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Is Marion Barber Expendable in Dallas? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter peralta22
- Start date
IMO it's a 99.9% chance that Barber will in fact be cut in the off-season. They need the salary cap and he's just not producing enough for his salary. I can see them trying to move him, but I can't see any takers with his contract extension. My guess is that they'll cut Barber and either sign a RB or pick one up late in this years draft. I don't see a bellcow in the backfield next season but a full blown RBBC between Choice/Felix/?
mlball77
Footballguy
They could probably get by without Barber (Jones and Choice are good players), but I think he brings something to the table with his physical running style and all around game. I'm not sure what his contract looks like, so maybe he is overpaid? I just think he helps the Dallas offense and is a good RB serving in a RBBC. I personally think Barber and Jones make a nice duo going forward.
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switz
Footballguy
When they made Barber the starter, and signed him to the big contract, I was saying he'd be traded within 2 years. Well, two years will be up after this season. Either he renegotiates or he's gone. I fully expect him to renegotiate, and go into a "closer" role next season. The trade market for RBs just doesn't garner much, and no team is going to give up a lot for an average talent who can no longer sustain the intensity that made him successful.
Barber still has value to the Cowboys, just not as much as his contract indicates.
Barber still has value to the Cowboys, just not as much as his contract indicates.
hoopvillian
Footballguy
How old is he? The Bolts need a replacement for LT...
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
To be honest.... You can do much better than Barber as a replacement to LT.
BigJim®
Footballguy
99.9%? I think that's probably a bit high.
switz
Footballguy
Actually, Barber would do a pretty good job imitating LT's performance this year. Around 3.x YPC in most games, and good at the goal line.
While I do not agree that Barber is just "average" (I think he is the type of RB that needs more carries to get going ala Bettis), I think Switz is right in that he still has value to Dallas, just not at the current contract. I think the saavy move for Dallas would be to move Choice. He has shown enough that he is a good RB, yet has very little mileage at this point. If I were a GM, that is primarily the only type of RB I would trade for. With that said, we may never know why Lamont Jordan and Michael Turner were not traded (and instead allowed to walk and had at least one successful year after). Could be the teams wanted an insurance policy, but it could also mean that no one was willing to give them much, so they just kept them.
Sammy Traveller
Footballguy
if Barber is cut, the Redskins will probably try to sign him. There are so many needs on offense and it is hard to address all of them during the draft. I know Bruce Allen is all about veterans, so Barber may be that.
DropKick
Footballguy
Watching the Saints and Cowboys play the other night, I couldn't help but think about how the role of RB hs changed over the years. Instead of a true feature back, we had Barber/Jones/Choice matched against Thomas/Bell/Bush.
Barber signed a big contract that is well above his on the field value. I would move Barber and roll with Jones and Choice if I were the GM. Jones has a bit of an injury history but I really like what I've seen from Choice. Complement the pair with another mid to late round pick.
Barber signed a big contract that is well above his on the field value. I would move Barber and roll with Jones and Choice if I were the GM. Jones has a bit of an injury history but I really like what I've seen from Choice. Complement the pair with another mid to late round pick.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I still believe in Barber. I think he started the year very strong, but then that quad strain pretty much ruined his year. Injury accumulation can destroy a player, but nothing Barber has gone through has been catastrophic, just nagging.
If he is cut by the Cowboys he will be the best and most prized FA RB on the market. There are probably 10 teams he could go to and be the best RB on the team.
If he is cut by the Cowboys he will be the best and most prized FA RB on the market. There are probably 10 teams he could go to and be the best RB on the team.
Todem
Footballguy
n20
Footballguy
Which is exactly why I don't think he'll be cut. My guess is he'll rework his contract to bring it back down to earth a bit and continue to get a share of the workload. In my opinion the only way Barber's role changes is if there is a new head coach who listens to everything Jerry says (which I could easily see happening).
switz
Footballguy
And they are?I'll spot you Chicago...
