Is Barry Sanders a top 5 RB of All-Time? (1 Viewer)

[ILoveMyLions]

Obviously I'm a Barry Fan being that I'm from Detroit. I think Barry is the best RB that I ever saw but could understand how someone else would say that Jim Brown, Walter Payton or OJ were the best as well.In regards to the comments listed previously in the other thread about LT being the greatest back, for some to say that Barry shouldn't be even on the list of the top five is crap IMO. Here are a few points that I want to address, some of which were discussed and some were not:The guy could break one from anywhere on the field and carried the Lions offense all those years. After all, outside of 1995, he was never in a top flight offense. He had to make something out of nothing all those years.Someone else mentioned that he averaged 5.0+ yards a carry for his career; only Jim Brown has done that when he was a man amongst boys back in the day. He was rarely hurt missing only one stretch of games in his career.He wasn't used in short yardage much, not because he sucked at it, but because coaches didn't use him properly. His numbers in college and the pro when given the opportunity show that. The offense they used in Detroit didn't really use him out of the backfield either. It wasn't his strength, but if you watched him play, his hands were adequate.No question that he wasn't the greatest blocker, but to say he was a poor blocker is ignorant and makes me wonder if you ever saw him play. He was an average blocker.He very rerely fumbled and set the record for consecutive carries without a fumble.He played with crappy QBs, imcompetent coaches, constantly faced 8 in the box and lost both starting guards who were talented after the 91 season, from which the Oline never fully recovered.All the records and throw in the 2000 yard season, and I think it's hard to keep him out of the top 5.One last point, which is the true mark of a great player is the comparisons drawn.In 1989, the question was "Who was better, Barry or Christian Okaye?"In 1990-92, the question was "Who was better, Barry or Thurman Thomas?"In 1992-96, the question was "Who was better, Barry or Emmitt Smith?"In 1997-2000, the question was "Who was better, Barry or Terrell Davis?"What's been constant all that time? Answer - Barry SandersCareer Stats - Judge for yourself... +--------------------------+-------------------------+ | Rushing | Receiving |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1989 det | 15 | 280 1470 5.2 14 | 24 282 11.8 0 || 1990 det | 16 | 255 1304 5.1 13 | 36 480 13.3 3 || 1991 det | 15 | 342 1548 4.5 16 | 41 307 7.5 1 || 1992 det | 16 | 312 1352 4.3 9 | 29 225 7.8 1 || 1993 det | 11 | 243 1115 4.6 3 | 36 205 5.7 0 || 1994 det | 16 | 331 1883 5.7 7 | 44 283 6.4 1 || 1995 det | 16 | 314 1500 4.8 11 | 48 398 8.3 1 || 1996 det | 16 | 307 1553 5.1 11 | 24 147 6.1 0 || 1997 det | 16 | 335 2053 6.1 11 | 33 305 9.2 3 || 1998 det | 16 | 343 1491 4.3 4 | 37 289 7.8 0 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| TOTAL | 153 | 3062 15269 5.0 99 | 352 2921 8.3 10

 

[packersfan]

I'm not old enough to have seen Jim Brown, but I've seen every great RB since the 70s and without a doubt Sanders is the greatest RB I've ever seen. Just one man's opinion.

 

[FUBAR]

Vote is at 14-0, says it all.

 

[SouthJersey]

Barry is a top 3 back of all time. Arguably the best.

 

[perry147]

I voted yes BUT if you had to build a team around a player I would not choose Barry.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I can understand if someone wants to present a logical argument that he's not the greatest back of all time. Potaytoe / potahtoe. Saying that he's not in the top 5 is beyond dumb.

 

[FUBAR]

I voted yes BUT if you had to build a team around a player I would not choose Barry.

I wouldn't choose a RB.

 

[Gr00vus]

I'm not old enough to have seen Jim Brown, but I've seen every great RB since the 70s and without a doubt Sanders is the greatest RB I've ever seen. Just one man's opinion.

He's also was the most exciting/fun to watch element of NFL football since Air Coryell.

