Bostonfred said:
Do you agree?
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Is Manning As Much A Cancer As T.O.? Take 2 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
delusional
Footballguy
I don't know if I should laugh at that statement or feel bad
bostonfred
Footballguy
Hi JoeJust saw you posted another thread. Thought we were talking about this in the original thread, since you asked me a question in the original thread, and I responded, or the other poll, since you asked me a question, and I responded with the above. But let's chat here. Given the above, which teams do you think would pass on Manning if they could trade their guy, straight up, for him this offseason?
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Finally. The right question!
The answer is obviously Strongly Disagree.
The answer is obviously Strongly Disagree.
Hi Fred,For sure there are teams that are 100% content at QB (like NE and CIN) that wouldn't rock the boat with a change. Some might not do it even if they thought their guy was not as good as Manning because of continuity and the learning curve involved with a new offense and the message it would send to the other players.Does that have anything to do with Manning being just as much a cancer as TO?J
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
I expect this poll to be over 70% in favor of option 5
Neal Cassady
Footballguy
I'll bite:STRAIGHT UP being the key..New England for sure..Cincy and Philly maybe..New Orleans might consider..all the rest would do it in a second. Oh..and I strongly disagree.
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bostonfred
Footballguy
I'm sure you've already voted in this poll. After all, everyone hates Owens, and Manning is one of the best quarterbacks in the league. But let's make the case for Manning as cancer.
FIRST, we see that nobody seems to want to blame Manning. Look at last year, for example, when the Colts were in the top 1/3 of the NFL in defense. It was obviously the coach, the kicker, and the defense who let them down.
Like in their first and only playoff game of the year. You might remember, the kicker missed the 46 yard kick to tie the game? So they ran the kicker out of town.
Manning brought them to the 28 yard line, and with 30 seconds left and two time outs, he inexplicably started going for the end zone. They had plenty of time to pick up a couple more yards to get into comfortable field goal range. Manning chose not to. Could Vanderjagt have bailed him out? Sure. But that would have been considered a hell of a kick if he did.
The other reason I say that game was Manning's fault, and not Vanderjagt's, is that Manning had already thrown the game ending interception to Troy Polamalu. Fortunately for the Colts, the refs inexplicably overturned it because, while untouched by a defender, his knee touched the ground during the interception. This was a blown call, and there's a five page thread on it from last year's playoffs if you're interested.
But wait, when Manning got a second life, he surely must have led the drive you described, right? Nope. Instead, he took three straight sacks and gave up the ball to the Steelers.
But that doesn't make sense. How did he get to the game tying field goal, then? Well, it turns out that the defense forced a Bettis fumble that gave Manning a THIRD chance, and he blew that, too.
So when it comes down to it, yeah, I put a little blame on the quarterback. But Manning doesn't. He blames:
- the offensive line
- the kicker
- the defense
- the refs (except when they overturn the Polamalu interception)
- the field
- the cold
That's not leadership. That's a guy who calls out his teammates because he makes mistakes.
Now, does that make him as much of a "cancer" as Owens? No. Manning doesn't sleep through meetings, or park in the head coach's parking space. Manning's asking the stockboy for his autograph.
The big difference is, Manning crumbles in the clutch at the most important position in the NFL, and when he blows the game, he blames his offensive line and kicker for his failures. Owens led the biggest comeback in playoff history against the Giants and was a McNabb throwup away from a Superbowl MVP and he's a villain because he calls out his quarterback.
Do I like Manning more than Owens? Sure. He's a nice guy. Funny commercials. Laser, rocket arm. But his collapses on the field and his unwillingness to be accountable for them have been far more damaging to the Colts' Superbowl chances than Owens' off the field antics. Simply stated, Owens is neither as bad, nor Manning as good, as their reputations, and it would not surprise me in the least to see Owens go to win a Superbowl before Manning.
FIRST, we see that nobody seems to want to blame Manning. Look at last year, for example, when the Colts were in the top 1/3 of the NFL in defense. It was obviously the coach, the kicker, and the defense who let them down.
Like in their first and only playoff game of the year. You might remember, the kicker missed the 46 yard kick to tie the game? So they ran the kicker out of town.
Manning brought them to the 28 yard line, and with 30 seconds left and two time outs, he inexplicably started going for the end zone. They had plenty of time to pick up a couple more yards to get into comfortable field goal range. Manning chose not to. Could Vanderjagt have bailed him out? Sure. But that would have been considered a hell of a kick if he did.
