Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (12 Viewers)

[Tool]

I don't understand any fan wanting them to

waste yet another high pick on a WR

Inthe BB/Brady era they haven't spent a single first on a WR, they took a handful of WRs in the second 4 or 5, Branch being the only of

consequence - Dobson being the most recent

and biggest bust imo.

Last five first round picks, Devin Mccourty, Nate

Solder, Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower and

Dominique Easley.

Lafell is a patchwork solution to their poor

receiving corp, Edelman has been a boss but

hes only one little man (pretty worried about him following Welker's footsteps.)

Name me the last SB champ to have a franchise WR that was drafted in the first round. Heck, name me the last SB champ that had a "franchise" WR on their roster.

I get the point you made, I'm also familiar with the Patriots lack of history of drafting successful WRs. But if one of those guys I mentioned slips to the Pats and they don't trade out of it or take them - I'm gonna be more disappointed than usual with the NE draft.

I don't see them getting out of this draft without taking at least one WR, and holy #### if they take another 4th round+ special teamer and try to make him fit in the offense I'm gonna go on a bender.

I'll spoil the suspense for you and tell you the Pats won't take a WR in the first round.

 

[12punch]

I would love to see all linemen, but pats are in their best spot in years to go bpa, and they tend to be a bpa organiztion, so positions aren't immediately obvious.

I remember people said pats never draft lb high before they took mayo, and there was a fair amount of shock when they took mccourty, so we'll see what they do --- I wouldn't bet the house on anything either way.

I think they might want another rb, if they lose ridley + vereen, and fa doesn't work out.

to me, the 'terrible' wr record is a little overblown.

off the top of my head they blew a couple good picks on tate and chad jackson, and a third(?) on price over the last maybe 10 years.

I'm not ready to quit on dobson yet until the pats do, and I could probably find a lot of teams that have 3 or 4 top 3 round busts over the same period.

I'm totally fine with what they have at receiver, and you only have so many at a position on the roster, so who gets bumped --- tyms?

if they don't extend mccourty by the draft we'll see them take a safety with one of their early picks, or maybe a corner they can convert, and hopefully revis is extended

but other than that and maybe rb, I think we'll see lineman -- particularly spots that have contracts winding up this year or next year,

ie solder, connnolly, wendell, chandler jones, siliga, (+ hightower)

 

[Run It Up]

I would love to see all linemen, but pats are in their best spot in years to go bpa, and they tend to be a bpa organiztion, so positions aren't immediately obvious.

I remember people said pats never draft lb high before they took mayo, and there was a fair amount of shock when they took mccourty, so we'll see what they do --- I wouldn't bet the house on anything either way.

I think they might want another rb, if they lose ridley + vereen, and fa doesn't work out.

to me, the 'terrible' wr record is a little overblown.

off the top of my head they blew a couple good picks on tate and chad jackson, and a third(?) on price over the last maybe 10 years.

I'm not ready to quit on dobson yet until the pats do, and I could probably find a lot of teams that have 3 or 4 top 3 round busts over the same period.

I'm totally fine with what they have at receiver, and you only have so many at a position on the roster, so who gets bumped --- tyms?

if they don't extend mccourty by the draft we'll see them take a safety with one of their early picks, or maybe a corner they can convert, and hopefully revis is extended

but other than that and maybe rb, I think we'll see lineman -- particularly spots that have contracts winding up this year or next year,

ie solder, connnolly, wendell, chandler jones, siliga, (+ hightower)

Pats still have Josh Boyce and I think another guy who got hurt.

 

[12punch]

every regular in here should already be familiar with miguel benzan's most excellent cap coverage --- that guy is pro

but for any outsiders interested in the cap situation, I'd refer you to his blog for the definitive answers

 

[Run It Up]

Key offseason dates for the Pats

 

[12punch]

a game breakdown from mmqb

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/05/nfl-super-bowl-xlix-final-film-study-notes/

The Seahawks played more man coverage than usual, (on 19 of Brady’s 50 pass attempts) and the Patriots, who employ tremendous man-beater route concepts, made them pay. The best examples: Rob Gronkowski’s 21-yard crosser against Kam Chancellor and Gronkowski’s 22-yard touchdown against K.J. Wright. On that TD, the Seahawks had been playing man-to-man with both safeties in help coverage against New England’s two-minute offense. Shane Vereen had gouged Seattle a handful of times, and so Earl Thomas switched over to take Vereen, leaving Chancellor as the single-high defender and making Wagner (who’d been on Vereen most of the game) as a shallow lurker. This left Wright on an island against Gronkowski, who was split out as the lone receiver on the backside of trips............

 

[AngryPatriot]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

 

[Hu-Tang Clan]

I think the closest WR picked was 36th overall in 2006, Chad Jackson.