 

[thatguy]

I have a quick question regarding Barry's retirement. I heard from a friend that it went something like this:His agent called him up and asked how he was doing. Barry replied that he was tired, and the agent thought he said, I retired. The agent then made it public, and rather than point out the mixup, Barry, being shy and humble as he is, just went along with it. It this true? It sounds crazy, and I have a hard time believing it, but my buddy said he heard Barry say this in an interview once.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm not old enough to have seen Jim Brown, but I've seen every great RB since the 70s and without a doubt Sanders is the greatest RB I've ever seen. Just one man's opinion.

He's also was the most exciting/fun to watch element of NFL football since Air Coryell.

Think what if you mixed the DNA from Tomlinson and Dante Hall.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

With guys like...Jim BrownWalter PaytonEmmit SmithMarcus Allen Eric DickersonTony DorsettOJJohn RigginsGale SayersMarshall FaulkLT2I don't see it such a clear cut for sure that Sanders is a Top 5 RB of all time. I think alot of people put him up there so easily because they have seen him play, whereas not seen guys like Jim Brown or Walter Payton play.Thats like the poll for LT being the best RB of all-time. People say yes because he has played in their era.

 

[MSULions]

I can understand if someone wants to present a logical argument that he's not the greatest back of all time. Potaytoe / potahtoe.

Saying that he's not in the top 5 is beyond dumb.

who you calling dumb?

 

[dgreen]

Saying that he's not in the top 5 is beyond dumb.

Most people would put Brown and Payton ahead of Sanders, and I'd agree. Although Sanders performed longer, I could be convinced that Sayers or O.J. were better in their prime. That could put Sanders down to 5. And if you get into what kind of offense you want to run and what kind of running game you prefer, someone could argue that for a couple years, Earl Campbell would be more beneficial to a team than Sanders. And, of course, you always have the contigent that says Emmitt was better.All that to say I'm not voting either way. I'm not sure exactly where I'd put him, but I lean towards him being top 5. But, I certainly wouldn't think it is beyond dumb to say he's not top 5.

 

[Mr. Anonymous]

I would say it's between Brown and Sanders. Didn't see Brown play so I'm not going to narrow it further.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

I have a quick question regarding Barry's retirement. I heard from a friend that it went something like this:

His agent called him up and asked how he was doing. Barry replied that he was tired, and the agent thought he said, I retired. The agent then made it public, and rather than point out the mixup, Barry, being shy and humble as he is, just went along with it.

It this true? It sounds crazy, and I have a hard time believing it, but my buddy said he heard Barry say this in an interview once.

I heard this rumor at one point as well, but have heard from some sources that this was not the case. To my knowledge, that's not how it went down.

 

[perry147]

Saying that he's not in the top 5 is beyond dumb.

Most people would put Brown and Payton ahead of Sanders, and I'd agree. Although Sanders performed longer, I could be convinced that Sayers or O.J. were better in their prime. That could put Sanders down to 5. And if you get into what kind of offense you want to run and what kind of running game you prefer, someone could argue that for a couple years, Earl Campbell would be more beneficial to a team than Sanders. And, of course, you always have the contigent that says Emmitt was better.All that to say I'm not voting either way. I'm not sure exactly where I'd put him, but I lean towards him being top 5. But, I certainly wouldn't think it is beyond dumb to say he's not top 5.

Moveover I would say that anyone who says that someone who does not put Barry in the top five is beyond dumb is beyond dumb.

 

[blake]

I have a quick question regarding Barry's retirement. I heard from a friend that it went something like this:

His agent called him up and asked how he was doing. Barry replied that he was tired, and the agent thought he said, I retired. The agent then made it public, and rather than point out the mixup, Barry, being shy and humble as he is, just went along with it.

It this true? It sounds crazy, and I have a hard time believing it, but my buddy said he heard Barry say this in an interview once.

 

[gman8343]

Sanders was the most exciting RB I ever watched, but I'm not sure about greatest. The guy was hit for a loss more than anyone this side of Ron Dayne, putting his team in a lot of third and long situations. In many instances his style of play hurt his team as much as it helped it.I dunno if he's top 5 IMO, it's close -- definately top 2 or 3 to watch.

 

[ILoveMyLions]

I voted yes BUT if you had to build a team around a player I would not choose Barry.

I wouldn't choose a RB.

I would also agree with this. I would not choose a RB but rather would likely choose a QB or an impact defensive player like L Taylor. It's a different arguement and maybe one for another time, but if I had to choose a RB, he'd be in the top 5.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Jim BrownEric DickersonWalter PaytonEmmitt SmithBarry SandersOJ SimpsonLadanian TomlinsonMarshall FaulkAll of these guys are worthy of consideration, but I have no problem with whatever order they are ranked in.

