Investment Time of the Year - Roth IRA 2016 (1 Viewer)

[Mario Kart]

The contribution window is almost open and I'm wondering where my money should go. I currently have four places my money is in and I'm curious what the overall thought might be going in.

Focus on Investing:

- I'm not a trader. For the most part I do allow my money to sit and grow.

- I'm mainly looking for Dividend type returns versus "high-risk" stocks.

- I'm working with $5,500 and would prefer to only go with two options however, I'm open to three.

- This isn't the only investing I do so the outlook is a bit more conservative.

So, current places where money is:

- VDIGX - Vanguard Dividend Growth (4.36% YTD, 15.80% 3-yr)

- VWNFX - Windsor Fund II (-.57% YTD, 13.88% 3-yr)

- BP - British Petroleum (7.64 Dividend yield... right now based on stock price)

- RDS A - Royal Dutch Shell (8.15% Dividend yield... right now based on stock price)

- Something new

Curious to what others might think about where to go.

 

[Dentist]

What's the breakdown of where your money goes in VDIGX? like percentages of domestic vs. international and large vs. small cap

I'm a big fan of something really basic like VT (vanguard total world stock fund) and VTI (vanguard total us stock market).. those are ETFs.

not a big fan of individual oil plays

 

[mquinnjr]

I'm 32, and am getting to a point where after the 2016 contributions, my Roth IRA will be my "Emergency Fund." To address the "you shouldn't use the Roth IRA as an emergency fund" argument, I'm currently 100% cash on my emergency fund, and measuring out 6 months of emergency expenses vs. max yearly Roth IRA contributions, I'd be at 6 months of all living expenses full coverage at the point of basis contributions, thus being able to use the funds in an emergency with no tax exposure unless I remained unemployed for more than 8 months (2 months of severance + 6 months withdrawing basis), as well as 20% loss protection vs. 6-months expense coverage for a market downturn. This is because I receive a week of severance for every year worked if were to be laid off, and am coming up on 8 years with my current employer, so 2 months of "emergency" coverage built-in with my employer in the event this were to ever happen.

With all of that out of the way, I invest my Roth IRA with Schwab as follows (no upfront purchase fees for their preferred list ETF's):

SCHB - Broad Market ETF - 40% (0.03% Expense Ratio)

SCHA - Int'l Equity ETF - 20% (0.08% Expense Ratio)

SCHM - Mid-Cap Equity ETF - 10% (0.07% Expense Ratio)

SCHA - Small-Cap Equity ETF - 10% (0.08% Expense Ratio)

SCHP - US TIPS ETF - 10% (0.07% Expense Ratio)

TLO - SPDR Barclays Long-Term Treasury ETF - 10% (0.10% Expense Ratio)

Works for me in terms of my age and exposure to downside/tolerance to downside. Really looking to cover all market segments (Broad (mostly large cap) domestic, mid cap domestic, small cap domestic, international, inflation protected treasuries, and long-term treasuries), which I feel that I have, and minimize my exposure to management fees (I think weighted average I'm at 0.06% overall expense ratio). You would adjust equities to your age, roughly (I'm 80% equities/20% treasuries, but I have an appetite for risk; might tick up to 70/30 in the near future) or whatever you're comfortable with.

HTH

 

[Mario Kart]

What's the breakdown of where your money goes in VDIGX?

Current breakdown, estimated, is:

- VDIGX = 38%

- VWNFX = 48%

- BP = 6%

- RDS = 6%

 

[Dentist]

What's the breakdown of where your money goes in VDIGX?

Current breakdown, estimated, is:

- VDIGX = 38%

- VWNFX = 48%

- BP = 6%

- RDS = 6%

no, i mean what does VDIGX invest in

 

[Mario Kart]

What's the breakdown of where your money goes in VDIGX?

