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Is there a way to balance scoring across positions? (1 Viewer)

StuntRock

Footballguy
I'm currently in the process of attempting to draft some bylaws for a startup dynasty league, and one thing I think would help the competitive balance of the league would be balancing the value of the various positions against one another. I'm not entirely certain this can be done, but I'd like the input of anyone whose attempted something similar before.

Is it truly possible to balance positions, or is there a drastic enough dropoff in production after the top players at positions like TE, DE, and so forth that it's impossible to make DL and DBs as valuable as LBs? Or TE's who aren't named Gates, Shockey or Gonzalez relatively close in value to the other O skill positions?

 
The only thing that I've done in my leagues is ppr. Whether it's a full point or half or whatever, ppr balances out WRs and RBs. As far as QBs are concerned, you could consider giving points for completions. I don't participate in idp leagues, but it's hard to balance those players out since their stats are all judged the same. RBs and LBs will always be the most important reguardless of scoring system. You can't base one position vs. another. You can only base a player's value against others at the same position. It comes down to VBD. It's the whole reason you use Footballguys.com right?

 
RBs and LBs will always be the most important reguardless of scoring system.
True, but adjusting starting requirements is the easiest way to even the value of players. For example, I put 1QB, 1rb, 2wr and 1 TE into draft dominator as the starting requirements with all TD's being worth 6pts and the top ten based on VBD were as follows...TomlinsonManningS JacksonLJPalmerGoreBradyS SmithC Johnson A Gates(Hope it is OK to post this for purposes of this discussion???)I don't do any IDP, but I think adjustion starting requirements is the easiest way to change player value. If you play around with that and points I think you could find the balance you are looking for.
 
...I think adjustion starting requirements is the easiest way to change player value. If you play around with that and points I think you could find the balance you are looking for.
:goodposting: a few leagues that I know of allow 0-2 RBs and 3-5 WRs to start. RBs are still very important, but WRs are pretty much equal in this format.Almost no matter what you do, LT, SJax and perhaps LJ are going to be the most valuable players, but I like it when the 2nd tier and lower RBs aren't more valuable than stud WRs. Starting requirements are the best way to do this.
 
It's not impossible but it's pretty difficult.

You'll have to have the same stat worth different amounts to different positions, i.e. tackles greater for DL or PD more for CB or PPR higher for TE as suggested above. You can use sack yardage, interception yardage etc. to fiddle with the numbers.

I'd suggest projecting a stat line for a mid starting prospect at each position (eg RB6, QB6, LB6 across the board) and playing with the scoring requirements in a spreadsheet to make the year end point totals nearly equal.

 
Here is what I have seen work effectively:

Flexible lineups:

Must start 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 or 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 or 2 flex (either RB, WR or TE)

All TDs = 6 points

interceptions = 0 points (or only -1 points)

RB PPR = 0.5

WR PPR = 1

TE PPR = 2

This does a pretty good job as it devalues RBs a bit while increasing the value of the other skill positions.

 
If you want true parity, use your "regular" scoring system to come up with points with which to rank starting players at each position, and then give the high scorer at every position the same points, the 2nd highest scorer at each position the same points, etc.

But, that would suck if you ask me. I have a dynasty league with near-parity across the offensive positions in a different way. I did not want the defense to be equivalent to the offense.

Anyway, we start 1 QB, 2 RB, 1 flex QB/RB. 4 WR, 2 TE, 1 flex WR/TE. Most times teams will start 2 QB, 2 RB, 5 WR and 2 TE, though we normally have at least one team go with 3 RB or 3 TE if they have several top ones. We use staggered PPR with .25 for RB, .5 WR, and 1pt rec for TE. We also start a full 4-3 defense at IDP (with DE, DT, CB and S as separate positions), a head coach, a kicker, a punter, and a team kick return unit, for 26 starting players each week.

In the initial auction which followed the 2004 season, if I had used my "most likely" 2005 projections for a cheatsheet using VBD, it would have looked like:

QB Peyton

TE Gonzo

WR Moss

RB LT

TE Gates

WR Holt

WR C. Johnson

WR Harrison

WR Owens

RB Priest

RB SA

QB Culpepper

TE Witten

WR Wayne

The actual 2005 results had the top RB, WR and TE all with VBD values within a fraction of a PPG of each other, with the top QB just a little behind them. You can build your team in this league pretty much however you want. I have had the highest scoring team the first two seasons and I built my team around my WRs with decent to good players at the other positions.

