Is ESPN trying too hard? (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

In their ever trying way to be better then the NFL network...

Sep 26 2006 4:41PM

ESPN is now reporting that Warner will start this week. Rookie Matt Leinart will stay on the bench.

Fantasy Impact: Warner will be on a short leash, though, so you might want to go with better options until this situation gets straightened out.

I said preseason that any ESPN breaking news report needs to be taken with a grain of salt. They lost NFL Primetime in the old form...they got a bunk product in MNF and put a terrible booth together...awful!!!

They are slipping and they are trying to stay ahead of the NFL Network if they can but IMO they are failing. They were breaking the news on Maroney out the 1st week...that was wrong too. Really gotta be careful b4 you run to the WW if it's ESPN

 

[Limp Ditka]

Its out there already. Merged in with the AZ QB thread

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Its out there already. Merged in with the AZ QB thread

Got it Limp, I changed the title to what I really wanted to talk about...I don't care who starts for AZ honestly...have none of them on any of my rosters, just worked out that way...but ESPN is really getting old with their breaking news in the NFL

 

[diesel7982]

After all the contacts Jason Wood has made at ESPN, I think its really funny that ProFootballTalk is now a more legitimate news source than ESPN.

ESPN is just horrible. Thats all there is to it.

 

[AcousticNut]

When Mort said, "Denny Green wouldn't comment on his starting Quarterback, so we're going to go ahead and say that Leinart is getting the start....".... I about fell out of my chair. What the heck kind of reporting is that?

All of a sudden the fantasy sites are reporting that ESPN reports that Leinart will get the start based on, "Since this, we'll go ahead and say this (without any substantiation)"

Mort lost a ton of credibility last night.

 

[gman8343]

Didn't they report Ahman Green as out last weekend too for a while on Sunday morning?

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

The sad thing for me is that unless I get Huard off the WW tonight I will be starting Leinart anyways and likely taking a zero from my QB.

Didn't they report Ahman Green as out last weekend too for a while on Sunday morning?

I believe so. And I think he said bench Larry Johnson too.

 

[Despyzer]

The sad thing for me is that unless I get Huard off the WW tonight I will be starting Leinart anyways and likely taking a zero from my QB.

Didn't they report Ahman Green as out last weekend too for a while on Sunday morning?

I believe so. And I think he said bench Larry Johnson too.

He also said that you could bank on Mike Bell being Shanny's guy all year and that Tatum would see nothing more than spot duty.

 

[Joe Bryant]

In their ever trying way to be better then the NFL network...Sep 26 2006 4:41PM ESPN is now reporting that Warner will start this week. Rookie Matt Leinart will stay on the bench. Fantasy Impact: Warner will be on a short leash, though, so you might want to go with better options until this situation gets straightened out.I said preseason that any ESPN breaking news report needs to be taken with a grain of salt. They lost NFL Primetime in the old form...they got a bunk product in MNF and put a terrible booth together...awful!!!They are slipping and they are trying to stay ahead of the NFL Network if they can but IMO they are failing. They were breaking the news on Maroney out the 1st week...that was wrong too. Really gotta be careful b4 you run to the WW if it's ESPN

Hi MOP,They're on top so they're the target for everyone. I take plenty of my own shots at them.But in reality, I think they're as good as ever. Maybe better. They're a juggernaut with unbelievable resources and extremely talented people in just about every area.NFL Network has definitely changed the game for them with Football. I do think you're seeing both sides go out further on a limb. You saw NFL Network do it battling Kiper with Mayocks stuff on Jay Cutler being the best QB etc.But overall, it's my opinion they're outstanding.Morts story last night on Warner is an example we're all under for rushing to get the story. Everyone wants to be first. I have half a dozen emails in my mailbox cursing me for sending the Shaun Alexander news 15 minutes later than they wanted it. That's just life. And the result is you have folks like Mort pushing a little harder and going with a story like the Warner thing where in years past he would have waited until today when he was sure.It's safer that way. But I like the fact they're pushing a little harder. It puts the onus on the reader to understand what is being said. They were very clear yesterday that this wasn't the official word. They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen. I like that. J

 

[GoFishTN]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

 

[BrentBlack]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

 

[Limp Ditka]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

If Mort has sources he trusts within the team and reports what they're telling him, is that news? J

 

[BrentBlack]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

If Mort has sources he trusts within the team and reports what they're telling him, is that news? J

It was clear that he had no info from a team source, just that Green refused to discuss the situation Monday afternoon so he drew a conclusion. And if it were info from a team source but still unconfirmed it needs to be reported that way.