 

[Maelstrom]

I have a quick question regarding Barry's retirement. I heard from a friend that it went something like this:

His agent called him up and asked how he was doing. Barry replied that he was tired, and the agent thought he said, I retired. The agent then made it public, and rather than point out the mixup, Barry, being shy and humble as he is, just went along with it.

It this true? It sounds crazy, and I have a hard time believing it, but my buddy said he heard Barry say this in an interview once.

Serious question??That's crazy talk - there was a lot of behind closed door stuff going on, and Barry was sick of it (IMO). Your buddy misheard something, not the agent - I've never heard anything like that, and I've been living near Detroit since it happened.

Besides, it cost him $5million dollars - I don't care how humble you are, you'd clear up the mistake in a hurry if that much money was at stake.

If you're just ,

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Saying that he's not in the top 5 is beyond dumb.

Most people would put Brown and Payton ahead of Sanders, and I'd agree. Although Sanders performed longer, I could be convinced that Sayers or O.J. were better in their prime. That could put Sanders down to 5. And if you get into what kind of offense you want to run and what kind of running game you prefer, someone could argue that for a couple years, Earl Campbell would be more beneficial to a team than Sanders. And, of course, you always have the contigent that says Emmitt was better.All that to say I'm not voting either way. I'm not sure exactly where I'd put him, but I lean towards him being top 5. But, I certainly wouldn't think it is beyond dumb to say he's not top 5.

Moveover I would say that anyone who says that someone who does not put Barry in the top five is beyond dumb is beyond dumb.

Aren;t opinions fun like that?

 

[SouthJersey]

I have a quick question regarding Barry's retirement. I heard from a friend that it went something like this:

His agent called him up and asked how he was doing. Barry replied that he was tired, and the agent thought he said, I retired. The agent then made it public, and rather than point out the mixup, Barry, being shy and humble as he is, just went along with it.

It this true? It sounds crazy, and I have a hard time believing it, but my buddy said he heard Barry say this in an interview once.

I heard this rumor at one point as well, but have heard from some sources that this was not the case. To my knowledge, that's not how it went down.

IIRC someone told this story at Barry's HOF induction ceremonmy. I'm not sure if it was told as a joke or as fact though.And by being "tired" did he mean, physically tired, or tired of losing?

 

[ILoveMyLions]

someone could argue that for a couple years, Earl Campbell would be more beneficial to a team than Sanders. And, of course, you always have the contigent that says Emmitt was better.

I think that longevity has to factor into the arguement. The likes of Campbell and T Davis and T. Thomas has some great seasons, but didn't do it over 8-10 years. I don't see how you can be ranked that high and not produce for that long. Also, you must take into account a player being considered the among best of their time to be ranked that high as well. Good discussion guys...

 

[dgreen]

someone could argue that for a couple years, Earl Campbell would be more beneficial to a team than Sanders. And, of course, you always have the contigent that says Emmitt was better.

I think that longevity has to factor into the arguement. The likes of Campbell and T Davis and T. Thomas has some great seasons, but didn't do it over 8-10 years. I don't see how you can be ranked that high and not produce for that long. Also, you must take into account a player being considered the among best of their time to be ranked that high as well. Good discussion guys...

I agree longevity is part of the equation. But, I would be fine if someone said they'd rather have Campbell, because of his style, over Sanders. You sacrifice some years, but you might gain the type of runner that is more beneficial to winning. I'm not saying that's what I'd do. This was just an argument against the "beyond dumb" comment.ETA: And, if you don't want a bruiser, but think an offense with a versatile back that can catch passes is the best way to win games, you might rank Faulk or someone like Lenny Moore above Barry. I know, Barry could catch passes, but his receiving skills don't compare to Faulk's or Moore's.

 

[thatguy]

I have a quick question regarding Barry's retirement.  I heard from a friend that it went something like this:

His agent called him up and asked how he was doing.  Barry replied that he was tired, and the agent thought he said, I retired.  The agent then made it public, and rather than point out the mixup, Barry, being shy and humble as he is, just went along with it.

It this true?  It sounds crazy, and I have a hard time believing it, but my buddy said he heard Barry say this in an interview once.

