"I'm Done Making My Kid's Childhood Magical" (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

I'm pretty sure that in seven seasons of baseball my parents didn't attend a single practice and there were lots of games no one was at either. When we were done I took 45 cents to the mechanics shop next door, spent 35 on a Mr. Pibb and 10 on a call for someone to come pick me up. Good times.

When I was in 5th grade and started playing tennis, I used to catch the bus after school to the tennis complex. Of course, it was ~ 5-10 minute walk from where the bus dropped me off, but I was able to navigate it. I stayed there and played 3-4 hours each day until I was picked up. I mostly had to just look out for her car. But, if I needed to call, I would actually place a collect call with some made up funny sounding name, my mother would reject the collect call, and then knew she had to pick me up (just had to wait the 10-15 minutes to get there). If I ever truly needed something, I would use my actual name (which never actually was needed).

As for baseball, I remember she would come to all the games and I was the "lucky" one whose parent did that. A lot of others did not.

It really is a completely different time and attitude nowadays.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

People are talking about different things in here, probably because the original piece was a bit of a mess.

Baking or buying a ridiculous birthday cake for your one-year-old's birthday party, so you can post it on facebook, seems stupid to me. Playing with your kids doesn't. The parents that make the giant cake aren't necessarily the same parents that play with their kids.

Yeah. It seems that a bunch of not entirely related things are being complained of. Some complaints seem valid with respect to parents who seem to use kids as accessories.

I'm not sure that extends to taking a family vacation.

The sports team stuff is interesting to me considering how much I love soccer. Chances are my kid will be at best an average athlete like I was, so I won't need to worry about it. But if the kid is good, do I have to shuttle him all up down the freakin Eastern Seaboard or worry that I'm screwing him out of a scholarship? I hope not.

 

[El Floppo]

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[[icon]]

Seems like helecopter parenting concept is hitting too close to home for a few folks here.

NOBODY is saying you shouldn't spend time with your kids... I think she's just making the valid point that you don't have to have outlandish activities planned every step of the way. Kids don't need a loaded itinerary. Definitely see examples of this among friends. Also the crazy kids "moments/trips/parties" on social media has also lead to a new form of "keeping up with the joneses" that is, IMO, silly.

Growing up my folks would just say "go outside and play" and we would... and I loved it. Like the author I hardly remember much of the more expensive vacations we took... most of my favorite memories of childhood are from simply playing with matchbox cars in our room, or playing catch or exploring in the yard with my brother or cousins/neighbors.

Anyways.. seems like some folks may be missing the real point of the article.

 

[AcerFC]

I think the sports thing has legs if the kids dont want to do it. I have two kids who love the travel sports they play. What should I be doing instead of taking them to, and watching them play their sport.

Do you resent them for it? Is it a financial hardship? It's your life. Do whatever you want but putting your kids on a pedestal and being their chauffeur can be a problem for them later on.

why would I resent them for enjoying a sport. Hockey sucks financially but its not a hardship. Im not sure its putting them on a pedestal. They cant drive so I take them.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

brohans get your kids outside take them to a nature preserve and wade around in a river with them get them muddy have them chase frogs and catch lightnin bugs and bait a hook and catch a bluegill just do whatever you can to get them out of the basement and away from the atari just take my word for this they will grow up better people and it all it takes is you walking along with them and acting surprised when they find a clam shell in a lake or something hell by the time they are ten they will be laying face down on a pier looking over the edge at fish and you will be one hell of a parent take that to the bank brochachos

Seems like as good a segue / hijack opportunity as any. We let our 9-year old walk down to one of our county's nature centers by himself. It's less than 1/4 of a mile and he doesn't have to cross any streets. They folks at the center know him well and we've both checked in to be sure he's behaving, but for the most part he flies solo and it's basically a chance to learn more about all the local wildlife (which we also see around the house a lot) and get to do some fun stuff in the woods/around the pond.

People act like we've taped a "please kidnap me" sign to his chest and chained him to a tree out front. Are we crazy?

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

We had a thread on this board years ago about some kid on a poster's son's high school team whose father never came to games. I was pretty much the only one who said that when I played high school football that I didn't give a #### if my parents saw me play. So maybe attitudes are swinging around the other way now.

 

[AcerFC]

Seems like helecopter parenting concept is hitting too close to home for a few folks here.

NOBODY is saying you shouldn't spend time with your kids... I think she's just making the valid point that you don't have to have outlandish activities planned every step of the way. Kids don't need a loaded itinerary. Definitely see examples of this among friends. Also the crazy kids "moments/trips/parties" on social media has also lead to a new form of "keeping up with the joneses" that is, IMO, silly.

