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I'm drinking the Brandon Marshall kool-Aid (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dope
- Start date
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Maybe I should trade up to get him in Z30.......
Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Well, I have to get ahead of Chaos Commish, who picks at 35.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I know what I saw, and the man can play. I don't know if he'll fall to me, but I have decided against drafting him early. There's a few WRs who were drafted earlier in the real draft who probably have better situations and deserve consideration right around the same ADP as Marshall. We certainly boosted his stock by sharing the koolaid. :(Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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Him Norwood, Harrison and Hass are players I'm most interested in following come training camp. Construx already reached a round early for Harrison. If he moves up for Marshall, I'll just cheer for his team (and plan his assassination).
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I know what I saw, and the man can play. I don't know if he'll fall to me, but I have decided against drafting him early. There's a few WRs who were drafted earlier in the real draft who probably have better situations and deserve consideration right around the same ADP as Marshall. We certainly boosted his stock by sharing the koolaid. :(Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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Him Norwood, Harrison and Hass are players I'm most interested in following come training camp. Construx already reached a round early for Harrison. If he moves up for Marshall, I'll just cheer for his team (and plan his assassination).
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Actually, Harrison's Zealots ADP so far is 23 and I took him 4 picks early at 19. Norwood's is 15 and you took him 4 picks early at 11. 
I love his upside, but he is big-time high risk.
If I didn't have a couple of other high risk/high reward type WRs on my dynasty roster (Larry Brackins, David Terrell, & Brandon Williams) I sure would have taken the risk with him, but there's only so much roster space for those kinds of players.
There's no question he's a lightening-in-a-bottle type of guy. If you're depending on him to contribute significantly to your FF team in his 1st two years, I think you're going to be disappointed badly, unless he really does have T.O. caliber talent in him. Smith is probably good for 2 years at least now that Walker is on board & signed for 6 years in DEN, meaning as this season goes on Walker can evolve into the #1 WR and R Smith can devolve into the #2 WR he probably is with his age starting to affect his ability. Lelie appears to have run himself out of a job, so there may be room for Marshall to contribute a little in the first 2 years if Terrell, Devoe, & Adams all end up being bench material - which they could very well be.
If I didn't have a couple of other high risk/high reward type WRs on my dynasty roster (Larry Brackins, David Terrell, & Brandon Williams) I sure would have taken the risk with him, but there's only so much roster space for those kinds of players.
There's no question he's a lightening-in-a-bottle type of guy. If you're depending on him to contribute significantly to your FF team in his 1st two years, I think you're going to be disappointed badly, unless he really does have T.O. caliber talent in him. Smith is probably good for 2 years at least now that Walker is on board & signed for 6 years in DEN, meaning as this season goes on Walker can evolve into the #1 WR and R Smith can devolve into the #2 WR he probably is with his age starting to affect his ability. Lelie appears to have run himself out of a job, so there may be room for Marshall to contribute a little in the first 2 years if Terrell, Devoe, & Adams all end up being bench material - which they could very well be.
and dont forget Domenik Hixon - definitely another top 5 sleeper WR from this class. I would love to be able to have both on a dynasty team.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
The presence of Walker and the wait for Smith's departure make this a tough situation. Hixon isn't the imposing presence that Marshall is, but he is a physical freak. These are two physically tough WRs picked up by Denver, and a two year wait for Rod makes the situation dicey to say the least. The classes behind this one are loaded with awesome to very good WRs making the talent level and uncertainty of this class even more risky for fantasy purposes.Much of my opinion was influenced by the low quality WR talent in this draft.
Dope
Footballguy
okay Chaos Commish, thanks for the drink.The yahoo clips are where?Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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I agree with that wholeheartedly. Looking for WR prospects that had the package of skills to be a #1, Marshall really stood out. There arent many in this class - Travis Wilson, Chad Jackson, Demetrius Williams if he bulks up...The other thing that really got me excited about Marshall was how he consistently got better over the course of the season, culminating in DOMINANT performances in his bowl game and all star game (maybe its something about Hawaii). If you think of his development as a curve, that curve went up and at a higher rate as the year went on - points to possible big things imo.
