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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Phil Perry was leading the charge the other night in a discussion on the coaching staff and their collective future. He said there is no chance anyone will be losing their jobs, and everyone will be back next year. He echoed what you posted (everyone knew this year would be messy). But he also brought up the start of the BB era. He assembled a staff that hadn't exactly lit the world on fire, he compiled some players that were from the Island of Misfit Toys, the team did worse in his debut season, and he already wasn't thrilled with their $100M QB. Yet Bill and his staff were invited back (which went against what the fans and media wanted at the time).
Of course, PP pointed out how things went in Year 2. He sounded like the rest of the naysayers on the panel, Phil also said that Mayo was anointed and blessed by the hand of Kraft, which in Phil's mind cemented that everyone would be back. We'll see if Perry changes his tune if the team continues to look less than stellar on the field and less than happy with each other in the locker room.
Boston
Footballguy
I like Perry but comparing Mayo and BB is stupid...BB was a former HC (who got to the playoffs) who won two Super Bowls as a DC and was universally seen as a brilliant football mind (whether he was a legit HC was still a question...but he had a long track record in the NFL)...Mayo is absolutely none of that...zip, zero, nada...Mayo is an unknown quantity who as of right now has shown very little...he can't even figure out which way the wind was blowing in overtime...stuff like that is just unacceptable and his resume does not show anything that it will change as he learns on the job.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Exactly. There's a big gap experience wise from 2000 BB staff to 2024 Mayo staff. For this year we're talking about a head coach in his first year as a head coach anywhere, an offensive coordinator who, while he held the title in Cleveland, only called plays for one game the entire time while Stefanski called the rest, and a defensive coordinator who never called plays at the NFL level until this year.
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...I only mentioned BB above but as you state the staffs are not remotely comparable.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not sure what they are doing. Bourne played 78% of the snaps the last two weeks after coming back from rehabbing his knee. Multiple teams inquired about him before the trade deadline. He was apparently told today he is unlikely to play because they want to give the younger guys more playing time. Then why didn’t they trade him? Dumb.
Well, well, well.
I tell ya, Chicago's offensive line must be a real disaster. 9 sacks? And I'd consider NE's D...not very good.
Maye looked like the better QB vs. Caleb. That's a tough pass D in Chicago and he managed the game real well outside of that dumb pick.
Everyone talks about his rifle arm, but man, he can really put some touch on the ball. He also made a couple...hate to say it...Mahommes type passes where he was under pressure and then flicked the ball out to the side like it was a backyard pickup game.
Continue to like what I see.
I tell ya, Chicago's offensive line must be a real disaster. 9 sacks? And I'd consider NE's D...not very good.
Maye looked like the better QB vs. Caleb. That's a tough pass D in Chicago and he managed the game real well outside of that dumb pick.
Everyone talks about his rifle arm, but man, he can really put some touch on the ball. He also made a couple...hate to say it...Mahommes type passes where he was under pressure and then flicked the ball out to the side like it was a backyard pickup game.
Continue to like what I see.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Both of Chicago's starting tackles were hurt, and they were cobbling together a makeshift unit that had never played together before. That being said, I put some of the sacks on Williams. I don't think the pressure by NE was that great . . . the plays just took forever to develop and Williams didn't do anything except stand there and hold the ball. When he saw no one was open, he needed to throw the ball away or take off and run, and he did neither.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To follow up on my questioning of the front office, it was reported everywhere that teams had inquired about the availability of the Pats' veteran receivers at the deadline last week" Bourne, Osborn, and Thornton. As we all, know they help onto all three of them. The first game after the deadline, they played Osborn 29 snaps and Bourne and Thorton 0. For all the talk about giving Baker a shot, he played 4 snaps on offense. The final snap counts yesterday were Boutte 62, Osborn 29, Douglas 27, Polk 26, and Baker 4. They played Henry (57) and Hooper (41) more plays. Why sign Bourne to a 3-year, $19.5 million contract in the offseason if they had no intention of playing him . . . or trading him? The youn receivers have been the ones acting up . . . and Bourne is the one they decide to bench? I really don't get what they are doing.
