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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Bossman
Footballguy
I doubt it's that easy to jump in when season is almost over and pick things up quickly. Would be like entering a class mid semester. But hard to know whether he didn't meet expectations.
Bossman
Footballguy
So, I'm predicting Garappolo to CLE .... lets talk about pick #12.
Offense or Defense there?
TE OJ Howard would be a fine addition to the offense. With Gronks lack of health and Bennett testing free agency, seems like a no brainer.
ILB Haasan Reddick played OLB but I guess projects to ILB. Like a Hightower?
SS/LB Jabrill Peppers - versatile players are coveted by B.Belichick.
Offense or Defense there?
TE OJ Howard would be a fine addition to the offense. With Gronks lack of health and Bennett testing free agency, seems like a no brainer.
ILB Haasan Reddick played OLB but I guess projects to ILB. Like a Hightower?
SS/LB Jabrill Peppers - versatile players are coveted by B.Belichick.
tombonneau
Footballguy
If they get the 1.12 I'd like to see them take defensive BPA according to their board. BB doesn't really go wrong with high defensive picks. Only whiffed on Easley and that seems like it was more locker room than field related as he's been ok with Rams.
Then I'd love them to take a TE at 32. Engram I think would be perfect. Or if they think the Ashand kid is the real deal snag him. Either way I think more value at TE at 32 than at 12.
As far as Peppers at 12, I think I'd throw up in my mouth a little.
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Boston
Footballguy
Or at least one of them (or both) get dealt and somehow they end up with about 15 picks between the 2nd and 4th round...If they get the 1.12 I'd like to see them take defensive BPA according to their board. BB doesn't really go wrong with high defensive picks. Only whiffed on Easley and that seems like it was more locker room than field related as he's been ok with Rams.
Then I'd love them to take a TE at 32. Engram I think would be perfect. Or if they think the Ashand kid is the real deal snag him. Either way I think more value at TE at 32 than at 12.
As far as Peppers at 12, I think I'd throw up in my mouth a little.
Bossman
Footballguy
Indeed ... heck they've already started clearing roster space with trades of C.Jones and Collins.
Don't sign any free agents and just gotta drop 7 or 8 more off the roster and they should be good.
tombonneau
Footballguy
Depends on players there. It's probably rare BB has a chance to take of his top 10 players in the draft so they might opt to use it. But if someone in late first is hot to trot to get a QB and willing to flip a future first to move up, he'd take it.
Bossman
Footballguy
I wonder if BB's strategy may be changing now that Brady is getting close to retirement.
Heck, Belichick is 64 ... at some point wouldn't he like to retire himself and start living the easy life?
Taking a player at #12 would provide quality for the next 4 or 5 years, ... and take him to retirement after 2 more championships.
tombonneau
Footballguy
That is what makes me lean toward the making the pick if they are able to trade for 1.12. Figure he will coach 5-7 more years. Coughlin kind of set the template for Grandpa Coaches and he retired at what 72 or something? And even still he can't stay away and is in the front office.
I could see BB retiring early 70s then staying a way a few years before doing a 3-4 years stint coaching Navy.
Boston
Footballguy
Was kidding around before...if they end up with #12 I would expect them yo use it as it gives them a chance to land an impact player who will be on a rookie deal...the #32 would probably be in play to turn into multiple picks...
Casting Couch
Footballguy
I see Belichick remaining with the Patriots under some sort of lifetime contract, eventually relinquishing coaching duties and becoming full time GM.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
BB has said he's not coaching until he's 70. Speculation by beat reporters talking to people inside the building guess he will serve 20 years as HC and call it a day. That's 3 more seasons and he would be 67. Who knows if that is remotely close to accurate.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Great deal for the Pats. In terms of relative draft value, that is essentially getting Allen for a mid 6th rounder.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Yeah, I read the article wrong on ESPN but I'm driving while reading so it is understandable. He is more durable than Gronk.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Gilmore (Bills/CB) to the Pats... rumors of Brandon Cooks (maybe for Butler?) but the Gilmore deal looks like it's going to happen. IF Butler stays it's probably for one more year by the looks of it. Weird stuff going on! I don't know why they just didn't pay Butler but his agent may want too much... more to come....
