"I'm Done Making My Kid's Childhood Magical" (1 Viewer)

[sublimeone]

I think the motivating factor behind most of this nonsense is impressing other people... not trying to make a magical childhood for their children. I don't know if this is true everywhere but in the suburbs of Chicago it seems that, for a lot of people, impressing other's is their full time job.

 

[Insein]

I think the motivating factor behind most of this nonsense is impressing other people... not trying to make a magical childhood for their children. I don't know if this is true everywhere but in the suburbs of Chicago it seems that, for a lot of people, impressing other's is their full time job.

I don't think that's the primary reason. I think for women its not wanting to be a failure. My wife whines all the time about being a failure to her kids because she didn't have the very best birthday party or we didn't go to one more museum over winter break. They put the pressure on themselves unnecessarily.

 

[Doug B]

is it a litigious thing, or a "oh no, there are bad people just waiting to take our children from us" thing?

Maybe a little of both, but a lot more of simply not wanting anything bad negative, at all, to happen when we're not right there on the spot. She's big on the idea that "they won't watch them the way I would".

I live in NYC- I really want my kid to just be able to go the playground (only a block away) by himself... but this appears to be completely out of the question. and as much as I love the city for the tons of opportunities it affords us and our kids (culcha, etc), I find myself lamenting them not being able to go out on the street and "play" with neighborhood friends the way I imagine so many non-city people do (and the way my folks did, here in NYC- Brooklyn- a long time ago). but maybe I'm wrong about what non-city kids are doing?

Well, I am only one data point in a completely different part of the country. I can say that around here in New Orleans-area suburbia, where I can see and in the areas I drive around every day, kids just aren't out and about. The local playgrounds and ball-fields have organized sports for kids, but that's about it.

 

[Doug B]

Some reciprocate, some don't, nobody is keeping score.

The women are absolutely keeping score. Don't fool yourself for a nanosecond. And some of the men are too. They may be good at keeping it on the DL, but score is being kept.

Absolutely.

 

[Doug B]

Ive always thought Disney was for parents who don't like actually doing real stuff with their kids. Its kinda like taking them to a SUPER expensive babysitter for the week.

No way in 2014. Those parks are immense. With modern sensibilities about child safety, there's no way you can let kids loose to their own devices to meet back up for lunch or whatever. Heck, the adults get lost all the time as it is

I actually don't think elementary-school are kids were going through a place like DisneyWorld without parents back in the 1970s-80s either. But maybe others have accounts to the contrary.

 

[L5UT1ger]

I think the motivating factor behind most of this nonsense is impressing other people... not trying to make a magical childhood for their children. I don't know if this is true everywhere but in the suburbs of Chicago it seems that, for a lot of people, impressing other's is their full time job.

I don't think that's the primary reason. I think for women its not wanting to be a failure. My wife whines all the time about being a failure to her kids because she didn't have the very best birthday party or we didn't go to one more museum over winter break. They put the pressure on themselves unnecessarily.

I find my poor wife stressed about the lack of time to put on what she feels is a proper party/activity, etc. and, to me, this is nuts.

 

[Brony]

However Brony's kids get no positive benefit from being home alone by themselves at 5:30am so I would never even consider it and agree with his wife.
Just becomes simple risk/reward analysis I guess.

[sorry to continue the hijack. ] They slept in their beds as they had the other 99+% of days at that time. It was a non-zero risk to leave them unattended just as it's non-zero risk to run into the 7-11 with your kids in the car. I felt the risk was awfully, awfully small.

 

[Brony]

I think the motivating factor behind most of this nonsense is impressing other people... not trying to make a magical childhood for their children. I don't know if this is true everywhere but in the suburbs of Chicago it seems that, for a lot of people, impressing other's is their full time job.

I'm in the suburbs of Chicago and my full time job is to waste time here and other places on the internet and I'm quite good at it TYVM.

 

[sublimeone]

I think the motivating factor behind most of this nonsense is impressing other people... not trying to make a magical childhood for their children. I don't know if this is true everywhere but in the suburbs of Chicago it seems that, for a lot of people, impressing other's is their full time job.

I don't think that's the primary reason. I think for women its not wanting to be a failure. My wife whines all the time about being a failure to her kids because she didn't have the very best birthday party or we didn't go to one more museum over winter break. They put the pressure on themselves unnecessarily.

I find my poor wife stressed about the lack of time to put on what she feels is a proper party/activity, etc. and, to me, this is nuts.