Is it possible that Bourne hasn't really come around health wise? That's the only explanation I can think of.
On the flip side, I'm happy to see Boutte make a bit of an impact. And maybe Polk will have some confidence now.
Bossman
Footballguy
2024 Draft, Patriots trade picks #34 and #137 to the Chargers for picks #37 and #110
at #34 Chargers took Ladd McConkey (43/615/4TD) and #137 CB Tarheeb Still (played 376 snaps this year)
at #37 the Patriots landed Ja'Lynn Polk (11/80/2TD) and at #110 Javon Baker (played 19 snaps this year)
Ouch
at #34 Chargers took Ladd McConkey (43/615/4TD) and #137 CB Tarheeb Still (played 376 snaps this year)
at #37 the Patriots landed Ja'Lynn Polk (11/80/2TD) and at #110 Javon Baker (played 19 snaps this year)
Ouch
Boston
Footballguy
I have been thinking about this one...I think 99.9% of Pats fan were begging them to draft him as well which makes it hurt more...the McConkey part is bad enough but the fact that the move-up was for Baker makes you want to vomit.
They passed on A. Mitchell as well.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I don’t know if I want this group drafting again next year. I know it’s early but it’s looking like another abject failure of a draft. I guess you could say we got our QB so it’s all good but it’s a stretch giving them a lot of credit for that. There were 3 top QBs and they grabbed the guy who dropped to #3, not exactly parade worthy.
Boston
Footballguy
It is amazing how awful they have been at drafting WRs for the last 25 years.
Boston
Footballguy
Totally agree...Maye was an easy pick...if they had done something like Maye over Caleb then I would give them credit (although still early on that one)...the rest of the class is looking worse by the week...the only one I am optimistic about is Robinson...they cannot screw-up this offseason...they will have a top 5-10 pick and a boatload of $...after this year as well as knowing Wolf was part of BB's inner-circle of bad drafting I don't know how you can feel confident he should be making the decisions on an offseason that will pretty much dictate whether they move forward or not...amateur hour is over...let's bring in some adults.
Bossman
Footballguy
Here's another perspective:
Polk 11/80/2TD (season)
McConkey 6/111/2TD (week 7 vs Saints)
Boston
Footballguy
The odd part is there was nothing but positive reports on Polk in the pre-season.
Bossman
Footballguy
To be fair, the LAC play calling and QB play is lightyears ahead of NE's ....
but watching McConkey highlights week after week is sickening.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
Hated it then and hate it even more now. Though Adonai Mitchell was the guy I really wanted them to take in the 2nd. Might’ve been for the best for Mitchell as I really question this organization’s ability to develop wide receivers beyond the handful of outliers in the Belichick years.
Boston
Footballguy
If they needed a QB I would say tank but since they don’t I would rather win some games and be more attractive to free agents.
Nope.
Definitely would like to see Maye and this crew get a couple signature wins, some confidence, and the sense we have a chance to build from there (vs. others like the NYGs, Jets, etc who are swirling around the toilet bowl).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't think it matters what their draft slot will be, as I have very little confidence in the upper brass and draft evaluators landing the right guys. They didn't have to decide to draft Maye . . . he fell to them and that was an uncontested layup. This year's draft beyond Maye is littered with mediocre picks. Wolf and Groh were heavily involved in the 2022 and 2023 drafts (and to a lesser extent several drafts before those). That pairing landed them Gonzalez and White . . . but not much beyond those two players. Maye needs a lot of help, and what was expected to be a top tier defense has been anything but. I hate to say it, but now that it looks like Maye is a keeper, they may be better off pivoting to some more established coaches and a different group of draft evaluators that know what they are doing. IMO, that would infuse the team with guys that know how to develop and draft players. I also think that would expedite the rebuild and get them to being contenders a lot faster.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
That ship’s already sailed unfortunately, he signed with KC earlier in the day:
Reports: LT D.J. Humphries to sign with Chiefs
The Chiefs are signing free agent left tackle D.J.