Growing up my folks would just say "go outside and play" and we would... and I loved it. Like the author I hardly remember much of the more expensive vacations we took... most of my favorite memories of childhood are from simply playing with matchbox cars in our room, or playing catch or exploring in the yard with my brother or cousins/neighbors.

Anyways.. seems like some folks may be missing the real point of the article.

I get it, I just disagree

 

[BobbyLayne]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

1967-1970 my parents took four major (for them) vacations - two to Las Vegas, one to Mexico, one to Europe. We got dumped with Aunts or Grandma. They used to throw a lot of pool parties, too. They had an eclectic and interesting group of friends. We were kind of aware our parents weren't like other parents - less supervision, lots of booze - but I can't say it bothered us. We spent summers at a lake cottage boating and swimming, snowmobiles in the winter. Hell, one year dad brought home an ice boat (3 skis and a big ### fan - neighbors hated how loud it was, that didn't last long). Anyway, they lived their lives, did a reasonably good job making sure we didn't get killed, and made sure we plenty of toys (dirt bikes, tanning bed for the girls, whatever). Around 1971 Disney World opened - the four of us kids were 15, 14, 12 and 9 - and our "family vacations" morphed from camping/RVing (their jaunts ended) to the need to be entertained. Went to Orlando first four years it was open (from Michigan). Used to be we had the family car (station wagon) and a fun car for them - Mustang, Corvette. Pretty soon the fun cars stopped, though dad did start driving pickups (he was an entrepreneur). We also left the little fresh water lake and became Lake Michigan boaters. Totally different vibe - instead of hanging around the lake catching turtles with our summer friends, we were at a marina every weekend, meeting spoiled rich kids, playing shuffleboard or mini-golf or taking the houseboat for a cruise. In other words, we stopped making our own fun, and our parents became entertainment directors.

They got divorced in 1974. Probably just a coincidence.

Sounds like your childhood was ####### awesome.

It did lend itself to a lot of experimentation. After the divorce, they both drank heavily (out with friends), so my the older sibs starting throwing beer parties. Teenagers, beer, weed, hormones, you know where that's going. They eventually toned it down, and we managed to get through school without becoming criminals.

The younger days were pretty carefree. They provided well for us, but if you sat around moping you got a quick "You're bored? Then you must be boring. Nobody likes boring people, get out of here and go find something fun to do." Built a backstop out of chicken wire and laid out a half assed diamond one year, another year we hauled about 100 feet of hose into the back yard and built a motor cross track (it was about 500 feet from the house to the woods, open field).

I do distinctly remember my parents were lively and their friends were a riot. Really kind and generous. And we all know it doesn't really matter what you say to your kids, just remember they are always watching and observing. What I saw over and over again were two people who knew how to have a good time.

 

[Ned]

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

Anything under 5 is too young for a worthwhile Disney trip IMO. I'd think the 6-12 age range is prob perfect for that trip.

This is a ridiculous statement imo

My wife and I agree with him. We want the kids to be old enough to remember the trip since it is such a big deal for kids. We plan on it being a one time trip, so why not wait so it can be a good memory for them?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

We had a thread on this board years ago about some kid on a poster's son's high school team whose father never came to games. I was pretty much the only one who said that when I played high school football that I didn't give a #### if my parents saw me play. So maybe attitudes are swinging around the other way now.

I don't think attitudes have changed much. Pretty much every kid on my rec soccer team has at least one parent there to watch every game.

 

[gianmarco]

People are talking about different things in here, probably because the original piece was a bit of a mess.

Baking or buying a ridiculous birthday cake for your one-year-old's birthday party, so you can post it on facebook, seems stupid to me. Playing with your kids doesn't. The parents that make the giant cake aren't necessarily the same parents that play with their kids.

Yeah. It seems that a bunch of not entirely related things are being complained of. Some complaints seem valid with respect to parents who seem to use kids as accessories.

I'm not sure that extends to taking a family vacation.

The sports team stuff is interesting to me considering how much I love soccer. Chances are my kid will be at best an average athlete like I was, so I won't need to worry about it. But if the kid is good, do I have to shuttle him all up down the freakin Eastern Seaboard or worry that I'm screwing him out of a scholarship? I hope not.

The sports thing is one part of it. Family vacation is another (and I agree with you that I don't think it extends). But then there's the other everyday stuff.

My son and his classmates just had their 2 weeks of winter vacation from school. I know that not an insignificant # of kids were out doing daily things with their parents like one day ice skating and another day the science center and another day something else, etc. We see it on Facebook. There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself even when I was available and not working. There are parents out there who feel they aren't being a good enough parent if they're home while they're kids are home and not actively spending time with them.