Serious question??That's crazy talk - there was a lot of behind closed door stuff going on, and Barry was sick of it (IMO). Your buddy misheard something, not the agent - I've never heard anything like that, and I've been living near Detroit since it happened.

Besides, it cost him $5million dollars - I don't care how humble you are, you'd clear up the mistake in a hurry if that much money was at stake.

If you're just ,

Yes, it's a serious question. So you can go ahead and put your thumb back up. It is what my buddy told me and I have never really looked into the truth. Figured this board was the place to do that.

 

[Gr00vus]

someone could argue that for a couple years, Earl Campbell would be more beneficial to a team than Sanders. And, of course, you always have the contigent that says Emmitt was better.

I think that longevity has to factor into the arguement. The likes of Campbell and T Davis and T. Thomas has some great seasons, but didn't do it over 8-10 years. I don't see how you can be ranked that high and not produce for that long. Also, you must take into account a player being considered the among best of their time to be ranked that high as well. Good discussion guys...

I agree longevity is part of the equation. But, I would be fine if someone said they'd rather have Campbell, because of his style, over Sanders. You sacrifice some years, but you might gain the type of runner that is more beneficial to winning. I'm not saying that's what I'd do. This was just an argument against the "beyond dumb" comment.

Earl Campbell is another of my favorite all time players and that'd be an interesting debate if there was anything to it, but I don't remember Houston winning any Super Bowls with Earl Campbell. They did make it to a couple of AFC Championship games, but they never went to the big dance. Barry got to the NFC championship once. So in my book Earl really didn't get his team that much farther in the "winning" department than Barry did.I'd still say Barry is the best RB I've ever seen in my lifetime, and I've been watching pro ball since about 1975.

 

[Tick]

I can understand if someone wants to present a logical argument that he's not the greatest back of all time. Potaytoe / potahtoe.

Saying that he's not in the top 5 is beyond dumb.

I put him at #4/5 behind Brown, Payton, OJ, and even with Emmitt. He was the most exciting player to watch, but not the best IMO.

 

[jwvdcw]

1. J Brown

2. W Payton

3. Emmitt Smith

4. LT2

5. M Faulk

6. G Sayers

7. E Campbell

8. B Sanders

9. OJ Simpson

10. S Alexander

The best comparison of another athlete that I can make is to Vince Carter- perhaps the most exciting player of all time, but doesn't do a lot of the little things that it takes to win. Not much of a team leader, an average blocker, average short yardage runner, came up short in big games, average pass catcher, etc. I'll fully admit that he was the greatest pure runner of all time, but hes simply not a complete back at all and is overrated due to the "highlight reel generation" in which we live. It doesn't suprise me at all- any player with great highlights is going to be overrated in our society.

For all of those saying how stupid it is to even suggest that Barry is not top 5, please pick any one of my top 5 RBs, and we'll do a comparison(with that said, I would rather not compare LT2 to him yet just because it'd be difficult to do so since he hasn't played that long, but I'd still do it if need be).

 

[oso diablo]

i'd like to see the Faulk/Sanders comparison. not because i think it's stupid, but because that's who i was debating in my head.

 

[teriaki]

The best comparison of another athlete that I can make is to Vince Carter- perhaps the most exciting player of all time, but doesn't do a lot of the little things that it takes to win.

I'd like to see how you make the argument that Vince Carter is the most exciting player of all time.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm not old enough to have seen Jim Brown, but I've seen every great RB since the 70s and without a doubt Sanders is the greatest RB I've ever seen. Just one man's opinion.

He's also was the most exciting/fun to watch element of NFL football since Air Coryell.

...and the only good thing to happen to the Lions in the last 40 years.

 

[jwvdcw]

i'd like to see the Faulk/Sanders comparison. not because i think it's stupid, but because that's who i was debating in my head.

What I'll do is give a bunch of categories, then say who I think has the advantage and how much of an advantage it is. Obviously, this is subjective, so if anyone disagrees then feel free to argue.PURE RUNNING ABILITY(ability to make people miss)

Huge Advantage: Sanders

Barry wins this category against anyone else in NFL history, so even though Faulk was spectacular, he has no shot here.

SHORT YARDAGE RUNNING ABILITY(ability to run with power)

Slight Advantage: Faulk

Barry danced too much and wasn't as powerful as Faulk.

