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"I'm Done Making My Kid's Childhood Magical" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
Enjoy watching your kid stand around for 3 hours.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The competition is between the parents. It's sad. Really, really sad.thecatch said:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
This is why our country is turning into the suck.
Who is raising who here?
Ever hear of "limit setting"?
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Advice of the decade."If you aren't ready to let your kids take command of the household, then don't have kids"
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Just gotta weigh the options.
Go for the magical childhood that leads to a poorly adjusted adult who can't get his #### together
Or a more traditional and normal childhood that leads to a well adjusted adult ready to take the #### that the world throws and him/her, and thrive, without having to run home to mama and dada.
Last year I was at Disney (and god do I hope it was the last time) I ran across a few new mamas and papas who had their 1 year old there. I asked where their other kids were, and of course they said they only had the one. Wow, taking your 1 year old to Disney. Just one notch on the belt of craziness regarding making your kids childhood magical.
Go for the magical childhood that leads to a poorly adjusted adult who can't get his #### together
Or a more traditional and normal childhood that leads to a well adjusted adult ready to take the #### that the world throws and him/her, and thrive, without having to run home to mama and dada.
Last year I was at Disney (and god do I hope it was the last time) I ran across a few new mamas and papas who had their 1 year old there. I asked where their other kids were, and of course they said they only had the one. Wow, taking your 1 year old to Disney. Just one notch on the belt of craziness regarding making your kids childhood magical.
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Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
You're right -- parents don't owe their kids anything. If there's an athletic activity your kids enjoy that helps them develop physically and socially you really shouldn't give them that opportunity if it's going to be too inconvenient.
Do you honestly think doing what you can to enable your kid to participate in a healthy activity he/she enjoys is something you SHOULDN'T do just because it's not super convenient for you? "Sorry honey, I know you love dance but it really messes with my personal time, so we're just going to have to set some limits here."
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Then I guess you are right. It's ALL about the kids. Mommy and daddy get no time for mommy and daddy anymore.
How can that not lead to murder somehow?
How can that not lead to murder somehow?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
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Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Actually, I think you're the one missing that concept. My daughter loves dance. It's a good, healthy activity for her. I owe it to her to figure out how she can do dance if reasonably possible -- including competition if she wants. Why wouldn't I owe her that? I'm pretty sure I never said, or even implied, that mommy and daddy should get no time alone. It's all about prioritizing. All other things being equal, I'll prioritize healthy activities my kids enjoy over most other stuff. Maybe you won't. That's fine. Just don't attack me for prioritizing differently. I never attacked anyone else's choice except in self-defense. I damn sure haven't blamed your decision-making for the decline of America (whatever you meant by that).
Jayrod
Footballguy
We just had my daughters 5th birthday and I thought of this thread. The money spent wasn't an issue, but the time was pretty extensive. Late night putting up homemade decorations, cake made and decorated from scratch, games planned and prepped and the house made spotless for not just one, but two parties. One was for friends and the other for family.
My wife went overboard and I let her know it. Caused a couple of fights because I was so stressed out from work that adding the stupid levels of time needed to help with the party made me pretty irritable. Next time will be simpler.
My wife went overboard and I let her know it. Caused a couple of fights because I was so stressed out from work that adding the stupid levels of time needed to help with the party made me pretty irritable. Next time will be simpler.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Tennessee, I think the biggest issue people are having with your comments is the "owe it to them" part.
The fact is that all we really owe a child is to keep them safe, healthy and teach them. Giving them opportunities can be a luxury, but I and many others don't see it as the responsibility you seem to be making it.
If my kid likes dance, great. She'll get to do some dance lessons, but it will have to be subject to other priorities. For us, those include family time/functions, school, church and financial. If all of those things are taken care of, then and only then will dance classes be taken. It's the same thing with my sons sports. He loves football and has begged to play, but we said no two years in a row for different reasons. He has played basketball and baseball already, but those worked for us.
I think it is good for kids to feel they are important to you, but not the MOST important thing to you. A child is to be a part of the family, not the center of it. Too many families are making their child the focus of the family and that misalignment of priorities is dangerous for both the child and the parents.
The fact is that all we really owe a child is to keep them safe, healthy and teach them. Giving them opportunities can be a luxury, but I and many others don't see it as the responsibility you seem to be making it.
If my kid likes dance, great. She'll get to do some dance lessons, but it will have to be subject to other priorities. For us, those include family time/functions, school, church and financial. If all of those things are taken care of, then and only then will dance classes be taken. It's the same thing with my sons sports. He loves football and has begged to play, but we said no two years in a row for different reasons. He has played basketball and baseball already, but those worked for us.
