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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (5 Viewers)

Now Butler wants to make it work with Pats, news has been all over the place on this one :popcorn:  


Jeff Howe @jeffphowe



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All that said, I was given a strong indication Butler prefers to be a "Patriot for life." He wants to make it work in New England.
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One is unrestricted and the other is not...they get treated differently...
I know that, but you're not getting my point. IMO it doesn't appear as if they plan on keeping Butler long term as that would be a ton of money tied up at the CB position. I'd rather have Butler over Gilmore- he's already proven to be very good in the system and would very likely have come cheaper. So, it really only makes sense IMO if they plan on keeping both long term (doesn't seem likely), strongly prefer Gilmore to Butler (again, doesn't seem likely), or plan on getting a nice return back for Butler (seems more likely IMO).

 
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Ooh, I think Bulkhead would be a great addition. He is bigger than Lewis or White, probably around 220. Me like- and he has a burk head, harder than normal.

 
To follow up on Butler, the story goes that prior to the season that just ended, NE went to Butler and added up the amount he would make under NE control. Basically peanuts for 2016, $4 million for 2017, and franchise tagged for $15 million in 2018 = a little below $20 million. The Pats said they would give him $21 million with $13 million as a signing bonus. That was summer 2016. Butler said no. 

Now Butler sounds like he wants at least what Logan Ryan got ($10 million a year) and feels he is worth what Gilmore got ($13 million a year). Except he isn't on the open market like the other guys were. 

 
After barrage of player acquisitions last week, Pats are $34 million under the cap (without reworking or extending any contracts). 

 
After barrage of player acquisitions last week, Pats are $34 million under the cap (without reworking or extending any contracts). 
As of today the most surprising thing this offseason maybe the fact that Amendola's contract hasn't been addressed yet....

 
Hopefully Hightower gets about 10mil/yr of that free cap money, then cut Amendola and free up some more space and sign those medium level guys BB is so freakin good at finding.

 
Just interesting how an UDFA who was given a shot by a team and was so humble for the last few years is now getting all salty that he's actually playing out the deal he agreed to.  Human nature, I know, especially when they paid Gilmore more than anyone would have guessed.

He has zero leverage.  Be happy you were given opportunity to showcase your talents and wait your turn for the big payday...that will most likely be elsewhere now.

 
Im not gonna get bitter with Butler, if i were him having played as a top 5 corner for 2 of the last 3 years on a peanuts contract id be looking to get paid too.  He deserves to get paid and i hope he does, would definitely prefer it was in NE.

 
I don't think Butler has done anything for people to consider him bitter.

He would like to negotiate for a new contract.  Patriots are content with him playing for the $3.9m tender and will readdress the contract after this season.

The Patriots may have made him an offer after last season. He rejected it. Feels he can do better. Not bitter.

 
If Butler signs his tender in New England, allowing him to be signed to an offer sheet by New Orleans, and New England doesn't match, then New England gets the higher of the 2 first round draft picks from New Orleans, which would be #11.
Yup...so in the big scheme of things (if it were to happen) it is Cooks-#11-fourth round pick for Butler-#32-third round pick...I could see BB and Payton figuring out something else since they have a good relationship...imagine if after all these moves they ended up with the #11 and #12 pick in the first round...who knows what will happen but they always make it interesting...

 
If Butler signs his tender in New England, allowing him to be signed to an offer sheet by New Orleans, and New England doesn't match, then New England gets the higher of the 2 first round draft picks from New Orleans, which would be #11.
You have it backwards. He can negotiate with other teams and sign an offer sheet with another team as long as he doesn't sign the tender. Once he signs the tender, he loses the right to negotiate with other teams and at that point could only be traded. Technically speaking, once he signed the tender he could have to play this year in NE for $3.91 million if they were inclined to keep him. If he did sign an offer sheet, NE could always match. At this point, NE holds all the cards and they could elect to move on and facilitate a trade. But they could dig in and play hardball if they want to. 

 
You have it backwards. He can negotiate with other teams and sign an offer sheet with another team as long as he doesn't sign the tender. Once he signs the tender, he loses the right to negotiate with other teams and at that point could only be traded. Technically speaking, once he signed the tender he could have to play this year in NE for $3.91 million if they were inclined to keep him. If he did sign an offer sheet, NE could always match. At this point, NE holds all the cards and they could elect to move on and facilitate a trade. But they could dig in and play hardball if they want to. 
Thank you Anarchy. You are correct.

 
If Butler signs his tender in New England, allowing him to be signed to an offer sheet by New Orleans, and New England doesn't match, then New England gets the higher of the 2 first round draft picks from New Orleans, which would be #11.
There is no way New Orleans gives up the #11 pick ...More than likely some type of trade that would send the Patriots the #32 pick as well as something else...Maybe a third round pick. I think the Patriots would be crazy to let Butler go.

 
Worst case status quo stands and Butler + Gilmore would make the NE secondary pretty decent, I guess. 

