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"Integrity of the Game" (1 Viewer)

MikeApf

Footballguy
Great article featuring Mike Tomlin's views on whether the Bengals and Patriots should play their starters, which would help Pitt's chances or rest them, which would hurt them. My question to all here is: if the Bengals and/or Patriots rest their starters for 1 or 2 quarters, thereby making it easier for the Jets to make it to the playoffs at the expense of the Steelers, is the "integrity of the game" in complete jeapardy? Will the Patriots and Bengals be held to the same accountability as the Colts? No, those teams aren't going for a perfect season, but they would be potentially impacting who gets in the playoffs.

Tomlin for one is not whining and moaning about it (to his great credit). There is also a good snippet in here about how Pitt once played Big Ben in a meaningless game and he sustained a concussion that may have kept him out of the first round of the playoffs had Pittsburg not received a bye.

I am ok with teams resting their starters, but since there has been such an uproar on the board over the Colts, I wonder if everyone will take Cincy and NE to task this week as hard as they took Indy?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-s...p&type=lgns

Tomlin not lobbying Bengals, Patriots for help

By ALAN ROBINSON, AP Sports Writer

15 hours, 16 minutes ago

How much the Bengals’ Benson plays against the Jets and the Patriots’ Brady plays against the Texans on Sunday might determine not only the winners of those games, but whether the Pittsburgh Steelers make the playoffs.

Regardless, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin isn’t about to lobby another coach to play his best players, even if Pittsburgh’s season may be riding on any such decision.

To Tomlin, the Steelers (8-7) put themselves in a position where they need a lot of assistance to make the AFC playoffs, so they shouldn’t go begging for help.

“I could care less how the Bengals approach what it is they do,” Tomlin said Tuesday.

To make the playoffs, the Steelers must defeat the Dolphins (7-8) in Miami on Sunday and hope multiple games fall in their favor. Among the scenarios are the AFC East champion Patriots (10-5) beating Houston (8-7) and the AFC North champion Bengals (10-5) beating the Jets (8-7).

However, the Patriots and Bengals may not play their regulars very long, if at all, because they are in the playoffs regardless of the outcome. Also, both teams will play the following weekend, one of them only six days after Sunday’s regular season-ending game.

The Steelers’ chances of returning to the playoffs for the fifth time in six seasons were lessened when the Colts (14-1) rested their starters after taking a five-point lead Sunday, and the Jets came back to win 29-15. That put the Jets in position to make the playoffs if they win on Sunday, just as the Ravens (8-7) can if they win at Oakland.

Despite the Colts’ much-debated decision that not risking injury to a key player was more important than going for a 16-0 season, Tomlin doesn’t believe in telling another team what to do with its personnel.

“I really have no opinion,” Tomlin said. “I trust that those coaches are going to do what they feel is best for their football teams. I’m going to do what’s best for mine. Very rarely do I pass judgment on the decision-making of other coaches in regard to other teams, because I don’t have a pulse on their group.”

Tomlin understands the delicate balance between playing regulars enough to keep them sharp but not enough to get hurt. Last season, Ben Roethlisberger(notes) sustained a concussion after Tomlin chose to play him in a meaningless season-ending game against Cleveland.

Luckily for the Steelers, they didn’t play their first playoff game until two weeks later. That gave the quarterback time to heal, and he went on to lead them to a Super Bowl title. But if the Steelers had played as soon as six days after Roethlisberger was hurt, he might not have been ready.

Tomlin also doesn’t believe it’s necessary to argue for maintaining the integrity of the game. He feels any competitive team wants to win no matter who is playing.

In 2004, the Steelers rested most of their regulars in a game the Bills needed to win to make the playoffs, yet Pittsburgh won 29-24 at Buffalo despite playing mostly backups. Not only did the Steelers keep their starters healthy, they found a future 1,000-yard rusher on their bench in Willie Parker(notes), who had his first 100-yard game that day.