 

[Brony]

brohans get your kids outside take them to a nature preserve and wade around in a river with them get them muddy have them chase frogs and catch lightnin bugs and bait a hook and catch a bluegill just do whatever you can to get them out of the basement and away from the atari just take my word for this they will grow up better people and it all it takes is you walking along with them and acting surprised when they find a clam shell in a lake or something hell by the time they are ten they will be laying face down on a pier looking over the edge at fish and you will be one hell of a parent take that to the bank brochachos

Seems like as good a segue / hijack opportunity as any. We let our 9-year old walk down to one of our county's nature centers by himself. It's less than 1/4 of a mile and he doesn't have to cross any streets. They folks at the center know him well and we've both checked in to be sure he's behaving, but for the most part he flies solo.

People act like we've taped a "please kidnap me" sign to his chest and chained him to a tree out front. Are we crazy?

My wife was out of town one weekend and I was in charge of the kids. She freaked when she found out I went for a 30 minute walk at 5:30 in the morning while the kids (8 and 6) were sleeping. 'what if there was a fire?!!?'

 

[Zow]

at the notion that parenting has substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

I'd like to think the above is true. There are still good parents out there. Hopefully I'm closer to being one of them then not.

The article linked seems to suggest that spending too much time entertaining your kid is bad parenting.

Even if true, that in of itself would suggest that today's parenting techniques are just fine if a legitimate gripe is that parents are parenting too much.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

Anything under 5 is too young for a worthwhile Disney trip IMO. I'd think the 6-12 age range is prob perfect for that trip.

This is a ridiculous statement imo

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

Anything under 5 is too young for a worthwhile Disney trip IMO. I'd think the 6-12 age range is prob perfect for that trip.

that's debatable...just took my 4 and 2 yo and they had an absolute blast.

I had originally thought the same thing.

I have no doubt your children had a blast, none at all... By the same token, I'm fairly confident my 2 year old had an equal amount of fun at a birthday party, a trip to Toys R Us, and Chuckee Cheese without costing $5-$10k. Money aside, I'd have no problem spending it if I knew my kids would remember any of it, but for a young child those memories fade quickly.

I was at Disney 3x growing up... I was 3, 7, and 11. While I looked like I was having a blast in my pics from being 3, I couldn't tell you a single thing about that trip, very little about the one from when I was 7, but I have held on to a bunch from our final family trip there when I was 11.

I'd rather save the $$$$ and do more trips as the kids get older. Just my .

 

[Ned]

I like spending time with my kids and do it of my own free will. Author sounds like a jealous whiny #####.

Fixed.

 

[[icon]]

I have no doubt your children had a blast, none at all... By the same token, I'm fairly confident my 2 year old had an equal amount of fun at a birthday party, a trip to Toys R Us, and Chuckee Cheese without costing $5-$10k. Money aside, I'd have no problem spending it if I knew my kids would remember any of it, but for a young child those memories fade quickly.

I was at Disney 3x growing up... I was 3, 7, and 11. While I looked like I was having a blast in my pics from being 3, I couldn't tell you a single thing about that trip, very little about the one from when I was 7, but I have held on to a bunch from our final family trip there when I was 11.

I'd rather save the $$$$ and do more trips as the kids get older. Just my .

Agreeing here.... I don't remember a whole lot from before 5 or 6 years old...

...Then again I don't remember a whole lot from college either, so....

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself.

What sort of stuff did he do when he was just being a kid and entertaining himself? My kids are awesome but if I don't make them do stuff they'll be really sedentary. They need to do some sort of physical activity.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

People are talking about different things in here, probably because the original piece was a bit of a mess.

Baking or buying a ridiculous birthday cake for your one-year-old's birthday party, so you can post it on facebook, seems stupid to me. Playing with your kids doesn't. The parents that make the giant cake aren't necessarily the same parents that play with their kids.

Yeah. It seems that a bunch of not entirely related things are being complained of. Some complaints seem valid with respect to parents who seem to use kids as accessories.

I'm not sure that extends to taking a family vacation.

The sports team stuff is interesting to me considering how much I love soccer. Chances are my kid will be at best an average athlete like I was, so I won't need to worry about it. But if the kid is good, do I have to shuttle him all up down the freakin Eastern Seaboard or worry that I'm screwing him out of a scholarship? I hope not.

The sports thing is one part of it. Family vacation is another (and I agree with you that I don't think it extends). But then there's the other everyday stuff.

My son and his classmates just had their 2 weeks of winter vacation from school. I know that not an insignificant # of kids were out doing daily things with their parents like one day ice skating and another day the science center and another day something else, etc. We see it on Facebook. There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself.

Yeah. I'm terrified of being a hypocrite about this stuff, but I feel (without any evidence whatsoever) that its important for kids to be able to entertain (and solve problems) by themselves. Its a policy of what I've called (while ripping off Pat Moynihan) "benign neglect."

 

[Dentist]

But you know what, a lot of people are still self absorbed facebook addicts who don't do it for the kids, but for the "likes."

