Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Just get it over with and ask me to the prom.
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Is Flacco the long term answer for Ravens? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Goldalene
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FavreCo
Footballguy
He's not great. He needs a strong D to help out when he throws ####ty passes like that last INT. He's middle of the pack. Sometimes he sucks really bad. Then he can put up a huge game.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Word is you're a biter, and you obviously don't put out.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Maybe I have an irrational dislike of Flacco, I dunno. Let me ask Ravens fans.
Does this guy inspire ANY confidence whatsoever?
I think I'll have sex with Jessica Alba before Flacco takes the Ravens to the Super Bowl.
Does this guy inspire ANY confidence whatsoever?
I think I'll have sex with Jessica Alba before Flacco takes the Ravens to the Super Bowl.
I'll take a shot at that, RN. I am very comfortable with Flacco as the Ravens qb. He is more than a game manager and has plenty of talent and ability to take over games if needed. He does have flaws, however, so he is not in the elite tier of qb's but more likely a 10-15 type of guy. I see his ceiling as Eli Manning and his floor as thisd season. My opinion is Flacco is hurt just as much by o-line issues and perplexing game planning/play calling as by his own deficiencies.
Barring further setbakcs I would be comfortable with Flacco as qb for the next decade.
Barring further setbakcs I would be comfortable with Flacco as qb for the next decade.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Very well then. As long as you guys are pleased with him.
Cecil_Pooples
Footballguy
I think some expected him to progress to a Big Ben level (where he could put offense on his arm/leadership as needed). He simply hasn't yet.
He's just been a game manager (perhaps closer to Kerry Collins) than Ben.
Though the door is closing IMO (on the dominance of the Raven D to carry the squad), I certainly think it's too early to give up on him. Not someone I'd give a huge extension to, but I'd give him another year or two.
He's just been a game manager (perhaps closer to Kerry Collins) than Ben.
Though the door is closing IMO (on the dominance of the Raven D to carry the squad), I certainly think it's too early to give up on him. Not someone I'd give a huge extension to, but I'd give him another year or two.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Maybe they could trade him for Yates. But why would Houston ever do that?
Brown Juice
Footballguy
Flacco and Sanchez are in the same category. Garbage.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I'm sure he'll match Brady score for score.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
63?guess it depends on how many Brady scores against the Ravens dee
23?63?guess it depends on how many Brady scores against the Ravens dee
Agree with stringing up Cameron, disagree re: Flacco. The o-line has made it imposssible for Flacco to setup for any kind of throw over 10 yds and they no longer employ a seven step drop due to the edge rush making it to the spot so Flacco is kinda stuck in the middle of the pocket trying to mak a read before being battered. His mobilty is as a slider not a scrambler so he Needs pocket protection, ala Brady. I'd like to see the Ravens get line help next year and then evaluate Flacco further.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Another franchise killer in the vein of Jason Campbell. Just good enough to not pull you down, drafted just high enough to make his team keep him around hoping he develops. Never good enough to consistently put the team on his shoulders to win a game.
This team is ****ed when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis retire. Ray Rice will slow down in a couple years, Boldin will be close to done, their two HOF defenders will retire, and Flacco isn't good enough to elevate his offense.
This team is ****ed when Ed Reed and Ray Lewis retire. Ray Rice will slow down in a couple years, Boldin will be close to done, their two HOF defenders will retire, and Flacco isn't good enough to elevate his offense.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Maybe Reed, Lewis, and Johnson are on their way out, but the Raven's D has been without the first two off and on for several seasons now. We have no idea about the impact of missing Johnson.'Cecil_Pooples said:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I posted this in the gambling thread and I really need an answer.
4th & goal from the 1 foot line. Flacco is, like, 8 feet tall. Is he REALLY not athletic enough to take the snap and reach the ball over the goal line? If not, that's disgraceful.
4th & goal from the 1 foot line. Flacco is, like, 8 feet tall. Is he REALLY not athletic enough to take the snap and reach the ball over the goal line? If not, that's disgraceful.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
He's not actually 8 ft tall. HTH.