“I think we’re all competitors and we play to win,” Tomlin said. “Every time we come out of that tunnel, that’s the intent. The ramifications, in regard to other teams, is irrelevant to me. It’s more about the people that I come out of the tunnel with and our commitment to this organization, our fans, our community. So we come out to win.”

If the Steelers wanted to avoid relying on outside teams for help—teams that might not feel the same urgency to win this weekend as they do—they could have prevented it by winning more games earlier in the season.

The Steelers defeated the Chargers (12-3), Vikings (11-4), Broncos (8-7) and Ravens (8-7) but lost to the Chiefs (3-12), Browns (4-11), Raiders (5-10) and Bears (6-9).

“This our bed. We’re going to lay in it,” Tomlin said. “We created this situation. What we are going to do is control what we can control, and that’s our preparation of play for the game. We’re not going to cry over spilled milk. If there’s any level of disappointment in terms of how this thing unfolds, it’s going to be on us.”

In a player move, the Steelers signed first-year defensive back Trae Williams(notes) and put rookie defensive back Keenan Lewis(notes) (back) on the injured reserve list. Williams had been on the Seahawks’ practice squad.

 
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All a coach can do is worry about their own team. They can't worry about anyone else. If they want to rest starters, that should be no issue (but it always is).

As a bettor, I don't touch any week 17 games.

 
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No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....

 
If you have to depend on what someone else does in order to get into the playoffs, then you have no legitimate complaint that they should have done this or that. The best way to ensure you are in the playoffs is to win the damn games you need to.

 
If you have to depend on what someone else does in order to get into the playoffs, then you have no legitimate complaint that they should have done this or that. The best way to ensure you are in the playoffs is to win the damn games you need to.
:) You do what you think is best for your team.
 
If you have to depend on what someone else does in order to get into the playoffs, then you have no legitimate complaint that they should have done this or that. The best way to ensure you are in the playoffs is to win the damn games you need to.
Yeah, this is pretty much what Tomlin said. Still, it would be a big deal to have them eliminated. They are defending champs and even though they have struggled at times this year they are dangerous and could go on a run. Consider the fact that they have beaten the Chargers this year. Too bad they squandered those games against Cleveland, Kansas City, etc.
 
If you have to depend on what someone else does in order to get into the playoffs, then you have no legitimate complaint that they should have done this or that. The best way to ensure you are in the playoffs is to win the damn games you need to.
:) As a Bengals fan it pains me to like Tomlin, but every time I hear him talk I like him more.
 
Tomlin is 100% correct. The Pats and Bengals need to do what's best for them. There is no damage to the integrity of the league (unless you consider ther performances of the Steelers against OAK, KC, and CLE ;) ).

 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.

 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
That was well said...there is a difference in this particular regard.
 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
 
As a Browns fan, I'm still bitter about Dungy sitting down the whole Colts team Week 17 2007 so Tennessee can walk into the playoffs at our expense so it does happen.

Should the Browns have beaten Cincy the week before to lock it up? Hell yeah. No excuses.

 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
We'll see in 2022, 15 years after the fact, how many people are still talking about the 16-0 New England Patriots. Outside of metropolitan Boston, nobody will be.
 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
Since they play the Jets on Sunday night, the NE game will already be over. They'll know where they stand at kickoff. And i honestly think its irrelevant because i don't think they can beat the Jets at home anyway.
 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
We'll see in 2022, 15 years after the fact, how many people are still talking about the 16-0 New England Patriots. Outside of metropolitan Boston, nobody will be.
Well that's because they went 18-1. If they went 19-0, they would be remembered. As a Colts fan, are you OK with what happened? Polian isn't doing himself any favors talking about how important the regular season winning streak and regular season decade best-record were- now there's some stuff no one will remember.
 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
We'll see in 2022, 15 years after the fact, how many people are still talking about the 16-0 New England Patriots. Outside of metropolitan Boston, nobody will be.
Good point, just like nobody but Don Shula and Mercury Morris talks about the '72 Dolphins anymore. Wait, I'm talking about them right now. Oh snap!
 
Teams that have played well enough up to this point to have clinched a playoff spot have earned the right to prepare themselves for the playoffs however they see fit. Teams that are on the bubble and need to rely on someone else losing have put themselves in that situation and have no right to complain.