I find my poor wife stressed that the baby doesn't have anything cute to wear for [fill-in the blank]. I find this nuts because we have a closet full of clothes he never wore because he grew out of them before we ever had a chance to put them on him. Then you go to the event and can immediately tell who the cool people are because they aren't perfectly presented. Whereas the family's that have a mommy with a face full of makeup and perfect outfits on all the kiddos are the worst.

If you happen to get roped into a conversation with them be prepared for lots of head nodding, fake laughs and constant humble brags.

 

[IC FBGCav]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

If my parents did this when I was that age I would tell them to leave. Hell, we rode our bikes to practice and games. The only reason I know they were even at my games is because I would hit them up for snow cone money after the game.

 

[Doug B]

My daughter is 8 and her bff lives behind us.

So many times she just pops up unsupervised and unannounced to play.

Some parents think its rude and annoying.

I think it's so cool, i get all excited when i see her opening up gate. I start screaming out to my kids to let them know.

Most similarly-aged parents we know believe this, as well. Maybe it's a corollary of overstructured time: "We have somewhere to be, no time to play now. Go on home."

I wonder what the watershed for this kind of thing was. I know the leaf didn't turn simultaneously in all places for all people. But something cultural switched off somewhere in America as a whole. And I really don't think it has anything to do with publicized abductions or anything like that. It seems to be more about personal insularity, somehow, and it definitely pre-dates the popular explosion of the Internet (let alone 2010s-style social media).

Personal insularity ... can we blame it on the Baby Boomers? Not really kidding, but not really mad about it and not meaning to be accusatory. Just kind of wondering "What happened?"

 

[bigbottom]

Making memories with your children is a currency whose value is beyond measure. Those memories don't necessarily need to be elaborate or magical (though they can be); they just need to be genuine, heartfelt and everlasting.

 

[Brony]

My daughter is 8 and her bff lives behind us.

So many times she just pops up unsupervised and unannounced to play.

Some parents think its rude and annoying.

I think it's so cool, i get all excited when i see her opening up gate. I start screaming out to my kids to let them know.

Most similarly-aged parents we know believe this, as well. Maybe it's a corollary of overstructured time: "We have somewhere to be, no time to play now. Go on home."

I wonder what the watershed for this kind of thing was. I know the leaf didn't turn simultaneously in all places for all people. But something cultural switched off somewhere in America as a whole. And I really don't think it has anything to do with publicized abductions or anything like that. It seems to be more about personal insularity, somehow, and it definitely pre-dates the popular explosion of the Internet (let alone 2010s-style social media).

Personal insularity ... can we blame it on the Baby Boomers? Not really kidding, but not really mad about it and not meaning to be accusatory. Just kind of wondering "What happened?"

I blame Macaulay Culkin

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

My daughter is 8 and her bff lives behind us.

So many times she just pops up unsupervised and unannounced to play.

Some parents think its rude and annoying.

I think it's so cool, i get all excited when i see her opening up gate. I start screaming out to my kids to let them know.

Most similarly-aged parents we know believe this, as well. Maybe it's a corollary of overstructured time: "We have somewhere to be, no time to play now. Go on home."

I wonder what the watershed for this kind of thing was. I know the leaf didn't turn simultaneously in all places for all people. But something cultural switched off somewhere in America as a whole. And I really don't think it has anything to do with publicized abductions or anything like that. It seems to be more about personal insularity, somehow, and it definitely pre-dates the popular explosion of the Internet (let alone 2010s-style social media).

Personal insularity ... can we blame it on the Baby Boomers? Not really kidding, but not really mad about it and not meaning to be accusatory. Just kind of wondering "What happened?"

I think a large reason for the decline in unstructured play time is the increase in families where both parents work. When I was kid my mom stayed home and pretty much all my friends' moms did too. That's not true for my kids or their friends. Very few kids are home with nothing to do afterschool. And parents who haven't seen their kids that much during the week are more inclined to want to spend time with them during the weekend. I'm pretty sure my mom was sick of seeing me by Saturday and was thrilled if I went to a friend's house for a few hours.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Ive always thought Disney was for parents who don't like actually doing real stuff with their kids. Its kinda like taking them to a SUPER expensive babysitter for the week.

No way in 2014. Those parks are immense. With modern sensibilities about child safety, there's no way you can let kids loose to their own devices to meet back up for lunch or whatever. Heck, the adults get lost all the time as it is

I actually don't think elementary-school are kids were going through a place like DisneyWorld without parents back in the 1970s-80s either. But maybe others have accounts to the contrary.

I just meant that it was mindless. Sign up for your daily allotments of pre-packaged, pre-scripted fun and get herded around like cattle. Sounds like torture.

