The Commish
Footballguy
You're just fishing all over the place today aren't ya cstu?? 
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Iran -- Deal Reached! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter higgins
- Start date
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
No he's a true believer.You're just fishing all over the place today aren't ya cstu??
Short Corner
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
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RBM
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
This Politico article gives a pretty good behind-the-scenes look at the Iran negotiations. It's long but I came away with a much better understanding of how this sort of international diplomacy works.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Obama will be the only person sticking to Iran deal
By Amir Taheri
October 11, 2015 | 7:21am
Iran reportedly test fires long-range ballistic missile
Oops: Turns out the Iran deal breaks the law
Sometime this week, President Obama is scheduled to sign an executive order to meet the Oct. 15 “adoption day” he has set for the nuclear deal he says he has made with Iran. According to the president’s timetable the next step would be “the start day of implementation,” fixed for Dec. 15.
But as things now stand, Obama may end up being the only person in the world to sign his much-wanted deal, in effect making a treaty with himself.
The Iranians have signed nothing and have no plans for doing so. The so-called Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) has not even been discussed at the Islamic Republic’s Council of Ministers. Nor has the Tehran government bothered to even provide an official Persian translation of the 159-page text.
The Islamic Majlis, the ersatz parliament, is examining an unofficial text and is due to express its views at an unspecified date in a document “running into more than 1,000 pages,” according to Mohsen Zakani, who heads the “examining committee.”
“The changes we seek would require substantial rewriting of the text,” he adds enigmatically.
Nor have Britain, China, Germany, France and Russia, who were involved in the so-called P5+1 talks that produced the JCPOA, deemed it necessary to provide the Obama “deal” with any legal basis of their own. Obama’s partners have simply decided that the deal he is promoting is really about lifting sanctions against Iran and nothing else.
So they have started doing just that without bothering about JCPOA’s other provisions. Britain has lifted the ban on 22 Iranian banks and companies blacklisted because of alleged involvement in deals linked to the nuclear issue.
German trade with Iran has risen by 33 percent, making it the Islamic Republic’s third-largest partner after China.
China has signed preliminary accords to help Iran build five more nuclear reactors. Russia has started delivering S300 anti-aircraft missile systems and is engaged in talks to sell Sukhoi planes to the Islamic Republic.
France has sent its foreign minister and a 100-man delegation to negotiate big business deals, including projects to double Iran’s crude oil exports.
Other nations have also interpreted JCPOA as a green light for dropping sanctions. Indian trade with Iran has risen by 17 percent, and New Delhi is negotiating massive investment in a rail-and-sea hub in the Iranian port of Chah-Bahar on the Gulf of Oman. With help from Austrian, Turkish and United Arab Emirates banks, the many banking restrictions imposed on Iran because of its nuclear program have been pushed aside.
“The structures of sanctions built over decades is crumbling,” boasts Iranian President Hassan Rouhani.
Meanwhile, the nuclear project is and shall remain “fully intact,” says the head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Agency, Ali Akbar Salehi.
“We have started working on a process of nuclear fusion that will be cutting-edge technology for the next 50 years,” he adds.
Even before Obama’s “implementation day,” the mullahs are receiving an average of $400 million a month, no big sum, but enough to ease the regime’s cash-flow problems and increase pay for its repressive forces by around 21 percent.
Last month, Iran and the P5+1 created a joint commission to establish the modalities of implementation of an accord, a process they wish to complete by December 2017 when the first two-year review of JCPOA is scheduled to take place and when Obama will no longer be in the White House. (If things go awry Obama could always blame his successor or even George W Bush.)
Both Obama and his Secretary of State John Kerry have often claimed that, its obvious shortcomings notwithstanding, their nuke deal with the “moderate faction” in Tehran might encourage positive changes in Iran’s behavior.
That hasn’t happened.
The mullahs see the “deal” as a means with which Obama would oppose any suggestion of trying to curb Iran.
“Obama won’t do anything that might jeopardize the deal,” says Ziba Kalam, a Rouhani adviser. “This is his biggest, if not the only, foreign policy success.”
If there have been changes in Tehran’s behavior they have been for the worst. Iran has teamed up with Russia to keep Bashar al-Assad in power in Syria, mocking Obama’s “Assad must go” rhetoric. More importantly, Iran has built its direct military presence in Syria to 7,000 men. (One of Iran’s most senior generals was killed in Aleppo on Wednesday.)
Tehran has also pressured Iraqi Premier Haidar al-Abadi’s weak government to distance itself from Washington and join a dubious coalition with Iran, Russia and Syria.
Certain that Obama is paralyzed by his fear of undermining the non-existent “deal” the mullahs have intensified their backing for Houthi rebels in Yemen. Last week a delegation was in Tehran with a long shopping list for arms.