The other reason I say that game was Manning's fault, and not Vanderjagt's, is that Manning had already thrown the game ending interception to Troy Polamalu. Fortunately for the Colts, the refs inexplicably overturned it because, while untouched by a defender, his knee touched the ground during the interception. This was a blown call, and there's a five page thread on it from last year's playoffs if you're interested.
But wait, when Manning got a second life, he surely must have led the drive you described, right? Nope. Instead, he took three straight sacks and gave up the ball to the Steelers.
But that doesn't make sense. How did he get to the game tying field goal, then? Well, it turns out that the defense forced a Bettis fumble that gave Manning a THIRD chance, and he blew that, too.
So when it comes down to it, yeah, I put a little blame on the quarterback. But Manning doesn't. He blames:
- the offensive line
- the kicker
- the defense
- the refs (except when they overturn the Polamalu interception)
- the field
- the cold
That's not leadership. That's a guy who calls out his teammates because he makes mistakes.
Now, does that make him as much of a "cancer" as Owens? No. Manning doesn't sleep through meetings, or park in the head coach's parking space. Manning's asking the stockboy for his autograph.
The big difference is, Manning crumbles in the clutch at the most important position in the NFL, and when he blows the game, he blames his offensive line and kicker for his failures. Owens led the biggest comeback in playoff history against the Giants and was a McNabb throwup away from a Superbowl MVP and he's a villain because he calls out his quarterback.
Do I like Manning more than Owens? Sure. He's a nice guy. Funny commercials. Laser, rocket arm. But his collapses on the field and his unwillingness to be accountable for them have been far more damaging to the Colts' Superbowl chances than Owens' off the field antics. Simply stated, Owens is neither as bad, nor Manning as good, as their reputations, and it would not surprise me in the least to see Owens go to win a Superbowl before Manning.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Yes, it does. I think your list is short. I think a playoff caliber team with a Superbowl capable quarterback would at least think long and hard before taking on a quarterback with Manning's playoff history. I think San Diego wouldn't trade Rivers for Manning straight up right now, even thought he's just a rookie. I don't think Philly would trade an injured McNabb for Manning straight up, and that's after McNabb literally choked in the two minute drill of the Superbowl. I think Tennessee would even have a hard time trading a rookie who seems to have "it" in Vince Young for a guy who doesn't. Manning's a top quarterback, but when push comes to shove I think a lot of teams would be hesitant to trade in a top notch QB for a slightly better guy with a history of mental mistakes in big games that dates back to college. I think a lot of NFL people look at Peyton's history, and Archie, and Eli, and say, maybe this guy is a great quarterback, but he just wasn't born with that winner's mentality.
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
What you have to realize here BF, is that you might get one GM that thinks like you. I would bet 75% of the GMs in the NFL would rather have Manning right now than who they currently have. These "mental mistakes" you think you see....or whatever you see, is not a commonly held view, outside of NE.
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I'm sorry fred but I just don't think you're seeing it here. Is this really about Brady somehow? That's the only thing I can figure as it's just so far out there nothing else makes sense to me. It's ok, Brady is a great QB. Maybe the greatest QB playing right now. I don't have any problem with that.
I saw Manning call out the lineman last year saying they had protection problems. Which they did. He called out the Defense this week. They are terrible. Is that the right thing to do? Absolutely not. But you seem to think it's on the level of saying the team would be undefeated if they had a better WR which is more on the level of what Owens did.
I fully understand Manning makes mistakes on and off the field. No argument there. But That's not what I'm talking about here. You want to make statements that he's a cancer like TO and I just honestly don't see that you're even remotely in the right ball park there. That's cool though, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Good luck.
J
videoguy505
Footballguy
Which Manning? I could see an argument for both of them. Hell, probably one for Archie, too.
That's cool. But totally disagree. A.J. Smith would do cartwheels to have Manning over a guy that is starting to look very shaky in Rivers. Andy Reid might not as McNabb is the heart of that team. That'd be tough to cut out. Having current guys in place makes it tough. Team chemistry already in place is a giant factor.A better question is how the QB draft would go if every NFL team started over tomorrow with a blank slate and started building a team. If that happened, how many QBs would be selected before Manning in your opinion?J
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Neal Cassady
Footballguy
Maybe half (and I would bet less) would take Brady and noboby would even think about anyone else.
yetiknight
Footballguy
Manning is much more like a cancer.
Owens has left two teams in disarray already. He is working on his third. He is more like benign tumor. Once you remove it, you can get healthy again.
