iPad (1 Viewer)

[Chunky Soup]

Multi-tasking announced for OS4. Nice.

 

[Sammy3469]

OS 4.0 release will have Multitasking, Bluetooth keyboard

 

[LokiKx]

Cause Jobs/Apple doesn't call it a computer and rightfully so.

I agree that this is purely marketing.What exactly is a computer?

My uncle thinks a computer is something you log onto to surf porn sites and check email.

If the tablet can do the same thing, that's a computer too him.

Not everyone is going to be running some kind of CAD program where they need more functionality. A computer has different meanings to different people and if you think a TABLET and a laptop don't cross over as the same thing for a lot of people, you are mistaken.

On top of that, Apple is going to improve the functionality on these IPADs as new generations are released. They are going to get closer and closer to what your definition of "computer" is. Perhaps someday there won't be all that much difference at all.

Call it "marketing" if you will, but it is about managing consumer expectations. To call it a "computer" puts the focus on all the things it doesn't do, instead of keeping the focus on the things it does incredibly well (internet, games, music, movies... ect). Apple didn't design this to be a full-fledged computer. Tablet computers have been around for a decade and are a massive failure as a hardware platform. People don't want to work on them day in and day out. Apple easily could have dropped OS X into this form factor and made an Apple Tablet. From the beginning that wasn't their intention. Instead they created a "casual" device that doesn't do everything but does what it does better than anything like it.

How can you say incredibly well with only WIFI and no DVD player.. it's more limiting at this point. Now, get 3G with jailbreak capabilities then it becomes a much better toy. Apply products when jailbroken are much better which is funny if you think about it.

Also, reading outside on the thing is pretty tough. So that kinda makes the book portion flawed.

 

[Card Trader]

Multi-tasking announced for OS4. Nice.

Revolutionary!

 

[LokiKx]

How can you say incredibly well with only WIFI and no DVD player.. it's more limiting at this point. Now, get 3G with jailbreak capabilities then it becomes a much better toy. Apply products when jailbroken are much better which is funny if you think about it.

I think everyone knows that sometime soon, there will we zero need for DVD drives. Apple wants to be ahead of the curve, so they toss this device out there, which may limit capability right now, but possess something (or nothing in this case) that is inevitable.

Apple needs a DVD player if it's WIFI only. Must keep your IPad charged up if you are going to download off the web your movies. Part of the allure of the IPad is the portability but when you can't get on the internet unless you're in a wifi area and have to download large files you are handcuffed to the portability aspect of the product.How are you going to get anything new on your ipad while you are out and not in a wifi spot? At least with IPhone you can download anything off your data service.

Synch it with your PC.The DVD/Blue-Ray will not be going away soon so it's a valid question and point. I'm sure eventually there will be a dongle that allows you to connect a drive to it.

 

[LokiKx]

Imagine how many better things could have been done with the money that guy spent.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Multi-tasking announced for OS4. Nice.

Revolutionary!

Pretty sure you're the only one claiming it is. Just like C&P this is a feature that's taken far too long. That being said, looks like it's very well done.

 

[LokiKx]

I literally cannot remember the last time I used a DVD drive. Has to be years.

So how do you get all your video content?

 

[Card Trader]

Multi-tasking announced for OS4. Nice.

Revolutionary!

Pretty sure you're the only one claiming it is. Just like C&P this is a feature that's taken far too long. That being said, looks like it's very well done.

I'm sure it will be very well done...just like it is with Android. The question is WHY did it take so long?

 

[LokiKx]

It's like buying a 911 with a VW engine. Looks sweet but driving it you quickly realize that it's just not quick enough and wonder why can't it clock faster than 80.

Hrm... for all the whining from the "haters' it seems speed has never once been brought up. Part of the allure is the fact that he thing flies. No lag whatsover. Bad analogy.

Compared to what?

 

[The Commish]

Multi-tasking announced for OS4. Nice.

Revolutionary!

Pretty sure you're the only one claiming it is. Just like C&P this is a feature that's taken far too long. That being said, looks like it's very well done.

