Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Is Cadillac Williams the Bucs starting RB? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter gbill2004
- Start date
Shark league for sure.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Which of the 3 heads gets it at the goalline?
Black&Gold
Footballguy
All it takes is a healthy Caddy (big if I know) and an injury to either Ward or Graham or both (which is pretty likely too) and he could be a very good #2 fantasy RB. Not too bad for all it takes to get him right now.
Sinrman
Footballguy
gump
Footballguy
Who would it not 'go well' with? CW is a fan favorite, and giving him the ball (with success) would be received very well locally.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
To me there will be such a committee situation that it doesn't matter who is named starter. I see no value in Tampa unless your talking deep leagues
CowboyFan
Footballguy
Despite the coach speak of a rotation, I don't think it would take an injury to Ward or Graham, IF Caddy stays healthy, he is BY FAR the most talented RB on the team and the number of carries will reflect that.Caddy is easily the biggest risk/reward mid-late round pick. While Ward's ADP is around guys like LJ, Parker, and Rice (late 5th/early 6th); Caddy can be had in the 12th round (or later).To me it is a no brainer, grab my 5th WR or back up TE, OR grab a guy that could put up RB2 numbers, and if he gets hurt, I'm sure I could grab a waiver wire WR that will perform as well as anyone I might grab that late.
Northbound Train
Footballguy
CiscoKid
Footballguy
I'll agree with the of the earlier posters that stated they do their own homework and are able to draft much better value in earlier drafts before things become public knowledge. Sure, there are risks, but the risks are (mostly) shared by all teams. I think the more informed player *still* will walk away with a much better team in an earlier draft than would have been possible in a later draft.I guess it really boils down to what kind of player the individual person is - I personally don't mind taking risk so long as I have a better chance of reward at the end. Back on topic, I think CW is intriguing. It'll be interesting to see how much he can do this year. I can't help to pull for a guy like him considering how much he's had to fight back from in his (short) career.
I totally disagree. Though different people have different preferences, I prefer drafting around the start of preseason, if not slightly before that time. The sharks can load up on Ray Rice and other such players that skyrocket in value once the practice games get going. Now I doubt I'll touch Rice as his price is too high. A few weeks ago, he was a massive steal.
nobody gives a ####e when people draft....let's talk about Caddy as I took him in like the 13 round. Is there any talk around Tampa that the dude has a chance to be a factor in the running game? We know it's all about RBBC there now...but are there any rumblings about him possibly getting increased carries?
I drafted Graham as my RB4, but thanks to some injuries he could get started at some point. Not sure if I want to count on him after reading a lot of this. Derrick Ward went undrafted in our 14 team league! Williams got drafted LATE. Might be a good pick by that owner.
I think I'll give it a week or two and see if the situation gets clearer before making a decision.
PS - almost exclusively a TD league FYI.
I think I'll give it a week or two and see if the situation gets clearer before making a decision.
PS - almost exclusively a TD league FYI.
Last edited by a moderator:
TitusIII
Footballguy
The Bucs would be wise to limit Carnell's touches to around 10-15 per game if he is healthy. Like others have said, untill Williams goes down for the year, stay away from the Bucs RB's. Trade for Derrick Ward around week 5 or 6, and then watch the talent that has been hiding behind Brandon Jacobs for the past three years shine...
I do believe Ward will put up #1/#2 RB stats once the Bucs realize giving him 20 touches per game is an excellent plan.
I do believe Ward will put up #1/#2 RB stats once the Bucs realize giving him 20 touches per game is an excellent plan.
I think this is the biggest thing that separates Caddy from the other 2 guys. Raheem knows Caddy gives the team an immediate boost of morale. No other player will get the crowd going like Caddy when he enters the game.Who would it not 'go well' with? CW is a fan favorite, and giving him the ball (with success) would be received very well locally.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Williams is the most talented of the 3 WHEN HEALTHY and it isn't close.
Last year's stats would prove your assertion wrong and it isn't close.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Too bad we score fantasy games by those damn lies, huh.