 

[jwb]

I have a friend who is increasingly becoming extremely kid-centric.

His kid is 12 (the youngest of three - by a lot. The other two are in their 20's). This kid is extremely infantile and needy. He's rude, unpleasant, fat, pasty... the type of kid who never had to lift a finger to do anything, ever. The mother dotes on him like he's an infant (it's bizarre/disturbing to see their dynamic, actually). Of course, they think their kid is brilliant/gifted (he's not). This kid is never left alone, and it seems he'll be 18 before his parents will ever leave him for even a minute.

Anyway, predictably, this kid has zero neighborhood friends. My friend says it's because all of the other kids are a-holes, but it's clear to me that it's because the kid is a jerk, plain and simple. In fact, he's getting worse - to the point where my wife says "he isn't coming here anymore", and I kind of don't blame her (whenever we get together, my wife gets stuck with my friends wife and the attached kid)

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

My friend puts on the "I'm being a good parent" face, but when we have a few drinks (which is becoming increasingly rare), it's clear he doesn't like the astounding amount of time spent doing this, and isn't happy. It's also clear that "well, why don't you do xyz" comments aren't really welcome. The kid is getting his pokemon time whenever he wishes, and that's that.

I feel bad, because I'm definitely losing my friend, and also because I know he isn't enjoying his life.

No point to this except to vent. I don't have kids myself, so maybe I just don't "get" it, but it just seems excessive to me.

 

[Ned]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

Peer pressure to do what?

I love watching both my boys practice (soccer). They're both young (6 & 8) and are self motivated to play and improve themselves. I'm fascinated to see them so motivated at a young age. I'd appreciate the sentiment if their coach told me to take advantage of the free time, but I enjoy watching them right now so I wouldn't be leaving either.

 

[Ned]

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

JFC

 

[Thorn]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

Peer pressure to do what?

I love watching both my boys practice (soccer). They're both young (6 & 8) and are self motivated to play and improve themselves. I'm fascinated to see them so motivated at a young age. I'd appreciate the sentiment if their coach told me to take advantage of the free time, but I enjoy watching them right now so I wouldn't be leaving either.

Peer pressure to stay. Half of Little League practice is BP, of which your kids hits for 5-10 minutes. Otherwise he's shagging flies. Maybe soccer practice is more exciting, I dunno. Just never understood watching practice. Practice man, practice.

 

[Ned]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

Peer pressure to do what?

I love watching both my boys practice (soccer). They're both young (6 & 8) and are self motivated to play and improve themselves. I'm fascinated to see them so motivated at a young age. I'd appreciate the sentiment if their coach told me to take advantage of the free time, but I enjoy watching them right now so I wouldn't be leaving either.

Peer pressure to stay. Half of Little League practice is BP, of which your kids hits for 5-10 minutes. Otherwise he's shagging flies. Maybe soccer practice is more exciting, I dunno. Just never understood watching practice. Practice man, practice.

Peer pressure to stay just seems so bizarre. And yeah.... baseball sucks.

 

[Doug B]

I think a large reason for the decline in unstructured play time is the increase in families where both parents work. When I was kid my mom stayed home and pretty much all my friends' moms did too. That's not true for my kids or their friends. Very few kids are home with nothing to do afterschool. And parents who haven't seen their kids that much during the week are more inclined to want to spend time with them during the weekend. I'm pretty sure my mom was sick of seeing me by Saturday and was thrilled if I went to a friend's house for a few hours.

This makes a lot of sense to me. The timing's about right, too -- it took society a while (maybe even a full generation) to kind of adjust to the New Normal of "lots of women working".

Remember for while there were "latchkey kids"? Probably never really younger than 8 ... but definitely elementary-school aged kids who'd let themselves into their empty houses after school? The thinking was that they only had to sit tight for maybe two hours until one or both parents got home. Being back when it was more likely you knew your neighbors at least a little well, these latchkey kids were often told to "go next door" or "knock on their door" in case of an emergency (anything from a stopped-up toilet to a skull fracture).

 

[Doug B]

I just meant that it was mindless. Sign up for your daily allotments of pre-packaged, pre-scripted fun and get herded around like cattle. Sounds like torture.

Ah, gotcha,

 

[Sabertooth]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

Peer pressure to do what?

I love watching both my boys practice (soccer). They're both young (6 & 8) and are self motivated to play and improve themselves. I'm fascinated to see them so motivated at a young age. I'd appreciate the sentiment if their coach told me to take advantage of the free time, but I enjoy watching them right now so I wouldn't be leaving either.