The_Man
Footballguy
People are crazy. Flacco is 25 years old. He's now 5-3 in the playoffs and in the AFC Championship game for the second time in four years. Is he one of the best QBs in the NFL? Clearly not. But is he in the top half of QBs in the NFL? Yes. And where are the Ravens going to get someone better? They pick 26th or later in the draft every year. They have a ton of salary cap tied up in guys like Ngata, Suggs, and (soon) Rice, not to mention Lewis and Reed. Say they cut him after the season -- who's their QB then? Leinart?
He made no mistakes today vs. the #3 defense in the NFL. He was sacked 5 times, often by a 4-man rush that left his WRs covered even as he was getting pressure. That's the 12th game he's played this season vs. Top 10 defenses and he's 10-2. Next week will be interesting - for one of the few times all year, he's playing a crap defense. Can he light it up? I don't know. But I do know that even if he doesn't, it's not like there's some guy waiting out there for the Ravens to pick up who's going to be better.
He made no mistakes today vs. the #3 defense in the NFL. He was sacked 5 times, often by a 4-man rush that left his WRs covered even as he was getting pressure. That's the 12th game he's played this season vs. Top 10 defenses and he's 10-2. Next week will be interesting - for one of the few times all year, he's playing a crap defense. Can he light it up? I don't know. But I do know that even if he doesn't, it's not like there's some guy waiting out there for the Ravens to pick up who's going to be better.
Cecil_Pooples
Footballguy
He actually turns 27 tomorrow.I agree it's too early to bail on him...they are going to the AFC championship after all. I think many expected him to progress more already (vs. regress). In a league lacking starting QBs, Flacco is going to be starting for the next few years.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
'Cecil_Pooples said:
I have seen Flacco look great and other times he is seemingly clueless but overall he usually does enough to win games. If the Ravens defense can keep Brady off the field then Flacco can manage the game to a victory against a very suspect Pats defense. If he gets his team to the Super Bowl then you have to give him some of the credit.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The problem with Flacco is that Cam Cameron is a clueless dope who often calls plays like Tom Brady is his quarterback, not Flacco. Flacco is not a quarterback who can throw it over and over, week after week, and be a stud passer.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Now even Flacco's own teammate (Ed Reed) is ripping on him, saying he doesn't know the offense and looks lost out there (I'm paraphrasing, as it was on the radio).
mr roboto
Footballguy
Link?
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Sorry, no link. Saw/heard it on ESPN last night.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I heard that part of the interview, too. Not really a rip, just said that Flacco has to get rid of the ball quicker and play better in general than he did last week. He want on to point out that other units/players on the team need to step up as well.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
(TheHuddle) Baltimore Ravens FS Ed Reed said QB Joe Flacco was rattled by the Houston Texans defense in their Divisional Round playoff matchup and will have to play better in the AFC Championship Game. 'I think Joe was kind of rattled a little bit by (Houston's) defense,' Reed said. '(The Texans) had a lot of guys in the box on him. And, I mean, they were getting to him. I think a couple times he needed to get rid of the ball. I don't know how much of the playcalling ... but it just didn't look like he had a hold on the offense ... It was just kind of like (Baltimore's coaches) was telling him to do, throw the ball or get it here, you know, get it to certain guys. And he can't play like that.'
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
He just turned 27 a couple of days ago. His best eight years or so should be ahead of him. I think you've seen pretty good stuff from the guy in his first few years. If he never gets better, maybe the detractors are right. But isn't it realistic to think he might improve as he gets more experience?
Oh, they're in the conference championship game this weekend, too. He somehow gets them to the playoffs every year. He's pretty much proven to be the long-term answer, hasn't he?
Terrible fantasy QB. I think too many people give that weight in this evaluation.
Oh, they're in the conference championship game this weekend, too. He somehow gets them to the playoffs every year. He's pretty much proven to be the long-term answer, hasn't he?
Terrible fantasy QB. I think too many people give that weight in this evaluation.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I'm not putting any weight into his fantasy numbers. And I know his team has gotten to the playoffs. But when you just watch this turd out there, you can see a guy who is some combination of stupid, apathetic, confused, scared or all of the above. He has no pocket presence. He has no feel for the game. He has no intangibles. He just stands there like a statue, allows the defensive line to engulf him, and then gets up and walks off the field with no expression, no recognition, nothing. He is not a "football player" by any definition that I use. I don't dislike the Ravens, so it's not about that. I just can't stand Flacco. He really, really bothers me.He reminds me a lot of Carson Palmer. Only worse. At least Palmer would get upset about something once in a while. But Palmer was the king of walking up to the line of scrimmage with the play clock running down, unbeknownst to him, just in his own little world. Not aware of anything going on. No rush at all. And just the absolute look of bewilderment on his face when the whistle blows and the flags fly. Just no idea at all what's going on out there.