In Lebanon, the mullahs have toughened their stance on choosing the country’s next president. And in Bahrain, Tehran is working on a plan to “ensure an early victory” of the Shiite revolution in the archipelago.
Confident that Obama is determined to abandon traditional allies of the United States, Tehran has also heightened propaganda war against Saudi Arabia, now openly calling for the overthrow of the monarchy there.
The mullahs are also heightening contacts with Palestinian groups in the hope of unleashing a new “Intifada.”
“Palestine is thirsty for a third Intifada,” Supreme Guide Khamenei’s mouthpiece Kayhan said in an editorial last Thursday. “It is the duty of every Muslim to help start it as soon as possible.”
Obama’s hopes of engaging Iran on other issues were dashed last week when Khamenei declared “any dialogue with the American Great Satan” to be” forbidden.”
“We have no need of America” his adviser Ali-Akbar Velayati added later. “Iran is the region’s big power in its own right.”
Obama had hoped that by sucking up to the mullahs he would at least persuade them to moderate their “hate-America campaign.” Not a bit of that.
“Death to America” slogans, adoring official buildings in Tehran have been painted afresh along with US flags, painted at the entrance of offices so that they could be trampled underfoot. None of the US citizens still held hostages in Iran has been released, and one, Washington Post stringer Jason Rezai, is branded as “head of a spy ring “in Tehran. Paralyzed by his fear of undermining the non-existent deal, Obama doesn’t even call for their release.
Government-sponsored anti-American nationwide events are announced for November, anniversary of the seizure of the US Embassy in Tehran. The annual “End of America” week-long conference is planned for February and is to focus on “African-American victims of US police” and the possibility of “self-determination for blacks.”
According to official sources “families of Black American victims” and a number of “black American revolutionaries” have been invited.
Inside Iran, Obama’s “moderate partners” have doubled the number of executions and political prisoners. Last week they crushed marches by teachers calling for release of their leaders. Hundreds of trade unionists have been arrested and a new “anti-insurrection” brigade paraded in Tehran to terrorize possible protestors.
The Obama deal may end up as the biggest diplomatic scam in recent history.
By Amir Taheri
October 11, 2015 | 7:21am
Iran reportedly test fires long-range ballistic missile
Oops: Turns out the Iran deal breaks the law
Sometime this week, President Obama is scheduled to sign an executive order to meet the Oct. 15 “adoption day” he has set for the nuclear deal he says he has made with Iran. According to the president’s timetable the next step would be “the start day of implementation,” fixed for Dec. 15.
But as things now stand, Obama may end up being the only person in the world to sign his much-wanted deal, in effect making a treaty with himself.
The Iranians have signed nothing and have no plans for doing so. The so-called Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) has not even been discussed at the Islamic Republic’s Council of Ministers. Nor has the Tehran government bothered to even provide an official Persian translation of the 159-page text.
The Islamic Majlis, the ersatz parliament, is examining an unofficial text and is due to express its views at an unspecified date in a document “running into more than 1,000 pages,” according to Mohsen Zakani, who heads the “examining committee.”
“The changes we seek would require substantial rewriting of the text,” he adds enigmatically.
Nor have Britain, China, Germany, France and Russia, who were involved in the so-called P5+1 talks that produced the JCPOA, deemed it necessary to provide the Obama “deal” with any legal basis of their own. Obama’s partners have simply decided that the deal he is promoting is really about lifting sanctions against Iran and nothing else.
So they have started doing just that without bothering about JCPOA’s other provisions. Britain has lifted the ban on 22 Iranian banks and companies blacklisted because of alleged involvement in deals linked to the nuclear issue.
German trade with Iran has risen by 33 percent, making it the Islamic Republic’s third-largest partner after China.
China has signed preliminary accords to help Iran build five more nuclear reactors. Russia has started delivering S300 anti-aircraft missile systems and is engaged in talks to sell Sukhoi planes to the Islamic Republic.
France has sent its foreign minister and a 100-man delegation to negotiate big business deals, including projects to double Iran’s crude oil exports.
Other nations have also interpreted JCPOA as a green light for dropping sanctions. Indian trade with Iran has risen by 17 percent, and New Delhi is negotiating massive investment in a rail-and-sea hub in the Iranian port of Chah-Bahar on the Gulf of Oman. With help from Austrian, Turkish and United Arab Emirates banks, the many banking restrictions imposed on Iran because of its nuclear program have been pushed aside.
“The structures of sanctions built over decades is crumbling,” boasts Iranian President Hassan Rouhani.
Meanwhile, the nuclear project is and shall remain “fully intact,” says the head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Agency, Ali Akbar Salehi.