Peyton Manning came to a franchise that gave everyone outside of Bengals fans someone to laugh at in the 90's. Then he infected the team with a winning attitude, class, and work ethic that is unmatched in sports.
It could take years to get rid of the lingering affects.
Owens has left two teams in disarray already. He is working on his third. He is more like benign tumor. Once you remove it, you can get healthy again.
Peyton Manning came to a franchise that gave everyone outside of Bengals fans someone to laugh at in the 90's. Then he infected the team with a winning attitude, class, and work ethic that is unmatched in sports.
It could take years to get rid of the lingering affects.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Probably not many. I think the first four picks would be Brady, Palmer, Manning, and McNabb. I think it depends on the GM which order they picked them in.
You're killing me, Guy.
I agree with the above. But I don't see how it reconciles with
and
J
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Otis
Footballguy
I actually can somewhat see what Fred is talking about, and I don't 100% disagree. Much as Owens is a pain in the ### off the field, he is (maybe up until this season?) an absolute terror on the field. Look at what Owens did in the Super Bowl last year after coming off a broken leg. Not a sprain, or a bruise. A broken leg. The guy comes back early and absolutely dominates in the Super Bowl, despite that his QB and everyone else on his team are awful. That's a guy I'd like to take to the super bowl with me this year. I don't think Manning has ever in his career shown up like that in such a big game.
Owens is definitely hated, and that will skew the results here. But Fred makes a fair point.
Owens is definitely hated, and that will skew the results here. But Fred makes a fair point.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
OK I'm going to chime in - 
I see Boston Freds point -
Owens is a player that touches the ball at most MAYBE 11 times a game. Yet team after team that Owens goes to makes the playoffs and most advance. Every QB that has thrown him the ball has made the Pro Bowl. It seems he doesn't get any credit for making players around him play better. For a guy that has a very limited role, his impact on the field has been tremendous.
Peyton always manages a great passing offense, even if it exposes and is at the expense of his defense. Manning is much more interested in throwing TD passes than clock management. In fact, he has stated that he wants to score a touchdown on every drive. For the most part, that is why he has lost at NE and Pitt. Too aggressive and tends to throw into coverage because of it.
For being a student of the game, it seems his criteria for success seems much more number driven than he is given credit for (not to say Owens doesn't love himself some TO). The difference is when things don't go TOs way, TO wants the ball more.
When things don't go well for Manning he is the first one to step up and throw EVERYONE under the bus. :11:
I can see with Owens limited role and Mannings critical role, Manning could be considered more of a liability to winning games AT THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER than TO. He needs to learn how to manage a game better and read 3-4 defenses better. Owens is a plug and play player - insert him and your QB goes to the Pro Bowl and your team makes the playoffs.
ETA Owens has thrown his QB under the bus, but ALOT of WRs have done that. Just not the good ones usually.
I see Boston Freds point -
Owens is a player that touches the ball at most MAYBE 11 times a game. Yet team after team that Owens goes to makes the playoffs and most advance. Every QB that has thrown him the ball has made the Pro Bowl. It seems he doesn't get any credit for making players around him play better. For a guy that has a very limited role, his impact on the field has been tremendous.
Peyton always manages a great passing offense, even if it exposes and is at the expense of his defense. Manning is much more interested in throwing TD passes than clock management. In fact, he has stated that he wants to score a touchdown on every drive. For the most part, that is why he has lost at NE and Pitt. Too aggressive and tends to throw into coverage because of it.
For being a student of the game, it seems his criteria for success seems much more number driven than he is given credit for (not to say Owens doesn't love himself some TO). The difference is when things don't go TOs way, TO wants the ball more.
When things don't go well for Manning he is the first one to step up and throw EVERYONE under the bus. :11:I can see with Owens limited role and Mannings critical role, Manning could be considered more of a liability to winning games AT THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER than TO. He needs to learn how to manage a game better and read 3-4 defenses better. Owens is a plug and play player - insert him and your QB goes to the Pro Bowl and your team makes the playoffs.
ETA Owens has thrown his QB under the bus, but ALOT of WRs have done that. Just not the good ones usually.