I like Hixon myself, but one of Hixon or Marshall is going to end up on the taxi squad, I would guess. Hixon may give enough in the return game to merit a spot, which would pretty much end Marshall's possibility of making the regular roster, unless, like I said earlier, he flashes some serious T.O. talent almost immediately. If that's the case, there's going to be some serious bloodshed in the DEN vet WRs. That would indicate cutting 3 of Terrell, Adams, Devoe, & Watts at least - maybe all 4 if Lelie gets his head on straight very quickly.All of a sudden there's lots of competition at WR in DEN. My head is spinning - I don't know how to handle that.
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linkclick on the camera next to his name.okay Chaos Commish, thanks for the drink.The yahoo clips are where?Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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Dope
Footballguy
Big time buffering issues for me there...that's okay. The one play I did see made me think of TO when I was watching him cut and run.linkclick on the camera next to his name.okay Chaos Commish, thanks for the drink.The yahoo clips are where?Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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youll notice a couple of things there that i really like:1) natural hands catcher
2) surprising change of direction for a guy that big
and this reel doesnt include his performance at the hula bowl, which is when i was sold.
The Finist
Footballguy
Nice to see some highlights. A very interesting prospect.linkclick on the camera next to his name.okay Chaos Commish, thanks for the drink.The yahoo clips are where?Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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cstu
Footballguy
I ended up taking him at 16.12 since this thread made sure he wouldn't make it back to me at 18.12. What I liked about Marshall is that he's a team player and him converting to safety for his junior year was impressive. He's going into a situation I really like, with Cutler learning on the sidelines with him. I really think Cutler and Marshall will develop some chemistry and it will show in a couple years when they both become starters. The downside to Marshall is that he's unlikely to do much his rookie or maybe even his 2nd year if Rod Smith keeps playing.I know what I saw, and the man can play. I don't know if he'll fall to me, but I have decided against drafting him early. There's a few WRs who were drafted earlier in the real draft who probably have better situations and deserve consideration right around the same ADP as Marshall. We certainly boosted his stock by sharing the koolaid. :(Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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Him Norwood, Harrison and Hass are players I'm most interested in following come training camp. Construx already reached a round early for Harrison. If he moves up for Marshall, I'll just cheer for his team (and plan his assassination).
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nightshift
Footballguy
Now I'm glad you did!I ended up taking him at 16.12 since this thread made sure he wouldn't make it back to me at 18.12. What I liked about Marshall is that he's a team player and him converting to safety for his junior year was impressive. He's going into a situation I really like, with Cutler learning on the sidelines with him. I really think Cutler and Marshall will develop some chemistry and it will show in a couple years when they both become starters. The downside to Marshall is that he's unlikely to do much his rookie or maybe even his 2nd year if Rod Smith keeps playing.I know what I saw, and the man can play. I don't know if he'll fall to me, but I have decided against drafting him early. There's a few WRs who were drafted earlier in the real draft who probably have better situations and deserve consideration right around the same ADP as Marshall. We certainly boosted his stock by sharing the koolaid. :(Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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Him Norwood, Harrison and Hass are players I'm most interested in following come training camp. Construx already reached a round early for Harrison. If he moves up for Marshall, I'll just cheer for his team (and plan his assassination).
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With the effects of the Kool-Aid wearing off, getting picked by Denver is a very bad situation. Rod Smith, barring injury, probably has at least a couple of good ones left in him, Head-case Walker with get a starting gig along with Headcase Lelie. Add in TE & RB catches, you don't have much left for the rookie.Again, barring injuries, he will see very little playing time over the next 2 years.
In all due respect, NS, if you are basing dynasty rookie picks only on production over the next 2 years, then I think you will regret a lot of your picks.Now I'm glad you did!
Again, barring injuries, he will see very little playing time over the next 2 years.
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
I thought it'd be interesting to see a list of current WRs who are 6'4" and up. I wanted to see if there was some sort of issue with 'too tall' WRs as there appears to be with 'too small' RBs. With names like Bennett, Burress, Key Johnson, Randy Moss, and other successful WRs on the list, being that tall doesn't seem to be a negative.