 

[FFdork]

In addition to what Joe said, from what I understand of the situation, I don't thing Mort was wrong. It sounds like Green really has been agonizing over this. It sounds like he was leaning one way Monday (and someone close to him got word to Mort) and then after sleeping on it Green reversed field.

If not for Mort, we wouldn't have known how close Lienert is to starting. Before yesterday, I was thinking he'd probably be in there once it was clear AZ wasn't making the playoffs (or when Kurt got injured, whichever came first). Now we know that Warner probaby only has one game to make a statement. As a result, I've got a WW claim in on Leinert in 2 short roster leagues where he was still available.

 

[majstro]

I appreciate Joe's comments and do agree that they are the best in the business. Unfortunately it's primarily because they are the 800-pound gorilla. What bothers me is why they feel so compelled to rush a story. If Dennis Green says that he will announce his starter on Tuesday, does Mort need to shake his magic 8-ball on Monday? Who needed this information on Monday? Certainly not gamblers, fantasy football players or other NFL teams. Tuesday would have been just fine for all three of these groups.

By trying to make a name for himself again by making this announcement, all Mort did was cry wolf yet again and further lose credibility.

I think ESPN's biggest crime has been their shift from interpreting news to trying to make news. It's almost as if they are trying to be bigger than the sports they cover.

 

[Joe Bryant]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

If Mort has sources he trusts within the team and reports what they're telling him, is that news? J

It was clear that he had no info from a team source, just that Green refused to discuss the situation Monday afternoon so he drew a conclusion. And if it were info from a team source but still unconfirmed it needs to be reported that way.

From ESPN last night

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals."I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?J

 

[BrentBlack]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

If Mort has sources he trusts within the team and reports what they're telling him, is that news? J

It was clear that he had no info from a team source, just that Green refused to discuss the situation Monday afternoon so he drew a conclusion. And if it were info from a team source but still unconfirmed it needs to be reported that way.

From ESPN last night

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals."I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?J

Without question that is what he was doing. The Cards took one of the top QB's in the draft, have a QB that is well over 30 and has been turning the ball over at an alarming clip as usual. It was an educated guess, but still a guess. ESPN has "broken" 3 major football stories in the last week. The Caddy one, the Westbrook one, and now the Warner one. Do you really believe that these were all from team sources and just happened to be false info?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I appreciate Joe's comments and do agree that they are the best in the business. Unfortunately it's primarily because they are the 800-pound gorilla. What bothers me is why they feel so compelled to rush a story. If Dennis Green says that he will announce his starter on Tuesday, does Mort need to shake his magic 8-ball on Monday? Who needed this information on Monday? Certainly not gamblers, fantasy football players or other NFL teams. Tuesday would have been just fine for all three of these groups.By trying to make a name for himself again by making this announcement, all Mort did was cry wolf yet again and further lose credibility. I think ESPN's biggest crime has been their shift from interpreting news to trying to make news. It's almost as if they are trying to be bigger than the sports they cover.

Hi Maj,In my opinion, it's guys like us that are causing the push. We want more and more information sooner and sooner. You should see my email box if we're an hour late on Tuesday posting website content. People want stuff right now. I understand that.Truth be told, if Matt Leinart were available, the guy that grabs him first has a real advantage over the guy that waits until Green says something. That's why there is pressure for guys like Mort (and anyone else) to push for the info first. It's a balance. You want to be right and first. J

 

[Joe Bryant]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

If Mort has sources he trusts within the team and reports what they're telling him, is that news? J

It was clear that he had no info from a team source, just that Green refused to discuss the situation Monday afternoon so he drew a conclusion. And if it were info from a team source but still unconfirmed it needs to be reported that way.

