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Iran nuclear capacity (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter stlrams
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timschochet
Footballguy
Send a secret mission of Top Gun pilots to take them out.
rockaction
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
From a media optics standpoint? If I was running black bag on this, I'd take all the seized fentanyl in America, taking from drug busts, then distribute it for free in Iran.
Then I'd start a processing facility in Azerbaijan. Make as much industrial grade fentanyl possible. Keep pumping it into Iran.
The expectation is that the US will go after critical HVTs in the nuclear development process. So don't meet that expectation. Flood the country with enough drugs to choke them out internally. Soak them in fentanyl.
Create false flag attacks between China and Iran's trade relationship on the seas. Priority tasking to neutralize Bandar Abbas by using small unit cells to take out critical infrastructure there.
Repackage new development into a proxy for the old Japanese Type 89 knee mortar. Use them a single man hit and run attacks on military assets in Iran. Cause massive social upheaval and unrest. Push all critical social services into a relentless reactive state. You can create counter tactics for sniper attacks, but nothing is going to resolve a mass of small scale mortar attacks.
Go for the long haul here. Everyone wants loud and noisy and something immediately splashy. Slow grind and attrition is how you break someone.
The key, as always, is using deniable non US assets on the ground with dark money funding.
This is a pretty horrific suggestion. Not only are you punishing the most vulnerable citizens, but there are so many possible unintended consequences of this. Many of those drugs are going to end up in other countries, possibly even right back in the US.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
How freaking sick are you? I work with Iranian people. They're great people, their government not so much.
Yeah, kill the people. JFC.
the moops
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ICfwQg75E
*************
During the American/Soviety proxy war in Afghanistan, the Mujahedeen, supported by our very own CIA, was the world's largest producer of opium. But that trade helped fund their war. How much death and carnage do you think spilled out from the entire world from that?
Noriega was a USDIA asset and spent 20 years basically ignored as a major world wide drug trafficker. Finally the US government had no more use of him and that's the only part you hear in the historical context and in the MSM, how he was deposed at the end, and not how he was enabled with our very own tax dollars.
ONI cut multiple deals with the Five Families (LCN) during WW2. This lead to Lucky Luciano getting a pass as long as he fled America. So what did he do? Entered the worldwide drug trade. How many people around died and suffered over that?
Any direct attack using actual formal US assets will trigger Iran. If they don't have nukes yet, they'll retaliate with chemical weapons. On US soil.
If I had my ideal pick, all of the world's children would be safe. If I have no choice, then I pick American's children first. My godson. The children of my employees. The children of people here.
You don't like it?
How do you think you get to live the decadent Western lifestyle you have right now? It was built on blood. It was built on the suffering of the entire world around us. The idea of "American Exceptionalism" in absolute terms is not a view commonly held outside of the larger Western world.
Iran can't have nukes. They are a clear and present threat to our national security.
Some of you want omelettes and no broken eggs. That's not how real life works. It's not how real geopolitical leverage works.
timschochet
Footballguy
It’d be one thing if this was an outlier, but nearly everything he posts is just as sick. But because he is supposedly a “conservative” and sounds somewhat educated, he gets defended a lot around here.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
In all serious:
Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan all have nuclear weapons. None of these nations are ruled by good people. We live with it. If Iran gets them we’re going to have to live with that too. So is Israel. They’re not going to use them because of mutual assured destruction. That’s been the deterrent since 1950 and it remains the only deterrent.
Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan all have nuclear weapons. None of these nations are ruled by good people. We live with it. If Iran gets them we’re going to have to live with that too. So is Israel. They’re not going to use them because of mutual assured destruction. That’s been the deterrent since 1950 and it remains the only deterrent.
timschochet
Footballguy
He suggested that Putin set off a nuclear bomb in Taiwan.
He proposed that it would be OK to hit protestors with a car.
He believes that the Democratic Party is encouraging the assassination of prominent conservatives.