 
I don't do any IDP, but I think adjustion starting requirements is the easiest way to change player value. If you play around with that and points I think you could find the balance you are looking for.
I agree. The problem isn't that some positions score more points than others (for instance, the top TE is usually worthy of a second round pick despite having nowhere NEAR a top-25 point total, and a kicker could lead your league in scoring and still not be worth taking in the first 10 rounds). The big problem is one of SCARCITY. RBs are worth more because there are fewer of them to go around.Think of it this way. There are 32 NFL teams. That means, assuming everyone uses a pretty average offense (1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 FB or second TE), there are 32 starting QBs, 32 starting RBs, 64 starting WRs, and 32 starting TEs (assuming the second TE is primarily a blocking TE).Now, if you have a 12-team league that starts 1 QB, 2 RBs, 3 WRs, and 1 TE, your league will start 12 QBs, 24 RBs, 36 WRs, and 12 TEs. That's 12/32 or 37.5% of the starting QBs, 24/32 or 75% of the starting RBs, 36/64 or 56% of the starting WRs, and 12/32 or 37.5% of the starting TEs. Not coincidentally, the most valuable position is RB, followed by WR, then QB and TE. Even if you figure that there are 8 RBBC teams out there that will produce two RBs worth considering (a bit on the high side, but there's definitely Jax, NO, Atl, maybe Min, maybe a couple of others), that's still 24 starters out of 40 options at RB, which still leads the way with 60%.You could try to tinker with the scoring system to make the VBD scores of the top players at a certain position much higher, but then you run the risk of someone putting up a record-setting season and destroying your league (for instance, woe to any league that gives 2 points per TE reception in a season where Antonio Gates gets 120 receptions, because you can kiss competitive balance goodbye). I think it'd be much easier to tinker with starting requirements until you have an even ratio of starters at all positions. That could be achieved with 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 WRs, and 1 TE... or else 2 QBs, 2 RBs, 4 WRs, and 2 TEs. Either should shift the balance of power away from mediocre RBs pretty nicely. Be wary of using a Flex spot unless you actually DO balance the scoring so that everyone scores similar point totals, because otherwise the Flex Spot will just shift the balance towards whatever position posts the highest average weekly score (generally QBs or RBs).
 
Field a full team minus o-line, allow different line-ups (formation sets) and tweak the scoring to even out the value.

ppr: TE > WR > RB

tackles: DL > DB > LB

 
A few years ago a board member by the name of "Sand" did a great analysis of data showing how for various league sizes, adjusting the scoring and roster requirements could "equilibrate" (that was in the title of his writeup...maybe "equilibration of scoring" or something) across QB, RB, WR, and TE. This didn't take K, DEF, or any IDP into account. In general, we have implemented this in my 14 team league and it has worked nicely. We haven't really tinkered too much with K scoring and our IDP system has made IDP positions equal with each other, but not necessarily equal with the offensive guys. Good luck!

 
You can balance it if you remove the QB, RB and WR from the format. Or you can make adjustments to your scoring/starter requirements based on what happened the year before. But it's not like that you resolve issues every year. There will always be someone that turns your system upside down.

I would suggest finding a good compromise that all in your league can live with. You can use the DD to trial different scoring systems and starting requirements in order to find the VBD numbers and see what you like. Good luck.

 
...Be wary of using a Flex spot unless you actually DO balance the scoring so that everyone scores similar point totals, because otherwise the Flex Spot will just shift the balance towards whatever position posts the highest average weekly score (generally QBs or RBs).
Actually I suggest making a 2nd QB spot into a flex QB/RB, assuming that your 13-24 QBs outscore your 25-36 RBs. Reason being that the biggest complaint about 2 QB leagues is that there aren't enough starters in the NFL for everyone to have a bye week filler. If you have the position as a flex, most teams will be best off starting a 2nd QB, but if they have a bye week or bad injury luck and are down to 1 starter, they can at least plug in a RB who will get some touches.
 
i have been working with the same issues. what i did(not sure if it will work) was to make the flex position a true flex. meaning that you can play any starting position as a flex.so every team can play their stengths.rb's will always be higher valued,cus they are harder to get.but with the scoring i have set up the top d and kicker will score a lot of points. so every team should be a contender.then it all comes down to what players will step up. i want people to win with guys that produce,and i dont care what psoition they play.it should be a fun experiment

btw the team in my sig is from another league

 
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In the league I ran last year (which was my first attempt at RUNNING a league), I had a pretty basic setup, with 1 PPR.