Code:
6'6" Jones, Matt JAC 6'6" Moore, Clarence BAL 6'5" Bannister, Alex SEA 6'5" Bennett, Drew TEN 6'5" Burress, Plaxico NYG 6'5" Finneran, Brian ATL 6'5" Jackson, Vincent SD 6'5" Jurevicius, Joe CLE 6'5" Osgood, Kassim SD 6'4" Brackins, Larry TB 6'4" Calico, Tyrone TEN 6'4" Gage, Justin CHI 6'4" Gibson, Fred MIA 6'4" Hamilton, Derrick SF 6'4" Henry, Chris CIN 6'4" Jenkins, Michael ATL 6'4" Johnson, Keyshawn CAR6'4" Lyman, Chase NO 6'4" Maxwell, Marcus SF 6'4" McMullen, Billy PHI 6'4" Morant, Johnnie OAK 6'4" Moss, Randy OAK 6'4" Wilford, Ernest JAC 6'4" Williams, Mike DET 6'4" Williams, Reggie JAC 6'4" Marshall, Brandon DEN6'4" Nance, Martin BUF6'4" Stovall, Maurice TB
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cstu
Footballguy
It's the 16th and 17th round - I'm not expecting guys drafted here to be studs this year. Marshall is a long-term project who will hopefully be ready to take over on my team when Bruce retires.Now I'm glad you did!I ended up taking him at 16.12 since this thread made sure he wouldn't make it back to me at 18.12. What I liked about Marshall is that he's a team player and him converting to safety for his junior year was impressive. He's going into a situation I really like, with Cutler learning on the sidelines with him. I really think Cutler and Marshall will develop some chemistry and it will show in a couple years when they both become starters. The downside to Marshall is that he's unlikely to do much his rookie or maybe even his 2nd year if Rod Smith keeps playing.I know what I saw, and the man can play. I don't know if he'll fall to me, but I have decided against drafting him early. There's a few WRs who were drafted earlier in the real draft who probably have better situations and deserve consideration right around the same ADP as Marshall. We certainly boosted his stock by sharing the koolaid. :(Don't forget Chaos Commish was pouring the kool aid before i got a sip. I want him to share the (blame/credit).
watch his highlights on yahoo and tell us what you think.
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Him Norwood, Harrison and Hass are players I'm most interested in following come training camp. Construx already reached a round early for Harrison. If he moves up for Marshall, I'll just cheer for his team (and plan his assassination).
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Wow! Now that I see that list, I think that being tall is a red flag on a WR. For every Moss, Burress, & KeyJohn, you've got 3 Osgoods, Lymans, & Maxwells.I'd disagree. That list makes me think completely differently than I already did about tall WRs - there are a lot of tall busts out there.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
I keep a spreadsheet the likes of which you wouldn't believe. It's now up to 1.2 MB, and just grows and grows as I add new bells and whistles to it.
nightshift
Footballguy
2- 3 yrs on 75% of my picks, 25% 3+ yrs. (rough numbers).You cannot accurately project beyond 3 years, so you're just taking a guess at that point.In all due respect, NS, if you are basing dynasty rookie picks only on production over the next 2 years, then I think you will regret a lot of your picks.Now I'm glad you did!
Again, barring injuries, he will see very little playing time over the next 2 years.
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WIN now & WIN later.
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cstu
Footballguy
I agree with you and you did a good job of getting a mix of young/old, but your pick of Aaron Rodgers is just as risky as Brandon Marshall.2- 3 yrs on 75% of my picks, 25% 3+ yrs. (rough numbers).You cannot accurately project beyond 3 years, so you're just taking a guess at that point.In all due respect, NS, if you are basing dynasty rookie picks only on production over the next 2 years, then I think you will regret a lot of your picks.Now I'm glad you did!
Again, barring injuries, he will see very little playing time over the next 2 years.
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WIN now & WIN later.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Fixed.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
My opinion:Tall WRs = more mass = more difficult to get seperation from NFL CBs >> Leaping ability
Couch Potato
Footballguy
But Pony Boy, that's not really a fair statement unless you examine whether it might be true at all heights. Maybe the same ratio of 6'1" guys or 5'11" guys are successes too. I really don't know. Tell you what. I'll list all 6'0" guys and you can judge for yourself. I picked 6'0" just because it seems about the norm, with as many WRs at that height as any other. I'm not evaluating this list, I'm just putting it out there (by the way, my spreadsheet might not be 100% up to date right now. I sometimes miss offseason transactions).