The_Man
Footballguy
Can we look back at the Ravens' final two possessions in the Houston game and talk about just why people think Flacco sucks so bad?
With 7:21 left in the game, the Ravens take over at their own 29 with a 17-13 lead. They haven't scored since the first quarter (in large part because the running game was stuffed on consecutive plays at the Houston goal line to end a 59-yard drive that included 40 yards in passing and saw Ray Rice compile 6 yards on 4 carries and fumble).
Now, they are desperately protecting a narrow lead. Here's the play sequence that follows:
Run - 2 yds
Pass - 13 yds to TE Pitta in the middle of the field (FD)
Pass - 9 yds quick slant to WR Smith beating CB Joseph
Run - 1 yd (FD)
Run - 1 yd
Pass - 14 yds slant out to Boldin at the sideline (FD)
Run - 5 yds
To this point, Flacco is 3-for-3 on the drive for 36 yards, 2 First Downs, and a 9-yard gain on First Down that sets up a 1-yard run for another First. There have been 4 runs for 9 yards. With the game on the line, protecting a 4-point lead vs. one of the NFL's top defenses, Flacco has marched his team into scoring position, even as the running game is almost completely shut down. But he then throws 2 incompletes and the story line becomes that Flacco is dismal. It's a little crazy.
And then, after the Texans give the ball back to the Ravens, they go three-and-out running the ball and still give Houston one more chance. Not sure how that's Flacco's fault but I know it must be.
With 7:21 left in the game, the Ravens take over at their own 29 with a 17-13 lead. They haven't scored since the first quarter (in large part because the running game was stuffed on consecutive plays at the Houston goal line to end a 59-yard drive that included 40 yards in passing and saw Ray Rice compile 6 yards on 4 carries and fumble).
Now, they are desperately protecting a narrow lead. Here's the play sequence that follows:
Run - 2 yds
Pass - 13 yds to TE Pitta in the middle of the field (FD)
Pass - 9 yds quick slant to WR Smith beating CB Joseph
Run - 1 yd (FD)
Run - 1 yd
Pass - 14 yds slant out to Boldin at the sideline (FD)
Run - 5 yds
To this point, Flacco is 3-for-3 on the drive for 36 yards, 2 First Downs, and a 9-yard gain on First Down that sets up a 1-yard run for another First. There have been 4 runs for 9 yards. With the game on the line, protecting a 4-point lead vs. one of the NFL's top defenses, Flacco has marched his team into scoring position, even as the running game is almost completely shut down. But he then throws 2 incompletes and the story line becomes that Flacco is dismal. It's a little crazy.
And then, after the Texans give the ball back to the Ravens, they go three-and-out running the ball and still give Houston one more chance. Not sure how that's Flacco's fault but I know it must be.
houndirish
Footballguy
I seem to remember this exact same description being stuck on Eli Manning by frustrated Giants fans not that long ago. Not saying Flacco is as good or ever will match Eli but I do think he still has the capacity to improve and I think it's a mistake for fans to judge intensity based on what they perceive from player's facial expressions. Not every signalcaller will have the Dan Marino intensity look.
houndirish
Footballguy
Put me in this camp.I don't see Flacco as being elite but that doesn't mean he sucks either. There's only so many top tier QB's in the league and every team can't have one. That doesn't mean they can't win a Super Bowl. There have been plenty of franchises that have won titles that don't start the likes of a Joe Montana or John Elway. While a franchise elite QB does put you at an advantage to get there it's not a requirement. It's also common for fanbases to get fickle when their guy doesn't have "the look" that some of the teams with the elite QB's have. I think Flacco is plenty talented enough to win a Super Bowl. He just may not be capable of doing the heavy lifting like what Elway did in getting the Broncos in the Super Bowl in his early years. However those types of players are rare. Fans forget this and have an unrealistic expectation for the position. There's plenty of teams, and fanbases that would take Flacco in a heartbeat as an upgrade over what they have.