Peer pressure to stay. Half of Little League practice is BP, of which your kids hits for 5-10 minutes. Otherwise he's shagging flies. Maybe soccer practice is more exciting, I dunno. Just never understood watching practice. Practice man, practice.

Yeah well they need to get pictures and what not.

 

[Thorn]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

I remember when I started coaching Little League, the parents would drop kids off and ask what time they would be done. That was mid 90s. I remember the last few years I coached, say around 2005, there would be parents in the stands during the first practice and I would have the kids run a lap around the outfield then walk over and say - you've got two free hours, get out of here, take advantage. Worked the first couple times, but by the last year, it was 75% of the parents, and I think the peer pressure was too much. They wouldn't leave. Still amazes me. We talkin bout PRACTICE!

Peer pressure to do what?

I love watching both my boys practice (soccer). They're both young (6 & 8) and are self motivated to play and improve themselves. I'm fascinated to see them so motivated at a young age. I'd appreciate the sentiment if their coach told me to take advantage of the free time, but I enjoy watching them right now so I wouldn't be leaving either.

Peer pressure to stay. Half of Little League practice is BP, of which your kids hits for 5-10 minutes. Otherwise he's shagging flies. Maybe soccer practice is more exciting, I dunno. Just never understood watching practice. Practice man, practice.

Peer pressure to stay just seems so bizarre. And yeah.... baseball sucks.

There were also dads who would go to other teams' games. To "scout." Not many, but a couple. They seemed upset when I said I didn't care what they saw. Weirdos ended up being at the field like five days a week.

 

[DCThunder]

There is a radio commercial running in the DC area for SunTrust Mortgage with the voice of a dad saying he spent two days building a castle in the backyard for his daughters birthday party and his wife spent 2 days baking a special cake because they "want everything perfect" for their little princess but now that he has a SunTrust Mortgage on his new McMansion his daughter thinks she's living in a castle.

Makes me want to uke: everytime I hear it.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I think a large reason for the decline in unstructured play time is the increase in families where both parents work. When I was kid my mom stayed home and pretty much all my friends' moms did too. That's not true for my kids or their friends. Very few kids are home with nothing to do afterschool. And parents who haven't seen their kids that much during the week are more inclined to want to spend time with them during the weekend. I'm pretty sure my mom was sick of seeing me by Saturday and was thrilled if I went to a friend's house for a few hours.

This makes a lot of sense to me. The timing's about right, too -- it took society a while (maybe even a full generation) to kind of adjust to the New Normal of "lots of women working".

Remember for while there were "latchkey kids"? Probably never really younger than 8 ... but definitely elementary-school aged kids who'd let themselves into their empty houses after school? The thinking was that they only had to sit tight for maybe two hours until one or both parents got home. Being back when it was more likely you knew your neighbors at least a little well, these latchkey kids were often told to "go next door" or "knock on their door" in case of an emergency (anything from a stopped-up toilet to a skull fracture).

Interesting point, as I've often wondered the same thing about when and why this dynamic changed. I had a best friend who lived down the street, and we just showed up at each other's doors whenever, and often then took off to wander through the woods or ride bikes or whatever - just be home when the streetlights come on. We moved in 7th grade and I had a new best friend 1/2 mile away - I'd ride my bike or walk to his house and we'd play hoops for hours.

I was also a latchkey kid starting in about 3rd grade - we had a combination box on the side of the house with a key in it and I'd let myself in, make a snack, and watch tv until mom got home. Never thought twice about it.

But now people seem to think it's rude for a kid to just show up. I rarely see kids just playing pick-up sports at the local schools on weekends - it's usually parents with their kids. And I can't imagine letting my 3rd grade daughter come home on her own - she's 6th grade now and I'm just starting to get there.

 

[JohnnyU]

I believe kids should massage the feet of their parents to understand the true meaning of Christmas.

 

[Yenrub]

I have a friend who is increasingly becoming extremely kid-centric.

His kid is 12 (the youngest of three - by a lot. The other two are in their 20's). This kid is extremely infantile and needy. He's rude, unpleasant, fat, pasty... the type of kid who never had to lift a finger to do anything, ever. The mother dotes on him like he's an infant (it's bizarre/disturbing to see their dynamic, actually). Of course, they think their kid is brilliant/gifted (he's not). This kid is never left alone, and it seems he'll be 18 before his parents will ever leave him for even a minute.