RUNNING SPEED(ability to not be caught from behind)

Even

My first instinct is to give this to Faulk, as I've seen Barry caught from behind, but in an effort to remain unbaised, I'll call it even.

PASS CATCHING ABILITY(wide receiver-like qualities)

Huge Advantage: Faulk

One of the best pass catching RBs of all time against a guy who was average, at best, in this category

LEADERSHIP ABILITY(ability to make those around him better)

Advantage: Faulk

Obviously we're going by a lot of hearsay here, but I've never heard or seen anything to suggest that Faulk shouldn't win this category. The fact that Faulk has had more team success-while I won't count that against Barry in its own category- does verify this selection.

I guess it boils down to this: Surely we can all agree that Barry is by far the better pure runner. Also, surely we can all agree that Marshall is by far the better pass catcher. So if these two cancel each other out, then just look to the other categories for your winner.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

With guys like...

Jim Brown

Walter Payton

Emmit Smith

Marcus Allen

Eric Dickerson

Tony Dorsett

OJ

John Riggins

Gale Sayers

Marshall Faulk

LT2

I don't see it such a clear cut for sure that Sanders is a Top 5 RB of all time. I think alot of people put him up there so easily because they have seen him play, whereas not seen guys like Jim Brown or Walter Payton play.

You need to remove Dorsett from that list - he doesn't belong.

 

[jwvdcw]

The best comparison of another athlete that I can make is to Vince Carter- perhaps the most exciting player of all time, but doesn't do a lot of the little things that it takes to win.

I'd like to see how you make the argument that Vince Carter is the most exciting player of all time.

He has imho the 2 best dunks of all time. And yes, I've seen pretty much every "great dunk" and have most of them on various DVDs. Obviously Jordan belongs in this discussion, and most probably he would win the debate over Carter, but Carter at least is in the argument, which is all that I was saying.

I'd also include a guy like Dawkins in this debate. And depending upon what exactly excites you, Magic too.

 

[jwvdcw]

I'm not old enough to have seen Jim Brown, but I've seen every great RB since the 70s and without a doubt Sanders is the greatest RB I've ever seen. Just one man's opinion.

He's also was the most exciting/fun to watch element of NFL football since Air Coryell.

...and the only good thing to happen to the Lions in the last 40 years.

Herman Moore wasn't too shabby. In 1995, thier passing attack ranked the same as their rushing attack(#3 in the league) to give them a great offense. Too bad their defense ranked 27th. They had two WRs with over 107 catches and over 1475 yards!!

 

[dgreen]

I guess it boils down to this: Surely we can all agree that Barry is by far the better pure runner. Also, surely we can all agree that Marshall is by far the better pass catcher. So if these two cancel each other out, then just look to the other categories for your winner.

You can only use the other categories to determine your winner if you weigh Pure Running and Pass Catching equally. I think Sanders would rank higher than Faulk on most lists because most people value Pure Running higher than Pass Catching when it comes to their RB.How was Barry is pass protection? I seem to remember Faulk being pretty darn good.

 

[Gravity]

Sanders was the best RB I have ever seen.But Bo Jackson was the most exciting RB I have ever seen.Shame both careers were shortened.

 

[Challenge Everything]

1. J Brown

2. W Payton

3. Emmitt Smith

4. LT2

5. M Faulk

6. G Sayers

7. E Campbell

8. B Sanders

9. OJ Simpson

10. S Alexander

The best comparison of another athlete that I can make is to Vince Carter- perhaps the most exciting player of all time, but doesn't do a lot of the little things that it takes to win. Not much of a team leader, an average blocker, average short yardage runner, came up short in big games, average pass catcher, etc. I'll fully admit that he was the greatest pure runner of all time, but hes simply not a complete back at all and is overrated due to the "highlight reel generation" in which we live. It doesn't suprise me at all- any player with great highlights is going to be overrated in our society.

For all of those saying how stupid it is to even suggest that Barry is not top 5, please pick any one of my top 5 RBs, and we'll do a comparison(with that said, I would rather not compare LT2 to him yet just because it'd be difficult to do so since he hasn't played that long, but I'd still do it if need be).