 

[pats3in4]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

Like with the Rams Super Bowl, he and his staff coached circles around the other staff. Seattle is so confident in their personnel and schemes on D that they don't mix it up, allowing the Pats to create mismatches (e.g. Edelman on Simon, Gronk on Wright). I'd be curious if the Pats had a viable answer if suddenly Pete decided to stick Sherman on Edelman all over the field or some other wrinkle, but we'll never know. It was just like how the Rams refused to commit to the run despite the Pats in dime that whole game...and BB knew that's how it would go down.

Seattle moved the ball on offense pretty much in the worst-case scenario the Pats could have foreseen: big pass plays in tight coverage with a lot of beastmode sprinkled in. It showed how bad of a physical matchup this game was for New England, that Seattle could overcome the very good defensive scheme of the Pats by simply executing perfectly (Wilson's deep balls were beautiful as always) and taking advantage of physical mismatches (Chris Matthews over Arrington or Ryan, Lynch and that OL against the Pats' front). The coaching mismatch fortunately offset the physical mismatch just enough for a 1-yard win.

On a related note, because the game wasn't as close as the final score indicated, the Eagles Super Bowl is also a good example of a huge coaching mismatch. Like the Edelman/Simon mismatch, the Branch/Ware mismatch handed Deion that MVP trophy and the Eagles were so blitz-happy that year that the Pats routinely torched them.

Belichick has 3 outstanding Super Bowl gameplans to go along with his hall-of-fame defensive gameplan against the Bills as DC to his credit. To state the obvious: The guy can coach when the stakes are highest.

 

[Bayhawks]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

Like with the Rams Super Bowl, he and his staff coached circles around the other staff. Seattle is so confident in their personnel and schemes on D that they don't mix it up, allowing the Pats to create mismatches (e.g. Edelman on Simon, Gronk on Wright). I'd be curious if the Pats had a viable answer if suddenly Pete decided to stick Sherman on Edelman all over the field or some other wrinkle, but we'll never know. It was just like how the Rams refused to commit to the run despite the Pats in dime that whole game...and BB knew that's how it would go down.

Seattle moved the ball on offense pretty much in the worst-case scenario the Pats could have foreseen: big pass plays in tight coverage with a lot of beastmode sprinkled in. It showed how bad of a physical matchup this game was for New England, that Seattle could overcome the very good defensive scheme of the Pats by simply executing perfectly (Wilson's deep balls were beautiful as always) and taking advantage of physical mismatches (Chris Matthews over Arrington or Ryan, Lynch and that OL against the Pats' front). The coaching mismatch fortunately offset the physical mismatch just enough for a 1-yard win.

On a related note, because the game wasn't as close as the final score indicated, the Eagles Super Bowl is also a good example of a huge coaching mismatch. Like the Edelman/Simon mismatch, the Branch/Ware mismatch handed Deion that MVP trophy and the Eagles were so blitz-happy that year that the Pats routinely torched them.

Belichick has 3 outstanding Super Bowl gameplans to go along with his hall-of-fame defensive gameplan against the Bills as DC to his credit. To state the obvious: The guy can coach when the stakes are highest.

I think the injuries the Seahawks suffered had a lot to do with the Pats success. Thomas, Chancellor, and Sherman were all banged up going into the game, Jeremy Lane was knocked out of the game in the 1st quarter, Cliff Avril was knocked out in the 3rd quarter.

Lane, especially, hurt the Seahawks. His injury is THE REASON Simon was in the game as much as he was. Seeing as how you think the Pats created mis-matches against Simon, those mis-matches wouldn't have been available w/out the injury to Lane (Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know).

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

 

[12punch]

I think I would have to disagree somewhat, not about belichick being awesome --- because he is, but more about the seahawks enjoying some crazy physical advantage that needed to be overcome by coaching.

all the seahawks fans were chirping about BEASTMODE before the game, but if you really look at it lynch managed fairly average production for that volume -- do you think he's an average back?

pats basically corked him up and did it without devoting resources to the task.

they held him in check with a light box, which pretty much will only happen if you can just beat guys in front of you.

if they had put sherman on edelman all over the field the pats would've just thrown more to gronk or amendola, because they also had the advantage past the line.

wright wasn't on gronk due to any stubborn play calling on carroll's part, rather it was just the opposite of what you're talking about.

earl thomas is generally a fixture in centerfield, but vereen was apparently such an issue to cover, due to his talent advantage, that they brought thomas down for that job and ended up creating a whole ripple effect of musical chairs that left wright on gronk.

this pats team is VERY hard to match up with.

I think these kind of plays, spelled out in that article I linked, are an interesting commentary on today's nfl, and the critical value of defenders that can play multiple roles.

 

[12punch]

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

jfc, stop with the whiny excuses

omg an nfl team suffered an injury

 

[Bayhawks]

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

jfc, stop with the whiny excuses

omg an nfl team suffered an injury

whiny excuses? I hate the Seahawks and am glad they lost.