Current breakdown, estimated, is:

- VDIGX = 38%

- VWNFX = 48%

- BP = 6%

- RDS = 6%

no, i mean what does VDIGX invest in

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/fund/vdigx

Costco Wholesale Corp. COST 2.08

Marsh & McLennan Cos. MMC 2.18

Medtronic PLC MDT 2.2

Merck & Co. Inc. MRK 2.24

McDonald's Corp. MCD 2.3

Cardinal Health Inc. CAH 2.31

Canadian National Railway Co. CNI 2.32

Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM 2.37

United Technologies Corp. UTX 2.41

Praxair Inc. PX 2.43

Oracle Corp. ORCL 2.48

Johnson & Johnson JNJ 2.49

Automatic Data Processing Inc. ADP 2.52

Colgate-Palmolive Co. CL 2.53

Lockheed Martin Corp. LMT 2.53

Chevron Corp. CVX 2.57

Honeywell International Inc. HON 2.6

Accenture PLC Cl A ACN 2.61

Nike Inc. Cl B NKE 2.71

Coca-Cola Co. KO 2.73

UnitedHealth Group Inc. UNH 2.74

TJX Cos. TJX 2.78

ACE Ltd. ACE 2.79

Microsoft Corp. MSFT 3.06

 

[Dentist]

I'm 32, and am getting to a point where after the 2016 contributions, my Roth IRA will be my "Emergency Fund." To address the "you shouldn't use the Roth IRA as an emergency fund" argument, I'm currently 100% cash on my emergency fund, and measuring out 6 months of emergency expenses vs. max yearly Roth IRA contributions, I'd be at 6 months of all living expenses full coverage at the point of basis contributions, thus being able to use the funds in an emergency with no tax exposure unless I remained unemployed for more than 8 months (2 months of severance + 6 months withdrawing basis), as well as 20% loss protection vs. 6-months expense coverage for a market downturn. This is because I receive a week of severance for every year worked if were to be laid off, and am coming up on 8 years with my current employer, so 2 months of "emergency" coverage built-in with my employer in the event this were to ever happen.

With all of that out of the way, I invest my Roth IRA with Schwab as follows (no upfront purchase fees for their preferred list ETF's):

SCHB - Broad Market ETF - 40% (0.03% Expense Ratio)

SCHA - Int'l Equity ETF - 20% (0.08% Expense Ratio)

SCHM - Mid-Cap Equity ETF - 10% (0.07% Expense Ratio)

SCHA - Small-Cap Equity ETF - 10% (0.08% Expense Ratio)

SCHP - US TIPS ETF - 10% (0.07% Expense Ratio)

TLO - SPDR Barclays Long-Term Treasury ETF - 10% (0.10% Expense Ratio)

Works for me in terms of my age and exposure to downside/tolerance to downside. Really looking to cover all market segments (Broad (mostly large cap) domestic, mid cap domestic, small cap domestic, international, inflation protected treasuries, and long-term treasuries), which I feel that I have, and minimize my exposure to management fees (I think weighted average I'm at 0.06% overall expense ratio). You would adjust equities to your age, roughly (I'm 80% equities/20% treasuries, but I have an appetite for risk; might tick up to 70/30 in the near future) or whatever you're comfortable with.

HTH

Pretty solid plan if you ask me.. rock bottom prices

 

[Dentist]

What's the breakdown of where your money goes in VDIGX?

Current breakdown, estimated, is:

- VDIGX = 38%

- VWNFX = 48%

- BP = 6%

- RDS = 6%

no, i mean what does VDIGX invest in

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/fund/vdigx

Costco Wholesale Corp. COST 2.08

Marsh & McLennan Cos. MMC 2.18

Medtronic PLC MDT 2.2

Merck & Co. Inc. MRK 2.24

McDonald's Corp. MCD 2.3

Cardinal Health Inc. CAH 2.31

Canadian National Railway Co. CNI 2.32

Exxon Mobil Corp. XOM 2.37

United Technologies Corp. UTX 2.41

Praxair Inc. PX 2.43

Oracle Corp. ORCL 2.48

Johnson & Johnson JNJ 2.49

Automatic Data Processing Inc. ADP 2.52

Colgate-Palmolive Co. CL 2.53

Lockheed Martin Corp. LMT 2.53

Chevron Corp. CVX 2.57

Honeywell International Inc. HON 2.6

Accenture PLC Cl A ACN 2.61

Nike Inc. Cl B NKE 2.71

Coca-Cola Co. KO 2.73

UnitedHealth Group Inc. UNH 2.74

TJX Cos. TJX 2.78

ACE Ltd. ACE 2.79

Microsoft Corp. MSFT 3.06

This is the information you really need.. not what you posted:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0057&FundIntExt=INT#tab=2

It's a large cap blend.