Anyway, predictably, this kid has zero neighborhood friends. My friend says it's because all of the other kids are a-holes, but it's clear to me that it's because the kid is a jerk, plain and simple. In fact, he's getting worse - to the point where my wife says "he isn't coming here anymore", and I kind of don't blame her (whenever we get together, my wife gets stuck with my friends wife and the attached kid)

The one and only thing this kid does is play Pokémon. So my friend takes him to a store an hour away to play... and this has been increasing as the kid gets older. They go 3-4 times a week, and all day Sat (and sometimes Sun.) Every family trip they take are to Pokémon events only. They go to DC for a weekend, and it's Pokémon, and nothing else. They never leave the hotel where the event is. My friend and his wife are 100% of that kid's entertainment.

My friend puts on the "I'm being a good parent" face, but when we have a few drinks (which is becoming increasingly rare), it's clear he doesn't like the astounding amount of time spent doing this, and isn't happy. It's also clear that "well, why don't you do xyz" comments aren't really welcome. The kid is getting his pokemon time whenever he wishes, and that's that.

I feel bad, because I'm definitely losing my friend, and also because I know he isn't enjoying his life.

No point to this except to vent. I don't have kids myself, so maybe I just don't "get" it, but it just seems excessive to me.

Wait Pokemon is still something that kids are into?

 

[Kumerica]

My daughter is 8 and her bff lives behind us.

So many times she just pops up unsupervised and unannounced to play.

Some parents think its rude and annoying.

I think it's so cool, i get all excited when i see her opening up gate. I start screaming out to my kids to let them know.

Most similarly-aged parents we know believe this, as well. Maybe it's a corollary of overstructured time: "We have somewhere to be, no time to play now. Go on home."

I wonder what the watershed for this kind of thing was. I know the leaf didn't turn simultaneously in all places for all people. But something cultural switched off somewhere in America as a whole. And I really don't think it has anything to do with publicized abductions or anything like that. It seems to be more about personal insularity, somehow, and it definitely pre-dates the popular explosion of the Internet (let alone 2010s-style social media).

Personal insularity ... can we blame it on the Baby Boomers? Not really kidding, but not really mad about it and not meaning to be accusatory. Just kind of wondering "What happened?"

It was that episode of Diff'rent Strokes. You know the one.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Some reciprocate, some don't, nobody is keeping score.

The women are absolutely keeping score. Don't fool yourself for a nanosecond. And some of the men are too. They may be good at keeping it on the DL, but score is being kept.

1967-1970 my parents took four major (for them) vacations - two to Las Vegas, one to Mexico, one to Europe. We got dumped with Aunts or Grandma. They used to throw a lot of pool parties, too. They had an eclectic and interesting group of friends. We were kind of aware our parents weren't like other parents - less supervision, lots of booze - but I can't say it bothered us. We spent summers at a lake cottage boating and swimming, snowmobiles in the winter. Hell, one year dad brought home an ice boat (3 skis and a big ### fan - neighbors hated how loud it was, that didn't last long). Anyway, they lived their lives, did a reasonably good job making sure we didn't get killed, and made sure we plenty of toys (dirt bikes, tanning bed for the girls, whatever). Around 1971 Disney World opened - the four of us kids were 15, 14, 12 and 9 - and our "family vacations" morphed from camping/RVing (their jaunts ended) to the need to be entertained. Went to Orlando first four years it was open (from Michigan). Used to be we had the family car (station wagon) and a fun car for them - Mustang, Corvette. Pretty soon the fun cars stopped, though dad did start driving pickups (he was an entrepreneur). We also left the little fresh water lake and became Lake Michigan boaters. Totally different vibe - instead of hanging around the lake catching turtles with our summer friends, we were at a marina every weekend, meeting spoiled rich kids, playing shuffleboard or mini-golf or taking the houseboat for a cruise. In other words, we stopped making our own fun, and our parents became entertainment directors.

They got divorced in 1974. Probably just a coincidence.

Your parents sound like they were pretty awesome for the most part.

They also totally sound like they were swingers. NTTAWWT.

Plausible, plausible deniability. It's not something I'll pounder. Like I said, they were fun to be around.

Momma passed a few years back, and dad is in a wheelchair with dementia. Thankful I have good memories, as there aren't too many on the road ahead.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Wait Pokemon is still something that kids are into?

My kids are very into it. I better not tell them about this tournament crap.

 

[Doug B]

Wait Pokemon is still something that kids are into?