Early leader for Post of the Year.

Right, these people aren't doing anything for their kids. It's so they can be recognized by their friends as being the "better" parent and getting the "OMG's" and "likes" on instagram and facebook.

I don't give a crap about that stuff.. but my wife will openly admit that 1/3rd of the pleasure she derives from going on a sweet caribbean vacation is being able to post the photos online and basically letting people know life is good for her.

Social media has allowed people to frame their lives to their public and craft the image they want to portray. Whether it be the picture of their vacation, new car, food, fabulous experience.. etc... people are all about highlighting the good parts of their life to make sure other people think their life is better than it often times is.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Well, I know I grew up with a big backyard, a quiet street, friends, books, and family. I had room to grow and dream. I had a sense of safety, promise, and love, and a lot of great memories. I didn't get structured activities or contrived kids' parties and at an early age (very) I recall thinking they were ridiculous. I guess I feel the same way today.

 

[gianmarco]

There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself.

What sort of stuff did he do when he was just being a kid and entertaining himself? My kids are awesome but if I don't make them do stuff they'll be really sedentary. They need to do some sort of physical activity.

He got new books for Christmas. He went outside to play with his new basketball hoop. He plays with his Legos that he still loves. He watches TV. While we don't let him use electronics during the school week, he was allowed to play his Wii during the week since there was no school. He got to study his spelling words for the Spelling Bee finals he qualified for this week. And he got to do normal chores or join me for errands when I had to go out.

I don't mind him doing mindless stuff for a week considering how busy his schedule is during they year between school and sports afterward. I don't mind him being sedentary for a week. Normally he has organized physical activity 6 of the 7 days of the week that I get to drive him to. Truth be told, he probably would have played his Wii all day if I let him and I wouldn't even care that much because it's definitely the exception to his norm for the rest of the year. But, he knows I'm eventually going to tell him to stop and find something else to do so he kept himself entertained with other things. We did play an occasional board game as well which I thoroughly enjoyed along with him. But I wasn't his buddy or chaperone or activity leader the majority of the day.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself.

What sort of stuff did he do when he was just being a kid and entertaining himself? My kids are awesome but if I don't make them do stuff they'll be really sedentary. They need to do some sort of physical activity.

I was happy to see my son outside most all day yesterday playing with his friends in the first real snow we've had all year. At the same time, I know that he'd have been inside playing video games if we'd allow it. I guess being paternalistic is ok when you're actually parenting, so I don't mind "forcing" him to play, but it does strike me as odd at times.

 

[Sweet J]

Jesus, I really hate bloggers. Why do we keep giving them attention, again?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

People are talking about different things in here, probably because the original piece was a bit of a mess.

Baking or buying a ridiculous birthday cake for your one-year-old's birthday party, so you can post it on facebook, seems stupid to me. Playing with your kids doesn't. The parents that make the giant cake aren't necessarily the same parents that play with their kids.

Yeah. It seems that a bunch of not entirely related things are being complained of. Some complaints seem valid with respect to parents who seem to use kids as accessories.

I'm not sure that extends to taking a family vacation.

The sports team stuff is interesting to me considering how much I love soccer. Chances are my kid will be at best an average athlete like I was, so I won't need to worry about it. But if the kid is good, do I have to shuttle him all up down the freakin Eastern Seaboard or worry that I'm screwing him out of a scholarship? I hope not.

The sports thing is one part of it. Family vacation is another (and I agree with you that I don't think it extends). But then there's the other everyday stuff.

My son and his classmates just had their 2 weeks of winter vacation from school. I know that not an insignificant # of kids were out doing daily things with their parents like one day ice skating and another day the science center and another day something else, etc. We see it on Facebook. There are families that plan something for their kids most any time they aren't in school or in some activity. It's not possible to just be home and play, at least not as the norm. We went out for an activity one day last week and the rest he spent home just being a kid and entertaining himself.

Yeah. I'm terrified of being a hypocrite about this stuff, but I feel (without any evidence whatsoever) that its important for kids to be able to entertain (and solve problems) by themselves. Its a policy of what I've called (while ripping off Pat Moynihan) "benign neglect."

One of the odd things about parenting is regularly catching yourself being terribly hypocritical in all sorts of embarrassing ways. It happens to me all the time. I hate it, but have to face facts.

 

[Jobber]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

For me, it depends on the age. I'll stick around for my 6 or 7 year old's practice. Only because it's not the coach's job to babysit.

9+? Hell no I'm not sticking around for practices.

 

[cstu]

I like making my kids happy. If doing something silly or "magical" does the trick, sign me up. That does not make me an overbearing parent.

She sounds pretty miserable to me

A lot of crap in that article about spending too much money (I agree it's unnecessary) but mostly comes off as a complaint about having to spend time with your kids.