I think our final 25 had 10 RBs, 9WRs, and 6QBs; it was something along those lines. I've been complimented the whole off-season for the league's balance last year.

 
i kept a standard lineup of 1/2/3/1 with flex (RB/WR/TE)

i added PPR to boost the WRs and i gave 1 pt to TEs for every 6 yds recieving

this adjusted the RB/WR/TE positions as similar value

2 years ago (2005) put gates at the #4 spot in FF scoring, and shockey 22, heap 26

steve smith was #7, fitz, chad, holt were 12, 13, 14

so top 26 saw

9 QBs

6 RBs

8 WRs

3 TEs

 
Here is what I have seen work effectively:Flexible lineups:Must start 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 or 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 or 2 flex (either RB, WR or TE)All TDs = 6 points interceptions = 0 points (or only -1 points)RB PPR = 0.5WR PPR = 1TE PPR = 2This does a pretty good job as it devalues RBs a bit while increasing the value of the other skill positions.
I'll 2nd this. We have a very similar format in one of my leagues (we use 0/.5/1 PPR for RB/WR/TE respectively but it accomplishes the same goal) and it does a VERY good job of balancing the positions. You can make a good case for EVERY position being very important. A good TE for example is surprisingly valuable with this setup. WRs are just as important as RB typically, and QB can be crucial.As others have said, it's not really about scoring as much as it is about lineup requirements. Not only that, if you think about it, the typical 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 QB fantasy formation is not all that "natural" relative to today's real NFL anyway.
 
As others have already said, changing the starting requirements had much more effect on value than scoring changes do. The Draft Dominator is great for playing around with stuff like this. Put in different lineup/scoring options & watch what happens.

A very rough ratio of evening out value across the Big 3 O spots is to start an equal amount of QBs & RBs, with twice as many WRs. Again, that's very rough but it's closer than 1-2-2 (or even 3) that many leagues use.

 
We've been doing this for 12 years now: QB's are actually the most valuable....just like in the NFL. The top QB's score about 2x the other positions. The top RB, WR, K, DT all score just about the same # of points. The top TE scores about 1/2 the top other positions. He's not as valuable...just like in the NFL. This keeps your hack owners interested since they suck at scouting. They can get lucky with a D or K but most likely won't win it all. They certainly won't dominate. RB's are certainly not as valuable as a QB in the NFL for the most part. I can name more QB's, that if they got hurt, the team would totally suck, than I can RB's.

RB's should never be the most valuable in a league. Never could figure that out why everyone thinks they should be.

