Is Shohei Ohtani the greatest baseball player of all time? (3 Viewers)

[Zow]

I was at game 5 last night, should have left after the second pitch.

dodger fan status confirmed

I can still remember watching the Kirk Gibson game on TV and when the ball went out you could see all the brake lights in the parking lot light up as people were stopping when they heard the noise. Just classic Dodger fan.

I used to complain about Dodgers fans arriving late and leaving early. Then I experienced the parking lots at Dodger Stadium.

Bill Simmons laid out the nightmare that is getting in and out of Dodger stadium in a recent podcast. Sounds pretty awful.

Are like ubers and rideshares or something not viable?

 

[Tau837]

I think you can make the argument that Ohtani has more baseball talent than anybody who has ever lived.
I don't think he's the best baseball player that has ever lived.

I look at similarly in basketball. I think LeBron is the most talented basketball player ever. I think Jordan is the best basketball player ever.

I don’t know that I would agree that he is the most talented baseball player ever. What makes him more talented than Willie Mays, for example? I know Mays did not pitch but he was great at everything else in baseball. And he showed that talent for a long, long time.

 

[Eephus]

I think you can make the argument that Ohtani has more baseball talent than anybody who has ever lived.
I don't think he's the best baseball player that has ever lived.

I look at similarly in basketball. I think LeBron is the most talented basketball player ever. I think Jordan is the best basketball player ever.

I don’t know that I would agree that he is the most talented baseball player ever. What makes him more talented than Willie Mays, for example? I know Mays did not pitch but he was great at everything else in baseball. And he showed that talent for a long, long time.

Mays provided outstanding defense at a key position for over two decades. I don't know how this balances out vs. Ohtani's pitching and DHing

 

[FarFromHome]

I just want to go on record as saying Ohtani is a generational talent no question. I also want to go on record to say I can't rank him in the same tier as Willie Fricking Mays. 24 all star selections and 12 gold gloves. A true Titan of baseball. Not yet Ohtani, not yet.

 

[Capella]

I was at game 5 last night, should have left after the second pitch.

dodger fan status confirmed

I can still remember watching the Kirk Gibson game on TV and when the ball went out you could see all the brake lights in the parking lot light up as people were stopping when they heard the noise. Just classic Dodger fan.

I used to complain about Dodgers fans arriving late and leaving early. Then I experienced the parking lots at Dodger Stadium.

Bill Simmons laid out the nightmare that is getting in and out of Dodger stadium in a recent podcast. Sounds pretty awful.

Are like ubers and rideshares or something not viable?

There’s only one way in and out. So you can use them, but it’s gonna take you a while.

People make fun of dodger fans but it’s actually crazy 40-50,000 people do that over 80 times a year.

 

[Zow]

I was at game 5 last night, should have left after the second pitch.

dodger fan status confirmed

I can still remember watching the Kirk Gibson game on TV and when the ball went out you could see all the brake lights in the parking lot light up as people were stopping when they heard the noise. Just classic Dodger fan.

I used to complain about Dodgers fans arriving late and leaving early. Then I experienced the parking lots at Dodger Stadium.

Bill Simmons laid out the nightmare that is getting in and out of Dodger stadium in a recent podcast. Sounds pretty awful.

Are like ubers and rideshares or something not viable?

There’s only one way in and out. So you can use them, but it’s gonna take you a while.

Ah, that makes sense.

 

[bagger]

When I left game 5 after it ended I ubered so you literally need to walk down to sunset or do what I did and get an illegal uber parked in the neighborhood next to the stadium. Between having to cut through bushes into the neighborhood, getting into a car that had child locks activated there was a 30% chance I was being murdered which would still be better than traffic getting out of there.

 

[bagger]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

 

[Gally]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up.

 

[falguy]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up.

I'm still a bit confused at the "ohtani rule" , but if he starts as DH only, then comes in later to pitch, they lose the DH. Is that the case? But if he starts as pitcher, then comes out, he can continue to be DH? If so, then start him, go to Glasnow an inning, or two later.

 

[Gally]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up.

I'm still a bit confused at the "ohtani rule" , but if he starts as DH only, then comes in later to pitch, they lose the DH. Is that the case? But if he starts as pitcher, then comes out, he can continue to be DH? If so, then start him, go to Glasnow an inning, or two later.