The sad thing about this post is that you are serious about it. I can live with Jim Brown or Payton at the top but Emmitt at number 3... LT2 at 4... he has been in the league for 4 years or so. No way someone is already that great after only being in the league for so short a time. Is he good? Does he produce... yeah. Thats all good and all but how can LT2 be at 4 and Alexander be at 10 when there numbers are almost identical in terms of football the past few years? No sense at all. Faulk at 5... Sorry, Faulk is good and was great but in the years the NFL has been around to put him at 5 is nonsense. Sayers and Campbell... never saw them play but I bet NFL historians would almost take them before the likes of Faulk and Smith. Question is where is Barry? I put him in the top 5 because he is Barry. The player who could score from anywere on the field be it the one yard line or the 99th yard line. Let it be known that Barry had Paytons record signed, sealed and delivered before Emmitt was even thinking about it. The rushing record if Brown wants to lay claim to it over Payton that is all good but even Brown has to give it up if Sanders is mentioned. Barry was the RB icon of his time and he was surrounded by other good RB's in his time. I could see Brown, Payton, Campbell and OJ tossed in the top 4 with Barry somewhere in there as well. I would be willing to bet not many people would feel slighted with that list. However, having Faulk and Smith and LT2 up there is lunacy to me.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Sanders is the best runner I've ever seen (I've seen only highlights of Jim Brown, not full games).LT sometimes reminds me of Sanders, but he's not the same. Sanders had better balance, and changed direction even more suddenly and more radically. He probably also had better speed. (LT has better power.)As a runner, there's no question in my opinion that Sanders was better than LT is, and they are the two best runners I've seen (although I love Walter Payton as well).But if the question is best RB as opposed to best runner, it's a difficult judgment call. How important is downfield receiving? How important is pass-blocking? How important is moving the pile in short-yardage situations? Reasonable people will differ on those questions.But I don't know how a reasonable person could watch a lot of Barry Sanders tapes and not put him in the top five. The primary job of a running back is to run the ball, and Barry was simply incredible in that role.(Edit: I think Marshall Faulk is the guy who is most unfairly left out of top five discussions. He was also pretty incredible, and could do it all.)

 

[TME]

A little input:I recall an interview with Warren Sapp about the most amazing players that he had ever played with or against. This interview was a couple of year's ago. This list was the type of guys that even wow the players on the field. The type of guys that even the players themselves like to watch because these guys abilities are amazing and standout even in the NFL. This list is a combination of wow factor and pure ability. He mentioned:1. Deion Sanders2. Barry Sanders3. Mike Vick Just an interesting perspective. A lot of guys seem to be ranking soley on production or at least heavily weighted on production. If I had to go on wow factor and ability regardless of duration, I would say Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers and Jim Brown.But, what really makes this difficult too, is the different generations in which these guys all played and how the game has evolved, how the use of athletes has evolved (I have heard the old guys say that the best athletes used to play offense and running back. That's part of the reason why they ran away from the defense so easily. Now, defenses are faster. It's more balanced.) and how the position has evolved.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

No love for the old timers? Hornung was awesome. Marion Motley was power. Lenny Moore could stride out like nobody's business. And Leroy kelly was the best mudder I ever saw.Their stats don't reflect well against today's players because season had fewer games and injuries could not be treated with today's means.Lets not forget those like Hinkle, McNally and others from the old days either. Some of those oldtimers had careers interrupted by WWII or the Korean War. Maybe their stats should be adjusted some. Or maybe the stat lines should be increased to include other relevant stats like missions flown or enemy killed.None of this should be taken as a slight to Barry who made opponents hold their breaths every time he touched the ball. The only knock I have on Barry is his playoff stat line aginst Green Bay.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

LT2 at 4... he has been in the league for 4 years or so. No way someone is already that great after only being in the league for so short a time. Is he good? Does he produce... yeah. Thats all good and all but how can LT2 be at 4 and Alexander be at 10 when there numbers are almost identical in terms of football the past few years?

Because numbers aren't what matter.On many of Barry's most amazing runs, for example, he gained zero yards. I've seen Ron Dayne gain a very easy two yards before tripping over his own feet. A two-yard run isn't always better than a zero-yard run (when other things aren't equal), and the same principle goes for season numbers and career numbers.

 

[Challenge Everything]

The only knock I have on Barry is his playoff stat line aginst Green Bay.

