Is QB Situation Overrated When Rating a WR/TE? (1 Viewer)

[Heep]

I was reading the other thread about Kellen Winslow and decided I wanted to start this thread. I didn't see anything in the search option, so please link me if I missed it...

Here we go. This year, I continue to read people bashing Bryant and Winslow because of their QB situation. I decided I wanted to dig deeper into this and see what I could come up with because I don't necessarily agree with the logic. In dynasty, Ive always believed you draft a player based on talent first, and then situation. Redraft is a little different, but if a player is close to someone in rankings, I tend to draft the more talented guy. I believe Braynt and Winlsow are two of the more talented players at their positions when healthy and on the field.

Let's look the past couple of years and see how that logic has worked...

2007 / 2008: Dwayne Bowe & Tony Gonzalez

- Could anyone's QB situation have been worse than Bowe and Gonzo the past 2 years? Tyler Thigpen, Brodie Croyle, and Damon Huard. Yet...

2008

Bowe: 86 catches, 1022 yards, 7 tds

Gonzo: 96 catches, 1058 yards, 10 tds

2007

Bowe: 70 catches, 995 yards, 5 tds (Rookie Season)

Gonzo: 99 catches, 1172 yards, 5 tds

2008: Calvin Johnson (78 catches, 1,3331 yards, 12 tds)

- Yes, the man is a freak. But Dan Orlovsky and Daunte Culpepper? Cmon...

2008 TJ Houshmandzadeh (92 catches, 904 yards, 4 tds)

- Ryan Fitzpatrick anyone? His yards and tds dropped, but he was a very valuable asset in PPR. If I told you Palmer would go down, and Fitzpatrick would be there for 12+ games, where would Houshs ADP have been last year?

Moss and Welker would have fallen in this category as well. If we could have seen into the future that Brady was going down for the season in Week 1 and MATT CASSELL was taking over. A guy who had never played as a starter in college football, drafted in the 7th round I believe, and starting for an NFL team?!? Really? Imagine these boards about Welker and Moss' value if that had happened Week 4 of the preseason? Where would Welker and Moss be drafted. Bad, bad, QB situation...

Chris Cooley's entire career has been with below average QBs (Campbell, Ramsey, Older Mark Brunell). He continues to be a Top 7 TE each year.

You also had the WRs with low ADPs last year because of their QB situation being rookie's or first time starters. Roddy White (Ryan), Mason (Flacco), and Jennings (Rodgers 1st full season), were all pretty good gambles last year huh? Even in dynasties. Jennings and Roddy were going 4th - 6th round. Now that seems absurd. Add in Masons 2007 103 catches, 1087 yards and 5 tds(Boller/T. Smith) and Roddy's 83 catches, 1202 yards, and 6 tds (Redman/Harrington).

Antonio Bryant 2008 with Jeff Garcia: 83 catches, 1248 yards, 7 tds

Derrick Anderson has always been a top notch QB...

2007 Braylon Edwards 80 Catches 1289 yards, 16 tds

2007 Kellen Winslow 82 catches, 1106, 5 tds

So as you can see, this is a pretty nice sized list and I only touched on 2007 and 2008. And I left out other players who I could have mentioned that had pretty good seasons with a "bad QB situation". TEs sometimes seem to do better with bad QBs (Gonzo, Cooley, Carlson, Shiancoe, Z. Miller, Olsen, Scaife, Fasano all top 12 TEs in ppr in 2008) because they are relied on so much more. I just think a lot of people are going to continue to get burned by passing on talent or pasisng on players due to a so called bad QB situation. Randy Moss was a 4th - 5th round pick in redrafts in 2007 because of Brady and NE never having 1,000 yard WRs. Not to mention Moss was 30. How'd that work out? Feel free to bash, I think this is a pretty good topic that needed to be discussed.

 

[Ray_T]

I think with TE's it's more about the offensive scheme & coaching than it is about the QB.

here is why:

TE's and RB's are often the Checkdown receiver in any given offense. Some teams will primarily use the RB, others the TE, and some will use both.

In most offenses, The TE's production will go up if the primary receivers are not so good. The TE production also will improve if the QB has a tendency to use the checkdown receiver a lot. (sometimes this goes hand in hand with the point about crappy receivers)

It is not as often that teams will run a play with the TE as the first passing option, but when the TE has significant talent, they will do it. Case in point: Gonzo, Gates, Witten.

It is my understanding that Winslow was one of those TE's because his speed creates matchup problems when he is covered by a LB.

In Tampa, my thought is that this may help the starting QB (whoever wins the job)

The only question I have is will this cut into the pass catching abilities of the RB's? or will he share Checkdown opportunities? This could mean the difference between a 700 yard season and a 1000 yard season for a TE, so I think it's a good question to ask. In Cleveland Jamal Lewis was not a big threat to catch passes out of the backfield, but I think some of the RB's in Tampa are.

I havnt watched any Tampa games as I live in Western Canada so we usually get West coast games. If any Tampa Homers can tell us what they have been doing in camp, we can probably make a better call on this issue.

 

[Max Power]

I don't think so.

Would you really want Fitz in the first if Lienart was the QB?

Look what happend to Steve Smith in 2007 when Delhomme wnet down.

 

[Heep]

I don't think so.Would you really want Fitz in the first if Lienart was the QB?Look what happend to Steve Smith in 2007 when Delhomme wnet down.

15 games played, 87 catches 1,002 yards, 7 tds? That 2007? If that's the case, that would just add to my point...

 

[Max Power]

I don't think so.Would you really want Fitz in the first if Lienart was the QB?Look what happend to Steve Smith in 2007 when Delhomme wnet down.

15 games played, 87 catches 1,002 yards, 7 tds? That 2007? If that's the case, that would just add to my point...

Weeks 1-2 W/ Delhomme 15rec 271Yds 4TDsWeeks 3-17 W/O Delhomme 72 rec 731yds 3TDSHe went from a high end #1WR to a #3WR when his QB went down