 

[mquinnjr]

I'm 32, and am getting to a point where after the 2016 contributions, my Roth IRA will be my "Emergency Fund." To address the "you shouldn't use the Roth IRA as an emergency fund" argument, I'm currently 100% cash on my emergency fund, and measuring out 6 months of emergency expenses vs. max yearly Roth IRA contributions, I'd be at 6 months of all living expenses full coverage at the point of basis contributions, thus being able to use the funds in an emergency with no tax exposure unless I remained unemployed for more than 8 months (2 months of severance + 6 months withdrawing basis), as well as 20% loss protection vs. 6-months expense coverage for a market downturn. This is because I receive a week of severance for every year worked if were to be laid off, and am coming up on 8 years with my current employer, so 2 months of "emergency" coverage built-in with my employer in the event this were to ever happen.

With all of that out of the way, I invest my Roth IRA with Schwab as follows (no upfront purchase fees for their preferred list ETF's):

SCHB - Broad Market ETF - 40% (0.03% Expense Ratio)

SCHA - Int'l Equity ETF - 20% (0.08% Expense Ratio)

SCHM - Mid-Cap Equity ETF - 10% (0.07% Expense Ratio)

SCHA - Small-Cap Equity ETF - 10% (0.08% Expense Ratio)

SCHP - US TIPS ETF - 10% (0.07% Expense Ratio)

TLO - SPDR Barclays Long-Term Treasury ETF - 10% (0.10% Expense Ratio)

Works for me in terms of my age and exposure to downside/tolerance to downside. Really looking to cover all market segments (Broad (mostly large cap) domestic, mid cap domestic, small cap domestic, international, inflation protected treasuries, and long-term treasuries), which I feel that I have, and minimize my exposure to management fees (I think weighted average I'm at 0.06% overall expense ratio). You would adjust equities to your age, roughly (I'm 80% equities/20% treasuries, but I have an appetite for risk; might tick up to 70/30 in the near future) or whatever you're comfortable with.

HTH

Pretty solid plan if you ask me.. rock bottom prices

I use Schwab because it's splitting hairs vs. Vanguard fees, but what draws me to Schwab is linked online checking with literally no fees, and ATM reimbursements world-wide. I was using Schwab ETF's in an E-trade administered Roth IRA a few years ago, and just figured I'm dumb paying trade fees on these ETF's I'm already decided upon. Personally, works for me.

My investment angle for an account like my Roth IRA for emergencies is, I can pay the lowest fees possible and roll with the market and its ETF managers/algorithms, or pay trade fees and try to beat the market on individual stocks which are not hedged and go against the ETF managers/algorithms. No brainer, pay the lowest fees possible and roll with the big money vs. going against big money and paying trade fees on your own to most likely lose anyways.

 

[Shutout]

Real estate, because: LAND— they're not making it anymore.

 

[Dentist]

Real estate, because: LAND— they're not making it anymore.

Disagree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_island

 

[Shutout]

Real estate, because: LAND— they're not making it anymore.

Disagree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_island

Yeah, but who wants to live on one of those and not every location has the ability to build one.

In all seriousness, if you have the stomach to be a landlord or it makes enough financial sense to hire a management professional, there are just so many advantages to real estate and when you are in your early to mid 30's like it seems many of our board members are, it's such an ideal time to give it a think.

I am probably biased, though. I really jumped in a few years back when it was super advantageous for buyers and that was coming off watching the first wave of baby boomers get stuck in their tracks when the great recession hit. That really changed my perception quite a bit, hearing so many people's stories about how their retirement fund shrank 30-50% in a blink and put off their retirement plans.

 

[Dentist]

Real estate, because: LAND— they're not making it anymore.

Disagree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_island

Yeah, but who wants to live on one of those and not every location has the ability to build one.

In all seriousness, if you have the stomach to be a landlord or it makes enough financial sense to hire a management professional, there are just so many advantages to real estate and when you are in your early to mid 30's like it seems many of our board members are, it's such an ideal time to give it a think.

I am probably biased, though. I really jumped in a few years back when it was super advantageous for buyers and that was coming off watching the first wave of baby boomers get stuck in their tracks when the great recession hit. That really changed my perception quite a bit, hearing so many people's stories about how their retirement fund shrank 30-50% in a blink and put off their retirement plans.