“We have started working on a process of nuclear fusion that will be cutting-edge technology for the next 50 years,” he adds.
Even before Obama’s “implementation day,” the mullahs are receiving an average of $400 million a month, no big sum, but enough to ease the regime’s cash-flow problems and increase pay for its repressive forces by around 21 percent.
Last month, Iran and the P5+1 created a joint commission to establish the modalities of implementation of an accord, a process they wish to complete by December 2017 when the first two-year review of JCPOA is scheduled to take place and when Obama will no longer be in the White House. (If things go awry Obama could always blame his successor or even George W Bush.)
Both Obama and his Secretary of State John Kerry have often claimed that, its obvious shortcomings notwithstanding, their nuke deal with the “moderate faction” in Tehran might encourage positive changes in Iran’s behavior.
That hasn’t happened.
The mullahs see the “deal” as a means with which Obama would oppose any suggestion of trying to curb Iran.
“Obama won’t do anything that might jeopardize the deal,” says Ziba Kalam, a Rouhani adviser. “This is his biggest, if not the only, foreign policy success.”
If there have been changes in Tehran’s behavior they have been for the worst. Iran has teamed up with Russia to keep Bashar al-Assad in power in Syria, mocking Obama’s “Assad must go” rhetoric. More importantly, Iran has built its direct military presence in Syria to 7,000 men. (One of Iran’s most senior generals was killed in Aleppo on Wednesday.)
Tehran has also pressured Iraqi Premier Haidar al-Abadi’s weak government to distance itself from Washington and join a dubious coalition with Iran, Russia and Syria.
Certain that Obama is paralyzed by his fear of undermining the non-existent “deal” the mullahs have intensified their backing for Houthi rebels in Yemen. Last week a delegation was in Tehran with a long shopping list for arms.
In Lebanon, the mullahs have toughened their stance on choosing the country’s next president. And in Bahrain, Tehran is working on a plan to “ensure an early victory” of the Shiite revolution in the archipelago.
Confident that Obama is determined to abandon traditional allies of the United States, Tehran has also heightened propaganda war against Saudi Arabia, now openly calling for the overthrow of the monarchy there.
The mullahs are also heightening contacts with Palestinian groups in the hope of unleashing a new “Intifada.”
“Palestine is thirsty for a third Intifada,” Supreme Guide Khamenei’s mouthpiece Kayhan said in an editorial last Thursday. “It is the duty of every Muslim to help start it as soon as possible.”
Obama’s hopes of engaging Iran on other issues were dashed last week when Khamenei declared “any dialogue with the American Great Satan” to be” forbidden.”
“We have no need of America” his adviser Ali-Akbar Velayati added later. “Iran is the region’s big power in its own right.”
Obama had hoped that by sucking up to the mullahs he would at least persuade them to moderate their “hate-America campaign.” Not a bit of that.
“Death to America” slogans, adoring official buildings in Tehran have been painted afresh along with US flags, painted at the entrance of offices so that they could be trampled underfoot. None of the US citizens still held hostages in Iran has been released, and one, Washington Post stringer Jason Rezai, is branded as “head of a spy ring “in Tehran. Paralyzed by his fear of undermining the non-existent deal, Obama doesn’t even call for their release.
Government-sponsored anti-American nationwide events are announced for November, anniversary of the seizure of the US Embassy in Tehran. The annual “End of America” week-long conference is planned for February and is to focus on “African-American victims of US police” and the possibility of “self-determination for blacks.”
According to official sources “families of Black American victims” and a number of “black American revolutionaries” have been invited.
Inside Iran, Obama’s “moderate partners” have doubled the number of executions and political prisoners. Last week they crushed marches by teachers calling for release of their leaders. Hundreds of trade unionists have been arrested and a new “anti-insurrection” brigade paraded in Tehran to terrorize possible protestors.
The Obama deal may end up as the biggest diplomatic scam in recent history.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just keeping track, since the deal we have seen Iran do the following:
- Ramp up military support in Syria.
- Coordinate militarily with Russia.
- Tee up show trials of Americans. The WaPo reporter just got 20 years for going to visit his family.
- Test launch a long range missile.
- Bar UN inspectors from one of its sites, insisting, apparently correctly according to the deal, that they are allowed to prepare their own samples.
- Ramp up military support in Syria.
- Coordinate militarily with Russia.
- Tee up show trials of Americans. The WaPo reporter just got 20 years for going to visit his family.
- Test launch a long range missile.
- Bar UN inspectors from one of its sites, insisting, apparently correctly according to the deal, that they are allowed to prepare their own samples.