 
I'm currently in the process of attempting to draft some bylaws for a startup dynasty league, and one thing I think would help the competitive balance of the league would be balancing the value of the various positions against one another. I'm not entirely certain this can be done, but I'd like the input of anyone whose attempted something similar before.Is it truly possible to balance positions, or is there a drastic enough dropoff in production after the top players at positions like TE, DE, and so forth that it's impossible to make DL and DBs as valuable as LBs? Or TE's who aren't named Gates, Shockey or Gonzalez relatively close in value to the other O skill positions?
I think the best thing that you can do to help competative balance is to have close to a standard scoring system as possible so that anyone who joins would be able to seemlessly evaluate the playing field instead of trying to view whatever scoring rules you arbitrarily punch in to try and 'try' and level the playing field thru that prism. Tweaking of standard rules is fine but major changes cause havoc. If all participants know how to properly evaluate players then it negates the biggest advantage a shark has going into a league which is knowing how to use rules meant to balance out the playing field as a fulcrum to gain an advantage. Their is always luck so how teams get slotted to select in the initial draft could be an advantage but if all players knew how to value players properly then less poor choices would take place and no shark advantage would happen from the get-go. Sharks will emerge over time but in starting out a new league you should keep scoring close to standard as much as possible. I believe that will do more to balance the playing field than any rule changes meant to make player evaluations more fair.And to voice my biggest pet-peeve from the leagues here that stray from standard rules in one way I destest. The worst non-standard scoring rule I see here for dynasty shark leagues is PPR. How pathetic? Award a guy a point just for catching a ball? Come on. It would be like giving points to RBs for taking a hand off or to QBs for making a throw. Award players for what they do with the ball once they have it not for simply getting the ball into their hands. If they catch the ball thirty yards downfield then they get the points for the POSITIVE play. Also if you incorporate any defense then go IDP. If you go entire defenses then that is just lazy and allows the 'luck factor' to take too much precidence. If you've never done IDPs it may be daunting at first so start with a plan of basic sparse IDP positions to allow the league to learn the values. Limit IDP rosters so that no team can horde stud IDP players for the first year or so and then increase IDP roster spots with well stated plan so that owners could plan accordingly. The only scoring rule tweaks that we have is:- 4pts per passing TD for QBs so that QBs are not overvalued (this has actually become standard scoring for QBs)- negative 2pts per INT/FUM to denote negative plays (this may also be considered standard scoring)- 2pts bonus points for rush/rec/passing TDs exceeding 40 yards (this is not standard and doesn't happen very often but it adds an added element of excitement when a big play occurs, also late in a contest when you would be normally be mathematically out of a contest with the bonus you still have a glimmer of hope. Bottom line is this rule is not standard but its just fun.)IDP scoring- 1pt per solo tackle (standard but some award ALL tackles a point and that can really skew point totals)- .5 pt per every three assisted tackles (assists originally were awarded no points so this rule change fixed that gap)- 4 pts per sack (this was an origial rule to give defensive linemen some value but it awards stud LBers as well)- 4 pts per INT (this was an original idea to give DBs value)- 1pt per PD (Pass Defensed. To help boost DB value and is considered standard)The only way we stray from standard scoring is bonus points for long scoring plays and with some of the IDP scoring. Our roster format is also close to standard with twelve owners which is the standard and rosters consisting of:1QB, 1RB, 2WRs, 1TE, 1flex of RB/WR/TE, 1K, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB. Originally we only had one DL but one owner wanted it changed. That caused problems beacuase we did not originally begin with that idea to increase IDPs and some owners did not plan for it. So if you begin with any sort of format that is open for change then only make minor changes and forwarn your league so they can plan accordingly. Also if you have the players then solicit them for how they want the league set up. I would never join a non-IDP league or one with PPR so if you have your players in place you should ask them how they want the league set up from the start and go over the positive/negatives of each rule you are considering. Good luck. :confused:
 
I am considering moving to 2QB start in 2008 in keep-5 auction league (1 PPR all recs, 1pt/10 yd rush or rec, 1pt/25 yd pass, all TDs= 6pts, -2 INTs). Already starting 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1PK, 1 DEF (with 1 QB).

The top 20 in my league consisted of 7RBs, 5 QBs, 3 WRs, and 5 DEFs. I plan to adjust DEF strength downward with some scoring tweaks. If the adjustments are successful and bring out the DEF from the top 20 (not looking to do it entirely, but 5 is too much), the breakdown would be 8RBs, 5QBs, and 7WRs.

The reason I will be advocating for 2QB start is to bring value to the tier 2 QBs. Last season there were only 6 QBs drafted for >$10 (200 cap) with Manning at 57, and Palmer at 42. For the rest of the QBs to be valued so low in comparison to the top 6 (in my estimation) is not in the best interest of the league. With tweaking of the starting roster to 2QB, I should put more financial value on the QB position, and I am considering moving INTs to -1 instead of -2 to even out the QBs with the WRs and RBs a bit more.

That should take care of everything but TE. I might just give TEs 1.5/rec to give them a small uptick, but I don't want the TE5 to ever be equal to RB5, WR5, or QB5 so I plan to minimize any changes in regard to trying to make TE an impact position to the same extent that I have with the other positions.