Look at it this way (for the rule). Ohtani is DH'ing for the pitcher. Doesn't matter who the pitcher is. So if he isn't pitching to start the game and then goes into the game to pitch the DH goes away because now the DH is playing in the field. In the instance he is DH'ing for Shohei the pitcher once the pitcher goes out of the game and a new pitcher goes in then Ohtani the DH is still just the DH. The DH never went into the field to play.

i still don't think they will let Ohtani pitch on 3 days rest after coming off his TJ surgery

 

[rockaction]

i still don't think they will let Ohtani pitch on 3 days rest after coming off his TJ surgery

That's Tommy John number two. I think they're crazy to risk losing his bat at all by letting him pitch on normal or extended rest.

I wouldn't let him pitch at all, but I am not sure they have full control over that, believe it or not. (They probably do.)

 

[Instinctive]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up.

I'm still a bit confused at the "ohtani rule" , but if he starts as DH only, then comes in later to pitch, they lose the DH. Is that the case? But if he starts as pitcher, then comes out, he can continue to be DH? If so, then start him, go to Glasnow an inning, or two later.

Look at it this way (for the rule). Ohtani is DH'ing for the pitcher. Doesn't matter who the pitcher is. So if he isn't pitching to start the game and then goes into the game to pitch the DH goes away because now the DH is playing in the field. In the instance he is DH'ing for Shohei the pitcher once the pitcher goes out of the game and a new pitcher goes in then Ohtani the DH is still just the DH. The DH never went into the field to play.

i still don't think they will let Ohtani pitch on 3 days rest after coming off his TJ surgery

I mean it doesn't make any more sense. Couldn't you just as easily say if Ohtani the pitcher warms up a bit and goes in that Ohtani the Dh is still DHing for the pitcher? It's silly.

 

[Gally]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up.

I'm still a bit confused at the "ohtani rule" , but if he starts as DH only, then comes in later to pitch, they lose the DH. Is that the case? But if he starts as pitcher, then comes out, he can continue to be DH? If so, then start him, go to Glasnow an inning, or two later.

Look at it this way (for the rule). Ohtani is DH'ing for the pitcher. Doesn't matter who the pitcher is. So if he isn't pitching to start the game and then goes into the game to pitch the DH goes away because now the DH is playing in the field. In the instance he is DH'ing for Shohei the pitcher once the pitcher goes out of the game and a new pitcher goes in then Ohtani the DH is still just the DH. The DH never went into the field to play.

i still don't think they will let Ohtani pitch on 3 days rest after coming off his TJ surgery

I mean it doesn't make any more sense. Couldn't you just as easily say if Ohtani the pitcher warms up a bit and goes in that Ohtani the Dh is still DHing for the pitcher? It's silly.

Kind of. Essentially at the start of the game you have a chance to have 10 positions. They enter Ohtani as the pitcher and DH so he is taking up 2 positions. When the pitcher leaves the DH is still in the game.

When it happens the other way (not starting pitching) he is only listed as a DH. When the DH goes in to play defense you no longer have a DH and you have a pitcher only.

That is the way the DH rule is stated. You lose the DH when the DH plays defense.

Softball has an even more convoluted rule with a DP (designated player). That player can be something like a defensive only player where they don't hit. But they can hit and they can be moved around the lineup spot. I have never been able to wrap my head around the rules for the DP.

 

[Instinctive]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up.

I'm still a bit confused at the "ohtani rule" , but if he starts as DH only, then comes in later to pitch, they lose the DH. Is that the case? But if he starts as pitcher, then comes out, he can continue to be DH? If so, then start him, go to Glasnow an inning, or two later.

Look at it this way (for the rule). Ohtani is DH'ing for the pitcher. Doesn't matter who the pitcher is. So if he isn't pitching to start the game and then goes into the game to pitch the DH goes away because now the DH is playing in the field. In the instance he is DH'ing for Shohei the pitcher once the pitcher goes out of the game and a new pitcher goes in then Ohtani the DH is still just the DH. The DH never went into the field to play.

i still don't think they will let Ohtani pitch on 3 days rest after coming off his TJ surgery

I mean it doesn't make any more sense. Couldn't you just as easily say if Ohtani the pitcher warms up a bit and goes in that Ohtani the Dh is still DHing for the pitcher? It's silly.

Kind of. Essentially at the start of the game you have a chance to have 10 positions. They enter Ohtani as the pitcher and DH so he is taking up 2 positions. When the pitcher leaves the DH is still in the game.

When it happens the other way (not starting pitching) he is only listed as a DH. When the DH goes in to play defense you no longer have a DH and you have a pitcher only.

That is the way the DH rule is stated. You lose the DH when the DH plays defense.

Softball has an even more convoluted rule with a DP (designated player). That player can be something like a defensive only player where they don't hit. But they can hit and they can be moved around the lineup spot. I have never been able to wrap my head around the rules for the DP.

Right. I'm pointing out that it's stupid that they look at it differently. If I bring in some other pitcher out of the bullpen, I don't lose my DH.