Guessing a irreconcilable split between the Butler camp and Patriots. Butler was pissed about his contract going into this season and it does not look like it's changed. My guess is the Patriots were/are offering something in the 12 mil per year range, Butler wants to be paid top dollar (which is he arguably worth) but also has $3M price tag this season which the Patriots likely think should make him take a little less to get the bump up. Sides couldn't get anything down, Patriots decided screw it and signed Gilmore for what they had reserved for Butler more or less. Butler's agent is also a relative newcomer in the field so might contributed to some frustration on both sides.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The problem I have in all of this is that the offense is always right near the top of the league. For NE, a top 5-ish CB is worth way more than a good young WR. We know they can score 30+. But they win when they give up 14-17. I always say let's see the team they roll out on Opening Day, so let's see who they end up with.
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Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Doesn't make sense..Now that our QB is turning 40 lets get a WR that can outrun his arm.
The Pat's probably should have offered Butler something like 12 mil last year and he would have taken it and could have avoided all of this. Now they are preparing for his departure. Butler is a top 10 CB in the league but what is somewhat overlooked about him is that he is also 27 and is going to be commanding something like 16M+ per season as a CB at 28. Too much bad blood on both sides now. Gilmore is not the CB that Butler is but the Pats are getting a locked in price on him for a position that is only bound to rise again next year.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Again, Brady led the league as a deep passer, Hogan led the league in yards per catch. The problem was more often then not lack of seperation, not velocity.
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Run It Up
Footballguy
I dont disagree, but i just think they gave up on Butler well before free agency. And i dont agree with others that Butler would have taken a middling contract, i think he would have and should have asked to be the highest paid CB atm. He played 3 years for practically nothing - its time to get paid.
Spike
Footballguy
Not sure why everyone seems to assume a WR coming into the Patriots offense can/will pick it up. Lots of ones who have come in haven't.
Boston
Footballguy
Radio reporting that both Branch and Harmon coming back...good news here...Branch fits their D real well and they are saying it is two years for a total of 12 mil...very affordable for what they get from him...pleasantly surprised by Harmon coming back...I thought he was a candidate to get over-paid...solid safety who brings stability to the secondary...
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Bossman
Footballguy
I'd rather have Butler than Cooks ... and so would the Saints.
Going by memory, I don't think the Pats were particularly good getting off the field on 3rd down last year ... even WITH Butler.
Teams would move the chains until inside the red zone then stall.
Loosing your best CB because of $$$ seems like a major step backwards at one of their weaknesses .... unless they feel one of the young guys is ready to take over the CB1 position?
Going by memory, I don't think the Pats were particularly good getting off the field on 3rd down last year ... even WITH Butler.
Teams would move the chains until inside the red zone then stall.
Loosing your best CB because of $$$ seems like a major step backwards at one of their weaknesses .... unless they feel one of the young guys is ready to take over the CB1 position?
tombonneau
Footballguy
Agreed. Would rather have Butler/Gilmore in 17 and push for repeat with current offense intact. Maybe sign another WR on the cheap. Unless they think they can keep Ryan too and deal Butler for Cooks. But then probably means no Hightower.
Run It Up
Footballguy
Similar to Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins, probably JG and Hightower.
If you cant/wont resign, get what you can.
There are plenty of reports out there that the Pats are only trading Butler if they cant sign him to a long term deal.
Bossman
Footballguy
I have to admit ... I was naive in thinking that Butler was a Patriot "humble pie" type player.
Comes out of nowhere to become a CB1. He just never struck me as a diva.
Seems now that maybe he's more of the typical NFL "show me the money" type player.
... or maybe the Patriots are low balling him very badly with him being restricted.
Comes out of nowhere to become a CB1. He just never struck me as a diva.