I didn't grow up with much money and don't miss having more 'stuff' but would have liked more attention from my parents.

 

[eoMMan]

Interesting stats out there about how many couples divorce once the kids grow up and leave the house.

You shouldn't live to serve your kids. Yes, you have many responsibilities and in charge of their care but you still need to know and love your spouse.

 

[cstu]

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

The way the mom reacted was that we must be negligent parents cause we don't feel a compulsion to drag them around a fairy tale park 1,500 miles away from us. Same thing at a play or recital. Parents elbowing one another to get a photo of precious Madysson or Carter in a shepherds outfit at a 4 year old christmas singalong.

I feel like parents are trying to produce sentimental memories (for themselves more than the kids). Your job as a parent is to raise good, smart, healthy adults. Many of these helicopter parents thrive on sentimentality and being beeded and revered by their children. It's ultimately not about the kids development but about the parents self worth.

Also - where's the link?

Exactly. I similarly had a conversation a few days ago about what we got our kids for Christmas. Our 9 year old got 2 gifts from us (Santa)--A basketball hoop for the driveway and a $10 slushie maker he saw on TV and had been asking about. She looked at me as if we were the worst parents ever by only getting him a couple gifts.

We ended up getting more gifts for my daughter than I expected (close to 10 I think) but the one thing she wanted was a $20 Crayola Marker Maker that she asked Santa for. After opening all of the presents the only thing she cared about was the Marker Maker. She would have been just as happy with one gift (and maybe some other stocking stuffer type gifts just for the fun of unwrapping them).

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

I feel like when we do give our kids free time they watch a lot of TV and play on their Kindle, etc...knowing we will ask them to do something again really soon. Almost think if they had more free time they wouldn't watch as much TV. That makes sense in my head, but not when I try to type it out.

I agree over all with the article. And I think social media makes comparison to the Jones's constant. Like every day constant.

 

[cstu]

brohans get your kids outside take them to a nature preserve and wade around in a river with them get them muddy have them chase frogs and catch lightnin bugs and bait a hook and catch a bluegill just do whatever you can to get them out of the basement and away from the atari just take my word for this they will grow up better people and it all it takes is you walking along with them and acting surprised when they find a clam shell in a lake or something hell by the time they are ten they will be laying face down on a pier looking over the edge at fish and you will be one hell of a parent take that to the bank brochachos

Seems like as good a segue / hijack opportunity as any. We let our 9-year old walk down to one of our county's nature centers by himself. It's less than 1/4 of a mile and he doesn't have to cross any streets. They folks at the center know him well and we've both checked in to be sure he's behaving, but for the most part he flies solo and it's basically a chance to learn more about all the local wildlife (which we also see around the house a lot) and get to do some fun stuff in the woods/around the pond.

People act like we've taped a "please kidnap me" sign to his chest and chained him to a tree out front. Are we crazy?

If you live in a safe area like it sounds you do, nope.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

Anything under 5 is too young for a worthwhile Disney trip IMO. I'd think the 6-12 age range is prob perfect for that trip.

How are you defining worthwhile?

 

[Doug B]

We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

It's in line with this part from the OP's article:

At home we played. All the time. After school, we'd walk home from the bus stop, drop off our backpacks and my mom would push us out of the house. We ran around with the neighborhood kids until dinner. Times are different now and very few of us feel comfortable letting our kids wander, but even when we were inside, we played with our toys and video games. We made blanket forts. We watched TV. We slid down the stairs on pillows. Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us. If we dared to mutter those two words, "I'm bored," we would be handed a chore.I look back on those times and smile. I can still recall what it felt like to have carefree fun.

My parents made sure we were warm and fed, and planned the occasional special activity for us (Friday night pizza was a tradition in my home), but when it came to the day-to-day, we were on our own to be kids.

I feel bad for my kids a lot of the time for not having "neighborhood friends" to play with the way I did when I was a kid. The sad part is that there are a lot of kids in our neighborhood -- and it's a safe subburban enclave almost exactly like the one in which I grew up. But the kids are almost never outside. Ever.

There's a kid across the street that my 8-year-old son plays with occasionally (maybe once a month, at most). My wife only allows my son to play with him out in front of either our house or theirs, and only if I am outside observing them the whole time. I arranged a small number of very brief playtimes at the neighbors' house, but about half an hour was all my wife could tolerate. I wanted to reciprocate and have the other kid over for a visit, but my wife "didn't want to be responsible for another kid." And it's not like we haven't met and vetted the parents -- really, the kids having neighborhood playtime shouldn't have all these modern-day obstructions we've collectively placed in the way.

 

[cstu]

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

Anything under 5 is too young for a worthwhile Disney trip IMO. I'd think the 6-12 age range is prob perfect for that trip.