I understand it and how it's applied. I am just pointing out that its dumb.

You have 10 positions the entire game. Ohtani the DH isn't entering the field. Ohtani the guy in the bullpen with all the other pitchers in the bullpen is entering. That's all.

It's not the same as putting him in CF.

 

[bagger]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up

 

[Gally]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up

Glanow only threw 3 pitches. He could still start but in general I was shocked. I am really surprised they would put Ohtani at risk on 3 days rest. But it is game 7. I just wouldn't do it.

 

[Tau837]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up

Glanow only threw 3 pitches. He could still start but in general I was shocked. I am really surprised they would put Ohtani at risk on 3 days rest. But it is game 7. I just wouldn't do it.

They could be planning to start Ohtani with Glasnow as first reliever if game situation drives them to pull Ohtani before late innings. Then go to the rest of the bullpen. Ohtani gets to pitch and play DH all game, but they also get Glasnow if needed.

 

[Gally]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up

Glanow only threw 3 pitches. He could still start but in general I was shocked. I am really surprised they would put Ohtani at risk on 3 days rest. But it is game 7. I just wouldn't do it.

They could be planning to start Ohtani with Glasnow as first reliever if game situation drives them to pull Ohtani before late innings. Then go to the rest of the bullpen. Ohtani gets to pitch and play DH all game, but they also get Glasnow if needed.

I assume that is the plan. I would guess Ohtani would be capped at 60-ish pitches but he has to start on the mound if they planned to use him at all. Glasnow probably 1st in relief

 

[Instinctive]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up

Glanow only threw 3 pitches. He could still start but in general I was shocked. I am really surprised they would put Ohtani at risk on 3 days rest. But it is game 7. I just wouldn't do it.

They could be planning to start Ohtani with Glasnow as first reliever if game situation drives them to pull Ohtani before late innings. Then go to the rest of the bullpen. Ohtani gets to pitch and play DH all game, but they also get Glasnow if needed.

I assume that is the plan. I would guess Ohtani would be capped at 60-ish pitches but he has to start on the mound if they planned to use him at all. Glasnow probably 1st in relief

I mean you could double switch him to the field still right? If he came on in relief? I guess then you'd be limiting any other relievers to being PH for every time a P comes up.

 

[Zegras11]

Ohtani is starting pitcher

 

[Capella]

Ohtani is starting pitcher

Must see tv

 

[FarFromHome]

If he is the greatest player of all time, then in game 7 of World Series, the floor is 5 strong innings pitched and 2 homers.

 

[bagger]

I bet they split Ohtani and Glasnow. All other relievers in street clothes with their gloves confiscated so they cannot get on the field under any circumstance.

 

[Gally]

This is all setting up for a game 7 ohtani pitching game. Nobody will doubt him as the greatest once the dodgers win in 7.

I would be surprised they use Ohtani on short rest especially when it's Glasnow's turn to be up

Glanow only threw 3 pitches. He could still start but in general I was shocked. I am really surprised they would put Ohtani at risk on 3 days rest. But it is game 7. I just wouldn't do it.

They could be planning to start Ohtani with Glasnow as first reliever if game situation drives them to pull Ohtani before late innings. Then go to the rest of the bullpen. Ohtani gets to pitch and play DH all game, but they also get Glasnow if needed.

I assume that is the plan. I would guess Ohtani would be capped at 60-ish pitches but he has to start on the mound if they planned to use him at all. Glasnow probably 1st in relief

I mean you could double switch him to the field still right? If he came on in relief? I guess then you'd be limiting any other relievers to being PH for every time a P comes up.

Yes. If he came in to relieve he would have to go to another defensive position when done pitching in order to stay in the lineup and then the Dodgers would be playing a straight 9 with no DH.

 

[drummer]

The odd thing here is that people are comparing Otani to Babe Ruth when Ruth didn't have digital media on demand on an iPad or PitchCom.

That should be /thread.

 

[drummer]

When you surround him with a team that would break the bank of a small nation...

Edit: his post season was really *** except for game four, and Teooscar and Muncy came though, but tim doesn't watch sports, or know much about them, so you have this as a thread in the FFA.

The Dodger pitching is why they are back in the WS. If it weren't for Roberts tossing a bone to Clayton Chokeshaw in the post season, they could had posted a perfect win total despite Otahni's really poor post season stretch. He was *** this post season. The betting markets had Freeman the NLCS MVP until game four. Edman was the NLCS MVP last NLCS with Ohtani on the team. . Onve again. tim has no idea of what he is talking about.