The Patriots won by 4. The winning touchdown was scored by Edelman against a DB that was an injury replacement. Saying "it's possible" the outcome would have been different isn't making an excuse, it's a fact. Just like noting "Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know" is a fact.

Don't act so persecuted. Just because someone doesn't look at thing through Pats-colored glasses doesn't mean he is whining or making excuses.

 

[pats3in4]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

Like with the Rams Super Bowl, he and his staff coached circles around the other staff. Seattle is so confident in their personnel and schemes on D that they don't mix it up, allowing the Pats to create mismatches (e.g. Edelman on Simon, Gronk on Wright). I'd be curious if the Pats had a viable answer if suddenly Pete decided to stick Sherman on Edelman all over the field or some other wrinkle, but we'll never know. It was just like how the Rams refused to commit to the run despite the Pats in dime that whole game...and BB knew that's how it would go down.

Seattle moved the ball on offense pretty much in the worst-case scenario the Pats could have foreseen: big pass plays in tight coverage with a lot of beastmode sprinkled in. It showed how bad of a physical matchup this game was for New England, that Seattle could overcome the very good defensive scheme of the Pats by simply executing perfectly (Wilson's deep balls were beautiful as always) and taking advantage of physical mismatches (Chris Matthews over Arrington or Ryan, Lynch and that OL against the Pats' front). The coaching mismatch fortunately offset the physical mismatch just enough for a 1-yard win.

On a related note, because the game wasn't as close as the final score indicated, the Eagles Super Bowl is also a good example of a huge coaching mismatch. Like the Edelman/Simon mismatch, the Branch/Ware mismatch handed Deion that MVP trophy and the Eagles were so blitz-happy that year that the Pats routinely torched them.

Belichick has 3 outstanding Super Bowl gameplans to go along with his hall-of-fame defensive gameplan against the Bills as DC to his credit. To state the obvious: The guy can coach when the stakes are highest.

I think the injuries the Seahawks suffered had a lot to do with the Pats success. Thomas, Chancellor, and Sherman were all banged up going into the game, Jeremy Lane was knocked out of the game in the 1st quarter, Cliff Avril was knocked out in the 3rd quarter.

Lane, especially, hurt the Seahawks. His injury is THE REASON Simon was in the game as much as he was. Seeing as how you think the Pats created mis-matches against Simon, those mis-matches wouldn't have been available w/out the injury to Lane (Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know).

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

I agree that Seattle was banged up, but I don't think the injuries showed in particular...

- Pats weren't throwing at Sherman no matter what.

- Aside from the sick throw under pressure on the last drive to Gronk for 20 yards, they didn't really go after Kam.

- I think the Pats would have handled Avril. Their problem came when Bennett either lined up or stunted inside. I've watched the game three times and noticed the Pats' interior really struggled with him a la the Giants Super Bowls, often with a lineman or two confused and blocking nobody.

- Even before Lane went out, it was clear the Pats were picking on the Maxwell/Lane side of the field.

 

[12punch]

Butler’s regular-season stats weren’t overly impressive, as he allowed receptions on 16 of 28 targets for 272 yards with two touchdowns. He ranked 181st out of 229 NFL cornerbacks in Pro Football Focus’ passer-rating allowed metric, 178th in cover snaps per reception, 211th in yards per cover snap and 201st in cover snaps per target. However, Butler’s ball skills were his defining strength this season, and that obviously stood out in the Super Bowl, when he was able to get his hand on the football four times in six targets, including Seattle Seahawks wide receiver Jermaine Kearse’s miracle catch and the rookie cornerback’s game-winning interception. Including playoffs, Butler ranked second overall in pass deflections plus interceptions per target and first in pass deflections plus interceptions per cover snap. Butler has room to grow, but his ability to high point a football and bat it away already ranks among the very best cornerbacks in the NFL. Butler was targeted heavily whenever he was on the field in 2014. That was at its most obvious in Week 9 against the Denver Broncos, when he played 30 cover snaps and was targeted 10 times by quarterback Peyton Manning, allowing six receptions for 82 yards, including 72 to highly talented wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders. Butler also contributed two pass breakups in that game. The Seahawks also immediately went after Butler when he replaced nickel cornerback Kyle Arrington midway through the third quarter of the Super Bowl. Obviously, quarterback Russell Wilson would live to regret that decision.Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/02/malcolm-butler-not-just-a-patriots-one-hit-wonder-has-untapped-potenial/

 

[12punch]

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

jfc, stop with the whiny excuses

omg an nfl team suffered an injury

whiny excuses? I hate the Seahawks and am glad they lost.

The Patriots won by 4. The winning touchdown was scored by Edelman against a DB that was an injury replacement. Saying "it's possible" the outcome would have been different isn't making an excuse, it's a fact. Just like noting "Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know" is a fact.