Code:
6'0" Avant, Jason PHI6'0" Blackmon, Will GB6'0" Booker, Marty MIA 6'0" Bruce, Isaac STL 6'0" Burleson, Nate SEA6'0" Caldwell, Reche NE 6'0" Carter, Jason MIN6'0" Carter, Tim NYG 6'0" Copper, Terrance DAL 6'0" Cotchery, Jerricho NYJ 6'0" Crayton, Patrick DAL 6'0" Driver, Donald GB 6'0" Ford, Carl CHI 6'0" Gilmore, Bryan SF 6'0" Givens, David TEN 6'0" Hankton, Cortez JAC 6'0" Harrison, Marvin IND 6'0" Hass, Mike NO6'0" Holt, Torry STL 6'0" Jacobs, Taylor WAS 6'0" Kilmer, Ethan CIN6'0" Lewis, Greg PHI 6'0" Lloyd, Brandon WAS 6'0" Looker, Dane STL 6'0" Parker, Eric SD 6'0" Pathon, Jerome ATL 6'0" Ponder, Willie NYG 6'0" Proehl, Ricky CAR 6'0" Roby, Courtney TEN 6'0" Rodgers, Cory GB6'0" Smith, Rod DEN 6'0" Stallworth, Donte' NO 6'0" Swinton, Reggie ARI 6'0" Taylor, Jamaar NYG 6'0" Thrash, James WAS 6'0" Tyree, David NYG 6'0" Ward, Hines PIT 6'0" Wayne, Reggie IND 6'0" White, Roddy ATL 6'0" Whitted, Alvis OAK 6'0" Williams, Roydell TEN 6'0" Wilson, George BUF
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Barry Jive and The Uptown Five
Footballguy
One aspect that many are missing...
If you're a Rod Smith owner, BM is a great mid-round rookie pick.
He has time to develop behind the aging vet you've relied on for years. He can be thought of as a handcuff for either DEN WR as well... injuries and the like.
If you're a Rod Smith owner, BM is a great mid-round rookie pick.
He has time to develop behind the aging vet you've relied on for years. He can be thought of as a handcuff for either DEN WR as well... injuries and the like.
nightshift
Footballguy
Risky, yes. But as high as Marshall. no way. Rodgers is the #2 QB, a former first round pick, behind a VET that wants to retire every 10 minutes or so. Marshall is at best 4th man on a WR roster.I agree with you and you did a good job of getting a mix of young/old, but your pick of Aaron Rodgers is just as risky as Brandon Marshall.2- 3 yrs on 75% of my picks, 25% 3+ yrs. (rough numbers).You cannot accurately project beyond 3 years, so you're just taking a guess at that point.In all due respect, NS, if you are basing dynasty rookie picks only on production over the next 2 years, then I think you will regret a lot of your picks.Now I'm glad you did!
Again, barring injuries, he will see very little playing time over the next 2 years.
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WIN now & WIN later.
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No, no, no. You misunderstand me. I always had a notion that height was a huge advantage for WRs and so I'd favor a taller WR over a shorter WR given the opportunity to pick them came up in a dynasty rookie draft. I gave taller WRs an edge with really nothing to support that other than NFL team's seeming love for height at the position.Now seeing your list, I really don't see my preconceived notion being supported. It's an assumption of mine that was apparently wrong. In fact, I started being suspicious of this as we started seeing some great success by smaller WRs in the past couple of years. This just reinforces how wrong my prejudices were. This is on me, not on anyone else.