The_Man
Footballguy
If you're interested, take less than 2 minutes to look at this montage of the game-winning 92-yard drive at Pittsburgh. What makes it even more impressive was Flacco overcoming two huge drops by WRs. The one that Smith didn't get to in the endzone (the first time) gets all the attention, but the brutal drop was the one that Boldin had at the 10. I thought that was going to cost them the game, just like Boldin's drop in the endzone cost them the playoff game at Pittsburgh last year.
If you're the Ravens, what AFC teams would you willingly swap QBs with right now?
New England, San Diego, Pittsburgh, and maybe Houston (Manning doesn't count because nobody knows how healthy he is). That's it.
An interesting note - besides Flacco and Sanchez, the only QBs other than Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger to appear in an AFC Championship game since 2002 are Jake Plummer (Denver 2005) and Rivers (San Diego 2007). Maybe that's one of the reasons Flacco gets so much heat - he's being held up to the standard of two all-time greats (Brady and Manning) and one almost certain HOFer.
If you're the Ravens, what AFC teams would you willingly swap QBs with right now?
New England, San Diego, Pittsburgh, and maybe Houston (Manning doesn't count because nobody knows how healthy he is). That's it.
An interesting note - besides Flacco and Sanchez, the only QBs other than Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger to appear in an AFC Championship game since 2002 are Jake Plummer (Denver 2005) and Rivers (San Diego 2007). Maybe that's one of the reasons Flacco gets so much heat - he's being held up to the standard of two all-time greats (Brady and Manning) and one almost certain HOFer.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Give Flacco the time that Brady and Manning get and he'd be much more highly thought of. The reality is that our WRs are weak with lotsa drops and our o-line is average at best. He's not mobile enough to create something out of nothing on a regular basis, but neither are Brady and Manning. Flacco's not great but he certainly does not suck.
Why limit it to the AFC?In the NFC, I would swap with GB, Detroit, NO, Carolina, NYG, Philly, Dallas, Atlanta and now, maybe even SF. That also leaves out a bunch of young QBs like Dalton, Luck, etc. who in a couple years could easily out do Flacco. Flacco is pretty much middle of the pack and I laugh when I see posts about him getting the Ravens to the championship game.
While that was a nice drive, almost every QB has a good drive somewhere in their past. Flacco is mediocre and the funny thing about your list is that Flacco reminds me more of Sanchez in that he gets to championship games due to the rest of his team. He doesn't even come within sniffing distance of the upper tier who have more often than not gotten their teams there despite OK Ds and running games.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Gimme a break. Brady and Manning have some of the best pocket presence in history and are great at getting rid of the ball to avoid a sack, especially Manning. Flacco just stands back there and gets buried.ETA: And Manning's line has been horrible for years.
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I was thinking the same thing. Wasn't GB's OL horrible the last couple years. How many times has Roethlisberger been sacked? NE's OL didn't look that good when they lost the SB and they almost won. Do you think the Ravens D wouldn't have wrapped up Eli on that play or Reed knock the ball away from Tyree? The Ravens were 12th best with 33 sacks given up. 1 more than NE who was 9th.Put Flacco on the Colts this year. How much would they have improved? Not sure it would have been much better. Horrible D, horrible running game and Garcon to drop as many passes as the Raven's WRs.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Are you sure? The oline stats from nfl.com don't back up your assumption. Here's the oline rank from the last 3 years all 3 QBs played. Or is this ranking due entirely to the QB too?2010
Ind 1
NE 4
Balt 23
2009
Ind 1
NE 3
Balt 20
2008
Ind 1
NE 3
Balt 20
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
What's the ranking based on? Number of sacks allowed? Then, YES, it is ENTIRELY because of Manning and Brady.
James Daulton
Footballguy
The ranking is based on a lot more than just sacks. If you think the QB is ENTIRELY responsible for this ranking than I have no idea what else to say.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
What is it based on then? I would venture to say it has a lot to do with sacks allowed. And it is common knowledge that the Colts' line has been abysmal and that Manning and Brady get rid of the ball quickly and have great pocket presence, both of which allow them to avoid sacks. I'm sure you don't have any idea what else to say, because you don't know what you're talking about.