From ESPN last night

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals."I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?J

Without question that is what he was doing. The Cards took one of the top QB's in the draft, have a QB that is well over 30 and has been turning the ball over at an alarming clip as usual. It was an educated guess, but still a guess. ESPN has "broken" 3 major football stories in the last week. The Caddy one, the Westbrook one, and now the Warner one. Do you really believe that these were all from team sources and just happened to be false info?

Wow. I couldn't disagree more. I do not believe Mortensen is looking us in the eye and lying about a fake source when tells the audience. I've sat next to him several years ago while he dialed Ron Wolfe (in Green Bay at the time) on speed dial to ask him about how a player is looking that day. I don't think he's a liar. J

 

[BrentBlack]

They were telling folks what they thought was going to happen.

Looks like they've joined the rest of the news media.

Hi gofish,Would you rather their insider guys never meake a prediction until they have official word from the team?I would not.J

Making a prediction is fine. Reporting it as news is the problem.

If Mort has sources he trusts within the team and reports what they're telling him, is that news? J

It was clear that he had no info from a team source, just that Green refused to discuss the situation Monday afternoon so he drew a conclusion. And if it were info from a team source but still unconfirmed it needs to be reported that way.

From ESPN last night

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals."I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?J

Without question that is what he was doing. The Cards took one of the top QB's in the draft, have a QB that is well over 30 and has been turning the ball over at an alarming clip as usual. It was an educated guess, but still a guess. ESPN has "broken" 3 major football stories in the last week. The Caddy one, the Westbrook one, and now the Warner one. Do you really believe that these were all from team sources and just happened to be false info?

Wow. I couldn't disagree more. I do not believe Mortensen is looking us in the eye and lying about a fake source when tells the audience. I've sat next to him several years ago while he dialed Ron Wolfe (in Green Bay at the time) on speed dial to ask him about how a player is looking that day. I don't think he's a liar. J

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

 

[Joe Bryant]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

 

[BrentBlack]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

I didn't say he was lying. He was speculating and reporting it as news (aka making an educated guess). There is a big difference. I guess we'll agree to disagree here and wait for the next fake ESPN "news" report.

 

[majstro]

I appreciate Joe's comments and do agree that they are the best in the business. Unfortunately it's primarily because they are the 800-pound gorilla. What bothers me is why they feel so compelled to rush a story. If Dennis Green says that he will announce his starter on Tuesday, does Mort need to shake his magic 8-ball on Monday? Who needed this information on Monday? Certainly not gamblers, fantasy football players or other NFL teams. Tuesday would have been just fine for all three of these groups.By trying to make a name for himself again by making this announcement, all Mort did was cry wolf yet again and further lose credibility. I think ESPN's biggest crime has been their shift from interpreting news to trying to make news. It's almost as if they are trying to be bigger than the sports they cover.

Hi Maj,In my opinion, it's guys like us that are causing the push. We want more and more information sooner and sooner. You should see my email box if we're an hour late on Tuesday posting website content. People want stuff right now. I understand that.Truth be told, if Matt Leinart were available, the guy that grabs him first has a real advantage over the guy that waits until Green says something. That's why there is pressure for guys like Mort (and anyone else) to push for the info first. It's a balance. You want to be right and first. J

Joe - I agree that we certainly drive the process. GM's, coaches and players are all human and you have to think that the media helps drive certain decisions. I'm not saying it happens a lot, but it probably happens more than we think. Look at how many high draft picks start or stick around just because they were a high draft pick and the organization does not want to admit a mistake. Those are the obvious ones.If Dennis Green had announced Leinart as the starter today, would that have made his organization look bad since there was a leak? If he was truly undecided, could Mort's report pushed him to Warner to show everyone that he is in charge of his team and that the media has no insight or bearing on his decisions? The gut reaction is to say that the organization will always do what is in the best interest of the organization and not what the media or fans think or want. I'm not completely sold that is always the case. However, I'm not saying that it definitely happened here either.

 

[Joe Bryant]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

I didn't say he was lying. He was speculating and reporting it as news (aka making an educated guess). There is a big difference. I guess we'll agree to disagree here and wait for the next fake ESPN "news" report.