I'm sure it will be very well done...just like it is with Android. The question is WHY did it take so long?

They're using the MS approach on these things...it works...why screw with the model?

 

[LokiKx]

how does anyone like the battery on the thing

No personal experience yet, but Time magazine ran a review this week and the writer claimed the battery life exceeded Apple's 10 hour estimate. He ran his iPad for 11.5 hours straight, watching four full length movies (full screen), TV shows, internet... ect. So early report of one says it's doing pretty well on the battery side of things.

Ars ReviewIt really depends on how you use the device. Gaming and Video full brightness like everyone here runs them your going to get about 6-7hrs.

Dim and not much video actions you'll get the 10.

 

[KGB]

Sitting in the lounge at JFK airport rocking out on this thing and trying to show it off to everyone around me, and the whole time I'm thinking "Christ, they made this thing out of GLASS...should break any second."

 

[LokiKx]

My question was genuine. I have found zero useful information about this on the net. Was wondering if anyone here could help. Not really interested in all the fanboy/hater nonsense....goonsquad....perhaps you could help me out?

Are you asking about Apple solving the certificate issue? Honestly, I've been so busy I haven't been following that issue closely. I'll jump on google and do some reading. In the meantime, Apple is announcing/previewing iPhone OS 4.0 in a press conference this afternoon (today, 10 am PST). Perhaps this issue will be addressed in the new OS since iPad runs the same platform as iPhone.p.s. My tech knowledge is limited. I'll talk to my geeks here at work and see what they've heard as well.

Not sure how Apple's incorporated certs into their envs, but they usually don't have anything to do with the OS code specifically. It's a layer on top used for security, but Apple might have it integrated. If so, that's worse, but I can't imagine that would be the case. I was on google looking around because of our call volume yesterday and didn't find much of anything.

It's largely due to Mobile Safari. I know most will minimize it, and it won't affect many people because most sites are actually secure with certs signed by a known CA, but the lack of being able to verify them on a device that was designed for surfing the web seems to be a major oversight and they should have done some revision with Mobile Safari.PKI issues should have Apple's main focus after they straighten out the wi-fi.

iPhone got owned in under 20 seconds via browser in this years pwn2own contest.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

nothing like trying to google for some info on the ipad and getting a ton of results about ipods and ipaqs nice name Apple!

search results

 

[LokiKx]

I'm talking about how real people are using the device.

 

[California]

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/the_ipad

Can some owners confirm this part:

There’s one severe problem in Safari for iPad, though: memory crapping out. MobileSafari for iPhone has always allowed you to open up to eight pages at a time. It tries to keep them all truly open, in RAM, so that you can quickly switch between them. But when it runs out of memory it starts flushing some of the pages. It doesn’t forget the URLs for those pages, and, in recent versions, it saves a static thumbnail image of the rendered page, but when you switch back to those purged pages, MobileSafari must reload the page — thus, you must wait both for the contents of the page to download and for the page to actually render (which — the rendering — often takes longer than the downloading). It’s very noticeable. Switching between unpurged Safari pages is instantaneous. Switching to a purged page takes as long as opening it from scratch.

Wolf Rentzsch, linking to this complaint from Peter-Paul Koch, wrote a brief technical overview of why Apple might have designed MobileSafari this way. (Keep in mind that iPhone OS does not use virtual memory; thus RAM is severely constrained.)

This purging problem got a lot better with the iPhone 3GS. The original iPhone and iPhone 3G only had 128 MB of RAM. The 3GS has 256. MobileSafari’s ability to keep more pages in memory is probably my single favorite aspect of the 3GS.