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Dancing Bear
Footballguy
I believe that Manning is more of a "cancer" than a casual glimpse would imply. That being said, he is no where near the "cancer" that T.O. is.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
so, him wanting to score a TD on every possession is wrong? And his desire to score a TD on every possession is the driving force to INTs? Link?You have an amazing insight into the mind of Peyton Manning!OK I'm going to chime in -
Peyton always manages a great passing offense, even if it exposes and is at the expense of his defense. Manning is much more interested in throwing TD passes than clock management. In fact, he has stated that he wants to score a touchdown on every drive. For the most part, that is why he has lost at NE and Pitt. Too aggressive and tends to throw into coverage because of it.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I don't understand. What am I not seeing? I've explained the statement. Manning is not the kind of "cancer" that Owens is. He's the exact opposite kind. I think the disconnect is simple. Where you see a great player in Manning who has had occasional struggles, I see a flawed player who can put up great numbers when he's surrounded by offensive talent. Where you see a terribly flawed player in Owens, I see a great player who can't coexist well with others. And I think they both need to become better teammates. Owens says and does stupid things off the field, but sideline to sideline, he gives it 100%. Even this year, when he's playing through injury, he's caught 12 TDs. It's easy to talk about what a bad guy he is, if you don't want to look at the results. Teams do win with Owens. They might not love having him around, but they win. And while he's not winning any popularity contests, there are plenty of unpopular players, and hooker parties, and other media circuses in the NFL. Owens's presence isn't the best thing in the world for a team, but it's not nearly as bad as some make it out to be. On the other hand, Manning infuses the team with a sense of "Don't worry, I'll take care of everything". But when he fails, each year, on the field, he blames everyone else. That's a far more insidious kind of cancer. Sure, the Colts win a lot of games with Manning. But the reason he can't win consistently in the playoffs is that, when he stumbles, the rest of the team can't function. I'm not saying this is all Manning's fault. Maybe he could be great on a team that had an all star cast surrounding him, or a stud defense that could carry games when he fails. But there's a pretty sizable history of evidence that suggests that the problem with Indy isn't the defense. It's their total reliance on a fallable player who holds them accountable for his mistakes.
I don't think you're accurately seeing the "blame everyone but himself". He's made some statements where he said true things that he should have kept private. But I don't see that nearly the same way you do.But bottom line, you think he'd be one of the top 4 QBs taken if every GM were to start over and build a team from scratch tomorrow. I agree with that. And that says more than anything to me.J
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Joe,
Why is it so important to you what people think about this that you keep making these (stupid) polls? You didn't already know that Owens is generally disliked and Peyton is generally revered? Were you wanting to run BF's nose in his comment?
Once again, the results of this poll prove nothing - except to expose the opinions of some FF nerds, and we all know about opinions.
Why is it so important to you what people think about this that you keep making these (stupid) polls? You didn't already know that Owens is generally disliked and Peyton is generally revered? Were you wanting to run BF's nose in his comment?
Once again, the results of this poll prove nothing - except to expose the opinions of some FF nerds, and we all know about opinions.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
This doesn't prove anything either. Almost every coach/GM in the league will take the talent guy regardless of character because they always think they might be "the one" that can turn him around. All you've got him to admit is that Peyton has great ability, and we already knew that. This, in no way, addresses the matter of him being a cancer or not.
Dancing Bear
Footballguy
Having played on many athletic teams in the past 40 years, I can safely say that more than one of the Indianapolis Defenders would like to take a special little hit on sweet Peyton when the GM and coaches are not looking. Nothing to maim or permanently damage, but definitely a little something to make a clear point.
True or not his comments are not consistent with the comments which should come from a mature, veteran athlete who makes a living playing on a TEAM. That sort of comment should not come from a "leader", which where I feel Peyton continually fails.
Technically and mechanically he is a superb QB. He is also by all accounts a hard worker and diligent in his efforts. But there is more to being part of a TEAM then mechanics and hard work.
True or not his comments are not consistent with the comments which should come from a mature, veteran athlete who makes a living playing on a TEAM. That sort of comment should not come from a "leader", which where I feel Peyton continually fails.
Technically and mechanically he is a superb QB. He is also by all accounts a hard worker and diligent in his efforts. But there is more to being part of a TEAM then mechanics and hard work.
bostonfred
Footballguy
If I had to choose between Brady and Manning, I'd take Brady ten times out of ten. It's not just because I believe Brady is every bit the quarterback Manning is. It's because I believe that Brady knows how to win, and Manning, at least at this stage in his career, will hinder his team from winning. If I could choose between Dilfer and Manning, I'd choose Manning, even though Dilfer is clearly capable of winning a Superbowl, and Manning hasn't shown that yet. I believe there are skills necessary to win a Superbowl, and that one of those skills is game management. I believe that Manning lacks that skill. But I'd still take him, hoping he could learn that skill, over Dilfer. If I had to choose between Owens and Fitzgerald, I'd probably take Fitzgerald. They're similarly talented players, but Fitzgerald is a good guy and much less of a distraction. If I had to choose between Owens and Greg Jennings, I would choose Owens. Owens is more talented, and would add so much to the team's talent level that it would be worth the distractions on a team that needs a talent infusion if they want to get to a Superbowl. Just because someone's a "cancer", it doesn't mean you'd never want them on your team.You're killing me, Guy.andJ
bostonfred
Footballguy
Out of curiosity, did you say the same thing about Owens' comments about McNabb throwing up in the Superbowl?