I asked, "You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?"

You answered

Without question that is what he was doing.

In my neighborhood, fabricating stories from a phantom team source = lying.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

I appreciate Joe's comments and do agree that they are the best in the business. Unfortunately it's primarily because they are the 800-pound gorilla. What bothers me is why they feel so compelled to rush a story. If Dennis Green says that he will announce his starter on Tuesday, does Mort need to shake his magic 8-ball on Monday? Who needed this information on Monday? Certainly not gamblers, fantasy football players or other NFL teams. Tuesday would have been just fine for all three of these groups.By trying to make a name for himself again by making this announcement, all Mort did was cry wolf yet again and further lose credibility. I think ESPN's biggest crime has been their shift from interpreting news to trying to make news. It's almost as if they are trying to be bigger than the sports they cover.

Hi Maj,In my opinion, it's guys like us that are causing the push. We want more and more information sooner and sooner. You should see my email box if we're an hour late on Tuesday posting website content. People want stuff right now. I understand that.Truth be told, if Matt Leinart were available, the guy that grabs him first has a real advantage over the guy that waits until Green says something. That's why there is pressure for guys like Mort (and anyone else) to push for the info first. It's a balance. You want to be right and first. J

Joe - I agree that we certainly drive the process. GM's, coaches and players are all human and you have to think that the media helps drive certain decisions. I'm not saying it happens a lot, but it probably happens more than we think. Look at how many high draft picks start or stick around just because they were a high draft pick and the organization does not want to admit a mistake. Those are the obvious ones.If Dennis Green had announced Leinart as the starter today, would that have made his organization look bad since there was a leak? If he was truly undecided, could Mort's report pushed him to Warner to show everyone that he is in charge of his team and that the media has no insight or bearing on his decisions? The gut reaction is to say that the organization will always do what is in the best interest of the organization and not what the media or fans think or want. I'm not completely sold that is always the case. However, I'm not saying that it definitely happened here either.

Hi Maj,Excellent points.J

 

[T Man]

Isn't Denny Green's son Jeremy an employee of ESPN??? I would venture a guess that Mort had a conversation with Jeremy before the story ran.

Just because Green would not comment on the record does not mean that he or someone in the organization did not say they were going with Leinart this week.

Green could have been planning this to light a fire under Warner (while at the same time telling Warner it was all ESPN hype)

OR

He really could have just changed his mind.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

It's not limited to football either....

Didn't Tim Keurchen (sp?) have Soriano going to the White Sox or something?

....and wasn't Roger Clemens about to join Boston just prior to the trade deadline?

 

[BrentBlack]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

I didn't say he was lying. He was speculating and reporting it as news (aka making an educated guess). There is a big difference. I guess we'll agree to disagree here and wait for the next fake ESPN "news" report.

I asked, "You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?"

You answered

Without question that is what he was doing.

In my neighborhood, fabricating stories from a phantom team source = lying.J

I realize that you didn't actually hear him on the air last night giving us this valuable piece of info which is why you continue to post the same track covering espn.com arcticle that was posted an hour after the "news" was broken so I think we're both spinning our wheels here. Like I said, we'll agree to disagree until the next fake report comes from them.

 

[Joe Bryant]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

I didn't say he was lying. He was speculating and reporting it as news (aka making an educated guess). There is a big difference. I guess we'll agree to disagree here and wait for the next fake ESPN "news" report.

I asked, "You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?"

You answered

Without question that is what he was doing.

In my neighborhood, fabricating stories from a phantom team source = lying.J

I realize that you didn't actually hear him on the air last night giving us this valuable piece of info which is why you continue to post the same track covering espn.com arcticle that was posted an hour after the "news" was broken so I think we're both spinning our wheels here. Like I said, we'll agree to disagree until the next fake report comes from them.

I've only watched it twice on Tivo today after seeing it yesterday. J

 

[BrentBlack]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

I didn't say he was lying. He was speculating and reporting it as news (aka making an educated guess). There is a big difference. I guess we'll agree to disagree here and wait for the next fake ESPN "news" report.

I asked, "You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?"

You answered

Without question that is what he was doing.