I have no idea why you want to personally insult me.
Also, I never raised the subject of whether or not the Dodgers are a great team or if Ohtani is the reason they are a great team. So your entire response here is irrelevant.

I thought it was an interesting topic of conversation. I am certainly not the only one who has raised it. It’s all over sports talk. I thought it would be fun to get people to talk about it here. Judging by the responses I was right about that. If you disagree why bother posting?

Because you posted this after game 4 of the NLCS. A better argument would had been "Is Otahni the greatest Dodger of all time?". Because he's not the greatest baseball player of all time. He might not even be the best Dodger of all time.

And hey, you're not a victim here. You ask a question like that in any sports bar where there are fans of baseball and they would think you don't follow baseball and say it to your face.

I think someone needs to explain to you the difference between a question and an 'argument.'

From the OP "It’s a question, not a statement."

I get you and am loathe to encourage drummer, but this is tim. He often is making implicit arguments just by asking the question. It's forgivable if somebody reads into it a bit.

PitchCom. Ruth didn't have that, or and iPad.

Edit: nobody speaks "drummer" better than I can. Because after so many years here, I can at least know the effect of the iPhone lol.

 

[drummer]

When you surround him with a team that would break the bank of a small nation...

Edit: his post season was really *** except for game four, and Teooscar and Muncy came though, but tim doesn't watch sports, or know much about them, so you have this as a thread in the FFA.

The Dodger pitching is why they are back in the WS. If it weren't for Roberts tossing a bone to Clayton Chokeshaw in the post season, they could had posted a perfect win total despite Otahni's really poor post season stretch. He was *** this post season. The betting markets had Freeman the NLCS MVP until game four. Edman was the NLCS MVP last NLCS with Ohtani on the team. . Onve again. tim has no idea of what he is talking about.

I have no idea why you want to personally insult me.
Also, I never raised the subject of whether or not the Dodgers are a great team or if Ohtani is the reason they are a great team. So your entire response here is irrelevant.

I thought it was an interesting topic of conversation. I am certainly not the only one who has raised it. It’s all over sports talk. I thought it would be fun to get people to talk about it here. Judging by the responses I was right about that. If you disagree why bother posting?

Because you posted this after game 4 of the NLCS. A better argument would had been "Is Otahni the greatest Dodger of all time?". Because he's not the greatest baseball player of all time. He might not even be the best Dodger of all time.

And hey, you're not a victim here. You ask a question like that in any sports bar where there are fans of baseball and they would think you don't follow baseball and say it to your face.

I think someone needs to explain to you the difference between a question and an 'argument.'

From the OP "It’s a question, not a statement."

I get you and am loathe to encourage drummer, but this is tim. He often is making implicit arguments just by asking the question. It's forgivable if somebody reads into it a bit.

PitchCom. Ruth didn't have that, or and iPad.

Now we wait for tim to start "Is Yamamoto the greatest Dodger and baseball pitcher ever?"

 

[timschochet]

When you surround him with a team that would break the bank of a small nation...

Edit: his post season was really *** except for game four, and Teooscar and Muncy came though, but tim doesn't watch sports, or know much about them, so you have this as a thread in the FFA.

The Dodger pitching is why they are back in the WS. If it weren't for Roberts tossing a bone to Clayton Chokeshaw in the post season, they could had posted a perfect win total despite Otahni's really poor post season stretch. He was *** this post season. The betting markets had Freeman the NLCS MVP until game four. Edman was the NLCS MVP last NLCS with Ohtani on the team. . Onve again. tim has no idea of what he is talking about.

I have no idea why you want to personally insult me.
Also, I never raised the subject of whether or not the Dodgers are a great team or if Ohtani is the reason they are a great team. So your entire response here is irrelevant.

I thought it was an interesting topic of conversation. I am certainly not the only one who has raised it. It’s all over sports talk. I thought it would be fun to get people to talk about it here. Judging by the responses I was right about that. If you disagree why bother posting?

Because you posted this after game 4 of the NLCS. A better argument would had been "Is Otahni the greatest Dodger of all time?". Because he's not the greatest baseball player of all time. He might not even be the best Dodger of all time.

And hey, you're not a victim here. You ask a question like that in any sports bar where there are fans of baseball and they would think you don't follow baseball and say it to your face.

I think someone needs to explain to you the difference between a question and an 'argument.'

From the OP "It’s a question, not a statement."

I get you and am loathe to encourage drummer, but this is tim. He often is making implicit arguments just by asking the question. It's forgivable if somebody reads into it a bit.

PitchCom. Ruth didn't have that, or and iPad.

Now we wait for tim to start "Is Yamamoto the greatest Dodger and baseball pitcher ever?"