I could go on and on…
GordonGekko
Footballguy
VIDEO: I've studied nuclear war for 35 years -- you should be worried. | Brian Toon | TEDxMileHigh Feb 1, 2018
For the first time in decades, it's hard to ignore the threat of nuclear war. But as long as you're far from the blast, you're safe, right? Wrong. In this sobering talk, atmospheric scientist Brian Toon explains how even a small nuclear war could destroy all life on earth -- and what we can do to prevent it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7hOpT0lPGI
VIDEO: This Is What a Nuclear War Would Actually Look Like (HBO) Mar 21, 2017 VICE News
As Secretary of Defense under President Clinton, Bill Perry has spent most of his life watching the world prepare for nuclear war. And given the current political climate, he thinks the world isn’t nearly as scared as it should be. Since the dawn of the nuclear age in the 1940s, most of the worlds nuclear capability was split between the U.S. and Russia. The umbrella of American protection meant that its allies didn’t have to develop nukes of their own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUBY6bMZn8w
*************
The current Military Industrial Complex has weighed out the possibilities of "regional nuclear war" or isolated to a few countries. The problem is the cascade effect on
1) The worldwide economy, which would collapse
2) On the worldwide asset base for practical food production
Which means this, Iran can develop "suitcase nukes" and hit someone, even if it's not the US, and even if the US, Russia and China don't get involved, and still collapse the entire world economy and kill our practical food supply around the globe.
Then we all die. Then our children die. All your children die. The people who die won't die quietly. For the majority, it won't be fast. In times of mass food shortages, do you know what happens? Breakdown of civil order, breakdown of basic social/government services. Eventually cannibalism. You aren't arguing with me anymore, you are arguing with recorded human history.
There is no "clean" methodology to stop Iran's nuclear program. There is no "bloodless" way to do it.
But here's an opportunity for you to explain it to the rest of us. Explain to us how there is a "bloodless" way to stop Iran at this point?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Then why do you people quote him???
ETA - maybe you don’t Tim - that “you” wasn’t directed at you
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timschochet
Footballguy
I rarely do. I never do to engage him in discussion (an impossibility anyhow.) Usually I only respond when he posts something so disgusting and gross it needs to be condemned immediately. But this seems to be happening more and more…
HellToupee
Footballguy
GordonGekko
Footballguy
You aren't looking at the macro view of this situation. Iran will defend it's nuclear program with it's chemical weapon arsenal. The Russia/Ukrainian War has highlighted how critical it is for a nation's sovereign status to be solely enforced as a true nuclear power in a practical geopolitical context. The primary drivers of Iran's chemical weapons development happens in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. This means satellite chemical weapons assets are also located in Syria and Libya.
Iran has pulled no punches about using chemical weapons. A battle in Halabja showed use of cyanide gas, mustard gas and nerve agents. Iran didn't care that their own men would die as well. In Basrah, Iran used mustard gas deployed with mortars. Much of the collateral damage were simply civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The CCP is a feeder system for phosphorus pentasulphide for Iran. That's for nerve agents.
Iran is a different animal than all other foreign threats to the US. Formal direct intervention to stop their nuclear program can be seen as an act of war. That means chemical weapons will be used on American soil in retaliation. Practical current terrorist tactics means it will likely be the Hezbollah out of Lebanon doing the deployment. How many people here have children?
As HellToupee pointed out, the CCP is already engaging in a soft war with America, pumping in precursors into Mexico to fuel the fentanyl trade coming into the United States.
Some of you don't seem to understand - The war isn't coming, the prologue to eventual World War is already here.
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GordonGekko
Footballguy
Direct Headline: Iran Rattled as Israel Repeatedly Strikes Key Targets
... In less than nine months, an assassin on a motorbike fatally shot an Al Qaeda commander given refuge in Tehran, Iran’s chief nuclear scientist was machine-gunned on a country road, and two separate, mysterious explosions rocked a key Iranian nuclear facility in the desert, striking the heart of the country’s efforts to enrich uranium....The steady drumbeat of attacks, which intelligence officials said were carried out by Israel, highlighted the seeming ease with which Israeli intelligence was able to reach deep inside Iran’s borders and repeatedly strike its most heavily guarded targets, often with the help of turncoat Iranians.....The attacks, the latest wave in more than two decades of sabotage and assassinations, have exposed embarrassing security lapses and left Iran’s leaders looking over their shoulders ...