 
...I think the best thing that you can do to help competative balance is to have close to a standard scoring system as possible so that anyone who joins would be able to seemlessly evaluate the playing field instead of trying to view whatever scoring rules you arbitrarily punch in to try and 'try' and level the playing field thru that prism.
I have really mixed feelings about this advice. Yes, owners who don't know what they are doing are hurt more when they can't go download a cheatsheet off the net and have it apply perfectly to their league.But that also doesn't deal at all with the competitive balance part the OP seemed to me to want to deal with, which is the the top 1-3 RBs being so overvalued vs other positions that having one of them is a huge advantage.I guess I wouldn't recommend what you're suggesting, of dumbing down a league to the lowest common denominator. If you want a competitive league without the uber-stud RBs, you balance the value across positions and either get good owners in your league, or educate the existing owners as to how to determine value.
Tweaking of standard rules is fine but major changes cause havoc. If all participants know how to properly evaluate players then it negates the biggest advantage a shark has going into a league which is knowing how to use rules meant to balance out the playing field as a fulcrum to gain an advantage. Their is always luck so how teams get slotted to select in the initial draft could be an advantage but if all players knew how to value players properly then less poor choices would take place and no shark advantage would happen from the get-go.
And I didn't agree there. If the problem is players not knowing how to value players, then teach them how to value them. What you're advocating isn't making them better owners, it's letting them get by without knowing what they are doing by catering to the content they can find for free on the web.
The only scoring rule tweaks that we have is:- 4pts per passing TD for QBs so that QBs are not overvalued (this has actually become standard scoring for QBs)
One of my pet peeves here... 4 pt TDs USED to be standard scoring, but statistics from sites like MFL have shown that 6 pt passing TDs have become the standard by a good margin. In fact there's been some pretty big threads here about it urging FBG's to go to 6 pt TDs in their standard scoring as a result.
 
I will add my vote to manipulating supply and demand.

I hate PPR and am not fond of Flex.

We run a league that starts 2 QB, 2 RB, 4 WR, 2 TE, 2 DEF/ST, 2 PK.

QBS and WRs have good value relative to RBs. I have seen an owner take 2 QBs in first 4 rounds and do well, I have seen 3 WRs in first 4 rounds do well. Oh, and stud RB works out well too.

 
There was a report and study done on equalization of positions with stats/graphs etc. backing up the data.

It was in a previous thread and was very informative.

I think the outcome was basically that you need to add a second QB into the starting lineup and have PPR.

Changing the scoring will never fully equalize positions, to actually equalize positions, you need to adjust the number of starters at each position.

 
...Be wary of using a Flex spot unless you actually DO balance the scoring so that everyone scores similar point totals, because otherwise the Flex Spot will just shift the balance towards whatever position posts the highest average weekly score (generally QBs or RBs).
Actually I suggest making a 2nd QB spot into a flex QB/RB, assuming that your 13-24 QBs outscore your 25-36 RBs. Reason being that the biggest complaint about 2 QB leagues is that there aren't enough starters in the NFL for everyone to have a bye week filler. If you have the position as a flex, most teams will be best off starting a 2nd QB, but if they have a bye week or bad injury luck and are down to 1 starter, they can at least plug in a RB who will get some touches.
I actually really love this suggestion. :lmao:
 
One additional suggestion, in addition to the other ones in this thread, is to increase the Team Defense scoring too. In my "balanced league" we deduct 0.5 points per point allowed by a defense. You can establish an arbitrary value of, say, 15 for a shut out. If a team allows 10 points, you subtract 5 from that and give them 10 points plus whatever they get from INTs, TDs, etc. This makes defenses more valuable and more predictable since Points Allowed is a little more predictable than things like INTs.

 
Here is what I have seen work effectively:Flexible lineups:Must start 1 QB, 1 RB, 2 or 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 or 2 flex (either RB, WR or TE)All TDs = 6 points interceptions = 0 points (or only -1 points)RB PPR = 0.5WR PPR = 1TE PPR = 2This does a pretty good job as it devalues RBs a bit while increasing the value of the other skill positions.
The one thing I don't like is 6 pts per passing TD. I think that overvalues QBs a bit. I'd cut it to 4 points.
 