 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
Since they play the Jets on Sunday night, the NE game will already be over. They'll know where they stand at kickoff. And i honestly think its irrelevant because i don't think they can beat the Jets at home anyway.
So if New England wins, then Cincy will have to win to get the 3 seed, right? So how would the game be irrelevant?
 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
We'll see in 2022, 15 years after the fact, how many people are still talking about the 16-0 New England Patriots. Outside of metropolitan Boston, nobody will be.
Good point, just like nobody but Don Shula and Mercury Morris talks about the '72 Dolphins anymore. Wait, I'm talking about them right now. Oh snap!
Um, they won a super bowl.
 
The good thing about a topic like this is most of you will never have to worry about whether or not your team will rest its starters.

 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
We'll see in 2022, 15 years after the fact, how many people are still talking about the 16-0 New England Patriots. Outside of metropolitan Boston, nobody will be.
Good point, just like nobody but Don Shula and Mercury Morris talks about the '72 Dolphins anymore. Wait, I'm talking about them right now. Oh snap!
Um, they won a super bowl.
Uh, Patriots didn't go undefeated.
 
There is no damage to the integrity of the game by resting starters at the end of the season. Not the same situation as the Colts. The Colts didn't damage the integrity of the game, this kind of thing happens every year. The Colts showed they don't care about history and that they can't see there are bigger things than just winning the Super Bowl. Like many have said, people don't remember 40 or 60 Super Bowl winners, but they all would've remembered this Colts team if they had gone undefeated.
We'll see in 2022, 15 years after the fact, how many people are still talking about the 16-0 New England Patriots. Outside of metropolitan Boston, nobody will be.
Good point, just like nobody but Don Shula and Mercury Morris talks about the '72 Dolphins anymore. Wait, I'm talking about them right now. Oh snap!
Um, they won a super bowl.
Uh, Patriots didn't go undefeated.
No #### sherlock.
 
I agree with Tomlin completely.

That said, I think it stinks that the Jets will probably make the playoffs because they play two teams in weeks 16 & 17 that have nothing to play for.

 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
Since they play Sunday night they will know if they have a shot at the #3 seed before kickoff. If the Pats win the Bengals have nothing to play for, if the Pats lose the Bengals may have something to play for. There are scenarios where the Bengals might not like the matchup if they get the #3 seed and opt to go for #4 instead.
 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
Since they play the Jets on Sunday night, the NE game will already be over. They'll know where they stand at kickoff. And i honestly think its irrelevant because i don't think they can beat the Jets at home anyway.
So if New England wins, then Cincy will have to win to get the 3 seed, right? So how would the game be irrelevant?
If New England wins they get the #3 seed and Cincy will get the #4 seed and have nothing to play for Sunday night.
 
Good point, just like nobody but Don Shula and Mercury Morris talks about the '72 Dolphins anymore. Wait, I'm talking about them right now. Oh snap!
Um, they won a super bowl.
Uh, Patriots didn't go undefeated.
No #### sherlock.
Don't get pissy, man. Just showing that I'm pretty sure we don't keep mentioning the '72 Dolphins because they won a Super Bowl.
 
Good point, just like nobody but Don Shula and Mercury Morris talks about the '72 Dolphins anymore. Wait, I'm talking about them right now. Oh snap!
Um, they won a super bowl.
Uh, Patriots didn't go undefeated.
No #### sherlock.
Don't get pissy, man. Just showing that I'm pretty sure we don't keep mentioning the '72 Dolphins because they won a Super Bowl.
It was the combo. Without the SB nobody would care.
 