Don't act so persecuted. Just because someone doesn't look at thing through Pats-colored glasses doesn't mean he is whining or making excuses.

it's got nothing to do with persecution --- who do you actually think you're 'persecuting'?

it's this continual whine of excuse making, and it isn't any better when pats fans do it after a loss.

it is what it is.

all these imaginary scenarios are absolutely ridiculous --- if they didn't think they could burn lane maybe they throw a td to somebody else.

how much did they 'take advantage', as you say, of sherman's injury -- how much damage did sherman give up?

why isn't brady's illness mentioned, why isn't hightower's torn labrum mentioned, why isn't stork's injury mentioned, why isn't mayo and ridley on ir mentioned?

if seattle's defense is crippled by one corner getting knocked out of the game, while the pats are able to bench a corner and actually get better, then the pats are the better team, and have done a better job building depth.

when did fielding some crappy corner turn into a credit for your team??

maybe they should have kept browner instead of letting the pats sign him if things are that dire.

what if, what if, what if.............

edit: hey, genius --- now that I think about it, how many injuries did they have in the secondary in 2012 when brady ####### torched them for 400 yds on 36 completions?

was he taking advantage of simon all game?

let me guess -- you've got some more 'what if....' excuses for that one.

 

[Bayhawks]

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

jfc, stop with the whiny excuses

omg an nfl team suffered an injury

whiny excuses? I hate the Seahawks and am glad they lost.

The Patriots won by 4. The winning touchdown was scored by Edelman against a DB that was an injury replacement. Saying "it's possible" the outcome would have been different isn't making an excuse, it's a fact. Just like noting "Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know" is a fact.

Don't act so persecuted. Just because someone doesn't look at thing through Pats-colored glasses doesn't mean he is whining or making excuses.

it's got nothing to do with persecution --- who do you actually think you're 'persecuting'?

it's this continual whine of excuse making, and it isn't any better when pats fans do it after a loss.

it is what it is.

all these imaginary scenarios are absolutely ridiculous --- if they didn't think they could burn lane maybe they throw a td to somebody else.

how much did they 'take advantage', as you say, of sherman's injury -- how much damage did sherman give up?

why isn't brady's illness mentioned, why isn't hightower's torn labrum mentioned, why isn't stork's injury mentioned, why isn't mayo and ridley on ir mentioned?

if seattle's defense is crippled by one corner getting knocked out of the game, while the pats are able to bench a corner and actually get better, then the pats are the better team, and have done a better job building depth.

when did fielding some crappy corner turn into a credit for your team??

maybe they should have kept browner instead of letting the pats sign him if things are that dire.

what if, what if, what if.............

edit: hey, genius --- now that I think about it, how many injuries did they have in the secondary in 2012 when brady ####### torched them for 400 yds on 36 completions?

was he taking advantage of simon all game?

I'm not persecuting anyone, "genius."

You, looking at a discussion of FACTS, and calling them excuses, are the one with a persecution complex.

I didn't say I didn't think they could burn Lane, in fact I specifically said maybe Edelman would have done the same to him (twice-but you must have missed that). I also said that I think Edelman would have done well against Sherman, BTW.

I was responding to a post that said Belicheck is a genius because of his game-plan, and specifically noted targeting Simon. He couldn't have game-planned to target Simon, because he didn't know Lane would get hurt (unless he has Doc Brown and the Delorean on the payroll).

The reason I didn't mention those injuries to the Pats is because I wasn't responding to a post that said Pete Carroll is a genius without discussing those injuries. If someone had said that Carroll was a genius because he ran Lynch without mentioning that Hightower was banged up, I'd have said the same thing.

Also, If someone had said BB was a genius for his gameplan in that 2012 game where Brady threw for 400 yards, IN A LOSS, I probably would have debated that statement, as well.

The Pats won, they deserved to win, I'm glad they won. The fact that I mentioned the Seahawks injuries impacting the game is a fact, not an excuse. Get over yourself.

 

[12punch]

yeah, but it's not a FACT, it's your imagination

 

[AngryPatriot]

Calm down guys, jeez. We won! lol. This is gravy. I do think the Pats would win 3 out of 4 against SEA but only a guess. Pats we're pretty healthy and SEA had a couple injuries but the Pats left a lot on the table and basically won 3 of the 4 quarters. Ahh, who cares! Even all this snow is not so bad, shovel it like a champ!

 

[Bayhawks]

yeah, but it's not a FACT, it's your imagination

I imagined that Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman were hurt?

I imagined that Lane and Avril got hurt in the game?

I imagined that the Patriots won by 4?

I imagined that the winning touchdown was thrown to a Pats WR being covered by a back-up CB, who was in the game because Lane got hurt?

I didn't imagine any of that; they are facts.

 

[12punch]

you imagined that your postings have some kind of point other than trolling a pats thread

 

[Bayhawks]

you imagined that your postings have some kind of point other than trolling a pats thread

Translation-I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, so I'll call names.

