Is "Holidays In The Sun" The Best Punk Anthem About Freedom Ever? (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

Just listening to this today. It's been called a proto-fascist song, but you know I'm going to disagree. Here are the textual lyrics, with annotations like Wiki. 

https://genius.com/Sex-pistols-holidays-in-the-sun-lyrics

 

[The Future Champs]

Just listening to this today. It's been called a proto-fascist song, but you know I'm going to disagree. Here are the textual lyrics, with annotations like Wiki. 

https://genius.com/Sex-pistols-holidays-in-the-sun-lyrics

Love the Sex Pistols, but gotta say that the lyrics are too confused to be proto-anything.

 

[rockaction]

Love the Sex Pistols, but gotta say that the lyrics are too confused to be proto-anything.

Yeah, that's probably true, but they made sense to me all of the sudden. That's probably the point at which one should not take out a thread about it. 

But it seems after years of listening to it, I get it. I get what he's saying about the Wall and fascism and communism and paranoia and claustrophobia. Much like years later, people started to get "Bodies" as a raw description of abortion, so might be Rotten's view of the Wall. It's weird. It takes forty years sometimes, but it still matters. 

Anyway, this was sort of brought about by Uruk's point about the Sex Pistols and love songs so I gave the record a spin. It is, indeed, still relevant.  

 

[otb_lifer]

Yeah, that's probably true, but they made sense to me all of the sudden. That's probably the point at which one should not take out a thread about it. 

But it seems after years of listening to it, I get it. I get what he's saying about the Wall and fascism and communism and paranoia and claustrophobia. Much like years later, people started to get "Bodies" as a raw description of abortion, so might be Rotten's view of the Wall. It's weird. It takes forty years sometimes, but it still matters. 

Anyway, this was sort of brought about by Uruk's point about the Sex Pistols and love songs so I gave the record a spin. It is, indeed, still relevant.  

"Holidays"  remains my favorite of theirs ... this particular vid i linked was slapped together by a random chap (ergo, not "official"), but i think it captures all the mayhem that swirled about the maelstrom Messrs. McClaren and Rotten concocted ("Hard Days Night" via the Punk scene, if you will).  a slickly produced (as was all of "Bollocks") tune, with Jonesy's most expressive chops on full display.  Rotten 'taking the piss' as per usual ... a heckler's veto on the nuance of European familial tribalism.  

"Bodies" comes in at number two for me, perhaps the most blistering effort from "Bollocks", with Rotten's most vicious lyrics. John was a quizzical chap on matters such as this - Pauline was a real chic, who had apparently been raped in the nut hut she was locked up in. she described the subsequent abortion to Rotten, and told him of a couple others she had, i think his stance was one based more on the absolute horror he perceived, rather than in an "anti" pose - but, again, 'quizzical', inasmuch that i reckon that there is a modicum of truth to believing he felt the latter.  

the vid linked is a remarkably bittersweet slice of benevolence from the lads, on the eve of their spectacular demise on the ill-fated American tour.  Punk died with them, but, man ... did they make sure it went out in a blaze of furious glory.   

 

[rockaction]

"Holidays"  remains my favorite of theirs ... this particular vid i linked was slapped together by a random chap (ergo, not "official"), but i think it captures all the mayhem that swirled about the maelstrom Messrs. McClaren and Rotten concocted ("Hard Days Night" via the Punk scene, if you will).  a slickly produced (as was all of "Bollocks") tune, with Jonesy's most expressive chops on full display.  Rotten 'taking the piss' as per usual ... a heckler's veto on the nuance of European familial tribalism.  

"Bodies" comes in at number two for me, perhaps the most blistering effort from "Bollocks", with Rotten's most vicious lyrics. John was a quizzical chap on matters such as this - Pauline was a real chic, who had apparently been raped in the nut hut she was locked up in. she described the subsequent abortion to Rotten, and told him of a couple others she had, i think his stance was one based more on the absolute horror he perceived, rather than in an "anti" pose - but, again, 'quizzical', inasmuch that i reckon that there is a modicum of truth to believing he felt the latter.  

the vid linked is a remarkably bittersweet slice of benevolence from the lads, on the eve of their spectacular demise on the ill-fated American tour.  Punk died with them, but, man ... did they make sure it went out in a blaze of furious glory.   