the afc has 3 byes this year since the jets are getting handed a playoff spot.
Hey, I don't think the Jets deserved much this year and to me, a chance to go to the playoffs is nothing more than an Opportunity for Sanchez to get more experience for next year and beyond, which I LOVE at this point... This guy needs all he can get.I do think they match up well with Cincy and I'll look forward to that game and possibly another.That said, ALL of these other teams that are on the playoff bubble right below the Jets have also handed the Jets this opportunity by not taking care of business and every one of em and their fans can point to horrible horrible losses where those fans, I'm sure felt they had no business losing. When you don't take care of your own business, you look like a wuss IMO if you cry about what happens to another team......No one wanted that last playoff spot by the way they played lately so, one of em gets it, happens to be the Jets.....Most years I would barely even want it and might even rather see a better draft pick - This year I want Sanchez thrown into whatever Fire may come!!!!!!Bring it.
 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
I would think most teams would rather play at Indy (who historically gags when resting players before a playoff bye) in the divisional round right now than play at San Diego and face the Chargers, who are as hot as possible right now. Simply put, the Chargers are a scarier team than the Colts are right now.
 
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And i honestly think its irrelevant because i don't think they can beat the Jets at home anyway.
Yes it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that a 10-5 team has a shot against the 2009 NY Jets and their 5-3 home record.
TLEF... That kind of talk makes me cringe and any Jet fans should cringe...Cincy could play Joe Schmoe at QB..... If Sanchez throws 4 picks, they could lose to UConn.This week is set up for the Jets to be a disaster if they lose to scrubs.... Again, I'm just hoping to get Sanchez as much pressure experience as possible... I like the matchup but, to say someone, anyone CAN'T Beat the Jets.... :goodposting:
 
it will be a good experience for sanchez and hopefully a confidence boost for the jets which keeps them excited during the offseason to work hard for next year.

 
No way do the Bengals play their starters very long.....Bengals will know their seeding by gametime Sunday night.....they will not want to put the Steelers into the playoffs by winning if it comes down to it....
Can't the Bengals still get the #3 seed? If so, I don't think they rest their starters. Who is going to want to go Indy in the semifinals?
I would think most teams would rather play at Indy (who historically gags when resting players before a playoff bye) in the divisional round right now than play at San Diego and face the Chargers, who are as hot as possible right now. Simply put, the Chargers are a scarier team than the Colts are right now.
I think you can make an argument either way on which team is scarier to play. The benefits of being the #3 seed vs the #4 seed is you get to play the #6 seed in the 1st round of the playoffs and you increase your chances of hosting the AFC Championship Game. You need to weigh that vs the possible benefits of giving some of your starters a week's rest.I think if I were the coach of the Bengals or Patriots I would sit any player nursing an injury and play all of my healthy starters.
 
it will be a good experience for sanchez and hopefully a confidence boost for the jets which keeps them excited during the offseason to work hard for next year.
Yes because they need all the justification they can get for the prices they are asking for PSLs in the new stadium.
 
It was the combo. Without the SB nobody would care.
Agreed. It's all or nothing. Point was that the Colts didn't care about being remembered for accomplishing something legendary when given the oppurtunity. And I think that's sad.
They seem to think that it might have hurt their chances to win the SB, which is what they seem to have as THE goal. And that's their right.
Absolutely their right. They probably thought being 16-0 might even hurt their chances at the SB with the added pressure but I think that plan has backfired. The Colts faithful are so upset about last week that anything short of a SB win may cause the villagers to break out their torches and pitchforks.Trying and failing >>> Not trying and failing.
 
It was the combo. Without the SB nobody would care.
Agreed. It's all or nothing. Point was that the Colts didn't care about being remembered for accomplishing something legendary when given the oppurtunity. And I think that's sad.
They seem to think that it might have hurt their chances to win the SB, which is what they seem to have as THE goal. And that's their right.
Absolutely their right. They probably thought being 16-0 might even hurt their chances at the SB with the added pressure but I think that plan has backfired. The Colts faithful are so upset about last week that anything short of a SB win may cause the villagers to break out their torches and pitchforks.Trying and failing >>> Not trying and failing.
:goodposting:
 
It was the combo. Without the SB nobody would care.
Agreed. It's all or nothing. Point was that the Colts didn't care about being remembered for accomplishing something legendary when given the oppurtunity. And I think that's sad.
They seem to think that it might have hurt their chances to win the SB, which is what they seem to have as THE goal. And that's their right.
Absolutely their right. They probably thought being 16-0 might even hurt their chances at the SB with the added pressure but I think that plan has backfired. The Colts faithful are so upset about last week that anything short of a SB win may cause the villagers to break out their torches and pitchforks.Trying and failing >>> Not trying and failing.
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
 
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
Even if they do win the SB, this team will be more remembered as the "what if" SB winner. You don't get rid of that footnote.
 