It's a football message board. It's for discussing football. My post was discussing football. That's the point. You got butt-hurt because you thought I was dis-crediting your team's SB win. You were wrong. Get over it, I'm sure it's happened many times before, and I'm sure it will happen many times again.

 

[ROCKET]

yeah, but it's not a FACT, it's your imagination

I imagined that Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman were hurt?

I imagined that Lane and Avril got hurt in the game?

I imagined that the Patriots won by 4?

I imagined that the winning touchdown was thrown to a Pats WR being covered by a back-up CB, who was in the game because Lane got hurt?

I didn't imagine any of that; they are facts.

Who gives a damn about injuries? If Rodgers was 100% Seattle wouldn't have even made it to the SB.

 

[12punch]

here's the nfl turning point show on the sb, in case anybody missed it

 

[Run It Up]

Its that time again, end of the second is approaching, my small board is:

Michael Bennett DT Ohio State
Carl Davis DT Iowa
Laken Tomlinson OG Duke

Opinions?

Bennett provides flexibility at DT, not a true replacement for Wilfork, but Bennett brings some pass rushing ability and comfortably plays in a 3-4 and 4-3, thinking him and Easley together would be pretty sick.

Carl Davis is more of a Wilfork prototypical NT, not much to say here.

I don't know much about Tomlinson, he rates out well for a RG, supposedly hasn't played anywhere else - couple profiles I've read of his say he has trouble moving in the pocket which would be an issue.

Edit: Well ####

 

[bostonfred]

Dudes named Tomlinson don't usually like the patriots

 

[Road Warriors]

Its that time again, end of the second is approaching, my small board is:

Michael Bennett DT Ohio State

Carl Davis DT Iowa

Laken Tomlinson OG Duke

Opinions?

Bennett provides flexibility at DT, not a true replacement for Wilfork, but Bennett brings some pass rushing ability and comfortably plays in a 3-4 and 4-3, thinking him and Easley together would be pretty sick.

Carl Davis is more of a Wilfork prototypical NT, not much to say here.

I don't know much about Tomlinson, he rates out well for a RG, supposedly hasn't played anywhere else - couple profiles I've read of his say he has trouble moving in the pocket which would be an issue.

Edit: Well ####

Interior O line is a need, but I think Wilfork needs replacing sooner rather than later. Treads getting a bit thin on those tires.

Davis is my vote.

 

[Run It Up]

Its that time again, end of the second is approaching, my small board is:

Michael Bennett DT Ohio State

Carl Davis DT Iowa

Laken Tomlinson OG Duke

Opinions?

Bennett provides flexibility at DT, not a true replacement for Wilfork, but Bennett brings some pass rushing ability and comfortably plays in a 3-4 and 4-3, thinking him and Easley together would be pretty sick.

Carl Davis is more of a Wilfork prototypical NT, not much to say here.

I don't know much about Tomlinson, he rates out well for a RG, supposedly hasn't played anywhere else - couple profiles I've read of his say he has trouble moving in the pocket which would be an issue.

Edit: Well ####

Interior O line is a need, but I think Wilfork needs replacing sooner rather than later. Treads getting a bit thin on those tires.

Davis is my vote.

When I made the post it was 4 picks out, 60 was Bennett, 61 was Davis.

Kind of a step down after those two.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

Like with the Rams Super Bowl, he and his staff coached circles around the other staff. Seattle is so confident in their personnel and schemes on D that they don't mix it up, allowing the Pats to create mismatches (e.g. Edelman on Simon, Gronk on Wright). I'd be curious if the Pats had a viable answer if suddenly Pete decided to stick Sherman on Edelman all over the field or some other wrinkle, but we'll never know. It was just like how the Rams refused to commit to the run despite the Pats in dime that whole game...and BB knew that's how it would go down.

Seattle moved the ball on offense pretty much in the worst-case scenario the Pats could have foreseen: big pass plays in tight coverage with a lot of beastmode sprinkled in. It showed how bad of a physical matchup this game was for New England, that Seattle could overcome the very good defensive scheme of the Pats by simply executing perfectly (Wilson's deep balls were beautiful as always) and taking advantage of physical mismatches (Chris Matthews over Arrington or Ryan, Lynch and that OL against the Pats' front). The coaching mismatch fortunately offset the physical mismatch just enough for a 1-yard win.

On a related note, because the game wasn't as close as the final score indicated, the Eagles Super Bowl is also a good example of a huge coaching mismatch. Like the Edelman/Simon mismatch, the Branch/Ware mismatch handed Deion that MVP trophy and the Eagles were so blitz-happy that year that the Pats routinely torched them.

Belichick has 3 outstanding Super Bowl gameplans to go along with his hall-of-fame defensive gameplan against the Bills as DC to his credit. To state the obvious: The guy can coach when the stakes are highest.