 
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Worst case status quo stands and Butler + Gilmore would make the NE secondary pretty decent, I guess. 
Whether it is Garropolo or Butler the Pats are in good shape...either they keep them or get a nice return in a deal...as far as 2017 is concerned they can't go wrong...

 
Could be the end of the Brandon Bolden era...
If Burkhead can deliver 90% of Bolden's ST value while providing 200% of Bolden's value as an actual RB I'll be very happy. I honestly think Blount getting hurt in 15 with no real backup plan in place cost them a shot at another SB. So having a RB4 who can play ST *and* actually play the RB position effectively (assuming week 16/17 aren't a mirage) is an upgrade.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Bolden had a bigger cap hit last year than Blount, Lewis, White, Mitchell, Butler, Garoppolo . . . well, you get my point. Not sure I heard Bolden's name in any of the broadcasts.
I thought they cut him early in the season...he's been a zero factor.

 
tombonneau said:
If Burkhead can deliver 90% of Bolden's ST value while providing 200% of Bolden's value as an actual RB I'll be very happy. I honestly think Blount getting hurt in 15 with no real backup plan in place cost them a shot at another SB. So having a RB4 who can play ST *and* actually play the RB position effectively (assuming week 16/17 aren't a mirage) is an upgrade.
Yeah, it was like Bolden took a step forward in ST and a step backwards at RB the last few years...at one point I thought he had a chance to become a solid RB...

 
BigSteelThrill said:
And Lewis at the end of the year, as this is his last year under contract.
He makes peanuts...let's see how he looks this year now that there has been a lot more time since his last injury...if they want him back it probably won't cost much...

 
The money or the success? The "success", like if they win another SB with Hightower and he has a few more great years in NE, could also translate into more money in the long run, post career, possible HOF, brand. Maybe that's not how everyone thinks but it's also  smart.

What I don't get is the Butler thing. They have the cap space, the kid seems like a great teammate, very good CB, instrumental in past success.... what's not to like? Why not pay him some freakin' money? Was the Gilmore signing a bit of panic or is there something else going on? It's baffling if they don't keep him.

 
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The money of the success? The "success", like if they win another SB with Hightowerand he has a few more great years in NE, could also translate into more money in the long run, post career, possible HOF, brand. Maybe that's not how everyone thinks but it's smart. What I don't get is the Butler thing. They have the cap space, the kid seems like a great teammate, very good CB, instrumental in past success.... what's not to like? Why not pay him some freakin' money? Was the Gilmore signing a bit of panic or is there something else going on? It's baffling if they don't keep him.
Hate to keep harping on it but it seems that the issue is the Pats want to treat him as a restricted free agent and Butler wants to be treated as unrestricted...unless there is something else going on it appears to be that simple...

 
You're right, no doubt. Nothing wrong with 3.9 mil- and separating both issues... we'll see what happens. But....KEEP BUTLER!!! lol It's be great if he plays for the tender, franchise him next year... It's hard to believe they would sign him to a similar contract as Gilmore, that's a lot of money at the CB position.

 
You're right, no doubt. Nothing wrong with 3.9 mil- and separating both issues... we'll see what happens. But....KEEP BUTLER!!! lol It's be great if he plays for the tender, franchise him next year... It's hard to believe they would sign him to a similar contract as Gilmore, that's a lot of money at the CB position.
To echo what I posted earlier, prior to the 2016 season, the Pats approached Butler using the following logic. Butler would be under team control for the 2016, 2017, and 2018 seasons based on one year remaining on his contract ($600,000), the RFA tender ($3.9 million), and the franchise tag (currently $14.2 million). Butler could ##### and moan all he wanted, but those were the numbers and there was nothing he could do to change them (except hold out). Those years of Patriots control added up to $19.7 million . . . an he would not have made any really money until Year Three.

New England is said to have offered him $21 million for those three years (and likely a provision that he could not be franchised) with $13 million as a signing bonus to get him a decent chunk of change right away. It sounds like Butler and his agent wanted retroactive pay for his first two seasons earning peanuts and he wanted $10 million a year (which sounded like the number he wanted heading into this NFL season). Then the Pats signed Gilmore for $13 million a season, and apparently Butler and his agent feel he is worth that as well.

New England is still perturbed that Butler didn't take the $21 million they offered him last year and cited that he was not on the open market to demand $10-13 million a year. The same exact situation happened in Denver. The Broncos gave a tender offer to Chris Harris and then went out and signed Aqib Talib to a big contract. Harris played started the next season playing on the RFA tender amount and then worked out a multi-year extension between $8-9 million a year.

The problem NE (and the rest of the league) has or should have is that caving on one guy will cause others to demand more money or a trade before playing out their rookie contract. I agree with everyone else that Butler was way underpaid, but signing as an UDFA that by definition pays peanuts is the way the system works. Yes, the Patriots have the money to pay him more than $7 million that they offered last year, but I bet that they are probably using the same numbers as last year as a baseline ($3.9 million this year and $14.2 million if they franchised him next year = 2 years, $18.1 million. If Butler wants $10-13 million a year, he's unlikely to get that much from NE..

