In their primes who was best: K Greene, P Swilling, G Lloyd, or D Thom (1 Viewer)

[Assani Fisher]

First question: You can have Pat Swilling, Greg Lloyd, Derrick Thomas, or Kevin Greene in their primes on your team. You can build around them however you want, so don't take the current situation of your favorite team into consideration here. And lets pretend that all you care about is winning immediately so ignore longevity. Who would you most want and who would be your second choice?

Second question: If you could have any RB in their prime from the past 20 or so years, how many RBs would you rather have than Emmitt Smith? As with above, assume that you can build around the RB however you want and install a system that maximizes his strenghts. And also like above, ignore longevity completely and only focus on their ability during their prime.

With both questions please ignore all personal preferences and only focus on trying to win the most possible football games in your choices.

 

[IHEARTFF]

If you only care about 1 season, then:

1 Derrick Thomas 1990

2 Pat Swilling 1991

3 Kevin Greene 1989

4 Greg Lloyd 1993

1 Barry Sanders 1997

2 Marshall Faulk 2000

3 Ladainian Tomlinson 2006

4 Thurman Thomas 1991

5 Terrell Davis 1998

6 Emmitt Smith 1995

7 Priest Holmes 2002

8 Edgerrin James 2000

9 Jamal Lewis 2003

10 Steven Jackson 2006

 

[RBM]

1 Thomas was just a monster off the edge. He is def 1st on that list. Swilling 2nd slightly over Greene

2 Sanders and LT

 

[Assani Fisher]

If you only care about 1 season, then:1 Derrick Thomas 19902 Pat Swilling 19913 Kevin Greene 19894 Greg Lloyd 19931 Barry Sanders 19972 Marshall Faulk 20003 Ladainian Tomlinson 20064 Thurman Thomas 19915 Terrell Davis 19986 Emmitt Smith 19957 Priest Holmes 20028 Edgerrin James 20009 Jamal Lewis 200310 Steven Jackson 2006

Thanks for your input, but I'm more interested in what exactly you're basing this off of than your actual lists. Why did you chose the order you chose?edited to add: Same goes for everyone else. This topic has come about based upon a few debates me and some friends had. We'd be much more interested in hearing reasoning than just pure votes, as pure votes probably won't sway our opinions but we'd love to get some input that we may have been overlooking.

 

[IHEARTFF]

In my opinion, the biggest effect an outside linebacker should have is to wreak havoc in the backfield and pressure the quarterback. Derrick Thomas did so better than any of those guys. 1 great play by him could change the game completely. The seasons I have listed are their best efforts. Certainly run stopping matters also, but every team should have several guys to stop the run. If you can rush the quarterback, you can make a team fairly ineffective.

As far as running backs go, lots of yardage rushing and receiving as well as game changing ability are keys. Judging running backs is a little bit tougher. All 10 of those seasons were outstanding, and Barry Sanders did the most with a mediocre team surrounding him. I couldn't imagine what he could have done with a great line and qb.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Cool, thanks. I don't want to give away which side of the debate I'm on, but heres three things that have been brought up in our discussions that I'm also interested in hearing thoughts on:

1. Greg Lloyd is tremendously underrated because he didn't put up huge stats and the media didn't like him. However, most Steelers homers will probably be able to tell you how good he really is.

2. Barry is the best pure runner of all time, but he struggles at the little things such as short yardage situations, pass blocking, recieving, leadership, and so on. Conversely Emmitt was great at those things. How much does this impact your rankings?

3. Emmitt had an obscene number of regular season touches each year plus his team also went deep into the playoffs. One year he held out of training camp and the first two games(and the team went 0-2) and that year he far and away put up his best ypc of his career. This would lead us to believe that Emmitt is even better than his stats indicated because he was constantly getting worn down and his numbers suffered a bit as a result.

Thoughts on any or all of those statements?

 

[Moniker]

Thomas, with Swilling second.

4 over Emmitt:

Thurman

LT

Faulk

Barry

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

1. Greg Lloyd is tremendously underrated because he didn't put up huge stats and the media didn't like him. However, most Steelers homers will probably be able to tell you how good he really is.Thoughts on any or all of those statements?