The iPad also has 256 MB of RAM. But, in my use, iPad’s Safari isn’t able to keep nearly as many pages open as I can on my 3GS. In fact, sometimes it seems I can only have one, and every page I switch to gets completely reloaded. This is more than just annoying — it can lead to data loss if you have unsubmitted form data sitting in an “open” iPad Safari page. I’ve run into this posting items to DF from the iPad — my posting interface is a web page form. When I want to link to the current page, I invoke a bookmarklet which opens a new page with the title and URL fields of the posting form set to the title and URL of the page from which I invoked the bookmarklet. Often, though, I want to switch back to the page I’m linking to copy another URL or a bit of text to quote. Twice so far, when going back to the posting form, it’s been purged and must reload from scratch — in which case I lose anything I’ve already written. I never run into this problem on my iPhone 3GS when switching between just two open Safari pages.

The problem is also severe for AJAX web apps, which tend not to be designed with full page refreshes in mind.

I hope this can be improved significantly in an iPad software update, but I worry that it’s endemic — that because the iPad screen is so much larger than the iPhone’s, that MobileSafari must allocate significantly more memory per page for the framebuffers. 256 MB of RAM simply may not be enough for MobileSafari to keep more than two or three pages in memory. If so, Apple really needs to consider some sort of caching or serialization scheme rather than completely flushing away purged pages.

I'll check this out myself when I visit my parents next week.

 

[LokiKx]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

 

[GloryDaze]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

You're a Mac and the iPad was your idea.

 

[Chunky Soup]

I'm talking about how real people are using the device.

You're talking about full brightness? You really have no idea what you're talking about. The factory default 50% looks beautiful. I wouldn't want to increase it.The battery life is simply unreal on this thing. Getting 12 hours or so on the web out of the box is just silly.

 

[LokiKx]

450,00 sold. Numbers are off what the analysts had at 571,000 or so.

 

[Card Trader]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

 

[LokiKx]

I'm talking about how real people are using the device.

You're talking about full brightness? You really have no idea what you're talking about. The factory default 50% looks beautiful. I wouldn't want to increase it.The battery life is simply unreal on this thing. Getting 12 hours or so on the web out of the box is just silly.

Really, I have three co-workers with the iPad and we've put it through the paces and that's how they PREFER it. Funny you think your opinion is the only one that matters. Then saying someone doesn't know what they are talking about.Then again your the same one that suggested I was just bashing when I stated that. Then I pointed to the Ars review and you let it go.

 

[LokiKx]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Card Trader]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Was just talking to a coworker about this. Now that they can do multi tasking and have folders and can search txt msgs they will put them in their commercials and make it seem as if they came up with these ideas on a mobile device. It's almost like they are looking at Android and trying to take as many features as possible.

 

[LokiKx]

10 Ads per day on a device I paid for on Apps I paid for. Nice Apple.

 

[maxwelledison]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Are you people like this every day?

 

[LokiKx]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Was just talking to a coworker about this. Now that they can do multi tasking and have folders and can search txt msgs they will put them in their commercials and make it seem as if they came up with these ideas on a mobile device. It's almost like they are looking at Android and trying to take as many features as possible.

Apple is good at that. What's really funny is it still isn't full multi-tasking. There taking the approach MS did with the new 7 series phone. The best Multi-tasking system I've seen son far is WebOS. Very well implemented.

 

[Chunky Soup]

I'm talking about how real people are using the device.

You're talking about full brightness? You really have no idea what you're talking about. The factory default 50% looks beautiful. I wouldn't want to increase it.The battery life is simply unreal on this thing. Getting 12 hours or so on the web out of the box is just silly.

Really, I have three co-workers with the iPad and we've put it through the paces and that's how they PREFER it. Funny you think your opinion is the only one that matters. Then saying someone doesn't know what they are talking about.Then again your the same one that suggested I was just bashing when I stated that. Then I pointed to the Ars review and you let it go.

Ars says nothing about everyone puts it on full brightness. In fact, they say "if you're one of those full brightness freaks". Have you seen this thing on the factory default? No need to change it. I keep mine where it is because it looks perfect and I can enjoy the ridiculous battery life. Of course, even on full brightness the battery life is crazy.I don't see why you're so hung up on this.