I said exactly the same thing about Owens comments on McNabb. True but should have been kept private.
J
Now that's a shockIf I had to choose between Brady and Manning, I'd take Brady ten times out of ten.You're killing me, Guy.I agree with the above. But I don't see how it reconciles with
andJ
I still contend this is more about fred's crush on Brady than anything... J
BigTuna
Footballguy
Strongly disagree. Its absurd to even mention Peyton and Owens in the same sentence. Unless you're comparing them as opposites. If you're going to throw Peyton under the bus may as well add Marino under there too.
Last I checked its a team effort. Do you think Big Ben is a stellar QB? Is he better than Peyton? He's got a ring, must make him a better qb.. Or could it be that he was just the beneficiary or some gratuitous calls by the refs and a kick ### run by his running back?
When it comes right down to it, the difference between a SUPER BOWL QB and PLAYOFF QB are a couple lucky plays and maybe having the ball bounce your way a few times. Having the refs on your side doesn't hurt either.
Peytons good, he just may not be lucky. Owens is just another idiot that doesn't know when to keep his trap shut.
Last I checked its a team effort. Do you think Big Ben is a stellar QB? Is he better than Peyton? He's got a ring, must make him a better qb.. Or could it be that he was just the beneficiary or some gratuitous calls by the refs and a kick ### run by his running back?
When it comes right down to it, the difference between a SUPER BOWL QB and PLAYOFF QB are a couple lucky plays and maybe having the ball bounce your way a few times. Having the refs on your side doesn't hurt either.
Peytons good, he just may not be lucky. Owens is just another idiot that doesn't know when to keep his trap shut.
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Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Joe,I live in Philly and the above is a common misconception. McNabb is neither the leader of the Eagles nor the "heart of the team". He is just their best player. It was a very split team with regards to the Owens/McNabb blowup. McNabb is not universally liked on that team. Trotter is a main leader of that team and Brian Dawkins is the heart of the team.
bostonfred
Footballguy
That's not cool. At all. Seriously. What Tom and I have is more than just a crush. And I'm sure that you starting multiple polls about a comment I made in another thread has nothing to do with your crush on Manning, you big softie. But kidding aside, I think that Manning and Owens are two of the most fascinating people in the NFL, and I do think there are some real similarities in what they do to a team, in very different ways. If you don't see it, that's cool. I don't think I'll be able to change that. But there are real similarities.Now that's a shock
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Manning sucking in the playoffs does not make him a cancer. I think perhaps we need to define what we mean by "cancer" when we use it to describe T.O. Going through how Manning failed last season might be true, but it's not entirely relevant to him being a cancer or not.
Otis
Footballguy
I'd like to hear someone address this.
bostonfred
Footballguy
OK. I agree. Also, I don't think Owens is slipping. He's got a broken bone in his hand, went through a quarterback change, and had to work his way back from a hamstring injury, and he still had a big year. I think he's got a few more years of top notch performance in him.
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
The part you should have highlighted was the part that I said he is much more interested in throwing TDs than clock management. Sometimes a 10 yard pass is more important than an 80 yard pass. Also the part about him having real issues with reading 3-4 defenses might have been a good highlight. Wnating to score a TD on every drive is fine, but sometimes running time is more important than the running up the score.Also, try to remember we are just splitting hairs here. I think Manning is an awsome QB. I think TO is a beast on the field. My point is that Manning has had more to do with his teams playoff losses than TO, yet I have never seen him step up to the podium and say I let the team down. It either "we" played poorly when "he" played poorly or "pick a position" let our team down. That to me doesn't spell "team player".so, him wanting to score a TD on every possession is wrong? And his desire to score a TD on every possession is the driving force to INTs? Link?You have an amazing insight into the mind of Peyton Manning!OK I'm going to chime in -
Peyton always manages a great passing offense, even if it exposes and is at the expense of his defense. Manning is much more interested in throwing TD passes than clock management. In fact, he has stated that he wants to score a touchdown on every drive. For the most part, that is why he has lost at NE and Pitt. Too aggressive and tends to throw into coverage because of it.