I think the injuries the Seahawks suffered had a lot to do with the Pats success. Thomas, Chancellor, and Sherman were all banged up going into the game, Jeremy Lane was knocked out of the game in the 1st quarter, Cliff Avril was knocked out in the 3rd quarter.

Lane, especially, hurt the Seahawks. His injury is THE REASON Simon was in the game as much as he was. Seeing as how you think the Pats created mis-matches against Simon, those mis-matches wouldn't have been available w/out the injury to Lane (Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know).

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

I'm hesitant to join in here since I am in full Bobby McFerrin mode (that is, except for Mike effn Kensil and butt hurt, no class ravens & colts orgs )

But it is the New England Patriots Team thread so why not add my

Sherman didn't appear hampered and they didn't throw at him anyway so his injury was a complete non factor afaic. Chancellor might have been slowed, but I don't think NE targeted him all that much and he played pretty well imo; Thomas has a shoulder injury, but I think it was probably less than or equal of a factor than Hightowers shoulder injury was against Lynch and the sea running game.

As far as I can tell from current depth charts, Lane is Sea's 3rd string cb, and Simon is their 4th; I am not that familiar with Lane, but seriously does anyone really believe Lane was going to shutdown Edleman when no one else really had all year? IMHO, Lane aint shutting down Edelman, no way and fwiw, if your playing NE your 4th cb is probably going to see some significant time injury or not..

FWIW, Butler is NEs 5th\6th string cb.

The Avril injury might have been the most significant, but NE moved the ball well in the 1st half while he was in there. The sea D line (the whole D actually) was gassed in the 4th so i'm not sure how much difference if any he would have made (we will never know).

No question Injuries prior to a game (season) and during a game affect the outcome; no question, but you could also put it another way and say that team depth affects the outcome.

As for the BB out coaching Carol I don't know that I would necessarily say that, I thought both teams were well coached and it was a great game.

I will say that had BB used a timeout at the end (early) when everyone thought he should, I think sea runs the ball on second down and the outcome might have been different. I know BB is on record as saying he would have used his timeout had they completed the pass, but I think that with just 20 seconds left he lets it run and forces sea to use theirs. I am convinced BB gambled by not taking a timeout and when he did that he exerted at least some pressure on sea on when and what they would call for plays. I am not saying this was some genius move by BB, I just think he (and or Adams) made the calculated decision (gambled) to put that in game, game on the line pressure on sea and it ended up paying off.

FWIW, I believe that much like the giants having just the right 4 man pass rush proved to be the difference in their SB wins over NE; Brady and NEs expertly executed short passing game was the difference in their SB win over Sea. I don't think anyone else in the afc would really comes close to beating sea and fwiw, gb with a healthy Rodgers is probably the only team in the nfc.

 

[12punch]

did they actually delete that superbowl thread?

 

[bostonfred]

No.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=724085&page=69

 

[Anarchy99]

Someone asked me if the Patriots could decline the $20 million option year on Revis but then still try to franchise him. I didn't know the exact rules on that but essentially I said no with nothing to hang my hat on. Does anyone know the formal rules on this? I would have to think that once a team declines an option on a contract that means that player is a total 100% UFA without the ability to tag him. If not, NE could tag Revis for $14.4 million for this season. It wouldn't make sense that a team could decline and tag in that case just to save money.

 

[bostonfred]

I would imagine a club option -especially one for more than the tag amount - would have a clause that covers this. That might be boilerplate but I doubt it's covered in the cba.

 

[12punch]

yeah, I would also have to assume this is the case --- the ability to decline and tag would be nonsensical

there's no way we pick that up and keep him on it --- we might lose him, but I'm hoping we get a deal done quick.

picking that thing up while we negotiate would be crippling as soon as fa starts, and revis realizes this.

it's a lot like the tag and trade situation with cassel, but in this case it'd be an extension to lower cap instead of trade.

 

[Anarchy99]

I poked around and it sounds like there are terms in the Revis deal that exclude NE from tagging him at the end of the contract (if it ever got to that point). But yes, once a player has an option year declined that is the same as releasing a player (so not eligible for compensatory picks either if they lose him). Not sure why Revis would not want to be tagged at all, as he would have been due $24 million for a single season in 2016.

 

[Run It Up]

Just pay the money his money and get it done.

He deserves to be the highest paid corner, not that that is where the discussion begins nor where the Pats should end it.

Hes gotta look out for himself, but at the same time, hes not gonna find a better spot to play for the rest of his career. Corners like most positions begin to drop off after 30, Revis turns 30 this off season, hes got a good 4-6 more years in him if he manages to avoid injury - could reasonably ride out his career along side Brady if he plays it right. But hes gotta be willing to come to the table.