Derrick Ward has averaged more than 5 yards per carry in the NFL. Cadillac has averaged less than 4.
That's a very apples to oranges comparison and is actually pretty irrelevant. Ward spent the last few years playing with the best O-line in the NFL. Caddy spent most of his career with arguably the worst O-line in the NFL. Tampa's O-line has really just started to come around and they are still probably only a "B/B-" caliber O-line, although with all the youth they've assembled they have "A" upside.
Last edited by a moderator:
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Also, Mewelde Moore has a better career ypc than LT does. Clearly he is superior.
well, I think the argument that Caddy is the superior talent to Ward and it "isn't even close" is almost as ridiculous as this one.I agree with travdogg that the difference in offensive lines has made the comparison more difficult. Ward is no slouch though, and Caddy was not the game changing talent many expected him to be, even before he got injured.
two_dollars
Footballguy
really? He only played in 3 games as a rookie before his first major injury. His stat lines in those 3 games:27 - 148 - 1
24 - 128 - 1
37 - 158 - 0
It really is a shame he was injured so early in his career, the kid was all world talent out of college.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
Very little. There is too many good fantasy backs out there.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
Aside from the O-line difference (already highlighted) and the QB difference (wherein the NYG passing attack no doubt helped the running game wherein the Tampa passing game likely didn't), I'd point to the following...Carries per TD:Williams - 14 in 692 touches.Ward - 6 in 411 touches.Games with 20 or more touches: Williams - 14Ward - 4Scoring games (100 yards or 40 yards and a TD or 2 TDs)Williams - 12 in 38 gamesWard - 7 in 39 (did not count games when he was a returner only)Games averaging more then 4 YPC (included because a couple big games can throw things off; I'm looking for consistency)Williams - 16 in 38 gamesWard - 20 in 39 gamesWard clearly has been utilized more in the passing game and likely will continue to do so. But the notion that a superior career YPC somehow is the keystone to an argument that Williams is not the superior back is a little hollow. I'll revise my post: MY OPINION is that "when healthy, Williams is the most talented back and it isnt' close." When healthy he has shown to be a productive runner regardless of the Oline and QB play. He has shown the ability to gain yards and score. And he has shown the ability to post games that are useful for fantasy owners. Admittedly, Ward has been in a platoon situation a bit but that's what is likely to happen in TB this year. Perhaps Williams wears the defense down and Ward scores more points. Perhaps Ward spells Williams enough to keep Cadillac healthy and productive. I'm not sure how it will play out for fantasy owners. And while we are discussing, I wanted to point out the following (even though it isn't applicable to the question of "talent" as we've discussed):Williams ADP is SHOCKINGLY low. The only thing likely to keep him from 180 touches is injury, which is a valid concern. But his ADP is RB65 (ironically, that's where he finished last season). Using last year's finishing numbers, he would need about 50 fantasy points (400 yards and a couple TDs or 250 yards and 4 TDs, etc.) The ONLY way he misses that will be injury. Ward's ADP is RB25. To finish there he'd need about 140 points, which is about 1000 total yards and 6 touchdowns or so. The ONLY way I think he gets to those numbers is if Caddy gets hurt and/or Morris decides that his RBBC idea is bad and gives Ward the full load. I like both players. Ward's ADP is a little high to me, but I think both will be solid picks this year with Williams having the chance to offer exceptional value. I think as long as Williams is healthy then Graham will be a non-factor. (Now, if Williams goes out and tears a tendon an hour from now, everything above is null and void.)
Last edited by a moderator:
Judge Smails
Footballguy
As a Ward/Cadillac owner desperate for a #2, I'm begging that this is true..Aside from the O-line difference (already highlighted) and the QB difference (wherein the NYG passing attack no doubt helped the running game wherein the Tampa passing game likely didn't), I'd point to the following...Carries per TD:
Williams - 14 in 692 touches.
Ward - 6 in 411 touches.