....The general would have been the third high-ranking Iranian military official to be assassinated in the last 15 months. The United States killed Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, the leader of the Quds Force, in January of last year. Israel assassinated Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, Iran’s chief nuclear scientist and a brigadier general in the Revolutionary Guards, in November....The attacks represent an uptick in a long-running campaign by the intelligence services of Israel and the United States to subvert what they consider to be Iran’s threatening activities....
....Israel has been working to derail Iran’s nuclear program, which it considers a mortal threat, since it began. Israel is believed to have started assassinating key figures in the program in 2007, when a nuclear scientist at a uranium plant in Isfahan died in a mysterious gas leak....In the years since, six other scientists and military officials said to be critical to Iran’s nuclear efforts have been assassinated. A seventh was wounded....In addition to setting back Iran’s uranium enrichment program, the attacks are likely to weaken Iran’s hand in indirect talks with the United States over restoring the 2015 nuclear agreement....
By Ben Hubbard, Farnaz Fassihi and Ronen Bergman April 20, 2021
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/world/middleeast/iran-israeli-attacks.html
********
Surgical strikes that carry the trademark CIA SAD operational blue print all over it. Israel doesn't hit those targets without coordination with US based HUMINT and MASINT. And they wouldn't do it without the blessing of the sitting POTUS/Administrations given the time and place.
I get "defended a lot around here" because I know what I'm talking about.
Pick your poison for America's children - Mustard gas, nerve agents or nuclear holocaust.
That's the price of your virtue signaling. You can't negotiate with terrorists. These are formalized terrorists with a bigger job title. I have nothing against the rank and file Iranian people at large. But I'm not going to pick strangers over the safety of America's children.
Basic National Security 101 - You can choose to refuse to play the game, but if you do that, the game will play you instead.
You are screaming "Daddy Chill", I'm telling you how the US wins. Our children are only safe if we win and keep winning.
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I'm not sure how flooding the country with fentanyl does anything to solve the nuclear question here. All it does is make a dangerous situation even more dangerous, along with a number of other undesirable consequences. I'm also don't think that "China is doing it to us" is a good reason to do it to Iran.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
I don't think "we" (the good ol' US of A) need to do anything. Pretty sure the Israelis have it covered and will act as they see fit which has historically been to sabotage and destroy any such capabilities.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
TWEET: Ricky Gervais XX@XX rickygervais
You have the right to offend and be offended. But you don't have the right to never be offended.
5:30 AM Jan 2, 2016
https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/683279191874355203
**********
Actual practical political discussion can't happen if everyone makes the decision to only talk about things that will never offend anyone period. That's not how it works.
I talk about "hard unpleasant things" in modern current politics all the time.
There's a reason I do it and I don't spend my entire time looking for a shock effect on people.
If you would like to defend Iran getting nukes, go ahead, that's your free speech. If you defend it, my viewpoint is the same - You are defending the pathway to make it easier for America's children to die.
foxco
Footballguy
Fairly sure the U.S. is deeply involved in sabotaging Iran gaining nuclear capabilities. The U.S. and Israel are widely accepted to have created Stuxnet, the devasting virus that wreaked havoc on Iran's nuclear centrifuge equipment. We may not be sending boots to ground in Iran or directly firing missels, but we sure as hell aren't standing on the sidelines IMO.
the moops
Footballguy
Nobody is defending Iran getting nukes. We are all too busy being appalled at your completely maniacal take on wanting to murder innocent Iranians with fentanyl.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I think he meant that nobody that has responded to Gekko has advocated for Iran getting nukes (none that I've seen, but I could be wrong). That was a strawman that Gekko created. It is not either "let Iran get nukes" or "flood the country with fentanyl". There are many other options.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
There was someone advocating that, but not in response to GG's horrible and gross post.
Yeah. That's what I meant. I think it's a good idea to avoid statements like "nobody is saying x" because there will always be someone that is saying x. But that doesn't excuse the strawman/false dichotomy argument that GG made, it was weak.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Because I think this is the only thing that would stop the US/Israel's aggression against them
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m against this strategy in THIS instance, but I do have a warm spot in my heart for Grant and Sherman, the two American generals who mastered this technique.
quick-hands
Footballguy
The fentanyl part of this sounds like what the Chinese are doing to us right now. But they also have tick tok which is making kids mentally ill. Imo.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
If Iran gets nukes, what is the domino effect in the entire Middle East?