I was a Barry fan as long as he did not play against the Packers but that game was awesome as a Packer fan. I was at the Wisconsin vs. Marguette college b-ball game that day and at half time people go out to buy snacks and that day catch up on the Packer game. By the fourth quarter of the Packer game, which was the beginning of the 2nd half of basketball the corridors of the Bradley Center were packed full with people watching the football game. When that stat line of Sanders came up with -1 rushing yards... the corridor cheered so loudly the people inside watching basketball must have been wondering what the hell was going on outside. That game was awesome to watch but even we knew that any game Barry was in was never over because he could break one from anywhere on the field.

 

[Challenge Everything]

LT2 at 4... he has been in the league for 4 years or so.  No way someone is already that great after only being in the league for so short a time.  Is he good?  Does he produce... yeah.  Thats all good and all but how can LT2 be at 4 and Alexander be at 10 when there numbers are almost identical in terms of football the past few  years?

Because numbers aren't what matter.On many of Barry's most amazing runs, for example, he gained zero yards. I've seen Ron Dayne gain a very easy two yards before tripping over his own feet. A two-yard run isn't always better than a zero-yard run (when other things aren't equal), and the same principle goes for season numbers and career numbers.

Im well aware but placing a few years of greatness into the all time greats is lunacy to me. Kind of like saying Bart Starr is not that great because his numbers dont reflect todays stats. Lunacy to me. LT2 is great today, but overall he is a flash in the NFL right now compared to many other RB's who have produced over a longer period of time.

 

[whhwalker]

IMO these guys are locks:Jim Brown - Never tackled for a loss. Never.Walter Payton - Always ran downhillEmmitt Smith - He IS the rushing leader and scored 164 rushing TD's.Now here are guys I think leave the debate open for spots 4 and 5:Curtis Martin: Why is it C-Mart is always left off these lists? He has a chance to be the first person ever to rush for over 1000 yards in 11 consecutive seasons.OJ Simpson: Dominated the position in his era.Barry Sanders: He and Martin both had 1000 yards for 10 straight years. He was the most exciting player to watch, but he lost a lot of yards, and had a poor playoff record.Bo Jackson: If not for injuries.....Gayle Sayers: Same mold as Sanders, exciting to watch, but....Terrell Davis: If not for injuries......Marcus Allen: 123 TDs second only to Emmitt.Thurman Thomas: Much like C-Mart, often times gets overlooked, workman-like consistent performer.Let us not forget those still playing who could easily be top 5 material in the next few years: Edge, LT2 and Alexander.

 

[TME]

I think Marshall Faulk does deserve the high praise and deserves more from those not giving it to him. Faulk was a revolutionary back. He set the framework for the type of back that the great backs like LT are today. Faulk played at a very high level for 8-9 years and for a streak of 4 years was one of the most amazing backs the league has ever seen. Actually, up to that time, I do not think that the league had ever seen anything like him. The guy was putting up 1,300 - 1,400 yards rushing, 750 - 1,000 yards receiving and incredible scoring production. He was the focal point of the or one of the greatest offenses in league history. I think he certainly deserves to be mentioned on a short list of backs, and I think he created the mold for the type of back coveted today. As of right now, today, LT does not belong above Faulk on any list of great RBs. They are both comparably skilled players, but Faulk's career and peek accomplishments (including SB rings) trumps LT's great beginning so far.

 

[dgreen]

But I don't know how a reasonable person could watch a lot of Barry Sanders tapes and not put him in the top five.

Easy. You just have to come up five names that are better. As I said, most will say Brown and Payton were better. Then, you'll get plenty of arguments that OJ and Sayers were better. That puts Barry 5th, at best. Then you throw in the arguments for Emmitt, Campbell, Faulk, and a few others.At first thought, it seems like Barry should be a lock to be top 5. But, once you start listing the players, it becomes a little less clear.

 

[jwvdcw]

1. J Brown

2. W Payton

3. Emmitt Smith

4. LT2

5. M Faulk

6. G Sayers

7. E Campbell

8. B Sanders

9. OJ Simpson

10. S Alexander

The best comparison of another athlete that I can make is to Vince Carter- perhaps the most exciting player of all time, but doesn't do a lot of the little things that it takes to win. Not much of a team leader, an average blocker, average short yardage runner, came up short in big games, average pass catcher, etc. I'll fully admit that he was the greatest pure runner of all time, but hes simply not a complete back at all and is overrated due to the "highlight reel generation" in which we live. It doesn't suprise me at all- any player with great highlights is going to be overrated in our society.