 

[Jason Bourne]

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/the_ipad

Can some owners confirm this part:

There’s one severe problem in Safari for iPad, though: memory crapping out. MobileSafari for iPhone has always allowed you to open up to eight pages at a time. It tries to keep them all truly open, in RAM, so that you can quickly switch between them. But when it runs out of memory it starts flushing some of the pages. It doesn’t forget the URLs for those pages, and, in recent versions, it saves a static thumbnail image of the rendered page, but when you switch back to those purged pages, MobileSafari must reload the page — thus, you must wait both for the contents of the page to download and for the page to actually render (which — the rendering — often takes longer than the downloading). It’s very noticeable. Switching between unpurged Safari pages is instantaneous. Switching to a purged page takes as long as opening it from scratch.

Wolf Rentzsch, linking to this complaint from Peter-Paul Koch, wrote a brief technical overview of why Apple might have designed MobileSafari this way. (Keep in mind that iPhone OS does not use virtual memory; thus RAM is severely constrained.)

This purging problem got a lot better with the iPhone 3GS. The original iPhone and iPhone 3G only had 128 MB of RAM. The 3GS has 256. MobileSafari’s ability to keep more pages in memory is probably my single favorite aspect of the 3GS.

The iPad also has 256 MB of RAM. But, in my use, iPad’s Safari isn’t able to keep nearly as many pages open as I can on my 3GS. In fact, sometimes it seems I can only have one, and every page I switch to gets completely reloaded. This is more than just annoying — it can lead to data loss if you have unsubmitted form data sitting in an “open” iPad Safari page. I’ve run into this posting items to DF from the iPad — my posting interface is a web page form. When I want to link to the current page, I invoke a bookmarklet which opens a new page with the title and URL fields of the posting form set to the title and URL of the page from which I invoked the bookmarklet. Often, though, I want to switch back to the page I’m linking to copy another URL or a bit of text to quote. Twice so far, when going back to the posting form, it’s been purged and must reload from scratch — in which case I lose anything I’ve already written. I never run into this problem on my iPhone 3GS when switching between just two open Safari pages.

The problem is also severe for AJAX web apps, which tend not to be designed with full page refreshes in mind.

I hope this can be improved significantly in an iPad software update, but I worry that it’s endemic — that because the iPad screen is so much larger than the iPhone’s, that MobileSafari must allocate significantly more memory per page for the framebuffers. 256 MB of RAM simply may not be enough for MobileSafari to keep more than two or three pages in memory. If so, Apple really needs to consider some sort of caching or serialization scheme rather than completely flushing away purged pages.

I'll check this out myself when I visit my parents next week.

I think this is correct - I have noticed when I go to open a previously opened page - it shows live shots of those pages, but some are "greyed" out, but will re-populate after a few seconds. So I assume the browser dropped those, and picked them back up when I went to re-load.

I am not sure I see this is a big issue - since I never really considered this to be tabbed browsing - more like a cache.

 

[Chunky Soup]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Can't we find you your own special forum?

 

[LokiKx]

I'm talking about how real people are using the device.

You're talking about full brightness? You really have no idea what you're talking about. The factory default 50% looks beautiful. I wouldn't want to increase it.The battery life is simply unreal on this thing. Getting 12 hours or so on the web out of the box is just silly.

Really, I have three co-workers with the iPad and we've put it through the paces and that's how they PREFER it. Funny you think your opinion is the only one that matters. Then saying someone doesn't know what they are talking about.Then again your the same one that suggested I was just bashing when I stated that. Then I pointed to the Ars review and you let it go.

Ars says nothing about everyone puts it on full brightness. In fact, they say "if you're one of those full brightness freaks". Have you seen this thing on the factory default? No need to change it. I keep mine where it is because it looks perfect and I can enjoy the ridiculous battery life. Of course, even on full brightness the battery life is crazy.I don't see why you're so hung up on this.

Not hung up on it. That's how all three PREFER to use it and the results they get with it. yes I've seen it from minimum to full. I prefer it at about 65% my self. tThen again I haven't been taking it around with me everywhere. I play with it in the office and one time outside to check the ereader out in sunlight which did require it to be cranked up.I run most of my devices at about 70-75% but that's me. If you are happy at 50% then fine. If you prefer not to play 3d games or movies all the time fine. But why criticize me when I'm simply pointing out actual uses and performance data I have experienced?