It never really went away totally. It's popularity ebbs and flows. In recent years, Pokemon's gotten a toe-hold on Cartoon Network which is helping them achieve popularity among new kids all the time.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Some of the sentiment hits home for me, although its something I've been well aware of for a few years now and an issue I've tried to address with my wife. The comment, "Our parents were not responsible for entertaining us" sums it up for me. My childhood memories are of my parents enjoying their lives, and bringing us along for the ride. In my life, and those of most all of my friends, our weekends, vacations and most all of our free time is dictated by our kids. One minor example - although I played sports most all of my youth, I'm pretty certain my parents never attended one single practice, and likely missed many of the games. I have friends who attend practices with their kids several days a week, year round. One friend has two boys, and has year round games every single weekend - many involving long drives and overnights. Summer for my kids is a constant barrage of activities, day camps, etc. - in each case something we researched, paid for and drove them to. We feel responsible for entertaining and stimulating our kids constantly. That's our job, not theirs. I hate it honestly, but don't see a good solution. Its just the way we live now.

The attending practices just blows me away. My parents never missed a game - both were there if my dad wasn't working. But not ever one practice - AND no one else's parents were at a practice either, it would have seemed weird.

My son played 5th/6th grade football and the parents were lined up along the sidelines with coolers, lawn chairs and blankets like it was a game ...every practice. F'n crazy.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Ive always thought Disney was for parents who don't like actually doing real stuff with their kids. Its kinda like taking them to a SUPER expensive babysitter for the week.

I actually don't think elementary-school are kids were going through a place like DisneyWorld without parents back in the 1970s-80s either. But maybe others have accounts to the contrary.

I went when I was six, which would have been 1978. At least two days, my parents dropped my brother and I off with a kids activity run by the park. It was supervised by park personnel, but my parents didn't go. The first day was some pirate themed treasure hunt. The second was to Water Country.

 

[Doug B]

It was that episode of Diff'rent Strokes. You know the one.

You might be half-jesting, but that kind of thing helped shape that "kids in danger" zeitgeist of the 1980s. For better or worse.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

My daughter is 8 and her bff lives behind us.

So many times she just pops up unsupervised and unannounced to play.

Some parents think its rude and annoying.

I think it's so cool, i get all excited when i see her opening up gate. I start screaming out to my kids to let them know.

Most similarly-aged parents we know believe this, as well. Maybe it's a corollary of overstructured time: "We have somewhere to be, no time to play now. Go on home."

I wonder what the watershed for this kind of thing was. I know the leaf didn't turn simultaneously in all places for all people. But something cultural switched off somewhere in America as a whole. And I really don't think it has anything to do with publicized abductions or anything like that. It seems to be more about personal insularity, somehow, and it definitely pre-dates the popular explosion of the Internet (let alone 2010s-style social media).

Personal insularity ... can we blame it on the Baby Boomers? Not really kidding, but not really mad about it and not meaning to be accusatory. Just kind of wondering "What happened?"

I think a large reason for the decline in unstructured play time is the increase in families where both parents work. When I was kid my mom stayed home and pretty much all my friends' moms did too. That's not true for my kids or their friends. Very few kids are home with nothing to do afterschool. And parents who haven't seen their kids that much during the week are more inclined to want to spend time with them during the weekend. I'm pretty sure my mom was sick of seeing me by Saturday and was thrilled if I went to a friend's house for a few hours.

This seems possible. My parents both worked after I was four or so, but I went to a babysitter with a bunch of other kids. I was probably around my parents a lot on weekends because my brother played travel soccer and my folks did normally drive him all over the area. But even then, me and the other little brothers would just go screw around wherever the games were being held.

The one thing I do remember is that my babysitter wasn't some constant presence. The kids were in the basement rec room or outside. She'd essentially only check in every once in a while unless we were in the pool.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Interesting stats out there about how many couples divorce once the kids grow up and leave the house.

You shouldn't live to serve your kids. Yes, you have many responsibilities and in charge of their care but you still need to know and love your spouse.

Maybe those people would just have gotten divorced earlier.

Maybe.And/or maybe they just grow apart because they spend every minute of the last 18 years catering to the kids.

or maybe after 18+ years of busy lives not getting a lot of quality time together, they've realized that they've grown apart. being parents and busy doesn't have to equate to "catering to the kids"

T minus 14 (years) until your Jubilee Year?

 

[mr roboto]

There was a fascinating sign on a bulletin board at a Starbucks a few years back in one affluent suburban town near me. It was a series of classes put on by the park district or the forest preserve district.

One of the classes was titled something like 'Unstructured Play - New Findings Suggest Kids Should Have Free Outdoor Play Time'

The humor for me was twofold. 1. This was put on by a community organization which also inundates kids with hundreds of highly structured events every year. 2. These classes are put on for parents who are ACTIVELY RESEARCHING the best play philosophies.