Add in the fact that his career was cut short with injuries and he's bordeline loony. When Lloyd was in his prime, he was one seriously nasty mofo. I don't recall watching Swilling ever, I've only read his highlights and stats. I'm not going to try to say that Lloyd was better than Swilling, but I agree that he was tremendously underrated. He was All-Pro three consecutive years (more than Thomas or Greene), I think a lot of people forget/don't know that.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Cool, thanks. I don't want to give away which side of the debate I'm on, but heres three things that have been brought up in our discussions that I'm also interested in hearing thoughts on:1. Greg Lloyd is tremendously underrated because he didn't put up huge stats and the media didn't like him. However, most Steelers homers will probably be able to tell you how good he really is.2. Barry is the best pure runner of all time, but he struggles at the little things such as short yardage situations, pass blocking, recieving, leadership, and so on. Conversely Emmitt was great at those things. How much does this impact your rankings?3. Emmitt had an obscene number of regular season touches each year plus his team also went deep into the playoffs. One year he held out of training camp and the first two games(and the team went 0-2) and that year he far and away put up his best ypc of his career. This would lead us to believe that Emmitt is even better than his stats indicated because he was constantly getting worn down and his numbers suffered a bit as a result.Thoughts on any or all of those statements?

1. Maybe Lloyd is underrated because of his media persona problems and non-superb stats. I could concede that I guess. Maybe he looked better at the combine than Greene, but I don't really know if that matters. Does it?2. Barry did admittadly struggle at pass blocking where Smith was solid. I think Barry would have been better at short yardage and goalline runs behind a better offensive line. Don't you? I don't think he really struggled at receiving compared to Smith. However, he definitely did not excel at it like Faulk or LT who are outstanding receiving options. I can't really comment on either's leadership as I don't really know what went on in locker room, etc.3. Maybe Smith could have had better numbers without all that wear and tear. But he didn't really have the short high peak as some others like a Terrell Davis did. Smith's strength was he could grind out 4 yards a carry all game all season long. There's a lot of value in that no doubt. But for a short win now situation, I would prefer the others I listed. In a keeper situation, Smith would def rank in top 3.

 

[Koya]

Thomas without question as the top defensive player of that group.

Ahead of Emmitt in their prime:

B Sanders

Faulk

T Thomas

LT2

If it falls within the 20 years... Dickerson.

 

[nashua55]

#95 G. Lloyd in my opinion. He is my all-time favorite Steeler. The guy put the toughness back in Pittsburgh when he was playing. He didnt just hit a Qb he punished them. He played fast and hit even harder. An intimidator that backed it up with his play. He wasnt just a pass rusher. He could play the run and dropped back in coverage. It is nice to see him linked with other great players like Greene , Swilling, and D. Thomas.

 

[heidbrink]

Thomas is one of my all time favorite players. Could definately build around him. Remember though, Thomas' Chiefs also had a very talented defense besides him, including Smith at the other end. Ahhhh....seems forever ago since "that" Chiefs team...Soooooo close with Joe Montana.

O.J. Simpson

 

[Dt's Mules]

without reading responses, I chose Dt, because my name is Dt though spelled a little differently...but for a real reason, an outside linebacker that gets to the qb and causes fumbles is a lot harder to find than someone to plug holes and rack up tackles. Those guys are a lot easier to find. But someone who can disrupt the entire passing game, those are very hard to find.

I went no other above smith, sure there were others that were better runners, others that were better pass catchers, maybe even a few that were better in pass protection, but no other was better than him at all of those. Also, he was excellent at playing smart (i.e. getting out of bounds when the extra yard didn't matter, but fighting hard when it did). Also, he could play at a high level while hurt.

 

[TidesofWar]

It is an outrage that DT, my old friend, is not in the HOF

He is far and away the #1 choice on that list

 

[azgroover]

I scored it as follows:

Thomas

Swilling

Greene

Lloyd

No scientific statistical analysis or anything. Just going off of my recollection of who dominated games that I happened to be watching. Minus Swilling's Lions years of course.

 

[BobboFitos]

Hey guys, I'm the guy who drafted Derrick Thomas. Frankly I was shocked, too, that someone else suggested (insisted, more like it) Lloyd was better.

As for the Emmit argument, in the actual draft the people taken above him were LT2, Sanders, Dickerson, and Faulk. I think they all went deservedly ahead of him. Holmes, Thurman, Edge, and Terrell have since been taken, and I think there is a case all of those guys have more value. (Although it's close) In a dynasty draft, I think Emmit is probably the best (or top 3) for sure, but given the rules (peak/near peak production) I don't think he's on par with those guys mentioned.

 

[gkza]

Swilling was the beast on a team that one year featured 4 Pro Bowl Starters! That will probably never happen again.

He was a sack machine. If you go back and look at those early 90's Saints teams, the offense was nothing special. Swilling led the Saints from a perrenial doormat to a double digit win team and serious playoff contender. Although he was not quite the same when he left the Saints, he was an elite talent. DT may have a better body of work overall but for several season Swilling was the best LB in the NFL.

 

[BroadwayG]

Thomas, Lloyd, Swillling, Greene

31+ for Emmitt. He might be the second most over-rated player behind Unitas.