Eliminates 9/10 people... and that might be a conservative estimate.

I think it's a real pain in the butt. I like stock ETFs because i can manage them in my underwear.. they might have lower returns and more volatility... but they have liquidity and require very little time... and people who do real estate never put any value into the hours they put into it.

 

[Mario Kart]

Would you put in the $5,500 Jan 1st or would you wait a few weeks? A few months?

 

[Dentist]

Would you put in the $5,500 Jan 1st or would you wait a few weeks? A few months?

You into market timing? Don't be.

All-in on the first day

 

[EYLive]

 

[Rogi]

Shell looks good right now. It's stock is dirt cheap.

 

[Vincesanity]

FOCPX

 

[Mario Kart]

Shell looks good right now. It's stock is dirt cheap.

I'm really contemplating sticking with the two oil stocks instead of the dividend funds. BP is still a strong buy. Lowest its been since 2010 and that was briefly and before that it was ~1999 or so. Shell has just been going down similar to BP. Lowest point since 09 or so. Part of sticking with these two is to lower the ave/stock I'd have in them.

The other alternative I've been contemplating is getting into AAPL as well. But, their dividend sucks and I'd rather not gamble now. Maybe a different gamble stock but not AAPL.

 

[Vincesanity]

My favorite energy plays for 2016 are....

Spectra Energy ( SE )...6.74%

Kinder Morgan ( KMI )....3.20 ish %

 

[fantasycurse42]

Kinda garbage that you can't contribute to a ROTH IRA if you make a certain income.

 

[Vincesanity]

You can backdoor it....not self employed are you?

 

[Dentist]

Kinda garbage that you can't contribute to a ROTH IRA if you make a certain income.

It is garbage.

We're not talking about a massive tax break, it's a weak 5500 a year. 11k as a family. The limits should really be doubled at a minimum

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Kinda garbage that you can't contribute to a ROTH IRA if you make a certain income.

It is garbage.

We're not talking about a massive tax break, it's a weak 5500 a year. 11k as a family. The limits should really be doubled at a minimum

Gubmint gonna gubmint.

Meanwhile they tell people they are irresponsible savers.

 

[Vincesanity]

How about everyone gets a personal 401K with a ROTH option and then you can have an option through work as well. I think I'll text that idea to Trump.

One thing not many people qualify for but if you do it's very nice, Solo 401K for self employed. It has a ROTH option and can contribute $50k+ per year based on income.

 

[Mario Kart]

Tomorrow I can upload the money to the account.

Go oil?

Go Apple?

Go Funds?

 

[Vincesanity]

Yes

Yes

Yes

 

[Gopher State]

Going split between apple and Royal Dutch. I really like apple, more apps coming for the watch, new Apple TV, and if they are making an electric car, look out

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Going split between apple and Royal Dutch. I really like apple, more apps coming for the watch, new Apple TV, and if they are making an electric car, look out

You know the expected financial outcome of all this #### is already baked into the price you are buying at - right?

 

[Mario Kart]

Funds are in the IRA as cash. Haven't put in any orders yet.

 

[skycriesmary]

I'm in the same boat, have 80% of my entire Roth account in cash at this point. Waiting for the dust to settle to distribute. Not sure when that's going to be in 2016. Only a week in, but we've been due for a correction for awhile...

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I'm in the same boat, have 80% of my entire Roth account in cash at this point. Waiting for the dust to settle to distribute. Not sure when that's going to be in 2016. Only a week in, but we've been due for a correction for awhile...

Are you thinking you can time the market? What newsletter are you reading? Can you pass along the good news?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm in the same boat, have 80% of my entire Roth account in cash at this point. Waiting for the dust to settle to distribute. Not sure when that's going to be in 2016. Only a week in, but we've been due for a correction for awhile...

Are you thinking you can time the market? What newsletter are you reading? Can you pass along the good news?

No reason to ever do this, dollar-cost-average 12, 18, 24, or 26 times a year into a balanced portfolio and forget it. If Warren Buffett and other financial geniuses tell us to not try and time the market, I'm listening to them. Any financial adviser, friend, stock broker, etc who tells you they can time the market is full of ####.