cstu
Footballguy
Sorted by year and round drafted:6'4" Johnson, Keyshawn CAR 1996 1st round
6'4" Moss, Randy OAK 1998 1st round
6'5" Jurevicius, Joe CLE 1998 2nd round
6'5" Finneran, Brian ATL 1998 UDFA
6'5" Burress, Plaxico NYG 2000 1st round
6'5" Bannister, Alex SEA 2001 5th round, 2003 Pro Bowl ST
6'5" Bennett, Drew TEN 2001 UDFA
6'4" Calico, Tyrone TEN 2003 2nd round, ACL
6'4" McMullen, Billy PHI 2003 3rd round, 4.65 speed
6'4" Gage, Justin CHI 2003 5th round, 4.6 speed
6'5" Osgood, Kassim SD 2003 UDFA, 4.7 speed, mostly ST's
6'4" Williams, Reggie JAC 2004 1st round, 4.55 speed
6'4" Jenkins, Michael ATL 2004 1st Round, 4.4 speed
6'4" Hamilton, Derrick 2004 3rd round, ACL
6'4" Wilford, Ernest JAC 2004 4th round
6'4" Morant, Johnnie OAK 2004 5th round
6'6" Moore, Clarence BAL 2004 6th round
6'4" Williams, Mike DET 2005 1st round, 4.6 speed
6'6" Jones, Matt JAC 2005 1st round, 4.4 speed
6'5" Jackson, Vincent SD 2005 2nd round
6'4" Henry, Chris CIN 2005 3rd round, 4.5 speed
6'4" Gibson, Fred MIA 2005 4th round, 4.55 speed
6'4" Lyman, Chase NO 2005 4th round, ACL
6'4" Brackins, Larry TB 2005 5th round, Played at CC, 4.65 speed
6'4" Maxwell, Marcus SF 2005 7th round
6'4" Stovall, Maurice TB 2006 3rd round
6'4" Marshall, Brandon DEN 2006 4th round
6'4" Nance, Martin BUF 2006 UDFA
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
OK gotcha. You're not saying being tall is a disadvantage, only that it may not be the advantage you had thought it was.I think height can be an advantage if the WR learns how to use his body to his advantage, but it's only one aspect of the total WR package. If he can't separate from coverage, doesn't have good hands, makes his cuts in routes poorly, etc. etc. etc. then that height advantage doesn't really matter.
and to bring this full circle, Marshall definitely has a natural feel for using his frame to his advantage. And his strength and physical style of play.
<--- brandon marshall ale
cstu
Footballguy
What's your take on him being the 17th WR picked, was it due to inexperience, his school, or something else?and to bring this full circle, Marshall definitely has a natural feel for using his frame to his advantage. And his strength and physical style of play.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Does that taste like Mike Williams ale?and to bring this full circle, Marshall definitely has a natural feel for using his frame to his advantage. And his strength and physical style of play.
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Couch Potato
Footballguy
Sigmund - Marshall and Vincent Jackson are both tall WRs who dominated a lower level of competition in college. What would you say it was that made Jackson worth a 2nd round pick vs. Marshall's 4th round status? Who would you rather have on your dynasty team?
SD
McCardell - soon to retire
Parker - small, possession type
Woods - 1st rounder has shown nothing so far
TE Gates - dominant
DEN
Smith - soon to retire
Walker - potentially dominant
Lelie - 1st rounder is as good as gone
TE - Scheffler - good hands rookie w/upside
SD
McCardell - soon to retire
Parker - small, possession type
Woods - 1st rounder has shown nothing so far
TE Gates - dominant
DEN
Smith - soon to retire
Walker - potentially dominant
Lelie - 1st rounder is as good as gone
TE - Scheffler - good hands rookie w/upside
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inexperience, some character questions, some questions about being too bigWhat's your take on him being the 17th WR picked, was it due to inexperience, his school, or something else?and to bring this full circle, Marshall definitely has a natural feel for using his frame to his advantage. And his strength and physical style of play.
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thats fair, but remember how highly regarded mike williams was. we're talking about someone you had to get in the top 10 of rookie drafts vs. someone you can get in the mid 20s.Does that taste like Mike Williams ale?and to bring this full circle, Marshall definitely has a natural feel for using his frame to his advantage. And his strength and physical style of play.
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I think Jackson went higher because A) jackson is faster, and has good speed for a WR of just about any size and B) the talent level in the 2006 draft was better than the 2005 draft.I would rather have Marshall, but removing my marshall believer glasses, im sure jackson has more value.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Very true. Getting him at a decent value isn't bad at all. 26th overall in a Dynasty league is pretty high in my opinion, but he could certainly prove me wrong.thats fair, but remember how highly regarded mike williams was. we're talking about someone you had to get in the top 10 of rookie drafts vs. someone you can get in the mid 20s.Does that taste like Mike Williams ale?and to bring this full circle, Marshall definitely has a natural feel for using his frame to his advantage. And his strength and physical style of play.
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Renegades of Funk
Footballguy
Decided to take a look at some of the WR highlights at Yahoo. I come away impressed with Travis Wilson - looks like a similar player to Chad Jackson that can be picked up much later in rookie drafts.