In my neighborhood, fabricating stories from a phantom team source = lying.J

I realize that you didn't actually hear him on the air last night giving us this valuable piece of info which is why you continue to post the same track covering espn.com arcticle that was posted an hour after the "news" was broken so I think we're both spinning our wheels here. Like I said, we'll agree to disagree until the next fake report comes from them.

I've only watched it twice on Tivo today after seeing it yesterday. J

Then why on earth are we even having this discussion? If it isn't clear that it was speculation at that time then I really don't know what else to say.

Have a good week.

BB

 

[Joe Bryant]

He never said it was from a source. The quote was "Green will not discuss this situation until Tuesday, so I am going to go ahead and report that Leinart is going to start on Sunday". Nothing was EVER said about a source until the espn.com report an hour later.

The ESPN story I'm talking about is very clear and ESPN said he got it from a team source:

Barring a change of heart overnight, the Arizona Cardinals are expected to start Matt Leinart Sunday against the Falcons in Atlanta, team sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

Arizona coach Dennis Green was noncommittal in Monday's news conference about whether Kurt Warner would continue to start for the Cardinals.

"I don't talk personnel on Monday," Green said. "We'll start looking at things and have a staff meeting and take it from there."

But the sources said that Warner's turnovers, which have cost the Cardinals, has changed Green's mind about how soon he'll play Leinart.

Who knows, maybe you're right and Mortensen is just lying. I don't think he is.J

I didn't say he was lying. He was speculating and reporting it as news (aka making an educated guess). There is a big difference. I guess we'll agree to disagree here and wait for the next fake ESPN "news" report.

I asked, "You really think Mortensen is fabricating stories from a phantom "team source" ?"

You answered

Without question that is what he was doing.

In my neighborhood, fabricating stories from a phantom team source = lying.J

I realize that you didn't actually hear him on the air last night giving us this valuable piece of info which is why you continue to post the same track covering espn.com arcticle that was posted an hour after the "news" was broken so I think we're both spinning our wheels here. Like I said, we'll agree to disagree until the next fake report comes from them.

I've only watched it twice on Tivo today after seeing it yesterday. J

Then why on earth are we even having this discussion? If it isn't clear that it was speculation at that time then I really don't know what else to say.

Have a good week.

BB

I think it's because you keep saying he's lying and making stuff up and I disagree. But that's cool.J

 

[majstro]

I appreciate Joe's comments and do agree that they are the best in the business. Unfortunately it's primarily because they are the 800-pound gorilla. What bothers me is why they feel so compelled to rush a story. If Dennis Green says that he will announce his starter on Tuesday, does Mort need to shake his magic 8-ball on Monday? Who needed this information on Monday? Certainly not gamblers, fantasy football players or other NFL teams. Tuesday would have been just fine for all three of these groups.By trying to make a name for himself again by making this announcement, all Mort did was cry wolf yet again and further lose credibility. I think ESPN's biggest crime has been their shift from interpreting news to trying to make news. It's almost as if they are trying to be bigger than the sports they cover.

Hi Maj,In my opinion, it's guys like us that are causing the push. We want more and more information sooner and sooner. You should see my email box if we're an hour late on Tuesday posting website content. People want stuff right now. I understand that.Truth be told, if Matt Leinart were available, the guy that grabs him first has a real advantage over the guy that waits until Green says something. That's why there is pressure for guys like Mort (and anyone else) to push for the info first. It's a balance. You want to be right and first. J

Joe - I agree that we certainly drive the process. GM's, coaches and players are all human and you have to think that the media helps drive certain decisions. I'm not saying it happens a lot, but it probably happens more than we think. Look at how many high draft picks start or stick around just because they were a high draft pick and the organization does not want to admit a mistake. Those are the obvious ones.If Dennis Green had announced Leinart as the starter today, would that have made his organization look bad since there was a leak? If he was truly undecided, could Mort's report pushed him to Warner to show everyone that he is in charge of his team and that the media has no insight or bearing on his decisions? The gut reaction is to say that the organization will always do what is in the best interest of the organization and not what the media or fans think or want. I'm not completely sold that is always the case. However, I'm not saying that it definitely happened here either.