I grew up in a small town. 'Come home for dinner' was the last thing my mother said to me every weekend and summer day until dinner. We had free run. My wife grew up in a middle class new burb in the 80s. Even in the 90s her brothers had to be in a league to play baseball - kids never organized their own sandlot or pickup games.

 

[SWC]

Making memories with your children is a currency whose value is beyond measure. Those memories don't necessarily need to be elaborate or magical (though they can be); they just need to be genuine, heartfelt and everlasting.

boom bromigos this is exactly where it is at my best memories with my parents with with my kids are the ones where we are laughing so hard you can not breath and have to beg others to stop talking that right there has nothing to do with trying to impress your neighbors or other nosey nancies with a blog who even cares about them take that to the bank brochachos

 

[BobbyLayne]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

 

[Zow]

But you know what, a lot of people are still self absorbed facebook addicts who don't do it for the kids, but for the "likes."

Early leader for Post of the Year.

Right, these people aren't doing anything for their kids. It's so they can be recognized by their friends as being the "better" parent and getting the "OMG's" and "likes" on instagram and facebook.

I don't give a crap about that stuff.. but my wife will openly admit that 1/3rd of the pleasure she derives from going on a sweet caribbean vacation is being able to post the photos online and basically letting people know life is good for her.

Social media has allowed people to frame their lives to their public and craft the image they want to portray. Whether it be the picture of their vacation, new car, food, fabulous experience.. etc... people are all about highlighting the good parts of their life to make sure other people think their life is better than it often times is.

People have always done this in some fashion. For older generations, it was inviting other families over for a gathering when they prepped their homes to be spotless and dressed their kids to the 9s and threatened them with punishment if they didn't behave. For more recent ones, it was Christmas cards with obnoxious updates as to how awesome each member of the family is and the keeping of photo albums. Now, there's social media.

Again, same as day one. Doesn't mean the current generation is any more or less focused on portraying something they're not.

 

[NutterButter]

But you know what, a lot of people are still self absorbed facebook addicts who don't do it for the kids, but for the "likes."

Early leader for Post of the Year.

Right, these people aren't doing anything for their kids. It's so they can be recognized by their friends as being the "better" parent and getting the "OMG's" and "likes" on instagram and facebook.

I don't give a crap about that stuff.. but my wife will openly admit that 1/3rd of the pleasure she derives from going on a sweet caribbean vacation is being able to post the photos online and basically letting people know life is good for her.

Social media has allowed people to frame their lives to their public and craft the image they want to portray. Whether it be the picture of their vacation, new car, food, fabulous experience.. etc... people are all about highlighting the good parts of their life to make sure other people think their life is better than it often times is.

People have always done this in some fashion. For older generations, it was inviting other families over for a gathering when they prepped their homes to be spotless and dressed their kids to the 9s and threatened them with punishment if they didn't behave. For more recent ones, it was Christmas cards with obnoxious updates as to how awesome each member of the family is and the keeping of photo albums. Now, there's social media.

Again, same as day one. Doesn't mean the current generation is any more or less focused on portraying something they're not.

Its definitely become more common now b/c of the ease of sharing with social media. Now, every little activity is taken to the next level so that it can be shared with others.

 

[IC FBGCav]

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/03/hey-parents-leave-those-kids-alone/358631/

I seen a documentary on this. There is too much content to post here so I will just post a few paragraphs.

A trio of boys tramps along the length of a wooden fence, back and forth, shouting like carnival barkers. “The Land! It opens in half an hour.” Down a path and across a grassy square, 5-year-old Dylan can hear them through the window of his nana’s front room. He tries to figure out what half an hour is and whether he can wait that long. When the heavy gate finally swings open, Dylan, the boys, and about a dozen other children race directly to their favorite spots, although it’s hard to see how they navigate so expertly amid the chaos. “Is this a junkyard?” asks my 5-year-old son, Gideon, who has come with me to visit. “Not exactly,” I tell him, although it’s inspired by one. The Land is a playground that takes up nearly an acre at the far end of a quiet housing development in North Wales. It’s only two years old but has no marks of newness and could just as well have been here for decades. The ground is muddy in spots and, at one end, slopes down steeply to a creek where a big, faded plastic boat that most people would have thrown away is wedged into the bank. The center of the playground is dominated by a high pile of tires that is growing ever smaller as a redheaded girl and her friend roll them down the hill and into the creek. “Why are you rolling tires into the water?” my son asks. “Because we are,” the girl replies.

