton (18) NoneY.A. Tittle (17) Not in Super Bowl eraDan Marino (17) NoneJoe Montana (16) FourJohn Elway (16) TwoBart Starr (16) TwoDan Fouts (15) NoneBobby Layne (15) Not in Super Bowl eraSteve Young (15) Three (One as a starter)Terry Bradshaw (14) FourBob Griese (14) TwoJim Kelly (11) NoneJoe Namath (13) OneNorm Van Brocklin (12) Not in Super Bowl eraRoger Staubach (11) Two

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Only way Brady gets in if he never played a game would be tragic death. Any other circumstance, I say no.

 

[bostonfred]

For those who say he's in should he hypothetically be done after 4 years, I would be interested in hearing a discussion of whether Terrell Davis should similarly be in then.  Played a partial 1995 season and then 3 full years.  2 Super Bowls.  In those 3 years he was 1st, 2nd or 3rd in every major category (rushes, rushing yards, rushing TDs, yards from scrimmage, rush/receiving TDs).

And he was the dominant force that got his team to the two Super Bowls he won, where as Brady was the 2nd most important reason his team got there and won them.  Only thing I see in Brady's favor in the comparison is that he has 3 Super Bowls, TD has 2.

RB's and QB's = Apples and Oranges.Fair or not QB's get more credit for W's & L's than RB's do.

3 SB wins in 4 years and he lead the league in TD passes the 1 year he didn't win the SB.

2 SB MVP's, 9-0 in playoffs, 8-0 in overtime.

Longest winning streak in league history.

So if the Steelers had broken the streak record, winning the Super Bowl and perhaps winning some more games to start next season, would Big Ben merit HOF consideration already even if his passing stats were average to slightly above average? Was Big Ben the reason the Steelers went 15-1?

Well Bens playoff record is already 1-1 but if he wins the next 8 or 9 and then 3 SB's and 2 SB mvps then yeah maybe.

Exactly. The fact that the closest comparison you can make to Brady's current accomplishments is Roethlisberger, and he's already lost his chance to match one of Brady's most notable accomplishments (undefeated in the playoffs) tells you how dominant Brady has been. What T.D. did was rare. What Brady has done is unprecedented.

In a four year stretch, Davis helped his team to 47 regular season wins and a 7-1 postseason record. The Boncos made the playoffs three times, and T.D. helped them win two Superbowls, while leading the league in TDs twice, and leading the league in rushing once. In Brady's four year stretch, he's led his team to 48 regular season wins and a 9-0 postseason record, while winning three Superbowls and leading the league in TDs during the other.

There's only been a handful of running backs who have topped 2000 yards, and Davis is one of them. Brady orchestrated a 21 game win streak, the longest in NFL history. Nobody's ever done that before.

Davis he will always be loved by Denver fans for helping a hall of fame quarterback get two Superbowl rings and go out on top. Brady did it without any sure hall of famer players alongside him.

Many people say Davis is close, but won't make the Hall of Fame. What Brady's done is a little better. It's entirely consistent for Brady to just barely make it with Davis just barely missing it.

Both Davis and Brady were products of their system (although many great players were and still are). However, there's no doubt in my mind that Davis was more impressive during the regular season than Brady was.

I wasn't aware it was called the Hall of Regular Season Accomplishments. If it were, I agree, Brady will probably never receive the prestigious "Manning Award". But the Hall of Fame is about the dominant layers of their era. Nobody has ever been as dominant as Brady's Patriots. Never. Yes, other players have had more yards and TDs, but he's been the driving force on a team with no other sure hall of famer players that many will call a dynasty.

 

[Jason Wood]

Is winning a title imperative for HOF induction?  Of the 16 Super Bowl era QB already inducted, 6 never won a Super Bowl.

Bob Waterfield 2 NFL titles

Otto Graham  7 titles (3 NFL)

George Blanda (26) None Won 2 AFL titles (pre SB Era)

Len Dawson (19) One

Sonny Jurgensen (18) None

Johnny Unitas (18) One

Fran Tarkenton (18) None 3 SB appearances

Y.A. Tittle (17) Not in Super Bowl era

Dan Marino (17) None

Joe Montana (16) Four

John Elway (16) Two

Bart Starr (16) Two

Dan Fouts (15) None

Bobby Layne (15) Not in Super Bowl era 3 NFL titles

Steve Young (15) Three (One as a starter)

Terry Bradshaw (14) Four

Bob Griese (14) Two

Jim Kelly (11) None 4 SB appearances

Joe Namath (13) One

Norm Van Brocklin (12) Not in Super Bowl era 1 NFL title

Roger Staubach (11) Two

David,You're definitely not painting the whole picture here. First of all, no one says it's mandatory to have won a title to get HOF consideration, but it's darn sure a key criteria for many inductees at the QB position. The guys who didn't win a title either a) appeared in a bunch of title games (e.g., Kelly, Tarkenton) or b) absolutely lit up the statistical record book (e.g., Marino, Fouts).

But another issue i have with how you presented the data is excluding the pre-SB QBs from the discussion. Of the 21 current QBs in the HOF (of which you excluded Otto Graham, arguably the best ever, and Bob Waterfield), 15 of the 21 won at least one NFL title. Two others, Jim Kelly and Fran Tarkenton, appeared in 7 more between them. Winning titles is a HUGE factor in a QB's legacy.

 

[Phlash]

What's the highest Brady has ever finished in the MVP voting? (Serious question, not being sarcastic).

This year no one was close to Manning, but has Brady ever garnered MVP votes? I know Vick got the lone non-Manning vote this year.

The year Peyton and Steve McNair won it, he was 3rd in MVP voting I believe behind those two.