This is a ridiculous statement imo

My wife and I agree with him. We want the kids to be old enough to remember the trip since it is such a big deal for kids. We plan on it being a one time trip, so why not wait so it can be a good memory for them?

My daughter went to Disneyland twice by age 5 but I wouldn't hop on a plane to take her there at that age.

 

[El Floppo]

at the notion that parenting has substantially changed over the course of a generation or two and even more that things have gotten worse. There will always be good parents and there will always be bad parents. There will always be overbearing parents and neglectful parents.

Same as day one.

I don't know about "gotten worse" but I disagree that things haven't changed. I have this conversation with my mom somewhat often- she's always astonished at how full kids' days are packed by their parents now versus even when I was growing up (and she was busy being a thoughtful, involved parent). we had sports and extracurricular stuff- and of course sometimes we needed to be driven to these things before we knew how to drive. but we had tons of down-time, busy being a kid doing whatever: toys, playing with friends, reading, whatever.

as a parent of a 3 and 7 yo, I'm astonished by how much #### our peers are doing with, for and making their kids do; every weeknight and weekend is packed. soooo little time, if any, for them to figure out their own little lives and just play. another difference is that dads are fully involved in ways they really weren't (en masse) when I was growing up- so now there are two parents buzzing around and scheduling stuff.

I say this as a dad who loves hanging out with my kids more than just about anything else- but I know it's good for both of them to figure out and do their own thing without our involvement.

 

[cstu]

Interesting stats out there about how many couples divorce once the kids grow up and leave the house.

You shouldn't live to serve your kids. Yes, you have many responsibilities and in charge of their care but you still need to know and love your spouse.

If you don't plan on being with your spouse after the kids are grown then time is better spent on the kids.

 

[El Floppo]

We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

It's in line with this part from the OP's article:

At home we played. All the time. After school, we'd walk home from the bus stop, drop off our backpacks and my mom would push us out of the house. We ran around with the neighborhood kids until dinner. Times are different now and very few of us feel comfortable letting our kids wander, but even when we were inside, we played with our toys and video games. We made blanket forts. We watched TV. We slid down the stairs on pillows. Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us. If we dared to mutter those two words, "I'm bored," we would be handed a chore.I look back on those times and smile. I can still recall what it felt like to have carefree fun.

My parents made sure we were warm and fed, and planned the occasional special activity for us (Friday night pizza was a tradition in my home), but when it came to the day-to-day, we were on our own to be kids.

I feel bad for my kids a lot of the time for not having "neighborhood friends" to play with the way I did when I was a kid. The sad part is that there are a lot of kids in our neighborhood -- and it's a safe subburban enclave almost exactly like the one in which I grew up. But the kids are almost never outside. Ever.

There's a kid across the street that my 8-year-old son plays with occasionally (maybe once a month, at most). My wife only allows my son to play with him out in front of either our house or theirs, and only if I am outside observing them the whole time. I arranged a small number of very brief playtimes at the neighbors' house, but about half an hour was all my wife could tolerate. I wanted to reciprocate and have the other kid over for a visit, but my wife "didn't want to be responsible for another kid." And it's not like we haven't met and vetted the parents -- really, the kids having neighborhood playtime shouldn't have all these modern-day obstructions we've collectively placed in the way.

is it a litigious thing, or a "oh no, there are bad people just waiting to take our children from us" thing?

I live in NYC- I really want my kid to just be able to go the playground (only a block away) by himself... but this appears to be completely out of the question. and as much as I love the city for the tons of opportunities it affords us and our kids (culcha, etc), I find myself lamenting them not being able to go out on the street and "play" with neighborhood friends the way I imagine so many non-city people do (and the way my folks did, here in NYC- Brooklyn- a long time ago). but maybe I'm wrong about what non-city kids are doing?

 

[cstu]

I agree. It's crazy what some people do for their kids. But you know what, a lot of people are still self absorbed facebook addicts who don't do it for the kids, but for the "likes."

I know a lot of parents who don't do #### with their kids, no fund raising for school, never play a board game, don't help with homework, nothing. Is that better?

Your points above are spot on. That said Im not spending one second with my daughter raising money for her school. They will get it from taxes or I'll cut a check to make up the difference if it's a reasonable user fee expected. The whole perpetual school fundraising concept just irks the hell out of me.

The constant being asked to buy crap we don't need for fundraising drives me crazy. It's easier and more effective just to donate to the school directly or buy supplies for the classroom. I've paid almost a rack in donations but it's a top school and 1/20th the price of private school.

 

[Doug B]

I agree. And I think many resent the kids for it. I know one guy who I just spoke to who certainly does. A very respected business man I work with and his outside life is lived through his daughters. Not by his choice either but he feels like he has to do it.