Shoot, he was throwing Rhodes under the bus as early as week 3 this year.
bostonfred
Footballguy
The part you should have highlighted was the part that I said he is much more interested in throwing TDs than clock management. Sometimes a 10 yard pass is more important than an 80 yard pass. Also the part about him having real issues with reading 3-4 defenses might have been a good highlight. Wnating to score a TD on every drive is fine, but sometimes running time is more important than the running up the score.Also, try to remember we are just splitting hairs here. I think Manning is an awsome QB. I think TO is a beast on the field. My point is that Manning has had more to do with his teams playoff losses than TO, yet I have never seen him step up to the podium and say I let the team down. It either "we" played poorly when "he" played poorly or "pick a position" let our team down. That to me doesn't spell "team player".so, him wanting to score a TD on every possession is wrong? And his desire to score a TD on every possession is the driving force to INTs? Link?You have an amazing insight into the mind of Peyton Manning!OK I'm going to chime in -
Peyton always manages a great passing offense, even if it exposes and is at the expense of his defense. Manning is much more interested in throwing TD passes than clock management. In fact, he has stated that he wants to score a touchdown on every drive. For the most part, that is why he has lost at NE and Pitt. Too aggressive and tends to throw into coverage because of it.
Shoot, he was throwing Rhodes under the bus as early as week 3 this year.
Otis
Footballguy
I figured you would agree. I'm curious to hear what the Manning-lovers response is to this.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
I've never been a Manning fan, but the term cancer is deliberately provocative, as well as inapt.
He does not possess the kind of personality that rips apart teams. While I do not think that TO's problems are entirely his fault (some of it is him, some of it is the media who feed on the emotionally vulnerable, in the case of Philly some of it is Reid & McNabb), there's no question that his behavior has caused problems in the past.
I do understand why many people dislike Manning--he seems like a nice and professional guy, but he presents an air of a) obnoxious sunday school whiteness (unlike say Favre) and b) striving. Basically, he is not cool. He is a dork in a way that Favre, Brady, Montana never were. Note: so are most of us.
I don't mind that he threw his defence & O Line under the bus. In both cases they deserved it (I don't know enough about team dynamics to know whether public vs. private criticism is more effective). I do mind that he seemed two faced about it--if you're going to do it, do it. Don't try to backtrack and have it both ways.
But none of that makes him a cancer.
He does not possess the kind of personality that rips apart teams. While I do not think that TO's problems are entirely his fault (some of it is him, some of it is the media who feed on the emotionally vulnerable, in the case of Philly some of it is Reid & McNabb), there's no question that his behavior has caused problems in the past.
I do understand why many people dislike Manning--he seems like a nice and professional guy, but he presents an air of a) obnoxious sunday school whiteness (unlike say Favre) and b) striving. Basically, he is not cool. He is a dork in a way that Favre, Brady, Montana never were. Note: so are most of us.
I don't mind that he threw his defence & O Line under the bus. In both cases they deserved it (I don't know enough about team dynamics to know whether public vs. private criticism is more effective). I do mind that he seemed two faced about it--if you're going to do it, do it. Don't try to backtrack and have it both ways.
But none of that makes him a cancer.
The Man Who Met Andy Griffith
Footballguy
Which raises an interesting question: how much of this is coaching? Granted, Manning is smart enough that he should be able to figure this out on his own, but shouldn't this be one of Dungy's top priorities?I wonder how much better Manning would be under the tutelage of a better coach (Belichick, Parcells, Fisher).
Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Code:
1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 1 2000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 0 2002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 0 2003 den W,41-10 | 22 26 377 5 0 | 1 0 0 2003 kan W,38-31 | 22 30 304 3 0 | 1 -1 0 2003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 0 2004 den W,49-24 | 27 33 457 4 1 | 1 1 1 2004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0 2005 pit L,18-21 | 22 38 290 1 0 | 0 0 0
BigJim®
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
I think coaching and mentoring are a part of it, but I think a bigger part of it is ingrained in you early in your life and can't be coached. I wonder how much better Owens could have been with a Cris Carter on the team. Or how much better Moss could have been if they'd stayed together longer.
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Kevin Ashcraft
Footballguy
Took me a minute, butFixed for you Kevin in bold...J
bostonfred
Footballguy
If you judge Manning on stats alone, then I can understand your confusion with my posts.