Mr Two Cents
Footballguy
Chicago, Seattle, Detroit, Houston, Buffalo, Cleveland, Indy, Green Bay, Kansas City, New England, Oakland and the Redskins.
Here's the details of Barber's contract:
5/20/2008: Signed a seven-year, $45 million contract.
The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus.
2009: $620,000,
2010: $3.86 million,
2011: $4.25 million,
2012: $5.75 million,
2013: $6.25 million,
2014: $7 million,
2015: Free Agent
Depending on the structure of the guaranteed money, It may not be feasible to cut or trade him.
Anyone know how guaranteed money works?
5/20/2008: Signed a seven-year, $45 million contract.
The deal contains $16 million guaranteed, including a $12 million signing bonus.
2009: $620,000,
2010: $3.86 million,
2011: $4.25 million,
2012: $5.75 million,
2013: $6.25 million,
2014: $7 million,
2015: Free Agent
Depending on the structure of the guaranteed money, It may not be feasible to cut or trade him.
Anyone know how guaranteed money works?
switz
Footballguy
Fixed...No way he's better than:Mr Two Cents said:
Jackson or Lynch in BUF
Harrison or Cribbs in CLE
Addai or Brown in IND
Grant in GB
Charles in KC
Taylor or Maroney in NE - they get injured, but they're more talented
McFadden or Bush in OAK
also think Slaton is better than him, but I can see a debate. Portis better, but nearing the cliff.
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DropKick
Footballguy
Felix man-love clouding your judgment? First of all, Fred Taylor is a great back at the end of his career and shouldn't really be in the discussion. One could argue that Barber has accomplished more than anyone else on the list, with the possible exception of Grant.Are we debating fantasy value or NFL value? I think Barbers NFL value exceeds that of FF. Not a fan of the bruising (looking for contact) style. It almost guarantees he'll get dinged up. Then there is the 'Boys offensive philosophy. How would Barber fare in the Indy or NE offense?
BigA
Footballguy
I"ll Chime in hereSeattle- yesDetroit- no, Kevin Smith is a very good all purpose back on a bad teamHouston- ? Slaton vs Barber is debatableBuffalo- no, Both back are better than MB3Cleveland-no, are you kidding me? one week and Harrison is Marshall Faulk?Indy- ? Addai and/or Brown vs MB3 is debatableGB- yes, I'll give you MB3 > GrantKC - ? Charles vs MB3 is debatableNE- yesOAK- yes, majority will say but I think Bush is better given the chanceSkins- yes, Portis who know health-wiseSo 5 but you missed:Broncos - Moreno is not showing ANY signs of maturing and could be a bust.SD - MB3 IS better than LT RIGHT NOW TODAY and going forward, period.NYG - Bradshaw cannot stay healthy and Jacobs does not look good this year and half of last year.TB - MB3 is better than Ward and the YUGO.So actually, you have 9.Mr Two Cents said:
The $3.86 million for 2010 is relatively inexpensive. The Cowboys have Jones and Choice signed on the cheap fromtheir rookie deals. I see no reason why the Cowboys would move Barber. They have needed the RB depth the past two seasons due to injury. The only wildcard is if/when there is a change in coaches. But, if you total up how much the three backs cost the Cowboys, it is very cheap compared to production and in relation to how much the RB position costs most other teams.
bmj87
Footballguy
IF he does go to another team, it's not a question of whether or not he's better than the RB that's already in place. Some of the teams being mentioned have one quality back, but need another to split the load.
Charles has been fantastic, but he hasn't proven the ability to carry a full load over the course of a season - Barber could very easily be the thunder to his lightning.
Kevin Smith may not even be ready for training camp next year, Barber could certainly fit there.
Barber+Slaton would be a great backfield combo.
etc, etc
Charles has been fantastic, but he hasn't proven the ability to carry a full load over the course of a season - Barber could very easily be the thunder to his lightning.
Kevin Smith may not even be ready for training camp next year, Barber could certainly fit there.