www.nbcsports.com
Boston
Footballguy
Pats are currently slotted with the #4 pick...with their remaining schedule it's tough to find a win...oddly enough week 18 against Buffalo could be their best bet if Buffalo were in a situation where they sat their starters...hopefully they will still be competing for the #1 seed with KC and will need to win that game...here are the schedules for the Pats and the teams currently slotted above them:
Pats-Bye, @AZ, @Buff, LAC, Buff
NYG-NO, Balt, @Atl, Ind, @Philly
LV-2 TBay, Atl, Jax, @NO, LAC
Jax-@Tenn, NYJ, @LV, Tenn, @Indy
Vegas plays Jax so that means the Pats will move up to at least #3 assuming they lose out...can't picture NYG and LV not drafting a QB if they end up either #1 or #2...if Jax ends up at #1 or #2 they aren't drafting a QB....If the Pats end up either #1 or #2 or are #3 and Jax is ahead of them and doesn't trade out they would probably be in a position to entertain an offer from a QB-needy team...right now there are no teams with multiple first-rounders in this year's draft.
The Pats two biggest needs are very obvious...WR and O-line (especially Tackle)...the more I look at that and this year's prospects it may make sense to go after Hunter or McMillan with that top 3 or 4 pick...I would have zero issues if they went Tackle but if they could grab a potential franchise/#1 WR and not have to overpay in free agency to obtain one that would allow them to use a lot of their $ and other picks on the line and other areas of need...overall they need help everywhere except QB but IMO the most important thing is surrounding Maye with the weapons and protection to advance his development ASAP.
Pats-Bye, @AZ, @Buff, LAC, Buff
NYG-NO, Balt, @Atl, Ind, @Philly
LV-2 TBay, Atl, Jax, @NO, LAC
Jax-@Tenn, NYJ, @LV, Tenn, @Indy
Vegas plays Jax so that means the Pats will move up to at least #3 assuming they lose out...can't picture NYG and LV not drafting a QB if they end up either #1 or #2...if Jax ends up at #1 or #2 they aren't drafting a QB....If the Pats end up either #1 or #2 or are #3 and Jax is ahead of them and doesn't trade out they would probably be in a position to entertain an offer from a QB-needy team...right now there are no teams with multiple first-rounders in this year's draft.
The Pats two biggest needs are very obvious...WR and O-line (especially Tackle)...the more I look at that and this year's prospects it may make sense to go after Hunter or McMillan with that top 3 or 4 pick...I would have zero issues if they went Tackle but if they could grab a potential franchise/#1 WR and not have to overpay in free agency to obtain one that would allow them to use a lot of their $ and other picks on the line and other areas of need...overall they need help everywhere except QB but IMO the most important thing is surrounding Maye with the weapons and protection to advance his development ASAP.
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Would go Hunter in a heartbeat.
He seems like the no brainer "best player in the draft" and like Maye falling to them where it was a situation where the top brass really didn't have to think, this would be another situation where their brains would be off and they just make the pick.
I don't trust this crew to trade down, get more picks, and then pick correctly.
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...no need to trade down to obtain more Javon Bakers...I really hope they address the front-office after the season...just don't see how they can be confident that Wolf is the guy to lead this rebuild.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not a huge fan of taking a WR in the Top 5. At least historically that hasn't had a big impact on teams winning. Going back to the start of the salary cap era (1994), there have been 14 WR selected in the Top 5. For those that are curious who those guys were . . . Ja'Marr Chase, Corey Davis, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Justin Blackmon, A.J. Green, Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald, Charles Rogers, Andre Johnson, Peter Warrick, Keyshawn Johnson, and Michael Westbrook.
Only considering the games they played for the teams that drafted them, they combined to go 553.5-666.5 (.454). In the postseason, they went 17-20 (.459). Only 2 of them went to a SB (Chase and Fitzgerald). Five guys didn't make the playoffs and 8 never won a playoff game (again, for the teams that drafted them).