Games with 20 or more touches:
Williams - 14
Ward - 4
Scoring games (100 yards or 40 yards and a TD or 2 TDs)
Williams - 12 in 38 games
Ward - 7 in 39 (did not count games when he was a returner only)
Games averaging more then 4 YPC (included because a couple big games can throw things off; I'm looking for consistency)
Williams - 16 in 38 games
Ward - 20 in 39 games
Ward clearly has been utilized more in the passing game and likely will continue to do so. But the notion that a superior career YPC somehow is the keystone to an argument that Williams is not the superior back is a little hollow.
I'll revise my post: MY OPINION is that "when healthy, Williams is the most talented back and it isnt' close." When healthy he has shown to be a productive runner regardless of the Oline and QB play. He has shown the ability to gain yards and score. And he has shown the ability to post games that are useful for fantasy owners. Admittedly, Ward has been in a platoon situation a bit but that's what is likely to happen in TB this year. Perhaps Williams wears the defense down and Ward scores more points. Perhaps Ward spells Williams enough to keep Cadillac healthy and productive. I'm not sure how it will play out for fantasy owners.
And while we are discussing, I wanted to point out the following (even though it isn't applicable to the question of "talent" as we've discussed):
Williams ADP is SHOCKINGLY low. The only thing likely to keep him from 180 touches is injury, which is a valid concern. But his ADP is RB65 (ironically, that's where he finished last season). Using last year's finishing numbers, he would need about 50 fantasy points (400 yards and a couple TDs or 250 yards and 4 TDs, etc.) The ONLY way he misses that will be injury. Ward's ADP is RB25. To finish there he'd need about 140 points, which is about 1000 total yards and 6 touchdowns or so. The ONLY way I think he gets to those numbers is if Caddy gets hurt and/or Morris decides that his RBBC idea is bad and gives Ward the full load.
I like both players. Ward's ADP is a little high to me, but I think both will be solid picks this year with Williams having the chance to offer exceptional value. I think as long as Williams is healthy then Graham will be a non-factor.
(Now, if Williams goes out and tears a tendon an hour from now, everything above is null and void.)
absolutely. those are 3 games everyone remembers when they thought he was going to be a superstar. but, I don't think the injury after those games was serious, was it? he was never as good in the game after that. 3 games is a pretty small sample size to think this guy was the second coming, were it not for injuries.EDIT: he only missed 2 games after being injured in week 4 of his rookie season. not exactly a "major injury". after returning, he finished the year pretty strong and carried the ball 20+ times in 5 of the last 6 games.Not disputing he had an amazing rookie season. But, the following year, is when I lost faith in the guy. 225 carries from scrimmage and he only managed 1 TD? Averaged 3.0 yards per carry on 1st down. Only got 4 carries from inside the opponent's 5 yard line and just 22 carries from inside the opponent's 20. From what I recall, that was a bad Bucs team so it wasn't all his fault. The line was bad and Gruden often gave up on the running game too early. But, people arguing that he was successful no matter what type of team/line he played with are conveniently leaving out that season, IMO.But, in general, the consensus on Caddy seems to be that he's a great runner but not a complete back. He isn't a good back in short yardage situations, isn't a reliable blocker or receiver so he doesn't normally see a lot of time on passing downs. Ward hasn't really had a chance to be a feature back yet and he may never get that chance, but I think he's a more valuable/versatile runner than Caddy right now.
Last edited by a moderator:
Just my opinion, and doesn't add anything to the debate here, but one of those games was against the Bills so I was watching & was truly impressed. He ran over and away from the Bills that day. Looked like ADP does now. Can't recall the injury - ankle or toe? Came back after a few games but has never approached those 1st 3 games.
I was at that game. What a completely miserable day. It was 100 degrees and humid and I don't think the Bills had a first down until the 3rd quarter. Caddy looked very good though. Meanwhile, McGahee finished with 34 yards on 13 carries.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
They had a grand total of 6, count them 6, rushing TDs that year. Alstott had 3 of them, Pittman, Sims and Williams had the other 3. I don't know that you can take a ton away from the paucity of TDs that year. The next season he had 3 in 54 carries before he went out for the year.
to clarify, I like Caddy and really liked him after his rookie season. I just don't know that the Caddy of today is anything like the Caddy from back then though. And, it looks like a full-blown committee anyway.