Being in volatile and down markets while you are still young is awesome, you can buy more!!!!

 

[ex-ghost]

I'm in the same boat, have 80% of my entire Roth account in cash at this point. Waiting for the dust to settle to distribute. Not sure when that's going to be in 2016. Only a week in, but we've been due for a correction for awhile...

Are you thinking you can time the market? What newsletter are you reading? Can you pass along the good news?

No reason to ever do this, dollar-cost-average 12, 18, 24, or 26 times a year into a balanced portfolio and forget it. If Warren Buffett and other financial geniuses tell us to not try and time the market, I'm listening to them. Any financial adviser, friend, stock broker, etc who tells you they can time the market is full of ####.

Being in volatile and down markets while you are still young is awesome, you can buy more!!!!

Can't agree more! I try to tell my younger friends/coworkers this, too. Down market when you are young is fantastic! Well, as long as it rebounds when you are ready to retire...

 

[skycriesmary]

I'm in the same boat, have 80% of my entire Roth account in cash at this point. Waiting for the dust to settle to distribute. Not sure when that's going to be in 2016. Only a week in, but we've been due for a correction for awhile...

Are you thinking you can time the market? What newsletter are you reading? Can you pass along the good news?

No reason to ever do this, dollar-cost-average 12, 18, 24, or 26 times a year into a balanced portfolio and forget it. If Warren Buffett and other financial geniuses tell us to not try and time the market, I'm listening to them. Any financial adviser, friend, stock broker, etc who tells you they can time the market is full of ####.

Being in volatile and down markets while you are still young is awesome, you can buy more!!!!

I hear what you're saying, and am admittedly snake bitten by the market. Young? No, early 40's. Blarg.

 

[Mario Kart]

I'm not trying to time the market at all but there is no reason to buy right now, at least today. If I put the order in tonight, that is an option or at least wait till the week is over. The only cash I have in there is the new contribution.

I'm looking at oil, Apple or just go with the Vanguard funds.

- oil seems good due to the dividends although overall price is worrisome in the short term if I go that route. Maybe wait a little more if oil is the play.

- Apple seems like a good buy but with the decrease of production, how much might that hurt the stock price? A good possibility I go this route though.

- Vanguard funds, they were both even or down a little last year but they are mostly dividend as well. Short term may be ugly but long term might be better to look at with this route.

A lot has happened in a few short weeks since I started this thread.

 

[eoMMan]

I'm not trying to time the market at all but there is no reason to buy right now, at least today. If I put the order in tonight, that is an option or at least wait till the week is over. The only cash I have in there is the new contribution.

I'm looking at oil, Apple or just go with the Vanguard funds.

- oil seems good due to the dividends although overall price is worrisome in the short term if I go that route. Maybe wait a little more if oil is the play.

- Apple seems like a good buy but with the decrease of production, how much might that hurt the stock price? A good possibility I go this route though.

- Vanguard funds, they were both even or down a little last year but they are mostly dividend as well. Short term may be ugly but long term might be better to look at with this route.

A lot has happened in a few short weeks since I started this thread.

Diversify. Don't put it all in Apple or oil related stocks.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm in the same boat, have 80% of my entire Roth account in cash at this point. Waiting for the dust to settle to distribute. Not sure when that's going to be in 2016. Only a week in, but we've been due for a correction for awhile...

Are you thinking you can time the market? What newsletter are you reading? Can you pass along the good news?

No reason to ever do this, dollar-cost-average 12, 18, 24, or 26 times a year into a balanced portfolio and forget it. If Warren Buffett and other financial geniuses tell us to not try and time the market, I'm listening to them. Any financial adviser, friend, stock broker, etc who tells you they can time the market is full of ####.

Being in volatile and down markets while you are still young is awesome, you can buy more!!!!

I hear what you're saying, and am admittedly snake bitten by the market. Young? No, early 40's. Blarg.

Anything under 50 is "young" IMO, young enough anyway.

 

[Mario Kart]

I'm not trying to time the market at all but there is no reason to buy right now, at least today. If I put the order in tonight, that is an option or at least wait till the week is over. The only cash I have in there is the new contribution.

I'm looking at oil, Apple or just go with the Vanguard funds.

- oil seems good due to the dividends although overall price is worrisome in the short term if I go that route. Maybe wait a little more if oil is the play.