I get it. Every franchise, every player, every draft, and every situation is completely different. That list has a blend of HOFers, decent contributors, and total busts. It's not a WR's fault his team, QB, GM, or head coach is terrible. But as things stand now, couldn't we say that about NE? Sure, Maye looks solid . . . but how many other positives are there? Put another way, NE has a ton of needs . . . and I am not sure WR tops the list. IMO, if they fix other areas, they may find it easier to get production out of receivers than getting a top receiver and continuing to have OL issues.
As far as Hunter goes, I have seen several places that suggest he has more upside as a CB than WR and that he most likely will be asked to stick to one position in the NFL. Not sure he will be allowed to play both sides of the ball.
Only considering the games they played for the teams that drafted them, they combined to go 553.5-666.5 (.454). In the postseason, they went 17-20 (.459). Only 2 of them went to a SB (Chase and Fitzgerald). Five guys didn't make the playoffs and 8 never won a playoff game (again, for the teams that drafted them).
I get it. Every franchise, every player, every draft, and every situation is completely different. That list has a blend of HOFers, decent contributors, and total busts. It's not a WR's fault his team, QB, GM, or head coach is terrible. But as things stand now, couldn't we say that about NE? Sure, Maye looks solid . . . but how many other positives are there? Put another way, NE has a ton of needs . . . and I am not sure WR tops the list. IMO, if they fix other areas, they may find it easier to get production out of receivers than getting a top receiver and continuing to have OL issues.
As far as Hunter goes, I have seen several places that suggest he has more upside as a CB than WR and that he most likely will be asked to stick to one position in the NFL. Not sure he will be allowed to play both sides of the ball.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I'd prefer a top offensive tackle but it doesn't sound like there aren't any worth the 4th overall pick in this year's class, whereas Tetairoa McMillan is considered worthy of a top 5 pick. We'll see what changes between now and the end of the Combine of course. But I understand wanting to give Maye a premium WR prospect, considering no WR wants to sign with the Pats in free agency. I'm not sure even the prospect of playing with Maye is enough considering all the other downsides at the moment. This front office is still a joke as is the coaching staff.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Andrew Callahan mentioned on the radio that AVP was the 12th person they interviewed for the OC job this past offseason . . . and there were multiple guys that declined interviews. No one wanted the job. Not sure at this point if Van Pelt's job is considered safe or not. I wonder if they would have a similar issue this coming offseason. Sure, they have Maye . . . but not much else. Any of the current top OC candidates will demand to be a head coach. If there are any trendy guys that want to be an OC, would they have any interest in coming to NE and having to work with Mayo and that front office? At this point, I probably think the front office and coaching staff may be bigger problems than the roster . . . and we know the roster needs a lot of work. The defense has mostly the same players and took a turn for the worst (especially considering it's the same defensive coaches minus BB).
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Perfect spot in the draft as the Raiders and Giants are likely to go QB. Love to see Travis Hunter in a Pats uniform.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
PFF grades for Pats' players with 4 games to go . . .
Bold AND underlined = Top 10% at that position
Bold = Top 25% at that position
Underlined = Top 50% at that position
QB (66 qualified): Maye 30, Brissett 49
RB (49 qualified): Gibson 28, Stevenson 30
WR (98 qualified): Douglas 49, Boutte 91
TE (37 qualified): Hooper 9, Henry 14
T (133 qualified): Thomas 74, Lowe 94, Wallace 96, Jacobs 129
G (125 qualified): Onwenu 48, Jordan 106, Robinson 114, Sow 125
C (60 qualifies): Andrews 40, Brown 56
CB (213 qualified): Gonzalez 38, Bolden 51, Austin 55, MJones 63, JJones 106, Wilson 179
S (156 qualified): Peppers 6, Pettus 28, Schooler 40, Mapu 107, Hawkins 120, Dugger 139
LB (171 qualified): Elliss 63, Takitaki 124, Tavai 136, Bentley 148, McMillan 157
ED (201 qualified): White 32, Jennings 59, Wise 132
DI (212 qualified): Ekuale 70, Pharms 75, Roy 88, Barmore 113, Godchaux 123
PK (43 qualified): Slye 23
P: Baringer (36 qualified): Baringer 9
NE only has 7 players ranked in the Top 25% at their positions . . . only 1 player on offense. Not sure why Polk, Osborn, and Bourne don't justify a rating, as they should have played enough snaps by now to get graded. OL clearly a dire position of need heading into next year.