...I think the best thing that you can do to help competative balance is to have close to a standard scoring system as possible so that anyone who joins would be able to seemlessly evaluate the playing field instead of trying to view whatever scoring rules you arbitrarily punch in to try and 'try' and level the playing field thru that prism.
I have really mixed feelings about this advice. Yes, owners who don't know what they are doing are hurt more when they can't go download a cheatsheet off the net and have it apply perfectly to their league.But that also doesn't deal at all with the competitive balance part the OP seemed to me to want to deal with, which is the the top 1-3 RBs being so overvalued vs other positions that having one of them is a huge advantage.
Having a more standard scoring system helps owners who know how to evaluate players because no loophole is ripe for the plucking in a standard scoring league or people would be taking advantage of it. RBs should be valued more if they score more points. A few years ago Peyton Manning and Daunte Culpepper dominated scoring as they should have because they produced more. Last year LdT had a record breaking season and dominated and he should have. Looking from a longer time span RBs produce more than WRs/TEs annually but they have shorter NFL lives on average. So over the course of the NFL life of the player RBs should be able to score more over a shorter time span to reflect their impact. If they produce more they should be rewarded more. Its that simple. As far as being able to deal with the fact that some teams will have top RBs and others won't, well some teams will have injuries and others won't, some will have top QBs and others won't, some teams will be perrenially snake bitten and others won't. I don't think anyone who advocates using close to standard scoring is advocating anything unfair. In starting up a league everyone should be as even as possible especially in their ability to judge players on an equal footing and everyone should be versed in standard league scoring.
I guess I wouldn't recommend what you're suggesting, of dumbing down a league to the lowest common denominator. If you want a competitive league without the uber-stud RBs, you balance the value across positions and either get good owners in your league, or educate the existing owners as to how to determine value.
I want uber stud RBs and QBs and WRs and TEs and LBs, etc, et el... I know if everyone is able to judge talent on an equal footing that I'm not going to have an all uber stud team but I like my chances over time of being able to assemble an uber stud team. If I get shut out on the initial draft, I would not panick or feel the teams who were able to pick at the top of the draft and who had gotten the top RBs held an advantage over my ability to compete. I'd judge what was available to me and if I felt I needed to think longer term then I'd switch my strategy to longer term. Landing an uber stud RB from an initial draft if no guarantee of automatic success, I've seen that blow up in people's faces many a'time.
Tweaking of standard rules is fine but major changes cause havoc. If all participants know how to properly evaluate players then it negates the biggest advantage a shark has going into a league which is knowing how to use rules meant to balance out the playing field as a fulcrum to gain an advantage. Their is always luck so how teams get slotted to select in the initial draft could be an advantage but if all players knew how to value players properly then less poor choices would take place and no shark advantage would happen from the get-go.
And I didn't agree there. If the problem is players not knowing how to value players, then teach them how to value them. What you're advocating isn't making them better owners, it's letting them get by without knowing what they are doing by catering to the content they can find for free on the web.
LOL, I guess I don't base my draft decisions on what I can find on the web for free and I highly doubt any shark here does. Standard scoring is a better way to start rather than to assume the playing field is going to be skewed so a league should try to put in pre-emptive fixes where they don't need to be.
The only scoring rule tweaks that we have is:- 4pts per passing TD for QBs so that QBs are not overvalued (this has actually become standard scoring for QBs)
One of my pet peeves here... 4 pt TDs USED to be standard scoring, but statistics from sites like MFL have shown that 6 pt passing TDs have become the standard by a good margin. In fact there's been some pretty big threads here about it urging FBG's to go to 6 pt TDs in their standard scoring as a result.
I guess that shows the age of my dynasty league because it was the standard when we began six years ago.
 
I don't think you understood my point when you're taking my talking about uber-stud RBs and then referring to have a team of uber stud QB, RB, WR, TE, LB... because there aren't uber-stud players at other positions in the context that's being discussed.

Getting parity in the positions is about fixing the already-existing problem in the standard setup, not pre-emptively fixing something. Almost every year RBs are far and away the most valuable positions. Especially the top 1-3 RBs. This is the case with only rare exceptions such as the QBs of 2004, and Jerry Rice his big season.

In most years, the top RB brings as much value to your team by himself as having both the top QB and top WR would combined. That's a huge gap in value between the positions.

The motivation for achieving parity is that imbalance in the standard setup that leads to there being a handful of RBs who are so valuable that teams who don't have them are very unlikely to be able to make it up at other positions since other players are so much less valuable. The imbalance is caused by a combination of starting more RBs than QB/TE, and by RB scoring dropping off a lot faster than WR.

You raised the point that leaving scoring as it is helps the owners who don't know how to figure out value. I made the point that yes it does, but at the cost of those teams who don't get an early pick to take the top RBs having a very difficult time competing. I'd still say if that is the concern then it's better to teach the owners how to determine value in any scoring system than it is to cater to those who don't know how.