Barber+Slaton would be a great backfield combo.
etc, etc
Are you seriously suggesting that Marion Barber is worse than Joshua Cribbs or Darren McFadden in any way shape or form?That is patently ridiculous.
Manster
Footballguy
remember, switz is extremely biased in his RB opinions.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I'm not exactly sure how it'll happen, but sooner or later, Felix will be their feature back (& I believe not only will he excel in that role, he'll be one of the best RBs in the league). Whether that means Barber will take a reduced role or be shipped off, I don't know.
I suspect it'll happen as soon as 2010.
I suspect it'll happen as soon as 2010.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
I definitely agree with adding SD and TB. Those were 2 of the first ones that came to mind when I estimated 10 teams.I would addPhiladelphia - There is a reason Leonard Weaver is getting carries. Barber is much better than Weaver. McCoy would get very little PT if the Eagles had a polished/complete back like Barber.I would argue for Detroit - You are overvaluing Kevin Smith coming off of injury. Plus his stats this year were worse than Barber. Really I think even McGahee could sign with Detroit and push Smith to a complimentary/3rd down role, let alone MB3.Houston - Slaton is done. The current coaching staff is sick of him. A new coaching staff will push him out the door. His stats this year were worse than Barber.Cleveland - Shouldn't overreact to one game against KC. There's a reason he was losing touches to a CFL castoff.Mr Two Cents said:
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
What happens the next week when Felix is injured?
What cap? That will be the key in my opinion. Along with performance down the stretch. I keep thinking they will give Choice more touches but they keep forcing Barber the ball. If Barber keeps playing like he did in NO and there is no cap next season then I can see them keeping him. Jones will overpay for a guy if he feels like it helps the team.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Assuming injury on a 218-pound RB who's only 22 years old is a dangerous assumption, especially one who's never had a debilitating injury & proved durable in college. The whole stigma about him not being feature-back material stemmed from being in a RBBC at Arkansas, but that was simply because they also had McFadden & Hillis. I don't see a guy who's going to be injury-prone when I look at Felix Jones. His body likely isn't even done maturing yet. Sooner or later, he'll get his chance. Felix is one of the best "buys" in dynasty leagues right now, IMO.thriftyrocker said:
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Wait. Are you suggesting that what happened in the past isn't 100% guaranteed to continue forever into the future? I mean Felix has had two injuries in two years - he's a mortal lock to spend the rest of his life in a hospital bed. Just like Frank Gore (shame he never recovered from those two ACLs, I really think he might have made it), Fred Taylor (his career tragically cut short after only two years in the league) and DeShaun Foster (not a great talent or anything, but he might have stuck around for a few years but for that rash of injuries his first few years) Jones is obviously finished before 25.Get with the program FBJ.
switz
Footballguy
Awesome post. I am wondering if people are following the NFL this year or are still basing things off last season, or even earlier.First, Barber is NOT the same back he was when he had the closing role. For those who think he would walk onto another team and take the starting role, you really haven't seen him this year. He is slow and can't maintain his intense running style throughout the game. The reason Choice is in to block on third downs is so Barber's body doesn't have to absorb the punishment.
Second, Jones is not the 200 pound RB who entered the NFL. He has NEVER had a contact injury in his career. He has become a very good inside runner, and recently has been able to handle a larger workload. His weigh increase hasn't caused a loss in speed, though the PCL injury did for a bit. People who think he's a gimmick, COP RB haven't seen him run recently.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Barber would likely be the starter or move an older RB out of the way on the following teams...New England, Buffalo, New York Jets, Miami, Cleve, Hou, Indy, Oak, SD...he likely would start for all those teams no matter what you think they might have on the roster right now...this is just the AFC, I could start another list for the NFC.Switz, you're manlove for Felix is well documented but whether Barber is there or not, Felix has not displayed anything yet that makes me think he can be the "feature" back.switz said:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You are bonafide crazy if you think MB III is worse than all those backs...dude, you are not being very honest about the quad injury he sustained and has played thru. I have never seen a guy, much less an RB for that matter drop like a sack of potatos and then play the next week like he did and every week after that. A lot of players would have just been gone. Marion Barber is definitely an elite RB that mixes power, speed, and a big untalked about element and that is heart. You're crazy if you think a guy that gets into as much trouble as Lynch does is a better option than Marion Barber for any GM, seriously your board cred takes a huge hit when I read that stuff.