There are a huge number of precedents for NFL teams to coast into the play-offs.

The Colts were an exception because they were undefeated and their fans and players, as well as NFL fans, had great interest in their season.

 
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
Even if they do win the SB, this team will be more remembered as the "what if" SB winner. You don't get rid of that footnote.
They could also say "what if" Manning got injured in that last game. You play to win the SB. Period.
 
It was the combo. Without the SB nobody would care.
Agreed. It's all or nothing. Point was that the Colts didn't care about being remembered for accomplishing something legendary when given the oppurtunity. And I think that's sad.
They seem to think that it might have hurt their chances to win the SB, which is what they seem to have as THE goal. And that's their right.
Absolutely their right. They probably thought being 16-0 might even hurt their chances at the SB with the added pressure but I think that plan has backfired. The Colts faithful are so upset about last week that anything short of a SB win may cause the villagers to break out their torches and pitchforks.Trying and failing >>> Not trying and failing.
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
Perception trumps reality and ignorant fans outnumber smarter ones by a wide margin.The fans will get over it, they always do but I am having trouble thinking of one instance where fans were more angry with a SB contending team.
 
I am ok with teams resting their starters, but since there has been such an uproar on the board over the Colts, I wonder if everyone will take Cincy and NE to task this week as hard as they took Indy?
It's not the same situation. The majority of those upset about the Colts resting their starters were more concerned about going undefeated rather than the "integrity of the game".With the Pats and Bengals having no shot of 'perfection', their interest is performing best in the playoffs and hunting the super bowl.As such, they have no concern over who else makes the playoffs; their concern is the balance between staying sharp and keeping their players healthy.(That doesn't take into account whether a team would or should intentionally throw a game in order to achieve or prevent a particular matchup. - That's a similar debate though.)
 
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
Even if they do win the SB, this team will be more remembered as the "what if" SB winner. You don't get rid of that footnote.
They could also say "what if" Manning got injured in that last game. You play to win the SB. Period.
Of course winning the SB is the goal but after 40+ SBs the impact is diminished. Most fans can't name the last 5 SB winners without Google (I doubt most people here could do it without giving it serious thought). But most everyone knows that the Dolphins are the only undefeated team.Even Polian knows that the Colts #### the bed with his lame justifications during his interview with Eisen yesterday. Saying the regular season win streak and most regular season wins of the decade were more significant than a shot at going undefeated (the Colts risked injury to Manning, which in itself is a laughable concept, to achieve those records).It's water under the bridge but the Colts made a mistake, the players know it, the fans know it and Polian finally realized it just a little too late.
 
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
Even if they do win the SB, this team will be more remembered as the "what if" SB winner. You don't get rid of that footnote.
They could also say "what if" Manning got injured in that last game. You play to win the SB. Period.
Manning hasn't been injured his entire career! Maybe if they get down by a few scores with time running out in the SB this season, they should rest him so as not to take a chance on next season.
 
BusterTBronco said:
If they don't win the SB it won't be because they were not undefeated, it will be because they are not good enough just like the Pats. Their smarter fans will know this.
Even if they do win the SB, this team will be more remembered as the "what if" SB winner. You don't get rid of that footnote.
They could also say "what if" Manning got injured in that last game. You play to win the SB. Period.
Sorry. Wrong. This Colts team has already won a superbowl within the last few years. To have a once in a lifetime chance at historical greatness and to throw it away in the manner they did is unforgiveable.
They are the ones playing, it is their decision how best to go about it. A 2nd SB puts them in a different catagory than "one & dones" and that's what they want. Who are you or anyone else to say otherwise?
 

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