 
I'd like to thank everyone so far for the truly excellent discussion. I had suspected that scarcity would indeed play a large role in why certain positions are overvalued. As Jene noted, it's scary to think about Antonio Gates in a 2PPR league... Increasing the scoring for TEs might make the #1TE fall in line with the #1RB, but I'd imagine the difference between #15 RB and #15 TE would be different. I'd like to clarify that I don't necessarily expect to find a way to make RBs suddenly not important. They always will be.

Limiting the lineups sounds like a solid option, but I was curious about something someone said regarding formations. To what extent would formations increase competitiveness as opposed to a hard RB1 cap? A hard RB cap might certainly help balance in a league where a team had say, SJax and LT2. A formations based league... not so much. However, I'd imagine by adding PPR for WR, and allowing formations, it would at least allow teams with 1 good RB, but 4 good WRs or 3 good WRs and 1 good TE a chance to compete. I'd like to make it clear that I do understand RBs and LBs will remain the most valuable positions, just because the difference between #1DL and #30DL is so much more drastic than the difference between #1LB and #30LB. It's not designed to cripple teams that manage to get a fearsome RB duo... but more so to give teams that DON'T have the traditional 2RB setup a chance to be competitive, instead of being assured of absolute defeat every time.

Any thoughts from people who play in formations leagues? How do you like them compared to normal leagues?

 
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I don't think you understood my point when you're taking my talking about uber-stud RBs and then referring to have a team of uber stud QB, RB, WR, TE, LB... because there aren't uber-stud players at other positions in the context that's being discussed.Getting parity in the positions is about fixing the already-existing problem in the standard setup, not pre-emptively fixing something. Almost every year RBs are far and away the most valuable positions. Especially the top 1-3 RBs. This is the case with only rare exceptions such as the QBs of 2004, and Jerry Rice his big season. In most years, the top RB brings as much value to your team by himself as having both the top QB and top WR would combined. That's a huge gap in value between the positions.The motivation for achieving parity is that imbalance in the standard setup that leads to there being a handful of RBs who are so valuable that teams who don't have them are very unlikely to be able to make it up at other positions since other players are so much less valuable. The imbalance is caused by a combination of starting more RBs than QB/TE, and by RB scoring dropping off a lot faster than WR.You raised the point that leaving scoring as it is helps the owners who don't know how to figure out value. I made the point that yes it does, but at the cost of those teams who don't get an early pick to take the top RBs having a very difficult time competing. I'd still say if that is the concern then it's better to teach the owners how to determine value in any scoring system than it is to cater to those who don't know how.
If rosters are juggled and/or PPR put in to negate the impact of the top RBs then the efforts still won't negate an LdT 2006 season or a Marshall Faulk/Priest Holmes type of year. I don't think their is a way to fudge rosters or build up WRs to the extent to negate the top RBs so I don't think it would make a dent and I've never seen the top picking player in a draft dominate due to landing a top RB. Everyone seems to realize its the luck of the draw. If you own a top stud RB you are doing well but I have seen top picked RBs go down and the absence of that assumed production leaving a big hole on the roster of the owners who leaned too heavily on a top stud RB. A team who has to scramble with two or three lessor options many times is in better position over the course of the year if they make the correct start/bench calls. But my primary point is the effect of changing lineups/scoring would have on strategy. Standard scoring everyone knows the value of top picks/RBs and then have to strategize when to cross the line to go for the top WRs/QBs and Gates creates the top TE competative advantage. I like to see how other owners base their strategy so I can size up the competition. When I would do redrafts I could tell who the players were by the end of the draft. The only times guppies came close to winning is when rules rosters/scoring was tweaked as it opened up too many variables that made drafting strategy unclear and people were left guessing.
 
One additional suggestion, in addition to the other ones in this thread, is to increase the Team Defense scoring too. In my "balanced league" we deduct 0.5 points per point allowed by a defense. You can establish an arbitrary value of, say, 15 for a shut out. If a team allows 10 points, you subtract 5 from that and give them 10 points plus whatever they get from INTs, TDs, etc. This makes defenses more valuable and more predictable since Points Allowed is a little more predictable than things like INTs.
I prefer this for defenses:1 point per forced punt

2 points for a turnover

2 points for a stop on 4th down

0 for sacks

6 for a TD

Defending Reality

 
For a radical thought - just go with "start 10 players" and let the chips fall where they may.

No roster requirements at all.

This is also known as the "All-Madden Team" approach, where you can have 3 QBs if you like or 5 RBs....

 

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