There really isn't much we can talk about when you post like that.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And while I am irritable for opening this thread, let's inject some stats into this.
2006-2008 MB III had 37 TDs, name the other RBs who had more than he did during that time...short list
2006-2008 MB III had almost 120 receptions, name the RBs that had more over that 3 year span...again a short list.
2006-2008 MB III ranked 14, 7, and 16th according to FBG in terms of FF rankings not that this matters to what we are discussing but how many other RBs had 3 top15 finishes we'll say in 2006-2008? Not many I assure you.
Lot of sour grapes in this thread by people that must have hitched it to MB III too early in their drafts. And the injury this year almost makes me throw out 2009 as a real sample for what he can do.
2006-2008 MB III had 37 TDs, name the other RBs who had more than he did during that time...short list
2006-2008 MB III had almost 120 receptions, name the RBs that had more over that 3 year span...again a short list.
2006-2008 MB III ranked 14, 7, and 16th according to FBG in terms of FF rankings not that this matters to what we are discussing but how many other RBs had 3 top15 finishes we'll say in 2006-2008? Not many I assure you.
Lot of sour grapes in this thread by people that must have hitched it to MB III too early in their drafts. And the injury this year almost makes me throw out 2009 as a real sample for what he can do.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
He'd walk onto another team and get 250 touches and 10 TDs. Call it whatever you want.
Felix gets a pass for a knee but Barber doesn't for a quad that was supposed to limit him for 10 weeks.When Felix got 14 carries against NO, he averaged a pedestrian 4.1 YPC. His higher carry games have come with a lower YPC.We've all seen Felix knock off 9 yards per touch and hoped to see him do it 20 times a game (or what Harrison did last week) but that seems less realistic than MB3 being healthy and scoring more TDs. MB3's floor is doing what LT did this year for another 2 or 3 years - that's a solid RB3. Felix's floor is doing what he has done so far in the NFL - that's a RB5. Felix's ceiling may be higher, but with more risk.
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switz
Footballguy
But that's the problem. People talk about Jones like he's an injury risk, but Barber has had far more injuries in the past two years, ribs, ankle, toe, quad, etc. Barber can't handle the beating he takes with his running style, and it's his intensity that makes him successful, not a ton of talent - he's got drive, but Barber does not have speed, he just never gives up. We've been down this road before, actually the last year he split time with JJones, and people were clamoring for him to start. I've held that he is not a super talented RB that can make people miss, but rather needs to run over people to have success. In his two years as a starter, so far I'm the one whose right about him. He still hasn't (and won't) break 1,000 yards rushing. His YPC has dropped significantly. Blame it on what you want, but it's pretty clear, he's not capable of being a starting RB in the NFL.
Where did I say anything about off-field stuff? I simply said Lynch is a better RB than Barber, and he is. Stop putting stuff into my mouth I didn't say...Either way, the thread is about whether Dallas will keep him or not. They don't need him, but he makes sense as a closer for them. I don't think he stays unless he renegotiates though.
ThePittbully
Footballguy
Anyone who would choose Cribs, Harrison, Bush, or McFadden over MB3 is not seeing clearly...and you can add donald brown and jamal charles to that list as well
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
And you feeling Dallas doesn't need Barber, I got loads of Dallas season ticket owners that will disagree with you all day long. $4 million or whatever he gets paid next season is nothing when you compare to the $16 million they gave him guaranteed so I can almost assure you he will be back.Now if the question is could Dallas be solid with just Choice and Jones plus a late guy int he draft next year? Sure, I could entertain that idea, without a doubt Switz. but I think you are going about it wrong and putting down MB III every chance you get IMO makes you look foolish, and you're not a fool Switz.
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