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Sand
Footballguy
The President spoke strongly in response to these international happenings to Steve Croft - so don't worry, we are, after all, the world's leader in climate change.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
What's really weird is that claim that the Iranians have no plans to actually sign the deal. That would be a total farce if we end up signing this thing and abiding by it and Iran never even signs it.
Hang 10
Footballguy
What's bad is that appears that sanctions are being lifted without the signed deal. So what would be motivating Iran to put pen to paper?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
timschochet
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Which part is funnier, that the Iranian Parliament signed it or that they will actually implement anything?
Hang 10
Footballguy
Doesn't sound like that's the same thing as a officially signed deal. From the NY post article sounds like Iranians need more than just approval from the parliament.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The Parliament doesn't actually run the country:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/world/middleeast/irans-parliament-backs-details-of-nuclear-deal.html?_r=0
Now that will probably go through but still it hasn't been passed yet.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't think I have to summarize everything that has been going on.
Iran keeps changing the rules on inspections even as the US complies.
The Congress was not privy to all details of the deal.
Iran fires missiles within 1500 yards of US Navy ships.
Iran threatens to expand ICBM program.
Iran forces US to drop NEW sanctions even as old ones are being dropped.
And now today Iran seizes US sailors on the day of the SOTU and tells our president to go pound sand.
How awesome is this deal, let's hear it.
Iran keeps changing the rules on inspections even as the US complies.
The Congress was not privy to all details of the deal.
Iran fires missiles within 1500 yards of US Navy ships.
Iran threatens to expand ICBM program.
Iran forces US to drop NEW sanctions even as old ones are being dropped.
And now today Iran seizes US sailors on the day of the SOTU and tells our president to go pound sand.
How awesome is this deal, let's hear it.
timschochet
Footballguy
The boats that were seized was by error when they drifted into Iranian waters. They're being released. Per the State Department, they're going to be released sooner because of our new relations with Iran. In the past, there would have been interminable delays, perhaps weeks.
You also forgot to mention in your little narrative that Iran has turned over all of its nuclear material to Russia. That was the most vital part of the agreement and Iran has lived up to it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/world/middleeast/iran-hands-over-stockpile-of-enriched-uranium-to-russia.html?_r=0
You seem to always want to paint a negative outlook on everything that Obama or Hillary has done with regard to the Middle East. Sometimes, in specific instances, I agree with you. But in this case the evidence is pretty clear that this, at least so far, was a good agreement. I think it bodes very well for the future.
The Commish
Footballguy
I have paid no attention to this. We have enough #### here we should be worried about. I don't really care what's going on in Iran. Our President won't do anything about it anyway. I remember reading the deal when it was passed and reserving judgment on the thing as a whole until the point where Iran gave us the finger. If I am reading correctly, they are indeed giving us the finger now? Ok Obama....do your thing 
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Does Obama bring this up at all tonight?
timschochet
Footballguy
So is our State Department lying when they say they have already negotiated a release?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm guessing red pencils are drawing through lines right about at this moment...
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tim, why do you have to do that?
No.
Iran makes its mind up as it goes, State can be talking to people who have no interest in telling truth and even if they do have absolutely no control over or involvement in events.
poopdawg
Footballguy
Care to address the other 5 points and that your response to the sixth is getting more wrong by the second??
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
- Erdbrink is the Tehran bureau chief for the NY Times.
- Btw, Iran may release our sailors, but only after: waiting, maybe 24-48 hours (instead of now), claiming they were arrested, accusing them of spying, and calling them prisoners.
poopdawg
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Well, obviously I hope I'm right. I want to see them released quickly. If I'm wrong, then I there will have to be consequences.poopdawg said:
The other points were addressed by the fact that the agreement stipulated that Iran turn over its stockpile of enriched uranium. This, they did. That was the key element which we were demanding, and which several conservatives predicted that they would never do. And it's already done. The purpose of the agreement was not for us to love Iran, or vice versa. It was SOLELY to prevent them from obtaining nuclear weapons. Based on that standard, it's already a successful deal. Hopefully it will lead to more successes, but we'll see.
poopdawg
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
poopdawg
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
http://www.iranwatch.org/iranian-entities/rear-admiral-ali-fadavi
- This is the guy calling the shots. Not the diplomats who like to travel to Switzerland that Kerry talks to.
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
This should be good.
- Nope!
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
If you like your nuclear weapons program, you can keep your nuclear weapons program.
It was in the deal that we needed to pass before we could find out what was in it, people.
It was in the deal that we needed to pass before we could find out what was in it, people.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
- Gosh, that's surprising.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Not really "promptly.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
If Iranian soldiers were found in American waters, would we release them right away?
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
If Rouhani was addressing the nation that night would he mention it?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Supposedly this is where the US ship was actually captured:
http://imgur.com/tnf9rmH
Those are international waters.
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