Hi Maj,Excellent points.J

Kind of unfortunate, but I think the media can play a part in making decisions. For an example, let's look at the Houston Texans 2006 draft (assuming Charley Casserly stayed):Assume they draft Reggie Bush and he is a bust...then everyone was wrong, including media and fans, and the front office probably stays.Assume they draft Mario Williams and he is a bust...then only the Texans were wrong and there are calls for heads immediately, ala Detroit and Matt Millen.The only difference between these two scenarios was the media's perception of what the Texans should do. Right or wrong, the media drives the perception of most fans. From a job security standpoint, can a GM honestly make a decision without considering the media's and fan's perception of that decision? If Charley Casserly were staying in Houston, would he have still taken Mario Williams?

 

[Chaos Commish]

I disagree rather strongly with many of the sentiments in this thread. My take from the poll on starting Leinart.

This is a sad turn of events for ESPN and Mort has lost credibility with me. I know some will say his credibility was already long gone, and I agree things have been deteriorating at ESPN for awhile, but this seemed like the height of fake news from the minute he reported it. It's been described by others, and if you didn't see it, it went like this."Denny Green says he's undecided about his starters this week. But we're going to go ahead and call it. Matt Leinart will start at QB this week for the Cardinals." That may not be the exact quote, but it's close enough. Importantly was the knowing pause between fact and fiction from Mort. It was as if he knew darn well he was making up the news, and he also didn't seem excited to do it. I would guess he had been instructed to do it. Which truly sucks. If he did it on his own, just to try and scoop a possible story with a wild guess, well that's pretty rotten reporting. If he did it as a subordinate taking orders, then shame on him for being gutless and having zero journalistic integrity.Making matters worse is the whole network seemed to be laying in the weeds with this breaking story. It was mentioned during the game. It was treated as fact at halftime by other reporters and then yet again by others late night doing an NFL show. It really sucked that they tried to pull this off and I wonder if they believed they could drive the news. Very very stupid if so.

 

[Family Matters]

I appreciate Joe's comments and do agree that they are the best in the business. Unfortunately it's primarily because they are the 800-pound gorilla. What bothers me is why they feel so compelled to rush a story. If Dennis Green says that he will announce his starter on Tuesday, does Mort need to shake his magic 8-ball on Monday? Who needed this information on Monday? Certainly not gamblers, fantasy football players or other NFL teams. Tuesday would have been just fine for all three of these groups.

By trying to make a name for himself again by making this announcement, all Mort did was cry wolf yet again and further lose credibility.

I think ESPN's biggest crime has been their shift from interpreting news to trying to make news. It's almost as if they are trying to be bigger than the sports they cover.

Hi Maj,In my opinion, it's guys like us that are causing the push. We want more and more information sooner and sooner. You should see my email box if we're an hour late on Tuesday posting website content. People want stuff right now. I understand that.

Truth be told, if Matt Leinart were available, the guy that grabs him first has a real advantage over the guy that waits until Green says something. That's why there is pressure for guys like Mort (and anyone else) to push for the info first. It's a balance. You want to be right and first.

J

I apologize for the long response but I want discuss this cause and effect and some other issues a little more. When I read this I think of the defense lawyer stating "it's not my client's fault". "Everyone else is to blame for his bad decision making because they expected too much from him".The reality is ESPN is a business and they have share holders (Disney) and heavy competition. So there is clearly pressure to perfomr. To perform at a level that separates them from the rest. But it appears they are taking journalistic liberties to a level just short of creative New York Times reproting.

To excuse anyone from making false or lisleading statements doesn't fly IMO. They know what's at stake. By taking advantadge of a MNF game with a national audience tuning in to see how the fans respond to getting the NFL back, they advantadge of us all and decided this a forum whereby we can separate ourselves by being the first to breal this story. Quoting "unnammed team sources" is noting more than CYA.

When you consider some of the other issues mentioned in this thread and remember the BS article from Clarett by running a story he himself stated to Tom Friend was untruthful (as he just wanted to get back at OSU)and then ESPN ran it anyway in an effort to bring down the big university for cheating. Clearly we now know the truth but ESPN had nothing more than Clarett to go on and even he stated is was lies. And yet they ran it anyway and enjoyed a ratings boost through the bowl games.