Bold AND underlined = Top 10% at that position
Bold = Top 25% at that position
Underlined = Top 50% at that position
QB (66 qualified): Maye 30, Brissett 49
RB (49 qualified): Gibson 28, Stevenson 30
WR (98 qualified): Douglas 49, Boutte 91
TE (37 qualified): Hooper 9, Henry 14
T (133 qualified): Thomas 74, Lowe 94, Wallace 96, Jacobs 129
G (125 qualified): Onwenu 48, Jordan 106, Robinson 114, Sow 125
C (60 qualifies): Andrews 40, Brown 56
CB (213 qualified): Gonzalez 38, Bolden 51, Austin 55, MJones 63, JJones 106, Wilson 179
S (156 qualified): Peppers 6, Pettus 28, Schooler 40, Mapu 107, Hawkins 120, Dugger 139
LB (171 qualified): Elliss 63, Takitaki 124, Tavai 136, Bentley 148, McMillan 157
ED (201 qualified): White 32, Jennings 59, Wise 132
DI (212 qualified): Ekuale 70, Pharms 75, Roy 88, Barmore 113, Godchaux 123
PK (43 qualified): Slye 23
P: Baringer (36 qualified): Baringer 9
NE only has 7 players ranked in the Top 25% at their positions . . . only 1 player on offense. Not sure why Polk, Osborn, and Bourne don't justify a rating, as they should have played enough snaps by now to get graded. OL clearly a dire position of need heading into next year.
The AZ game could be the last winable game on the schedule (unless BUF rests all their starters in the last game).
I think if Hunter is there you take him. If not, trade down a little and either grab the AZ WR or the best OT on the board.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not directed at you specifically, but what could they have done differently if free agents and potential trade targets didn't want to play for NE? They pivoted to re-signing their own players to use a big chunk of the cap room they had available. They will be in a similar situation this offseason. Not a lot of talent on the roster, tons of cap space, and a front office that has mostly swung and missed for multiple drafts over the past several years (no matter who was running the show and making the picks). At this point, the coaching staff and front office may be a bigger problem than the roster, as I am not sure they have the right puzzle pieces in those roles to extricate themselves from the mess they are in. Maybe Maye gives them a little more panache to bring in some better free agents, but I thing they are a long way from being a destination that players will want to play for. They don't have someone like Brady to win players over.
Boston
Footballguy
I agree that they were in a very bad situation last season…no premium free agents were coming here…that being said you still had enough $ to bring in some competent free agents that are at least functional (or some diamond in the rough types) as opposed to players like Osborn and Okarfor…the only FA’s that have contributed are Hooper and Gibson and neither is part of their future…while I don’t think they are a prime destination for FA’s I think Maye makes them viable if they are willing to pay top dollar (the playing with Brady discount days are long gone )…the draft is the most concerning thing because the reality is if they are gonna get out of this hole the draft will be the primary reason…obviously Maye is a home-run and they do get some credit for ignoring the chatter about trading the pick but the pick itself was pretty much a lay-up…while still early the rest of the draft does not look promising right now…Robinson looks like he could be solid and hopefully Wallace can contribute but overall this draft is not gonna move the needle and passing on McConkey with that trade looks like a very bad decision…add in the fact that Wolf was involved in other subpar drafts with BB and I just don’t think it is wise to let him make the decisions in such an important offseason.