For all of those saying how stupid it is to even suggest that Barry is not top 5, please pick any one of my top 5 RBs, and we'll do a comparison(with that said, I would rather not compare LT2 to him yet just because it'd be difficult to do so since he hasn't played that long, but I'd still do it if need be).

The sad thing about this post is that you are serious about it. I can live with Jim Brown or Payton at the top but Emmitt at number 3... LT2 at 4... he has been in the league for 4 years or so. No way someone is already that great after only being in the league for so short a time. Is he good? Does he produce... yeah. Thats all good and all but how can LT2 be at 4 and Alexander be at 10 when there numbers are almost identical in terms of football the past few years? No sense at all. Faulk at 5... Sorry, Faulk is good and was great but in the years the NFL has been around to put him at 5 is nonsense. Sayers and Campbell... never saw them play but I bet NFL historians would almost take them before the likes of Faulk and Smith. Question is where is Barry? I put him in the top 5 because he is Barry. The player who could score from anywere on the field be it the one yard line or the 99th yard line. Let it be known that Barry had Paytons record signed, sealed and delivered before Emmitt was even thinking about it. The rushing record if Brown wants to lay claim to it over Payton that is all good but even Brown has to give it up if Sanders is mentioned. Barry was the RB icon of his time and he was surrounded by other good RB's in his time. I could see Brown, Payton, Campbell and OJ tossed in the top 4 with Barry somewhere in there as well. I would be willing to bet not many people would feel slighted with that list. However, having Faulk and Smith and LT2 up there is lunacy to me.

Me: I admit Barry is the greatest pure runner of all time, but his shortcomings in other areas mean that hes not a top 5 RB of all time.You: Yeah, but look at what a great pure runner Barry was!



You didn't address any of my points at all.

How can you disrespect Emmitt Smith like that? He was one of the best leaders ever at the RB position, was a much better blocker than Barry, better short yardage runner than Barry, was better in the clutch than Barry, was tougher than Barry....YES, I ADMIT THAT BARRY IS THE GREATEST PURE RUNNER OF ALL TIME. Lets take a look at your reasons for having him so high....

I put him in the top 5 because he is Barry

ummmm....ok.

The player who could score from anywere on the field be it the one yard line or the 99th yard line.

Yes, Barry did break long runs a lot. However, he was a liability as a short yardage runner and often taken out at the goalline, so scoring from the 1 was not a strength of his.

Let it be known that Barry had Paytons record signed, sealed and delivered before Emmitt was even thinking about it. The rushing record if Brown wants to lay claim to it over Payton that is all good but even Brown has to give it up if Sanders is mentioned.

As I said, I admit that Barry is the greatest runner of all time.....I already admitted this, so why are you still trying to convince me of it? This does nothing to address any of my points.

Barry was the RB icon of his time and he was surrounded by other good RB's in his time.

Not sure what you're basing this on. However, as I already said, people love highlight reel type players, and if that made Barry an icon, then I'll agree with you. That still doesn't address any of my points about Barry's shortcomings.

I could see Brown, Payton, Campbell and OJ tossed in the top 4 with Barry somewhere in there as well. I would be willing to bet not many people would feel slighted with that list. However, having Faulk and Smith and LT2 up there is lunacy to me.

LT2 is one of the greatest pass catching RBs of all time. Emmitt Smith is one of the great leaders at his position of all time. Both are great blockers(especially LT2). In other words, they are complete RBs. They did not succeed in just one aspect of the game like Barry. I think I've been clear that this is why I place them higher.

In short, I don't really know how to respond with your post because you didn't really add anything that I wasn't already agreeing with. I agree Barry is a great pure runner. However, your post totally ignored all of my points about Barry being weak in other areas.

One more thing about what you said...

Thats all good and all but how can LT2 be at 4 and Alexander be at 10 when there numbers are almost identical in terms of football the past few years? No sense at all.

I really don't care to debate this too much. LT2 is simply better than SA. This has been discussed here before, and I can't recall any one person ever saying that SA is as good of a football player as LT2. Look up some of those old posts.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

90% have it right so far...