 

[culdeus]

how does anyone like the battery on the thing

I guess it's alright if you like 9-11 hours of life out of your touchscreen media devices. Me, I'm a big fan of these impending 4-5 hour life-spans these win7 devices are promising. PLUS as an added bonus, after an hour or two of use you can flip em over and cook breakfast on the backside. (just pokin fun guys...relax )

I can say this. The ipad has the best non military battery pack money can buy. Please by 2 of these my kids gotta eat. If people do get some first hand results please send me a PM. I'm always curious to see if simulations and things bear out. Also want to know how fast you are seeing charging times, among other things. tia

 

[culdeus]

I literally cannot remember the last time I used a DVD drive. Has to be years.

So how do you get all your video content?

Apple TV. Duh.

 

[LokiKx]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Can't we find you your own special forum?

It is funny. I was told a folder/stack type system was not needed. In my experience it was. I was once again labeled a basher by people like you who are closed minded. So why would I need a forum because I'm opinionated but willing to discuss and show facts about things. Seems like the ones who need a new forum are the ones who just blindly bash with out actually bringing any information to the table.Fact is Apple agreed with me on the need and updated the GUI to add it. It's a step forward.

 

[Walton Goggins]

I literally cannot remember the last time I used a DVD drive. Has to be years.

Wait until you have kids

 

[California]

how does anyone like the battery on the thing

I guess it's alright if you like 9-11 hours of life out of your touchscreen media devices. Me, I'm a big fan of these impending 4-5 hour life-spans these win7 devices are promising. PLUS as an added bonus, after an hour or two of use you can flip em over and cook breakfast on the backside.

(just pokin fun guys...relax )

I can say this. The ipad has the best non military battery pack money can buy. Please by 2 of these my kids gotta eat. If people do get some first hand results please send me a PM. I'm always curious to see if simulations and things bear out. Also want to know how fast you are seeing charging times, among other things. tia

The ipad has phenomenal battery life and I don't think anyone can make a legit argument that it's bad.http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-Teardown/2183/2

Look at the big black things in Step 10 and 11. It has two batteries for ~6600 mah total. The ipad is basically a 10" screen, some electronics, and two giant batteries. Your typical smartphone battery has ~1,000 to 1,300 mah.

Reviews I've read says it takes around 4 hours total to charge from dead back to full. This is from the wall charger. Depending on your computer, it may take days or be impossible to charge via usb.

 

[Chunky Soup]

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Can't we find you your own special forum?

It is funny. I was told a folder/stack type system was not needed. In my experience it was. I was once again labeled a basher by people like you who are closed minded. So why would I need a forum because I'm opinionated but willing to discuss and show facts about things. Seems like the ones who need a new forum are the ones who just blindly bash with out actually bringing any information to the table.Fact is Apple agreed with me on the need and updated the GUI to add it. It's a step forward.

Send Steve Jobs your resume ASAP.

 

[Walton Goggins]

how does anyone like the battery on the thing

Anyone who complains about battery life shouldn't get an Apple product since you know that going in.

 

[the moops]

The biggest gripe people had with the iphone was its lack of multitasking. Apple corrects that, and now you resort to "how innovative!" and "android had it all along!". Childish.

 

[LokiKx]

Send Steve Jobs your resume ASAP.

Awesome another post that means nothing. See I can do it to.

 

[[icon]]

It's like buying a 911 with a VW engine. Looks sweet but driving it you quickly realize that it's just not quick enough and wonder why can't it clock faster than 80.

Hrm... for all the whining from the "haters' it seems speed has never once been brought up. Part of the allure is the fact that he thing flies. No lag whatsover. Bad analogy.

Compared to what?

The previous portable HP Touchscreen efforts. Try to keep up with the context.