We don't know what Butler is asking for, but it will be interesting to see if he signs a tender offer or gets traded and gets a new deal what the numbers actually are. If he goes elsewhere and signs a 3 year, $20 million deal then the Patriots didn't really want him back.

 
So if a Butler accepts a deal from another team ... and NE declines to match the offer, that team would have to send a 1st rd pick to NE?

Why would any team offer Butler a top dollar contract and give up their 1st rd pick ...when they could wait until next year and sign him for the same deal without giving up a pick?

 
So if a Butler accepts a deal from another team ... and NE declines to match the offer, that team would have to send a 1st rd pick to NE?

Why would any team offer Butler a top dollar contract and give up their 1st rd pick ...when they could wait until next year and sign him for the same deal without giving up a pick?
I don't think anyone is giving up a 1st for him.

 
So if a Butler accepts a deal from another team ... and NE declines to match the offer, that team would have to send a 1st rd pick to NE?

Why would any team offer Butler a top dollar contract and give up their 1st rd pick ...when they could wait until next year and sign him for the same deal without giving up a pick?
If he gets moved my guess it is to NO...would not be surprised if the teams wanted to do something involving Cooks-Butler but could not because of the tender situation...if he now is OK going there I could see them revisiting a deal and the Pats getting picks back...

 
So if a Butler accepts a deal from another team ... and NE declines to match the offer, that team would have to send a 1st rd pick to NE?

Why would any team offer Butler a top dollar contract and give up their 1st rd pick ...when they could wait until next year and sign him for the same deal without giving up a pick?
Hence the "restrictive" tag.

 
So if a Butler accepts a deal from another team ... and NE declines to match the offer, that team would have to send a 1st rd pick to NE?

Why would any team offer Butler a top dollar contract and give up their 1st rd pick ...when they could wait until next year and sign him for the same deal without giving up a pick?
Teams in the top half of the draft likely won't sign him to an offer sheet . . . which is why there is more talk of a trade than a team signing him and giving NE their first round pick.

It probably makes more sense for NE to just keep him and try to force him to play this year for the $3.91 tender offer and potentially the $14-15 million franchise number next year. NE has no real incentive to move on from Butler unless they think they are getting a decent return in a trade. In fact, IMO, the longer this goes on the less likely another team will sign Butler to an offer sheet (less cap money available) . . . meaning Butler's contract demands should start going down as he realizes he doesn't really have a lot of leverage. Maybe the Saints will give him the 5 year deal for $50-60 million that he wants. But NE won't pay two CB's that much.

I agree with other folks that are saying just pay him if they are close money wise, but if they are off by $10+ million and Butler won't budge then maybe they trade him. It would be nice for NE to have Gilmore and Butler, but that's starting to look less likely.

 
Teams in the top half of the draft likely won't sign him to an offer sheet . . . which is why there is more talk of a trade than a team signing him and giving NE their first round pick.

It probably makes more sense for NE to just keep him and try to force him to play this year for the $3.91 tender offer and potentially the $14-15 million franchise number next year. NE has no real incentive to move on from Butler unless they think they are getting a decent return in a trade. In fact, IMO, the longer this goes on the less likely another team will sign Butler to an offer sheet (less cap money available) . . . meaning Butler's contract demands should start going down as he realizes he doesn't really have a lot of leverage. Maybe the Saints will give him the 5 year deal for $50-60 million that he wants. But NE won't pay two CB's that much.

I agree with other folks that are saying just pay him if they are close money wise, but if they are off by $10+ million and Butler won't budge then maybe they trade him. It would be nice for NE to have Gilmore and Butler, but that's starting to look less likely.
It seems to me that he isn't part of their long-term plans. Why else sign Gilmore to that huge deal? They have to know it's going to up Butler's demands, and it's pretty obvious they have no intention on meeting them otherwise they very likely would have already done so.

 
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Patriots re-signed ILB Dont'a Hightower to a four-year, $43.5 million contract with $19 million guaranteed.

The Jets' birthday cupcakes to Hightower earlier this week weren't enough to convince him to sign with their league-worst franchise, while the Steelers never seemed to be a serious contender. All roads led back to New England. Hightower's market didn't develop quite like he had hoped, and the Patriots were able to keep their 27-year-old inside thumper after trading away ILB Jamie Collins to the Browns last season. Hightower was Pro Football Focus' No. 5 inside linebacker out of 59 qualifiers in 2016, receiving plus marks across the board for his pass rush, coverage, and run defense. Everything seems to be working in the Patriots' favor this offseason. They probably have more up their sleeve.

 
All gravy from this point on...this offseason is going so well actual games will be a letdown...

Anarchy...where does this put them capwise?

 
All gravy from this point on...this offseason is going so well actual games will be a letdown...

Anarchy...where does this put them capwise?
Depends what they allocate for first year salary and how they spread the guarantees. They had $34 million left prior to this. They still should have $25 million left.

 
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