 

[Run It Up]

The GOAT

 

[12punch]

belichick on letterman in 5 min -- well that's when the show starts

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

The GOAT

Awesome

 

[Boston]

One area that I think has been overlooked in a big way...this year's team was the most physical they have had in quite a long time...the teams of the past few years could not have beaten the Seahawks or Ravens this year...they were not tough enough...with Collins and Hightower emerging and Revis and a badass Browner (his physical style can't get enough credit...I don't care how many penalties he gets) getting added, the out-of-nowhere emergence of Chung, a scrappy Lafell on the outside and a healthy Gronk this team was more equipped to get in a slugfest than they have been in years...I really hope they continue to add to that area because that is one area that separates regular season football from playoff football...

 

[Run It Up]

Through the first 4 rounds:

1.32 - Dorial Green-Beckham WR
2.64 - Mario Edwards Jr. DT/DE
3.96 - Jeremiah Poutasi OL
3.c - Shaq Mason OG
4.98 - Max Garcia OL

Please let this happen based football overlords.

 

[12punch]

how well do you know your coach?

watch past the soundfx clips

some good clips after that one, too

butler + browner

 

[12punch]

malcolm butler -- man on the street

 

[Old Smiley]

Thought I'd post this too short interview with Bill Belichick talking about Tom Brady.

Best quote:

"One thing about Tom, he has a great vision for the game. When you ask him at the end of the play what happened, he'll tell nine or 10 things that happened -- with the rush, the way the defense played, the way the route was run, what he saw. You go back and look at the film and that's the way it happened. So he's able to process a lot of information in just a couple of seconds there."

 

[pats3in4]

malcolm butler -- man on the street

That is great. And honestly, I wouldn't recognize him, either.

 

[pats3in4]

Thought I'd post this too short interview with Bill Belichick talking about Tom Brady.

Best quote:

"One thing about Tom, he has a great vision for the game. When you ask him at the end of the play what happened, he'll tell nine or 10 things that happened -- with the rush, the way the defense played, the way the route was run, what he saw. You go back and look at the film and that's the way it happened. So he's able to process a lot of information in just a couple of seconds there."

On this quote, in one of the many books written about the early Brady Pats, there was a bit about how in practice Belichick once got on Tom for making what he thought was a wrong read. Tom got defensive and explained everything about the play in detail. Belichick went to the tape and realized Brady was right and he was wrong. I think this was in the 2001 pre-season or maybe during the early part of the 2001 season when Brady wasn't BRADY, yet.

 

[AngryPatriot]

Those are the intangibles and just the intelligence that Brady has... plenty of better athletes have come and gone at the position. Yet year after year teams are seduced by flashy skills when they should be testing their minds (and heart- if it is possible). Can't really blame them with the lack of real QB talent in the NFL or coming out of college. Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson being the exceptions.

This offseason feels a lot different than last, how's that for stating the obvious, lol. Pick up another WR, help on the lines, maybe a TE... good to go. And sign a couple keys guys. It will be interesting to see how guys like Wilfork, Mayo, McCourty, Vereen, Amendola... fare this offseason. I hope they keep things together and just tweak the key areas.

 

[Bad_Mo]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

Like with the Rams Super Bowl, he and his staff coached circles around the other staff. Seattle is so confident in their personnel and schemes on D that they don't mix it up, allowing the Pats to create mismatches (e.g. Edelman on Simon, Gronk on Wright). I'd be curious if the Pats had a viable answer if suddenly Pete decided to stick Sherman on Edelman all over the field or some other wrinkle, but we'll never know. It was just like how the Rams refused to commit to the run despite the Pats in dime that whole game...and BB knew that's how it would go down.

Seattle moved the ball on offense pretty much in the worst-case scenario the Pats could have foreseen: big pass plays in tight coverage with a lot of beastmode sprinkled in. It showed how bad of a physical matchup this game was for New England, that Seattle could overcome the very good defensive scheme of the Pats by simply executing perfectly (Wilson's deep balls were beautiful as always) and taking advantage of physical mismatches (Chris Matthews over Arrington or Ryan, Lynch and that OL against the Pats' front). The coaching mismatch fortunately offset the physical mismatch just enough for a 1-yard win.

On a related note, because the game wasn't as close as the final score indicated, the Eagles Super Bowl is also a good example of a huge coaching mismatch. Like the Edelman/Simon mismatch, the Branch/Ware mismatch handed Deion that MVP trophy and the Eagles were so blitz-happy that year that the Pats routinely torched them.

Belichick has 3 outstanding Super Bowl gameplans to go along with his hall-of-fame defensive gameplan against the Bills as DC to his credit. To state the obvious: The guy can coach when the stakes are highest.

I think the injuries the Seahawks suffered had a lot to do with the Pats success. Thomas, Chancellor, and Sherman were all banged up going into the game, Jeremy Lane was knocked out of the game in the 1st quarter, Cliff Avril was knocked out in the 3rd quarter.