Can't speak for that guy. But for a lot of parents in our circle, without all this organized sports/karate/cheerleading/etc/, our kids would get absolutely no physical activity at all. Few of our kids can ride bikes -- having them learn to ride would've required a parent's eyes on them at all moments. Even had they learned, they couldn't exactly be allowed anywhere. So, organized, supervised activity it is -- with parental supervision at all times, of course.

A lot of parents my age and younger are both afraid and kind of "angry in advance" of the prospect that a non-family adult will do ... something ... to our kid. I don't even mean serious stuff like abductions or abuse. I mean like a coach making a kid run a lap, or making a kid carry an equipment bag. A cheerleading coach correcting our child's movements in a "peppery" manner (not berating at all). An "old coot" neighbor chasing our kids off their property (how dare they!). And so on.

Today's kids will learn all the interpersonal conflict resolution they will ever learn as adults, on the fly. And they will need GPD desperately as adult drivers, because they will have no experience at all navigating an area larger than the block on which they live.

 

[Thunderlips]

I get it and agree with most of what the original author says. I think she's so absolute in her opinion (which is a bit of a mistake) is probably because she's combating something that has become a rabid social norm in this modern, American society..... and in the world of the millisecond media of the internet....there is no room for nuances. That being said, I'm sure she'd see no problem with playing with your child or having similar hobbies with your child that both enjoy.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Interesting stats out there about how many couples divorce once the kids grow up and leave the house.

You shouldn't live to serve your kids. Yes, you have many responsibilities and in charge of their care but you still need to know and love your spouse.

Maybe those people would just have gotten divorced earlier.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Some reciprocate, some don't, nobody is keeping score.

The women are absolutely keeping score. Don't fool yourself for a nanosecond. And some of the men are too. They may be good at keeping it on the DL, but score is being kept.

1967-1970 my parents took four major (for them) vacations - two to Las Vegas, one to Mexico, one to Europe. We got dumped with Aunts or Grandma. They used to throw a lot of pool parties, too. They had an eclectic and interesting group of friends. We were kind of aware our parents weren't like other parents - less supervision, lots of booze - but I can't say it bothered us. We spent summers at a lake cottage boating and swimming, snowmobiles in the winter. Hell, one year dad brought home an ice boat (3 skis and a big ### fan - neighbors hated how loud it was, that didn't last long). Anyway, they lived their lives, did a reasonably good job making sure we didn't get killed, and made sure we plenty of toys (dirt bikes, tanning bed for the girls, whatever). Around 1971 Disney World opened - the four of us kids were 15, 14, 12 and 9 - and our "family vacations" morphed from camping/RVing (their jaunts ended) to the need to be entertained. Went to Orlando first four years it was open (from Michigan). Used to be we had the family car (station wagon) and a fun car for them - Mustang, Corvette. Pretty soon the fun cars stopped, though dad did start driving pickups (he was an entrepreneur). We also left the little fresh water lake and became Lake Michigan boaters. Totally different vibe - instead of hanging around the lake catching turtles with our summer friends, we were at a marina every weekend, meeting spoiled rich kids, playing shuffleboard or mini-golf or taking the houseboat for a cruise. In other words, we stopped making our own fun, and our parents became entertainment directors.

They got divorced in 1974. Probably just a coincidence.

Your parents sound like they were pretty awesome for the most part.

They also totally sound like they were swingers. NTTAWWT.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Wife and I had a conversation about this the other day. We were asked by another parent if we had taken the kids to Disney yet. We said no, they are too young, we may go when they are older but we aren't sure we are gonna take them.

Anything under 5 is too young for a worthwhile Disney trip IMO. I'd think the 6-12 age range is prob perfect for that trip.

This is a ridiculous statement imo

My wife and I agree with him. We want the kids to be old enough to remember the trip since it is such a big deal for kids. We plan on it being a one time trip, so why not wait so it can be a good memory for them?

My daughter went to Disneyland twice by age 5 but I wouldn't hop on a plane to take her there at that age.

Ive always thought Disney was for parents who don't like actually doing real stuff with their kids. Its kinda like taking them to a SUPER expensive babysitter for the week.

 

[El Floppo]

oh- haven't really read the discussion about travel and kids, but....

I was really lucky to have parents who liked to travel growing up. they'd take us on a trip or two every year, including some pretty epic trips to different parts of the world. my first memories (as a 2yo) are from these trips, and I know for a fact that the exposure to different cultures and sites that they allowed profoundly affected how I look at things as an adult. I don't have the resources to provide this kind of life for my kids sadly, but I do see a huge bump in development for both of them when we get back from any kind of traveling.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Just to add one thing on sports practices -- I coach a soccer team and the rules of the league say I'm never supposed to be the only adult present. I think it's primarily to protect against allegations of abuse. A few seasons I didn't have an assistant coach so I actually had to make sure there was always one parent there at practice.