The_Man
Footballguy
I agree that Flacco is middle of the pack - 10-12 if you think he is good, 18-20 if you think he is not. The point is, the Ravens aren't going to be able to find a better QB for the foreseeable future. Especially not one that fits their salary structure with big $ dedicated to Suggs, Ngata, and soon to be Rice. It's not like Brady or Brees or Rodgers or Stafford or Eli is suddenly going to become available.
So if the question is: Who is the Ravens' long-term QB? Then the answer is Flacco.
If the question is: Is Flacco the QB who is going to lead the Ravens to one or more Super Bowl titles? Then we can argue about that.
I like the guy. He has one of the strongest arms in the NFL, he's totally durable (playing 64 straight games without missing a series despite taking a lot of hits vs. top defenses) and he's got a great demeanor for the position. He also doesn't seem to read defenses well or have much pocket awareness, has a slowish delivery, and goes through stretches of erratic accuracy.
This will be a huge game for him -- if he gets his team to the Super Bowl, it answers a lot of questions. If he doesn't, the questions get much louder than ever before. I will say that before this season the knock on Flacco was that he had never beaten the Steelers when Ben was playing - he answered that one, twice. No the knock is that he can't take his team to the Super Bowl, so we'll see how he responds.
So if the question is: Who is the Ravens' long-term QB? Then the answer is Flacco.
If the question is: Is Flacco the QB who is going to lead the Ravens to one or more Super Bowl titles? Then we can argue about that.
I like the guy. He has one of the strongest arms in the NFL, he's totally durable (playing 64 straight games without missing a series despite taking a lot of hits vs. top defenses) and he's got a great demeanor for the position. He also doesn't seem to read defenses well or have much pocket awareness, has a slowish delivery, and goes through stretches of erratic accuracy.
This will be a huge game for him -- if he gets his team to the Super Bowl, it answers a lot of questions. If he doesn't, the questions get much louder than ever before. I will say that before this season the knock on Flacco was that he had never beaten the Steelers when Ben was playing - he answered that one, twice. No the knock is that he can't take his team to the Super Bowl, so we'll see how he responds.
James Daulton
Footballguy
You're right. Indy's line is ranked 1st every freaking year soley because of the QB. Go to nfl.com and look at the rankings themselves. Even this year without Peyton and with the worst QBs in the NFL, Indy was still ranked middle of the pack. I guess Rodgers sucks because the Pack were ranked 21st this year. Actually take a look at the numbers and maybe you won't look like such a jackass.
Banger
Footballguy
you're wrong. what you are looking at is not a ranking it's the o-lines sorted by the number sacks given up. Buff is ranked 1 because they gave up 23 sacks, GB is 21 because they gave up 41 sacks and ST. Louis is 32 because they gave up 55 sacks. Has nothing to do with the stregth of their line.if you want to see real statistical rankings of o-lines you need to go to football outsiders not NFL.com
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I just went to NFL.com and based on your 2010 rankings, those numbers are 100% solely based on sacks and since Indy went from #1 every freaking year to #16 this year, I would have to say Mr. Match is 100% correct that it had to do with Manning. You might have to stop being so defensive, because IMHO there is no better case than the 2011 Colts to say, how good would the OL be without Manning. It happened, we can easily compare 2010 to 2011.What is even better to make you look sillier is that in 2010 with 679 passing attempts the Colts let up 16 sacks and in 2011 with 534 attempts they gave up 35 sacks. So again, we can absolutely 100% confirm that the increase in sacks had to do with Peyton Manning.
Anything to retort?
James Daulton
Footballguy
I think I was looking at QB hits but I see that the ranking is based on sacks. That said, if the Colts line was horrible, without Manning, why wouldn't they fall to lower than 16th? Also, who are the awesome QBs behind Buff, Tenn, Cinn, and Oakland that are making their lines give up so few sacks? My whole point was that both Indys' and New Englands' olines were good at pass protection, much better than the Ravens. Some but not even close to all of this can be attributed to the QBs, or only great QB teams would be at the top.Using Football Outsiders oline pass protection rankings for 2010, Ind ranked #1 and NE #5. Baltimore #25. 2009 Ind ranked #1 and NE #2. In 2011, Indy fell to #18, but NE also fell to #8 while Baltimore rose to #12. While Ind did fall in 2011 (although still not "horrible"), so did NE.
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