 

[Chunky Soup]

The biggest gripe people had with the iphone was its lack of multitasking. Apple corrects that, and now you resort to "how innovative!" and "android had it all along!". Childish.

Pretty sad.

 

[LokiKx]

how does anyone like the battery on the thing

I guess it's alright if you like 9-11 hours of life out of your touchscreen media devices. Me, I'm a big fan of these impending 4-5 hour life-spans these win7 devices are promising. PLUS as an added bonus, after an hour or two of use you can flip em over and cook breakfast on the backside.

(just pokin fun guys...relax )

I can say this. The ipad has the best non military battery pack money can buy. Please by 2 of these my kids gotta eat. If people do get some first hand results please send me a PM. I'm always curious to see if simulations and things bear out. Also want to know how fast you are seeing charging times, among other things. tia

The ipad has phenomenal battery life and I don't think anyone can make a legit argument that it's bad.http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-Teardown/2183/2

Look at the big black things in Step 10 and 11. It has two batteries for ~6600 mah total. The ipad is basically a 10" screen, some electronics, and two giant batteries. Your typical smartphone battery has ~1,000 to 1,300 mah.

Reviews I've read says it takes around 4 hours total to charge from dead back to full. This is from the wall charger. Depending on your computer, it may take days or be impossible to charge via usb.

I don't think anyone is. I know I've posted the numbers I've seen and what the load was. I also posted links to tech reviews.

 

[[icon]]

Fact is Apple agreed with me on the need and updated the GUI to add it. It's a step forward.

Send Steve Jobs your resume ASAP.

 

[Card Trader]

The biggest gripe people had with the iphone was its lack of multitasking. Apple corrects that, and now you resort to "how innovative!" and "android had it all along!". Childish.

The funny thing is when Android first came out all the iPhone jockers talked about how pretty the iPhone was compared to the G1...now that there are great looking Android phones out the iPhone jocks are doing the same thing.

 

[LokiKx]

It's like buying a 911 with a VW engine. Looks sweet but driving it you quickly realize that it's just not quick enough and wonder why can't it clock faster than 80.

Hrm... for all the whining from the "haters' it seems speed has never once been brought up. Part of the allure is the fact that he thing flies. No lag whatsover. Bad analogy.

Compared to what?

The previous portable HP Touchscreen efforts. Try to keep up with the context.

Yeah I have to admit I got sleepy during all the 911 stuff.

 

[the moops]

The biggest gripe people had with the iphone was its lack of multitasking. Apple corrects that, and now you resort to "how innovative!" and "android had it all along!". Childish.

The funny thing is when Android first came out all the iPhone jockers talked about how pretty the iPhone was compared to the G1...now that there are great looking Android phones out the iPhone jocks are doing the same thing.

Your posts make me appreciate jim11.

 

[The Commish]

Fact is Apple agreed with me on the need and updated the GUI to add it. It's a step forward.

Send Steve Jobs your resume ASAP.

Please don't encourage them.

 

[goonsquad]

Hey look it just got folders like I wanted and was put down for. Guess Apple was on the same page as me.

Android has had this since day 1

I know. I was told on the wonder Apple GUI it wasn't needed and I was pretty much bashing it for no reason. I find it very funny now that Apple has actually made it a feature. It'll be innovative now!!!!!!!!!!

Can't we find you your own special forum?

It is funny. I was told a folder/stack type system was not needed. In my experience it was. I was once again labeled a basher by people like you who are closed minded. So why would I need a forum because I'm opinionated but willing to discuss and show facts about things. Seems like the ones who need a new forum are the ones who just blindly bash with out actually bringing any information to the table.Fact is Apple agreed with me on the need and updated the GUI to add it. It's a step forward.

Sounds like you're the one bashing here. iPhone didn't need the Folders a few years ago. I have a feeling the monumental popularity of the App Store (from # of developers to # of apps downloaded) caught them by surprise. Just like they never envisioned the iPhone as a gaming platform in the beginning. iPhone owners are downloading hundreds of apps. So Apple evolved the UI to support this.