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Boston
Footballguy
Christian Barmore returns to non-football illness list with recurring symptoms from blood clots
Patriots defensive tackle Christian Barmore played four games this season after returning from blood clots in July.
www.nbcsports.com
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Diana Russini tweeted this. Lots of chatter on the radio as to what this means for Mayo . . .
"Last week I reported that Patriots owner Robert Kraft had been telling people in private that the plan is to stick with Jerod Mayo. They knew there would be bumps and bruises following Bill Belichick. Kraft would like a multi-year run for the 38-year-old head coach, and they’re looking for every reason to keep him for 2025. Yet, he still has to finish strong the last three weeks — three games against playoff teams: the Bills twice and the Chargers."
Does that mean they want to keep him? Or does that mean they are looking for reasons to keep him and they can't find any?
"Last week I reported that Patriots owner Robert Kraft had been telling people in private that the plan is to stick with Jerod Mayo. They knew there would be bumps and bruises following Bill Belichick. Kraft would like a multi-year run for the 38-year-old head coach, and they’re looking for every reason to keep him for 2025. Yet, he still has to finish strong the last three weeks — three games against playoff teams: the Bills twice and the Chargers."
Does that mean they want to keep him? Or does that mean they are looking for reasons to keep him and they can't find any?
Or maybe they're realized their mistake and are looking for reasons to get rid of him if it's an absolute sh*t show more than usual down the stretch.
I'll be shocked if they get rid of him, but unfortunately, I think they should. Wasting Maye's time while he's on this contract would be criminal and I have a bad feeling if the same crew is back next year that's exactly what we'll do.
Let's get some experienced professionals in here. From top to bottom.
Boston
Footballguy
They need a ton of help at WR but he’s probably not the type of personality they need to be adding to their locker-room.
Boston
Footballguy
I hope they move on from Mayo but I think they are setting AVP to be the scapegoat…not sure how they can move on from AVP but keep Covington because the D has been heading in the wrong direction for a while (what exactly does Mayo do?)…the question I have if they unfortunately keep Mayo is how do they think he will get better as a HC…why would he be any better next year…I just can’t understand how they think that will be the case…be thankful you now have a franchise QB and bring in a legit GM and HC that can move this mess forward.
Boston
Footballguy
Bedard with an open letter to the Krafts today...a complete masterpiece...here is how it ends:
Those are the questions you should be asking. Oh, and if you think adding a few people here and there is going to yield improvement, that's a Jetsian line of thinking. That never works in the NFL. Either you need to admit your mistake and blow the whole thing up, or you should stay the course and see this through.
Again, I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm just here to give you the reality of the situation, and make you aware of the stakes if you make the wrong decision: you will set the franchise back at least five years, possibly damage Maye to the point he needs a Harbaugh to rescue him, plunge the franchise into total irrelevancy and you will have zero goodwill among fans. Yes, it's that bad.
Those are the questions you should be asking. Oh, and if you think adding a few people here and there is going to yield improvement, that's a Jetsian line of thinking. That never works in the NFL. Either you need to admit your mistake and blow the whole thing up, or you should stay the course and see this through.
Again, I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm just here to give you the reality of the situation, and make you aware of the stakes if you make the wrong decision: you will set the franchise back at least five years, possibly damage Maye to the point he needs a Harbaugh to rescue him, plunge the franchise into total irrelevancy and you will have zero goodwill among fans. Yes, it's that bad.
I think the only way this happens is if they get blown out every remaining game. Then this narrative will gain some serious momentum and Kraft will feel like he has to.
Boston
Footballguy
Unfortunately I think you are right…and if it happens the Krafts will regret it in a big way next season…I hope they understand just how much the fans are out on Mayo and Wolf.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
They’ll lose next week. That last game I’m not sure. Would really suck to go from 2 to 6 because of a meaningless game. I think they could get a pretty nice windfall of picks for 2.
Boston
Footballguy
As of right now The Titans are #4, The Browns are #5, the Raiders are #6...they would all be candidates where the Pats could get some more picks but remain high.