I agree that Ward's ADP is too high and Caddy's is probably too low. I'm not too excited about any of these guys fantasy prospects right now.
I agree that Ward's ADP is too high and Caddy's is probably too low. I'm not too excited about any of these guys fantasy prospects right now.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
By who's opinion? At Auburn, he usually saw the short yardage and goalline carries over Ronnie Brown because of his knack for finding room in the smallest of spaces and pushed very hard for the last few inches. He was a very willing and able pass blocker, and Gruden said he may have had the best hands in his draft class, regardless of position. The highlighted statement seems to be the opposite of everything I have come to know Caddy to be. He was THE complete back, without being physically dominant or a superior athlete. Ray Rice plus. Emmit Smith minus durability plus hands.Aaron Rudnicki said:
well, maybe I was being too harsh there. I was referring to that 1 TD in 225 carry sophomore NFL season. When given the ball inside the opponent's 5-yard line, it looks like he's run the ball 13 times for 4 TDs. It looks like he's been effective with limited goalline carries but hasn't gotten very many opportunities to really establish himself in that role yet.as for his hands, if Gruden loved him as a receiver you think he would have gotten more than 50 catches during his first two full seasons. although it wasn't unusual for a young player, Caddy was often replaced by Michael Pittman on passing downs during his first two years in the league. I'm just going based on what we've seen from him in the NFL thus far. He obviously hasn't shown much the past two years, so 2005 and 2006 are the best samples we have of his NFL ability.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
LHUCKS
Footballguy
My thoughts
1) Staying away from all...
2) Old Cadillac was eaily the most talented of the three, unfortunately we don't know if we have the old Cadillac.
3) Looking at Ward's stats with the Giants and comparing them to other players stats is nearly meaningless...gotta love the stathounds in this thread.
4) Graham is underrated, always has been.
1) Staying away from all...
2) Old Cadillac was eaily the most talented of the three, unfortunately we don't know if we have the old Cadillac.
3) Looking at Ward's stats with the Giants and comparing them to other players stats is nearly meaningless...gotta love the stathounds in this thread.
4) Graham is underrated, always has been.
Goat Herders
Footballguy
I received some flack here in the pool by saying that he had the best 6th sense (preciprocation of something of that ilk) of anyone in the league. I was saying that his balance/body-control, etc. were phenomenal and that he should excel in short-yardage as he did at AUburn. He had one carry against the Vols in the SEC title game that is among the most impressive I've ever seen on a 4th and 2.
David Dodds
Administrator
Do people really believe a RB can play well with herniated disks? This is a great feel good story. Caddy battles back and the team is inspired. But give this guy a real workload and we will see how playing on herniated disks works out. This is a CHRONIC condition. It isn't something he is going to heal from. I suspect the team will give him some carries, but whe it's all said and done Ernest Graham is the back to have in Tampa Bay this year.
DoubleG
Footballguy
True - but, unfortunately for him, he obviously is by his own coaches as well. If not, why would they go get Ward?
most teams in the league are using a committee approach at RB these days and Graham only played in 10 games last year while Caddy's health/durability is a complete unknown at this point.
Jewell
Footballguy
I'm not necessarily doubting you, but what are you basing your conclusion on? Graham getting the majority of TDs?
Caddy succumbing to injury?
Ward working exclusively within the 20s?
What?
he might be the best at itWard is a big boy that was trumped by Jacobs but he can pound it
Goat Herders
Footballguy
I've seen you point this out in a couple places and the only response I can think of is: the Bucs aren't acting like its a big deal. Maybe he breaks down quickly and retires due to pain, but so far all indications are that they are looking for him to be part of the offense.
Brock Middlebrook
Footballguy
so good info in this here thread...