I think it is good for kids to feel they are important to you, but not the MOST important thing to you. A child is to be a part of the family, not the center of it. Too many families are making their child the focus of the family and that misalignment of priorities is dangerous for both the child and the parents.
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msommer
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
That sounds horrible. Horrible in the sense that 90% of that was a waste of time when looking at the enjoyment factor for your daughter (and I am sure you know this).
Basically just let your wife know that all that planning and time and effort was for her (your wife) and not your daughter. Maybe if you put that into perspective for her it might help a little. Or maybe not, who knows.
Maybe this came out in your arguments, but does your wife really KNOW, I mean really KNOW, that your 5 year old daughter will enjoy the party the same amount if you do it very simple as opposed to all that time an effort?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
AcerFC
Footballguy
even if your kid is the most important?Listen, I get your point, and everyone else in here who agrees with you. I get it. But, I dont have to agree with you. We can argue all day and not change each other's minds.
My kids are the most important thing in my life. If my son has a love for hockey, I will do everything I can to allow him to thrive. I am not competing with other parents, I just love my kid. My wife feels the same. If you dont, that is ok.
When my wife and I decided to have kids, we knew full well what we were getting into. Part of that was tournaments, dance recitals, birthday parties etc.
Now I see the argument turning into my kids not being able to function as adults. I say that is bull####.
Someone posted a childhood story in this thread that I have not stopped thinking about since posted. Something to the effect of their parents were driving the car and the kids were just along for the ride. Im sure they were good parents and the kids turned out great. To me, that is the most selfish thing any parent can do.
Again, many will disagree with me and that is fine. We can agree to disagree
ghostguy123
Footballguy
What he means is..................the child should think the FAMILY is the most important thing. Not them. That decisions are made in the best interest of the entire family, not just them. And for them to know this.
WHich is why I said, nicely put.
Of course your child is the most important thing to you, but that does not mean all your decisions need to revolve around what your child wants or likes.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Once you have kids, they're the primary part of your life. Multiple kids make balancing an absolute necessity.
From what I can see, the only child who has mommy and daddy toting over their every move is a dangerous thing. Raising your kids should be the most important part of your life, but not the only important part.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
As long as your kids know they are not the only important part, you are on the right track for sure.
FUBAR
Footballguy
yeah, they're not there for the kid's sake.
We have family friends who go to Disney every summer. Have gone since they got married, honeymooned there. But nobody is pretending they do it for the kids.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
With these people I ran across, at least the ones I talked to a little, they pretty much said they were there just to see their little bouncing bundle of joy experience disney.
I just wanted to be like "lady, just take whatever thousands of dollars you are spending here that your kid will never remember and put it in some sort of college fund or something".
Now, if you have the money and money is no concern whatsoever, and you as parents really do want to go for yourselves for your own enjoyment then by all means take your one year old, and I would think nothing of it.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Agreed, though I do think you can do fun things with a 1 year old.
We went to Disney when our youngest was 4 months old. But his brothers were 3, 6, and 8.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Do fun thing, but spending money like that is crazy on a one year old unless your finances are top 1%.
Elborare birthday party, same thing. That is for the parents, not the kid.
Elborare birthday party, same thing. That is for the parents, not the kid.
matuski
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Acer I think your view and Jayrods are not incompatible. The key is the kids are part of the family. Of course your #1 job as a parent is to nurture and raise your kids. But if they feel that your priority is their happiness and enjoyment (and not their character and work ethic and other traits) then you are not prioritizing the right things about parenting.
You are raising humans who will become adults. You owe them education, nurture, fun, discipline, character development, wisdom etc. What you don't (and dare I say shouldn't) owe them is to make them happy constantly.
You are raising humans who will become adults. You owe them education, nurture, fun, discipline, character development, wisdom etc. What you don't (and dare I say shouldn't) owe them is to make them happy constantly.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Explain what you guys mean by "dangerous." Just so I'm not hiding the ball here, my family is very much child-focused. Tell me the harmful consequences.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Part of what you "owe" your children is exposure to healthy activities that help them grow and mature. Dance is, by any objective measure, a healthy activity. It's great for coordination, strength, and flexibility as well as social skills and helps her understand that it takes work to be able to achieve something. I don't think it's necessarily any more or less healthy than most any other team sport like softball or soccer or basketball -- all require individual work coupled with intergrating that work into a group setting with lots of different personalities and skill levels. I strongly believe those types of activities are literally "owed" by parents to their kids. My daughter happens to love dance, and that's a pretty reasonable thing for her to love as far as I'm concerned. So I do "owe" it to her to figure out how she can participate in dance, including competition dance, if it's possible. My kids are the center of our family, which is precisely how it should be in my opinion. If I can make them happy while simultaneously engaging them in activities that help them grow physically, mentally, and socially then I'm going to do that. It's part of my obligation to them as their parent.