Yeah, I knew the story of Bodies, but that video is...whoa, just because of the juxtaposition of innocence with the song. 

Why do you think punk died with the Pistols's tour? Just out of curiosity. 

Reminds me of a time in Philly...I'll let you go first.  

 

[otb_lifer]

Why do you think punk died with the Pistols's tour? Just out of curiosity.   

from your "assassination" thread, there's This 

 

[rockaction]

from your "assassination" thread, there's This 

Yeah, I read that. (Hell, man, not gonna ignore you). But what about punk dies with that? I think I get what you're saying, I just don't know that punk dies in that immediate moment. 

Or does it? What about that moment and the end of that tour signify the end of punk so much. Have we been living on a bloated whale all these years?  

 

[HellToupee]

For my   it's Stiff Little Fingers Suspect Device

 

[otb_lifer]

Yeah, I read that. (Hell, man, not gonna ignore you). But what about punk dies with that? I think I get what you're saying, I just don't know that punk dies in that immediate moment. 

Or does it? What about that moment and the end of that tour signify the end of punk so much. Have we been living on a bloated whale all these years?  

it died because it was the apex ... all that followed in it's wake was hilarious, almost infantile, far left posturing ... hippies with short hair, ripped jeans, etc.  the self awareness that the London class of '76 exhibited was forever lost. the Ramones introduced the sonic end of it, the Pistols perfected the heckler's pose - everything else was wallpaper to me.  nothing as powerful as the originals.

the lameness that followed was best personified by Jello in "Nazi Punks #### Off" - the lyric 'punk ain't no religious cult/punk means thinking for yourself/you ain't hardcore if you spike your hair/when a jock still lives inside your head' - like i said, infantile.  he's saying 'punk means thinking for yourself', yet he's telling us what to think - it became a balkanized, totalitarian shift to one sided ideology - now, i get going in that thoughts are gonna bend in a certain direction - you buy that when you dip your toes in - but, c'mon ... it's almost embarrassing now to consider how much we were duped by these jackasses.  

the few bands i continued to have fanatical love for were mostly apolitical - Ramones, Thunders and the Heartbreakers (whose L.A.M.F. may be the greatest platter of the era), Misfits, Damned, Siouxsie, Cramps, Sham 69, Dead Boys ... or bands that skewered everyone (Meatmen, Angry Samoans).

i don't begrudge anyone their political ya-yas, but, ferchrissakes, it was so cheap and vicious ... the core fans back in the day make today's Antifa cabal look like ####### Mouseketeers in comparison, and i abhorred the hijack.  the cleverness and satire were gone - the musical nihilism remained, and i absolutely loved that aspect, especially when i was speeding (you had to be to dig #### like THIS, the antithesis of 'mellow', hallucinogenic ingesting trippy/hippie crap - which i detested)  like i said in the post you quoted - 'brilliant in doses' - but lacking in substance, as a whole.  i'd rather eat cat #### with a knitting needle - those commie poseur twats can kiss my hairy white ###.

 

[rockaction]

it died because it was the apex ... all that followed in it's wake was hilarious, almost infantile, far left posturing ... hippies with short hair, ripped jeans, etc.  the self awareness that the London class of '76 exhibited was forever lost. the Ramones introduced the sonic end of it, the Pistols perfected the heckler's pose - everything else was wallpaper to me.  nothing as powerful as the originals.

the lameness that followed was best personified by Jello in "Nazi Punks #### Off" - the lyric 'punk ain't no religious cult/punk means thinking for yourself/you ain't hardcore if you spike your hair/when a jock still lives inside your head' - like i said, infantile.  he's saying 'punk means thinking for yourself', yet he's telling us what to think - it became a balkanized, totalitarian shift to one sided ideology - now, i get going in that thoughts are gonna bend in a certain direction - you buy that when you dip your toes in - but, c'mon ... it's almost embarrassing now to consider how much we were duped by these jackasses.  