Lane, especially, hurt the Seahawks. His injury is THE REASON Simon was in the game as much as he was. Seeing as how you think the Pats created mis-matches against Simon, those mis-matches wouldn't have been available w/out the injury to Lane (Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know).

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

You are severely underestimating who injured those players in-game. NE's defense played more physical and brought it to SEA...thus causing those injuries to happen. That part of the game cannot be written off like it was just some bad luck crap.

 

[Bad_Mo]

yeah, but it's not a FACT, it's your imagination

I imagined that Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman were hurt?

I imagined that Lane and Avril got hurt in the game?

I imagined that the Patriots won by 4?

I imagined that the winning touchdown was thrown to a Pats WR being covered by a back-up CB, who was in the game because Lane got hurt?

I didn't imagine any of that; they are facts.

I imagine that several Patriots players were hurt. Hightower, Stork, C. Jones and a handful of others that we will never really know the extent of their injuries.

BTW...Sherman is a phony. Soooooo injured yet he "toughs it out" v. Packers and in SB - such a warrior. Immediately reported (like minutes) after SB that he needed Tommy John surgery....oh wait. No he doesn't. Fraud. Is he hurt...? Yes. Is he as hurt as he loves people to believe...? No way.

 

[Bayhawks]

Belichick's masterpiece. He's like the Beethoven of coaches, he probably sees the game in his mind and could coach with his back to the field.

I don't know about any of you guys and girls but this one feels the sweetest. Just awesome!

Like with the Rams Super Bowl, he and his staff coached circles around the other staff. Seattle is so confident in their personnel and schemes on D that they don't mix it up, allowing the Pats to create mismatches (e.g. Edelman on Simon, Gronk on Wright). I'd be curious if the Pats had a viable answer if suddenly Pete decided to stick Sherman on Edelman all over the field or some other wrinkle, but we'll never know. It was just like how the Rams refused to commit to the run despite the Pats in dime that whole game...and BB knew that's how it would go down.

Seattle moved the ball on offense pretty much in the worst-case scenario the Pats could have foreseen: big pass plays in tight coverage with a lot of beastmode sprinkled in. It showed how bad of a physical matchup this game was for New England, that Seattle could overcome the very good defensive scheme of the Pats by simply executing perfectly (Wilson's deep balls were beautiful as always) and taking advantage of physical mismatches (Chris Matthews over Arrington or Ryan, Lynch and that OL against the Pats' front). The coaching mismatch fortunately offset the physical mismatch just enough for a 1-yard win.

On a related note, because the game wasn't as close as the final score indicated, the Eagles Super Bowl is also a good example of a huge coaching mismatch. Like the Edelman/Simon mismatch, the Branch/Ware mismatch handed Deion that MVP trophy and the Eagles were so blitz-happy that year that the Pats routinely torched them.

Belichick has 3 outstanding Super Bowl gameplans to go along with his hall-of-fame defensive gameplan against the Bills as DC to his credit. To state the obvious: The guy can coach when the stakes are highest.

I think the injuries the Seahawks suffered had a lot to do with the Pats success. Thomas, Chancellor, and Sherman were all banged up going into the game, Jeremy Lane was knocked out of the game in the 1st quarter, Cliff Avril was knocked out in the 3rd quarter. Lane, especially, hurt the Seahawks. His injury is THE REASON Simon was in the game as much as he was. Seeing as how you think the Pats created mis-matches against Simon, those mis-matches wouldn't have been available w/out the injury to Lane (Edelman could have lit up Lane too, for all we know).

But the idea that BB outcoached anyone in this game has to be weighed against the fact that he came into a game with a weakened Seahawks defense, which was made weaker by injuries in-game. The Pats took advantage of those injuries, but if they hadn't happened, it's very possible the outcome could have been different.

You are severely underestimating who injured those players in-game. NE's defense played more physical and brought it to SEA...thus causing those injuries to happen. That part of the game cannot be written off like it was just some bad luck crap.

1-Lane didn't get hurt by NE's defense; he got hurt after his interception, and NE's OFFENSE was on the field. In fact, every injury I noted was on Seattle's D, so how dd NE's defense playing more physical cues those injuries?2-I never said anything about luck. In fact, I specifically said NE deserved to win the game. My initial post was in response to a poster who was talking about BB's coaching/gameplan "genius" and he specifically cited the Pats picking on Simon. I pointed out that picking on Simon was a response to Lane getting injured, IN GAME, and couldn't have been part of BB's gameplan, unless he can see into the future. I also went on to point out that Edelman could have done the same things to Lane.

My post was merely a commentary on the idea that BB "game-planned" them to this win, specifically with regards to picking on Simon. I NEVER suggested it was a "lucky" win for NE; for some reason, several posters have decided to take my post as some kind of attempt to de-value the Pats win, or suggest they didn't deserve to win; neither of which is true.