Seems now that maybe he's more of the typical NFL "show me the money" type player.
... or maybe the Patriots are low balling him very badly with him being restricted.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
They can't trade Butler unless he signs the tender... so he may have something worked out with NO... we should hear about it soon if there is a deal...
Boston
Footballguy
Harmon is 20 mil for four years (do not know guaranteed $ yet)...big fan of this move...he is definitely worth that money...especially when you see some of the other deals out there and the fact this should be his prime years...that trio of McCourty/Chung/Harmon has turned into a high quality, veteran unit that can handle a lot of different schemes...the big question in the secondary is who starts at CB with Gilmore...
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Little discussion on Cooks/Butler...
http://www.csnne.com/video/perry-flip-butler-cooks-makes-lot-money-sense
http://www.csnne.com/video/perry-flip-butler-cooks-makes-lot-money-sense
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Titans signed CB Logan Ryan, formerly of the Patriots, to a three-year, $30 million contract.
Ryan is reuniting with GM Jon Robinson, who helped draft him in New England. The No. 83 overall pick of the 2013 draft, Ryan has been a contributor from Day 1, and is coming off back-to-back solid seasons as a starter opposite Malcolm Butler. He's a needed upgrade for a Titans cornerback corps that was mixing and matching alongside a declining Jason McCourty in 2016. Ryan is probably near the peak of his upside, but only 26, should have plenty of solid football left in the tank.
Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter
Mar 9 - 11:35 PM
Ryan is reuniting with GM Jon Robinson, who helped draft him in New England. The No. 83 overall pick of the 2013 draft, Ryan has been a contributor from Day 1, and is coming off back-to-back solid seasons as a starter opposite Malcolm Butler. He's a needed upgrade for a Titans cornerback corps that was mixing and matching alongside a declining Jason McCourty in 2016. Ryan is probably near the peak of his upside, but only 26, should have plenty of solid football left in the tank.
Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter
Mar 9 - 11:35 PM
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AngryPatriot
Footballguy
good tackler.... thank you!
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Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Of course it is possible, Butler isn't getting signed by another team as they would have to give up a 1sr round pick. I think it has been over a decade since that has happened. Butler has no leverage, if the Pat's don't trade him he has to play his ### off next year so he can hit a big payday.
Spike
Footballguy
Why? What if you're a team in the 20-30 range and you need a very good CB? Why not then put together a 4 year, 50 million offer (or whatever) and force the Pats hand?
At best, you get an excellent CB and you might have been looking to draft one anyway? At worst, you make the Pats match and pay out that much more.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Sure, it is possible it could happen but not very likely. I'm assuming you understand the difference a team will have to pay Butler versus what they would pay a rookie corner with the first round pick they give up to sign him. You are basically signing a free agent at top dollar and giving up a first round pick, that is a steep price and why it is so rare of an occurence in the NFL.
Boston
Footballguy
Outstanding issues:
*Hightower-The big one...get him and everything else is gravy...lose him and there's a big hole to fill and I don't think the answer is currently on the roster...
*Butler-trade him/extend him/match an offer/bring him back for a year at low money...this could go in a few directions...
*Jimmy G-No need to expand on this...
*Blount-Re-sign or replace...
Was very pleased with yesterday (and the day before with Allen) but still a long way to go...
*Hightower-The big one...get him and everything else is gravy...lose him and there's a big hole to fill and I don't think the answer is currently on the roster...
*Butler-trade him/extend him/match an offer/bring him back for a year at low money...this could go in a few directions...
*Jimmy G-No need to expand on this...
*Blount-Re-sign or replace...
Was very pleased with yesterday (and the day before with Allen) but still a long way to go...
tombonneau
Footballguy
I think Cyrus Jones can be competent in the slot. His disaster of a rookie year was more tied to punt returns than his play on D. And I'd expect BB to prioritize in the draft a DB, WR or RB who they can use on returns. That's one of the reasons I could really seem them looking at McCaffrey at 32.