It’s still morning, but someone has already started a fire in the tin drum in the corner, perhaps because it’s late fall and wet-cold, or more likely because the kids here love to start fires. Three boys lounge in the only unbroken chairs around it; they are the oldest ones here, so no one complains. One of them turns on the radio—Shaggy is playing (Honey came in and she caught me red-handed, creeping with the girl next door)—as the others feel in their pockets to make sure the candy bars and soda cans are still there. Nearby, a couple of boys are doing mad flips on a stack of filthy mattresses, which makes a fine trampoline. At the other end of the playground, a dozen or so of the younger kids dart in and out of large structures made up of wooden pallets stacked on top of one another. Occasionally a group knocks down a few pallets—just for the fun of it, or to build some new kind of slide or fort or unnamed structure. Come tomorrow and the Land might have a whole new topography.

Other than some walls lit up with graffiti, there are no bright colors, or anything else that belongs to the usual playground landscape: no shiny metal slide topped by a red steering wheel or a tic-tac-toe board; no yellow seesaw with a central ballast to make sure no one falls off; no rubber bucket swing for babies. There is, however, a frayed rope swing that carries you over the creek and deposits you on the other side, if you can make it that far (otherwise it deposits you in the creek). The actual children’s toys (a tiny stuffed elephant, a soiled Winnie the Pooh) are ignored, one facedown in the mud, the other sitting behind a green plastic chair. On this day, the kids seem excited by a walker that was donated by one of the elderly neighbors and is repurposed, at different moments, as a scooter, a jail cell, and a gymnastics bar.

An excerpt from The Land, a documentary by Vermont-based filmmaker Erin DavisThe Land is an “adventure playground,” although that term is maybe a little too reminiscent of theme parks to capture the vibe. In the U.K., such playgrounds arose and became popular in the 1940s, as a result of the efforts of Lady Marjory Allen of Hurtwood, a landscape architect and children’s advocate. Allen was disappointed by what she described in a documentary as “asphalt square” playgrounds with “a few pieces of mechanical equipment.” She wanted to design playgrounds with loose parts that kids could move around and manipulate, to create their own makeshift structures. But more important, she wanted to encourage a “free and permissive atmosphere” with as little adult supervision as possible. The idea was that kids should face what to them seem like “really dangerous risks” and then conquer them alone. That, she said, is what builds self-confidence and courage.

 

[Brony]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

so much wrong there. wow.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

Your boss needs to be punched.

 

[The Commish]

I find doing things WITH my kids is far more satisfying than doing things FOR them.

 

[Jobber]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

Your boss needs to be punched.

Or pranked. Wait two years, then cold call him from your Ivy League school of choice scouting his son.

 

[jwb]

What I find funny is 35-45 y/o parents on Facebook wistfully posting things like "we were the last generation without bike helmets, playdates, riding in the back of pickups, etc etc".

I usually reply with something like "but it's YOU that did this to the kids. YOU'RE the ones who won't just let them play".

 

[sublimeone]

But you know what, a lot of people are still self absorbed facebook addicts who don't do it for the kids, but for the "likes."

Early leader for Post of the Year.

Right, these people aren't doing anything for their kids. It's so they can be recognized by their friends as being the "better" parent and getting the "OMG's" and "likes" on instagram and facebook.

I don't give a crap about that stuff.. but my wife will openly admit that 1/3rd of the pleasure she derives from going on a sweet caribbean vacation is being able to post the photos online and basically letting people know life is good for her.

Social media has allowed people to frame their lives to their public and craft the image they want to portray. Whether it be the picture of their vacation, new car, food, fabulous experience.. etc... people are all about highlighting the good parts of their life to make sure other people think their life is better than it often times is.

People have always done this in some fashion. For older generations, it was inviting other families over for a gathering when they prepped their homes to be spotless and dressed their kids to the 9s and threatened them with punishment if they didn't behave. For more recent ones, it was Christmas cards with obnoxious updates as to how awesome each member of the family is and the keeping of photo albums. Now, there's social media.

Again, same as day one. Doesn't mean the current generation is any more or less focused on portraying something they're not.

Like others have said, the difference is how constant it is. I had to install filters at work to keep people off of Facebook because some people were checking it literally 2-3x an hour. Christmas cards are sent once a year, throwing a party is occasional... Facebook never takes a day off.... ever.... My Facebook wall has become a window into the world of competitive mom'ing.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Walked in for a one on one today my boss was finishing up a call to his wife:

"I'll shoot Jack (aside - lax coach) a note. He probably got caught up in the game and didn't realize JJ hadn't been in the game yet. Naw, he'll appreciate it, I've made the same mistake. It's simple - we're paying $3K a year to be on the travel team, we have every right to expect PT. We'll be getting D-1 and Ivy offers in two years. In not gonna let him #### this up for us."

The kid is 12.

JFC