 

[Insein]

facebook and Pinterest didn't create the problem, but they can exacerbate it for those who were worried about keeping up with the Jonses to begin with.

Yep. Its just that our wives can now see all the Jones in the world instead of just the ones in our little circle.

 

[parasaurolophus]

brohans get your kids outside take them to a nature preserve and wade around in a river with them get them muddy have them chase frogs and catch lightnin bugs and bait a hook and catch a bluegill just do whatever you can to get them out of the basement and away from the atari just take my word for this they will grow up better people and it all it takes is you walking along with them and acting surprised when they find a clam shell in a lake or something hell by the time they are ten they will be laying face down on a pier looking over the edge at fish and you will be one hell of a parent take that to the bank brochachos

Seems like as good a segue / hijack opportunity as any. We let our 9-year old walk down to one of our county's nature centers by himself. It's less than 1/4 of a mile and he doesn't have to cross any streets. They folks at the center know him well and we've both checked in to be sure he's behaving, but for the most part he flies solo.

People act like we've taped a "please kidnap me" sign to his chest and chained him to a tree out front. Are we crazy?

My wife was out of town one weekend and I was in charge of the kids. She freaked when she found out I went for a 30 minute walk at 5:30 in the morning while the kids (8 and 6) were sleeping. 'what if there was a fire?!!?'

This is a tough one for me. I was a very independent child and roamed quite a bit. This has served me very well in my life. So I generally try and determine if there can be a tangible benefit to my son. I think Wdcrob's child is benefitting from going to that center by himself so I would let my son do that. I wouldn't let him do it more than a couple times since the benefit of doing it by himself would have already been served and then nobody could have seen him enough times to realize that "hmmm...This kid is always here by himself."

However Brony's kids get no positive benefit from being home alone by themselves at 5:30am so I would never even consider it and agree with his wife.

Just becomes simple risk/reward analysis I guess.

 

[eoMMan]

Interesting stats out there about how many couples divorce once the kids grow up and leave the house.

You shouldn't live to serve your kids. Yes, you have many responsibilities and in charge of their care but you still need to know and love your spouse.

Maybe those people would just have gotten divorced earlier.

Maybe.

And/or maybe they just grow apart because they spend every minute of the last 18 years catering to the kids.

 

[comfortably numb]

We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

It's in line with this part from the OP's article:

At home we played. All the time. After school, we'd walk home from the bus stop, drop off our backpacks and my mom would push us out of the house. We ran around with the neighborhood kids until dinner. Times are different now and very few of us feel comfortable letting our kids wander, but even when we were inside, we played with our toys and video games. We made blanket forts. We watched TV. We slid down the stairs on pillows. Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us. If we dared to mutter those two words, "I'm bored," we would be handed a chore.I look back on those times and smile. I can still recall what it felt like to have carefree fun.

My parents made sure we were warm and fed, and planned the occasional special activity for us (Friday night pizza was a tradition in my home), but when it came to the day-to-day, we were on our own to be kids.

I feel bad for my kids a lot of the time for not having "neighborhood friends" to play with the way I did when I was a kid. The sad part is that there are a lot of kids in our neighborhood -- and it's a safe subburban enclave almost exactly like the one in which I grew up. But the kids are almost never outside. Ever.

There's a kid across the street that my 8-year-old son plays with occasionally (maybe once a month, at most). My wife only allows my son to play with him out in front of either our house or theirs, and only if I am outside observing them the whole time. I arranged a small number of very brief playtimes at the neighbors' house, but about half an hour was all my wife could tolerate. I wanted to reciprocate and have the other kid over for a visit, but my wife "didn't want to be responsible for another kid." And it's not like we haven't met and vetted the parents -- really, the kids having neighborhood playtime shouldn't have all these modern-day obstructions we've collectively placed in the way.

I grew up in a city where you just hollered or whistled and kids would pop their heads out the window to come out and play.

My daughter is 8 and her bff lives behind us.

So many times she just pops up unsupervised and unannounced to play.

Some parents think its rude and annoying.

I think it's so cool, i get all excited when i see her opening up gate. I start screaming out to my kids to let them know.

 

[El Floppo]

Interesting stats out there about how many couples divorce once the kids grow up and leave the house.

You shouldn't live to serve your kids. Yes, you have many responsibilities and in charge of their care but you still need to know and love your spouse.

Maybe those people would just have gotten divorced earlier.

Maybe.

And/or maybe they just grow apart because they spend every minute of the last 18 years catering to the kids.

or maybe after 18+ years of busy lives not getting a lot of quality time together, they've realized that they've grown apart. being parents and busy doesn't have to equate to "catering to the kids"