Don't misunderstand me, my daughter loves dance and is focused on doing it well, but she has no aptitude for it at all. There are a couple girls her age (5) who really get the choreography and can do it with the music very well. My daughter isn't one of them. "Competition dance" doesn't necessarily mean they are great dancers. Some are for sure, but most at her studio are just "regular" level dancers who enjoy doing it. She only did a large ensemble routine. Her competitors at all of the competitions ranged from really good to pretty bad, but from my perspective all of them were having fun at every competition and judging themselves against their own prior performances. My daughter is closer to the "pretty bad" end of the spectrum. And who knows, she may never be really stellar at it. But that's all the more reason why I want her to do as much dance as she wants right now -- she needs the practice and work (a fact reenforced in no uncertain terms by her pediatrician). She's been practicing "shuffle, hop, step" with each leg all around the house for weeks. Half the kids in her class have it down cold already. She is legitimately thrilled when she manages to execute it properly. That's a pretty good thing as far as I'm concerned. There's going to be time enough in the future when her access to teams/activities will become limited based on skill. That's part of growing up. Right now all she needs is a willingness to try and to work to improve. She has that in spades, so I'm not going to become the limiting factor on her just because it may mean I have less free time.
But that's the disconnect: no one said that their kids' enjoyment is their #1 priority, that's what some of the folks here have selectively heard. My kids' enjoyment of an activity that is good for her physical, social, and mental development makes that activity a priority. The bashers have literally likened dance to eating boogers, sitting on your ### all summer, and playing video games all day. Dance is nothing like those activities at all. My daughter asked if she could take the Spanish class at her daycare. I'm making that happen because it makes her happy and it's good for her development. She's fascinated with stage acting after having seen "A Christmas Carol" at a local playhouse. This summer, if she's still interested in it, I'll take her to some acting classes for kids because it makes her happy and it's good for her development. Is she going to grow up to be a professional dancer? Speak fluent Spanish? Be an actor? Probably not, that's never been the litmus test for a parent. If it were, our kids will all work on getting the Smith file on their boss's desk by Friday or servicing the Johnson account instead of stuff like baseball, dance, football, etc.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
It's apparently what is ruining America, at least according to some.Explain what you guys mean by "dangerous." Just so I'm not hiding the ball here, my family is very much child-focused. Tell me the harmful consequences.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Let's just say I'm thankful my in-laws took good care of my wife growing up but didn't cater to her every whim.Explain what you guys mean by "dangerous." Just so I'm not hiding the ball here, my family is very much child-focused. Tell me the harmful consequences.
Meanwhile, my brother-in-law's wife... well she just makes me thankful for my wife.
Doug B
Footballguy
Gemerally: many feel that growing up in a child-focused home makes the transitons from child to teen to adult very difficult. More specifically, there's a shock from going to a world where one is catered to, to a world where one is expected to fend for themselves. Can lead to parents having to continue to "raise" and "parent" 30-somethings who aren't prepared for the "real world".
It really all depends on the specifics of your household and what "child-focused" means to you and your family. Age of kids plays into it, too. If you've got, say, two toddlers and a six-year-old ... yeah, you're household is going to be understandably -- and correctly IMHO -- "child-focused". Fast-forward 8-10 years, however, and if the "child focus" on those three kids is still kind of the same, that's commonly perceived as a developmental problem in the making.
Doug B
Footballguy
Yep.
Don't any of you guys know adults who all too often, aren't really adults? I don't mean acting childish or immature on the surface. I mean adult-level competencies: can't fill their own car with gasoline, can't navigate the DMV, can't budget, can't take care of paperwork, can't call or deal with repair people, etc.
matuski
Footballguy
Our lives revolve around our 6 and 8 year old boys. School, sports, activities, vacations.
Each year that goes by I would say we become less so, but it is only because the demands of the kids lessen.
It used to be school, sports, activities, vacations, getting them dressed, getting their teeth and hair brushed, tying their shoes, blowing their noses.... every single thing required our involvement.
Seems a natural progression from dependence to independence to me.
Each year that goes by I would say we become less so, but it is only because the demands of the kids lessen.
It used to be school, sports, activities, vacations, getting them dressed, getting their teeth and hair brushed, tying their shoes, blowing their noses.... every single thing required our involvement.
Seems a natural progression from dependence to independence to me.
belljr
Footballguy
yepOur lives revolve around our 6 and 8 year old boys. School, sports, activities, vacations.