If they arm up, other countries in the region will want to do the same. Now you've beefed up the tensions regarding Saudia Arabia, Turkey and Iran. Lest anyone forget, Turkey is a legacy entrant into NATO. Xi and the CCP would love to drag Turkey into this mess overall to create a new proxy war where the US is obligated to defend Turkey.
Having anyone give up their nukes as part of a treaty won't happen anymore, not after what happened in Ukraine.
Would you like to see an out of control nuclear arms race happening in the Middle East? How do you think that ends up for the world for the long term? There is no way to fully neutralize Iranian nuclear development in total without all out war from Israel. What is the counter narrative there? The "Iron Dome" is a math problem for Iran. Saturate Israel's defenses past it's basic resource management capability, mostly through Syria as a proxy, and you've left them vulnerable and incapable of being the full time deterrent that many Westerners hope for there.
I've said this in the Ukraine War thread - You can't blindly apply Western standards into a non Western region, particularly one so hostile to the United States. The actual stakes here are nuclear holocaust. So yes, while you have every right to your own opinion, you aren't considering that my viewpoint is actually the least long term bloody way to end this mess.
The problem of the American radical left is their conception of liberal utopia means there can only be some idealistic heroic choice that validates them and some evil Conservative viewpoint bent on ending all democracy. That's some woke fantasy land version of political porn. Real life means sometimes your only options are a horrific choice and a morally repugnant choice.
Terrorists have their core identity intertwined with ideological purity. You can't negotiate with someone like this. You can't run diplomacy with these people. You can't blackmail them, or extort them or buy them off. If you apply Western standards and "wholesome Western arrogant virtue signaling" then all you are doing is making an open display of weakness that they will seek to exploit.
You know what I find "appalling"? That you believe there's a clean way out of this mess. I'm not picking anyone else in the entire world over the safety and security of America's children. If it makes you sleep any better at night, the majority of the current high level Military Industrial Complex thinks more like me and far far far less like you.
Michael Corleone: [about the unrest in Cuba] We saw a strange thing on our way here. Some rebels were being arrested, and instead of being arrested, one of them pulled the pin on a grenade he had hidden in his jacket. He took himself and the captain of the command with him. Now, the soldiers are paid to fight; the rebels aren't.
Hyman Roth: What does that tell you?
Michael Corleone: They can win.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Some here are outraged by GGs post but aren’t about US citizens purposely killed by fetanyl coming across the borderquick-hands said:
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Amused to Death
Footballguy
And others are just disgusted about blatant disregard for human life, regardless of country or nationality.
the moops
Footballguy
This thread is, or is supposed to be about Iran and nuclear weapons. We are outraged about the fentanyl problem - hell my sister in law died last year from a fentanyl overdose. But that issue has nothing to do with Iran and nukes no matter what maniacal take gecko has
Dickies
Footballguy
You've got this wrong. We are outraged by the harm that fentanyl is causing, which makes it even more outrageous that GG would suggest the US sponsor genocide of innocent Iranians via fentanyl.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
timschochet
Footballguy
Honestly I think they want nukes for the same reason Pakistan and North Korea did: first because they believe it gives them tremendous prestige, that they will be treated seriously as a “power”. Second because they believe it protects them from the threat of destruction.
I'd guess that Iran would use them the same as every other country uses them: to deter their enemies from attacking them.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action was working extremely well. Unfortunately the Trump Administration abandoned it and now we're stuck in a really bad place. I don't know the answers, but I 1000% oppose state sponsored genocide via fentanyl. I am not a Nazi.
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Navin Johnson
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
The want them for the same reason other countries want them. To a) act as a deterrent for aggressive military action against their country. And b) to credibly threaten other countries with destruction.
I do not think that they will use them against Isreal or any other country as a first strike.
Toby2ElectricBugaloo
Footballguy
Hmm, good questions.
If only someone had thought to not only ask them but also answer them through unified and effective international action a decade ago. Oh well. Dare to dream, I guess.