So at the end of the day, ESPN is not a source that reports news but moreso a business that publishes opinions about sports news. They try to take any news/events or comments that they feel will help their business and run with it.

It's a business and their sharholders demand ratings. I doubt they much care if Mort had a source or not. He was doing his job.

As for Joe's comment, I still agree and feel they are better today than ever. Unfortunately, we have to take the good with the bad.

My last point, as readers/listeners/viewers, we are responsible for verifying and checking the facts. The MB is a great place for clarifying things and debating on what if any action is required for our purposes. Assumming that what we read/hear is fact is naive. It's our responsibility.

 

[Sopranos]

Like i said, although it was deleted If you know where to get your news,you wouldnt have believed it anyway

 

[JMJ]

Joe, no offense but do you think the fact that Footballguys.com now has a column in ESPN the magazine is in any way clouding your judgement?

ESPN is really becoming bush league and fast. Take espn.com for example. Do ANY of you ever go to espn.com for advice or insight on ANYTHING? Its a joke.

 

[jogima]

ESPN makes news....this is the only fact. They have become a soap opera and it's heinous. Disney, ABC, ESPN....it's an agenda. Yes, fans push for info...but they don't push for making stories, they want facts. IF Arizona is considering a switch to Leinart, that should be reported. IF Arizona is very unhappy with Warner's performance, that should be reported...but until someone from the team says so, sources be damned, the facts need to be reported. So a T.O. thread, reporting EXACTLY what Dallas local news is reporting gets deleted, and yet an embelished story on ESPN stays on this board.

I love this place and think it's awesome, but when someone defends ESPN when it is clear they have underlying agendas, and ESPN basically admits these agendas with their actions, there is something wrong.

 

[massraider]

ESPN makes news....this is the only fact.

I agree with this. I have no problem with mort making a prediction based on Green's waffling. That's fine, and I want his best guess.But when it's the top story on the NFL page on ESPN, well, then it's not a guess, it's going to get taken as fact.Here's a fact: If Pro Football Talk had done this exact same thing, they woulda got creamed. Absolutely creamed. Why are they held to a higher standard than ESPN?

 

[gregjcross]

The standard they are held to, being reporters and not "analysts," is having a SOURCE (or not having one). if they have a source, that is what they go on, if not, they have no story and won't print one. Every piece of info is either "accordiing to" or seen happening on the field.It would be a lot cleaner if someone like Dennis Green was the source, in this case he wasnt, therefore, as readers we should see that.

ESPN makes news....this is the only fact.

I agree with this. I have no problem with mort making a prediction based on Green's waffling. That's fine, and I want his best guess.But when it's the top story on the NFL page on ESPN, well, then it's not a guess, it's going to get taken as fact.Here's a fact: If Pro Football Talk had done this exact same thing, they woulda got creamed. Absolutely creamed. Why are they held to a higher standard than ESPN?

 

[BrentBlack]

Joe, no offense but do you think the fact that Footballguys.com now has a column in ESPN the magazine is in any way clouding your judgement?

Well this certainly clears things up for me. Thanks.BB

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Joe, no offense but do you think the fact that Footballguys.com now has a column in ESPN the magazine is in any way clouding your judgement?ESPN is really becoming bush league and fast. Take espn.com for example. Do ANY of you ever go to espn.com for advice or insight on ANYTHING? Its a joke.

That's funny because I rarely pull up ESPN, I never buy the magazine, never buy any preseason mags they have a hand in, almost never tune into their radio shows during the day...Cowherd a little but I prefer the Sporting News Radio...but I think it's preference really.I got turned off of Sportscenter a long time ago...the Craig Kilborns, Olbermans, and the like that were using ESPN as stepping stones for their careers...I just have not dug them in awhile. They smashed CNNSI when they tried to get something going...with the NFL Network, what do I need ESPN for? Baseball?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

When Mort said, "Denny Green wouldn't comment on his starting Quarterback, so we're going to go ahead and say that Leinart is getting the start....".... I about fell out of my chair. What the heck kind of reporting is that?All of a sudden the fantasy sites are reporting that ESPN reports that Leinart will get the start based on, "Since this, we'll go ahead and say this (without any substantiation)" Mort lost a ton of credibility last night.