- Apple seems like a good buy but with the decrease of production, how much might that hurt the stock price? A good possibility I go this route though.

- Vanguard funds, they were both even or down a little last year but they are mostly dividend as well. Short term may be ugly but long term might be better to look at with this route.

A lot has happened in a few short weeks since I started this thread.

Diversify. Don't put it all in Apple or oil related stocks.

Im already Vanguard and oil (2). Apple would be new, oil would be an addition and funds would be an addition. I'd split Apple and Vanguard. Curious times.

 

[bagger]

If you're in a vanguard fund you are probably over exposed to Apple to begin with.

 

[Vincesanity]

What is the appeal of Vanguard Funds?

 

[Mario Kart]

I'm not trying to find any market but is there any reason to think of any kind of rebound or sustained growth right now?

But, what is he crisis? Is China that screwed up right now?

 

[Binky The Doormat]

What is the appeal of Vanguard Funds?

Low, low fees!

 

[Vincesanity]

What is the appeal of Vanguard Funds?

Low, low fees!

So you would take low fees over a higher net return?

Which of these Large Growth Funds would you rather own....

Fund A) Expense 0.23%, 5 year return - 11.31%, 10 year return - 7.27%

Fund B) Expense 0.83%, 5 year return - 13.14%, 10 year return - 10.26%

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What is the appeal of Vanguard Funds?

Low, low fees!

So you would take low fees over a higher net return?

Which of these Large Growth Funds would you rather own....

Fund A) Expense 0.23%, 5 year return - 11.31%, 10 year return - 7.27%

Fund B) Expense 0.83%, 5 year return - 13.14%, 10 year return - 10.26%

Past performance does not guarantee future results. You always want to be in funds or investments (ETFs) with low operational costs. Vanguard has many funds that have outperformed the market and their competitors for 1, 2, 5, 10 and 30 years. They might not finish in the top 10%, but over time Vanguard and lower fee funds will be the better investment. Here is an example, there are many more. Index, keep fees down, rinse and repeat. I own one actively managed fund in my 401k or Roth, and that has a fairly reasonable expense ratio of .30. You start paying 1% or more in fees do the math on what you are losing in compounding over time, the number will shock you.

 

[skol asylum]

Dumb question. Where do you even see the fees? I have Fidelity 401k thru work. I can't seem to see them anywhere. Are they buried in valuation changes so you don't see them?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Dumb question. Where do you even see the fees? I have Fidelity 401k thru work. I can't seem to see them anywhere. Are they buried in valuation changes so you don't see them?

Go to the Fidelity website and type in the ticker code. Once you go to the page, check details on the right side of the page. In this case FEXPX has .77% Expense ratio. You should have at least have an investors link through your plan, if you don't know it then find it.

Watch for 12-1b fees, operational fees, expense ratio, and screw the little guy fees.

 

[skol asylum]

Dumb question. Where do you even see the fees? I have Fidelity 401k thru work. I can't seem to see them anywhere. Are they buried in valuation changes so you don't see them?

Go to the Fidelity website and type in the ticker code. Once you go to the page, check details on the right side of the page. In this case FEXPX has .77% Expense ratio. You should have at least have an investors link through your plan, if you don't know it then find it. Watch for 12-1b fees, operational fees, expense ratio, and screw the little guy fees.

Thanks. So when do the fees normally get charged? Only fees I recall paying are on short term held funds when Rebalancing or changing funds in my portfolio.

 

[skol asylum]

I guess I was right. Buried in the rate of return.

Expense ratio is a measure of what it costs to operate an investment, expressed as a percentage of its assets, as a dollar amount, or in basis points. These are costs the investor pays through a reduction in the investment's rate of return.

You'd think they would be required to break that out on statements.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I guess I was right. Buried in the rate of return.

Expense ratio is a measure of what it costs to operate an investment, expressed as a percentage of its assets, as a dollar amount, or in basis points. These are costs the investor pays through a reduction in the investment's rate of return.

You'd think they would be required to break that out on statements.

Yeah, it's better than it used to be but Fidelity guy isn't getting his lake house in Switzerland by being up front with you. There is a lot of litigation on 401k plans for a reason, skimming from the little guy is how millionaires are made.