the few bands i continued to have fanatical love for were mostly apolitical - Ramones, Thunders and the Heartbreakers (whose L.A.M.F. may be the greatest platter of the era), Misfits, Damned, Siouxsie, Cramps, Sham 69, Dead Boys ... or bands that skewered everyone (Meatmen, Angry Samoans).

i don't begrudge anyone their political ya-yas, but, ferchrissakes, it was so cheap and vicious ... the core fans back in the day make today's Antifa cabal look like ####### Mouseketeers in comparison, and i abhorred the hijack.  the cleverness and satire were gone - the musical nihilism remained, and i absolutely loved that aspect, especially when i was speeding (you had to be to dig #### like THIS, the antithesis of 'mellow', hallucinogenic ingesting trippy/hippie crap - which i detested)  like i said in the post you quoted - 'brilliant in doses' - but lacking in substance, as a whole.  i'd rather eat cat #### with a knitting needle - those commie poseur twats can kiss my hairy white ###.

Okay, I would say I agree but I loved that link. That first DK album was from another world. Once they hit Frankenchrist, I thought their stuff was too political to be palatable, but other than that I'd give them a pass.

Then again, scenes have their own thing. I remember CT Hardcore (I think I'm younger than you) back in the late '80s and early '90s. #### that.

Just like maybe you're remembering punk back in the early '80s. 

Also, i'm not at the top of of my game right now. 

 

[otb_lifer]

Okay, I would say I agree but I loved that link. That first DK album was from another world. Once they hit Frankenchrist, I thought their stuff was too political to be palatable, but other than that I'd give them a pass.

Then again, scenes have their own thing. I remember CT Hardcore (I think I'm younger than you) back in the late '80s and early '90s. #### that.

Just like maybe you're remembering punk back in the early '80s. 

Also, i'm not at the top of of my game right now. 

"FFFRV" is as good as it ever got for that ilk - and loved that Jello ate his own -  the irony of "the hippies won't come back you say/mellow out or you will pay/ MELLOW OUT OR YOU WILL PAY" is priceless, especially considering Gov. Moonbeam is back in Sacramento   but the reworking of this into "We've Got A Bigger Problem Now" (In God We Trust, Inc.) was a disastrous reach that pissed all over the genius and black humor of the original.

'brilliant in doses', my man 

 

[rockaction]

"FFFRV" is as good as it ever got for that ilk - and loved that Jello ate his own -  the irony of "the hippies won't come back you say/mellow out or you will pay/ MELLOW OUT OR YOU WILL PAY" is priceless, especially considering Gov. Moonbeam is back in Sacramento   but the reworking of this into "We've Got A Bigger Problem Now" (In God We Trust, Inc.) was a disastrous reach that pissed all over the genius and black humor of the original.

'brilliant in doses', my man 

Jello really ate his own. I totally get what you're saying about In God We Trust vs. FFFRV. Totally different mindset. There's a preachiness to one that wasn't with the other. It's just that Plastic Surgery was so good that it made up for the preachiness of In God...

and...

in doses.

Wow. We see sort of eye-to-eye on DK; I just always thought Plastic Surgery was a great album.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

You got me curious since I never "understood" this song. 

Wikipedia:

The song was inspired by a trip to the Channel Island of Jersey: "We tried our holiday in the sun in the isle of Jersey and that didn't work. They threw us out." That trip was followed by a couple of weeks spent in Berlin. Although they described the city as "raining and depressing", they were relieved to get away from London. Said John Lydon, "Being in London at the time made us feel like we were trapped in a prison camp environment. There was hatred and constant threat of violence. The best thing we could do was to go set up in a prison camp somewhere else. Berlin and its decadence was a good idea. The song came about from that. I loved Berlin. I loved the wall and the insanity of the place. The communists looked in on the circus atmosphere of West Berlin, which never went to sleep, and that would be their impression of the West."

 

[rockaction]

You got me curious since I never "understood" this song. 

Wikipedia:

Those are the lyrics that finally kicked in for me. He's looking at the East looking at the West, and that's what he craves. 

Thanks for posting that.  

The song isn't proto-fascist, as I once read, it's just a longing for freedom. Hence the thread.  

Anyway, the Pistols could prove me wrong (always have) but that's how I read it. Such a powerful band. Such a powerful album.