I’ve tried to be patient with you but whatever dude. I don’t really follow your posting very much but you’re really behaving like a jerk in this thread.

Again- I asked the question because I had read a few articles speculating that it is so, and I thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion. Other than your posts it has been. Personally I have no idea if Ohtani is the greatest player ever; though I’ve read my share of baseball history I don’t pretend to be an expert. I know that he is pretty much the only guy in modern times to be an ace starting pitcher and an ace power hitter at the same time and that should put him in consideration. Beyond that I don’t know, and I wanted to get other people’s opinions.

I strongly suspect your animosity towards me is rooted in my previous posts in this forum about politics, and/or my posts in another forum currently on the same topic. If so that’s your problem not mine.

 

[drummer]

When you surround him with a team that would break the bank of a small nation...

Edit: his post season was really *** except for game four, and Teooscar and Muncy came though, but tim doesn't watch sports, or know much about them, so you have this as a thread in the FFA.

The Dodger pitching is why they are back in the WS. If it weren't for Roberts tossing a bone to Clayton Chokeshaw in the post season, they could had posted a perfect win total despite Otahni's really poor post season stretch. He was *** this post season. The betting markets had Freeman the NLCS MVP until game four. Edman was the NLCS MVP last NLCS with Ohtani on the team. . Onve again. tim has no idea of what he is talking about.

I have no idea why you want to personally insult me.
Also, I never raised the subject of whether or not the Dodgers are a great team or if Ohtani is the reason they are a great team. So your entire response here is irrelevant.

I thought it was an interesting topic of conversation. I am certainly not the only one who has raised it. It’s all over sports talk. I thought it would be fun to get people to talk about it here. Judging by the responses I was right about that. If you disagree why bother posting?

Because you posted this after game 4 of the NLCS. A better argument would had been "Is Otahni the greatest Dodger of all time?". Because he's not the greatest baseball player of all time. He might not even be the best Dodger of all time.

And hey, you're not a victim here. You ask a question like that in any sports bar where there are fans of baseball and they would think you don't follow baseball and say it to your face.

I think someone needs to explain to you the difference between a question and an 'argument.'

From the OP "It’s a question, not a statement."

I get you and am loathe to encourage drummer, but this is tim. He often is making implicit arguments just by asking the question. It's forgivable if somebody reads into it a bit.

PitchCom. Ruth didn't have that, or and iPad.

Now we wait for tim to start "Is Yamamoto the greatest Dodger and baseball pitcher ever?"

I’ve tried to be patient with you but whatever dude. I don’t really follow your posting very much but you’re really behaving like a jerk in this thread.

Again- I asked the question because I had read a few articles speculating that it is so, and I thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion. Other than your posts it has been. Personally I have no idea if Ohtani is the greatest player ever; though I’ve read my share of baseball history I don’t pretend to be an expert. I know that he is pretty much the only guy in modern times to be an ace starting pitcher and an ace power hitter at the same time and that should put him in consideration. Beyond that I don’t know, and I wanted to get other people’s opinions.

I strongly suspect your animosity towards me is rooted in my previous posts in this forum about politics, and/or my posts in another forum currently on the same topic. If so that’s your problem not mine.

You're like a chihuahua in a purse who comes leaps out of it to bark at the FFA and ankle bite while clamoring as the victim when someone kicks you off the their cuff, only to run back to the owner (FBG Mod) because the Big Dogs came out to play. Who you are and what you are still here is an old relic of a model of message boards. You are so far behind the curve in the social media scptrum that you're own spectrum of social challenges has always shown that you are the oppressed, you're always the victim, and then you use say a lost family member as a proxy for another of your bad takes.

If anything was shown tonight that your take was just another attention ankle bite, it really not knowing how much the Dodgers invested into their pitching staff, how technology has the catcher not having to call signs, and how Dodger manger Dave Roberts is basically the CEO of a division of a large billion dollar corporation that did not exist when Babe Ruth played baseball at the start of WWI to almost WWII lol. You're so comfortable and safe here than in today's social media platforms - where the FFA is a place for old boomers now - that your take here if you had a real social media footprint that is relevant would had many challenges that take.

You're just too safe, and comfortable inside the beaded purse of the FFA. To where you don't care anymore about the FFA. Because you're a reason why many don't care about it.

BTW: to show how far behind and gatekept the FFA is today to where you can't talk culture and politics anymore (thank in part due to tim and another former member who we can't name because of whatever violations doing that will prompt a ban):

I asked Grok who the greatest baseball player of all time is:

Grok's output says:

Babe Ruth.

Flowers to Elon Musk and his determination of free speech and truth.