Each year that goes by I would say we become less so, but it is only because the demands of the kids lessen.
It used to be school, sports, activities, vacations, getting them dressed, getting their teeth and hair brushed, tying their shoes, blowing their noses.... every single thing required our involvement.
Seems a natural progression from dependence to independence to me.
msommer
Footballguy
I agree with this.
My job as a parent (froma societal perspective) is to raise citizens that are capable of acting and living independently of me, in a timespan of about 18-20 years.
There are other requirements, such as behavioural norms etc that will at the very least make my childrens lives easier if they are at least acquainted with dealing with them.
My job is not to make my children feel instantly gratified at all times, certainly not by setting aside any other duties I may have to society to do so.
Even on a personal level, although I want my kids to be happy, safe, successful etc. I do not feel that creating some magical cocoon where wishes or mere whims are catered to on a regular basis forms a solid foundation for future happiness, safety, success etc.
ETA: Dangerous may be a strong word but the notion of a generation of young adults that have had their every wish granted in their entire childhood hitting the streets doesn't make me feel all warm and cheerful inside. China may be dealing with that due to their one child policy, now that the middle class is gaining ground over there it is only going to get more pronounced.
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Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
But that's a huge leap though. You're assuming that since I make my kids my #1 priority, I won't teach them how to function in society as an adult. One doesn't follow the other, not even a little bit. I might as well just make the assumption that you and ghostguy are not going to teach your kids how to function as an adult simply because you don't make your kids your #1 priority. Neither is a valid assumption.
jwb
Footballguy
I see so much of this now. 20-somethings who grew up coddled, and still can't fend for themselves at all. And there's seemingly no plan to ever move out / start their own life. I know 25 year olds who have a useless degree (art history/etc), who work part time, and can't even pay their own car insurance, nevermind rent. That's a parenting fail.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Again, this is a huge assumption that isn't valid. You're taking the extreme and applying it to the entire spectrum. Yes, parents who raise spoiled children who don't know how to function in society do a bad job parenting. You're assuming that describes all (most, many, some) of us who advocate making our kids our #1 priority. It's a little insulting actually. I might as well point out how kids struggle as adults when their parents weren't engaged in their lives when they were younger, then tar you with that brush since you're closer to that extreme of the continuum than I am. Doing that would be more than a little insulting to you, since it would be completely unfair. What you are saying is no different.
FUBAR
Footballguy
don't know if you're replying to me as well, but many of us are making our kids the #1 priority - the difference seems to be how much we cater to their desires.
AcerFC
Footballguy
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
I wasn't including you, since I don't recall you assuming that I'm raising kids who won't be able to function in society because I think I "owe" it to them to figure out a way to allow them to engage in healthy positive activities that they also enjoy. That said, beyond that statement I made, I don't see how in the world you could possibly know how much I "cater to [my kids'] desires".
EDIT: That came across snarkier than I intended it. More than one person has proclaimed that making your kids your #1 priority is flawed parenting because it necessarily follows that those kids will grow up to be, alternately, the souce of all that is wrong with America nowadays or simply maladjusted adults who can't function in society.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
If I keep making fun of the snowflake parents, am I gonna lose my libtard credentials? I don't want to be lumped in with the you-know-whos.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
No, not making that leap at all. I'm looking at a finished product (the "helpless" adult) and making an (admitted) assumption about their upbringing. Also, implicit in this is that I am excluding people with mental illnesses and such. Basically talking about people who should be able to do more for themselves, but never learned how to.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Hes just scared of doing anything. He has a lot of anxiety and has trouble when other children are involved. Im trying to get him to open up but its a constant struggle. Hes also scared of the ball but I think thats less of an issue.Why doesn't he want to do it? Has he ever played before?
There are times you need to push your kids and this is probably one of those times. Assuming he hasn't played before, he has no idea what to expect so he may be scared. Just put him out there and see how he does, IMO. If he hates it later, at least he tried. He may surprise himself...
My oldest (8) always needs some nudging to participate in things and he almost always ends up having a blast.
Doug B
Footballguy
Don't be insulted. "Making our kids the #1 priority" is not a common standard ... it is defined wildly differently by different people. One persons "making them top priority" is another person's "neglect".
Also, not everyone performs the "#1 prioritization" the same way. Some parents make a huge point of making their kids independent in all kinds of ways --- but it's part of their personal take on prioritization of their kids.
For others, "#1 prioritization" means kids do nothing on their own while they're under the parents' roof. Too much of that approach can hurt a chid's transition into later stages of life. But the help/harm line is not necessarily a bright one, and it's not necessarily attributable to all situations.
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