Mort had some credibility? What a buffoon.ESPN sucks, and has for quite a while. Mort sucks, and has for quite a while.Water is wet. Film at 11.

IF Arizona is considering a switch to Leinart, that should be reported. IF Arizona is very unhappy with Warner's performance, that should be reported...but until someone from the team says so, sources be damned, the facts need to be reported. So a T.O. thread, reporting EXACTLY what Dallas local news is reporting gets deleted, and yet an embelished story on ESPN stays on this board.

Very

 

[2short13]

Totally agree MOP. ESPN is quickly losing my interest. I agree with Joe, they are right now the best, but I can see a time where someone comes along with a better product a starts to catch up to them. They need to get back to what they do, report the news and quit clowning around. They remind of MTV in the early days where they played videos all day and when they first started EVERYONE watched 'em. Then as they got older started all those crap shows and before you know it, no VIDEOS and nobody watching.

I spend alot of time listening to talk radio and ESPN is getting worse and worse. Definitely, COWHERD is the best but can't listen to two seconds of Dan Patrick or the rest of em.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Octagon]

In my neighborhood, fabricating stories from a phantom team source = lying.J

I'm actually scared to talk about how it would look in my neighborhood.

 

[sjdogs]

great post, read phil mushnik on this subject . he reems them weekly

 

[bjabrad]

The problem with Mortenson's thinly veiled opinion is that he didn't say "I think it's going to be Leinert" on TV, he said "Green didn't come out strongly for Warner so it's going to be Leinert" Mortenson never said it was his opinion and only later from espn.com do you see a writer attribute Mortenson to having a source. These things then get picked up as fact in our mass media who are using one bad opinion to report as fact "Warner benched, Leinert starting" and these second and third hand media outlets like your local paper, TV and radio legitimize something that was spoken in the heat of the moment by a reporter. I don't think Mortenson was lying but I do think he was reporting his hunch without attributing it as such and I can understand the pressure on him to do it. But he can't do it and call himself a journalist. At that point he's an entertainer.

You guys who are don't think that somebody can be objective because they write a column for espn are the same idiots that think that all referees are on the take and that every game is fixed. Go watch some more X-Files, prepare for the end of the world and quit tarnishing people without giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Peace, Love, Out!

 

[Rooster]

Here's the deal. Watching Mort report it, it was clearly speculation. However, he didn't use speculative words he said something along the lines of "Green won't commit to Warner, so we will report that Leinart will start." Not only that, but ESPN and other media outlets start running headlines "ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports Leinart will start." Shortly after, we start seeing the makings of a backpedaling and he starts mentioning sources by saying "unless the team has a change of heart." If he says, "We're hearing rumblings from within the organization that Leinart may take over the starting job" it's entirely different for me. The fact is on that initial report he never mentioned any team sources.

Having read the article posted here on the messageboard earlier with Denny Green's actual comments, I thought the speculation about Leinart was unfounded and a bit off base. I think that they were twisting Green's words a little too much, but nonetheless they didn't say that Leinart WILL start.

My problem with this incident is that opinion was reported as fact. "We will report that Leinart will start" is not speculative and they knew others would report it as fact (ESPN did as well). The "team sources" didn't come out until later and the "team sources" were brought up later in the context of giving them an out. It's like they did this, realized that they were going to be wrong, and then came up with team sources to cover thier hides. Joe knows Mort, so he gives him the benefit of the doubt. I don't and the circumstances seem fishy enough to me that I'm going to assume that the "sources" were fabricated after the fact (Why in the world would he not mention the sources in the initial report?). As an average viewer, I lost a lot of respect and trust for ESPN/Mort yesterday. You can only do that so many times before what you say becomes worthless.

 

[Shiggy Shaol]

great post, read phil mushnik on this subject . he reems them weekly

Love reading Mushnick. He's so bitter towards all media outlets but he's normally right on target. Sorry for the tangent.