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Is there any way to stop terrorism? (2 Viewers)

Captain Cranks

Footballguy
I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic about humanity's ability to eradicate terrorism.  No matter how much security a nation has, there will always be a way to harm its people.  No matter how far you infiltrate the disease, the mindset that leads to these types of attacks will only spread to others.  Is there any way to stop this, or is this how the world will be going forward?

 
No there isn't. All you can do is make it hard for them to do stuff.

We should be grateful that the worst we have seen is 9/11. It can get so much worse.

 
Is there a way to stop drug use? Poverty? Crime? We can't eliminate these problems but there are ways to make things better. 

In the case of terrorism we need better information. We need more allies among those closest to the extremists. And we need to avoid reacting in ways that make things worse not better. 

 
I'm assuming this is sarcastic, but unfortunately, a lot of people will believe it to be true.  "Bomb the #### out of 'em," as though that won't just stoke the fire.  
"I'll give you citizenship, free healthcare and education on the backs of the populous if you say you're sorry and it sort of seems like you mean it. Really, I just need you guys to be quiet until early November, because you're really killing my 'The banks are public enemy #1' vibe." - Bernie?

 
Of course we can.  If we just let government read all our e-mails, listen to our phone calls, and monitor our browsing history, terrorism will go away quietly.

 
Was talking to the wife about this after hearing about Brussels.  I guess if the rest of the world all contributed troops and we had like 1M men on the ground in the terrorist home countries, that would probably go a long way toward getting rid of the current leadership and put a huge dent in their network.  However, won't that also make a lot of the locals hate the rest of the world even more and just create future terrorist?

I think the only possible lasting solution is that the non-extremist Muslims who live near and with extremist have to stop accepting them.  Their religion has a horrible name associated with violence throughout the world and the "good" Muslims need to take back their religion.  I have no idea if this is even possible though.

 
To defeat an idea you have to.present a better idea. To defeat hopelessness you have to provide hope. Terrorism is a complicated issue. There will.always be people that want to kill. But there are a lot of things we could do to seriously erode their ability to recruit and gain support in their communities. It would take money and time. And wouldn't provide the childish fun of blowing something up. But then how effective has that been really?

 
I think the only possible lasting solution is that the non-extremist Muslims who live near and with extremist have to stop accepting them.  Their religion has a horrible name associated with violence throughout the world and the "good" Muslims need to take back their religion.  I have no idea if this is even possible though.
These are the conclusions I come to...nothing seems feasible.  

 
never. there will always be a group of people on the bottom and among them some will take up arms to fight for their beliefs.

 
Was talking to the wife about this after hearing about Brussels.  I guess if the rest of the world all contributed troops and we had like 1M men on the ground in the terrorist home countries, that would probably go a long way toward getting rid of the current leadership and put a huge dent in their network.  However, won't that also make a lot of the locals hate the rest of the world even more and just create future terrorist?

I think the only possible lasting solution is that the non-extremist Muslims who live near and with extremist have to stop accepting them.  Their religion has a horrible name associated with violence throughout the world and the "good" Muslims need to take back their religion.  I have no idea if this is even possible though.
I'm guessing you've never heard of Timothy McVeigh.  He blew up a federal building in 1995 because he was pissed at how the government handled the siege at Waco.  It was the most deadly act of terrorism up to that point in the U.S., and is the most significant act of domestic terrorism in the U.S. to date.

And it had nothing to do with the Middle East or Muslims.  An ex-American soldier pissed about something that the government did in Texas and decided to kill government workers for it.

 
I wish there was at least a nano-second right before they die where the suicide bombers learn, "it was all a ####### farce and you just killed yourself for no good reason."  

 
I'm guessing you've never heard of Timothy McVeigh.  He blew up a federal building in 1995 because he was pissed at how the government handled the siege at Waco.  It was the most deadly act of terrorism up to that point in the U.S., and is the most significant act of domestic terrorism in the U.S. to date.

And it had nothing to do with the Middle East or Muslims.  An ex-American soldier pissed about something that the government did in Texas and decided to kill government workers for it.
one big difference tho. McVeigh was not a movement by thousands of fanatics. Can we stop idiots from doing damage or killing? Probably not. Can we stop a sub division of a large group of people from doing the same? Only if the majority of those people stop it themselves. All we can do is react. This is not an social or economic movement. This is a warped view of a religion that professes itself to be a religion of peace. Unfortunately, besides them saying it, there is little evidence to prove it. 

 
one big difference tho. McVeigh was not a movement by thousands of fanatics. Can we stop idiots from doing damage or killing? Probably not. Can we stop a sub division of a large group of people from doing the same? Only if the majority of those people stop it themselves. All we can do is react. This is not an social or economic movement. This is a warped view of a religion that professes itself to be a religion of peace. Unfortunately, besides them saying it, there is little evidence to prove it. 
But the question is "is there any way to stop terrorism".  My point was that acts of terrorism are not limited to Muslim extremists.  Acts of terrorism have been around for a long time, and are not confined to any subset of the populace that can be targeted.

Just like you'll never be able to eliminate theft or murder or any other crime, you'll never be able to eliminate terrorism.  That is unless you eliminate all potential victims of those crimes.  But when you're the last human in existence, would you consider that a victory over crime?

 
I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic about humanity's ability to eradicate terrorism.  No matter how much security a nation has, there will always be a way to harm its people.  No matter how far you infiltrate the disease, the mindset that leads to these types of attacks will only spread to others.  Is there any way to stop this, or is this how the world will be going forward?
Probably no way to stop it. I am in the minority but the best solution means to "make it hurt". That means not giving these people the freedom to come and go as they wish around the globe. It's the old "reap what you sow" philosophy....

 
Probably no way to stop it. I am in the minority but the best solution means to "make it hurt". That means not giving these people the freedom to come and go as they wish around the globe. It's the old "reap what you sow" philosophy....
Can you explain, in detail, what you mean?  How do you isolate "these people"?  

 
The simple answer is no.   There is not a police department or government agency that can stop a single or a handful of disgruntled individuals from carrying out attacks.  Any one of us here can walk into a restaurant, mall or school on a given day and take out many people. That being said you have to have nothing to live for and be willing to die yourself.....which no sane person here is willing to do. 

It amazes me that some of the people who carry out these attacks are actually educated...not some dumb asses.  It would seem the more educated you are the less religion would control your mind and actions.  Going forward I think the best we can hope for is that  these attacks stay somewhat small.

 
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There's always going to be a fringe group of human society that wants to push their agenda thru terrorizing people in traditionally unconventional ways.  The best to do limit that is to help elevate the people that the terrorists hide amongst and gain support from; either from intimidation or by presenting a more valid message.  

To that, we've done a horrible job with Muslims in the ME in regards to this.  I firmly believe that an overwhelming majority of Muslims in the ME want to embrace the basic tennants of the American/Western Civilization societal freedom.  But I don't blame them for not rising up and casting away the degenerates that permeate their society.  

 
Is there a way to stop drug use? Poverty? Crime? We can't eliminate these problems but there are ways to make things better. 

In the case of terrorism we need better information. We need more allies among those closest to the extremists. And we need to avoid reacting in ways that make things worse not better. 
How can we achieve this when it's easier for politicians to divide us than unite.

 
I firmly believe that an overwhelming majority of Muslims in the ME want to embrace the basic tennants of the American/Western Civilization societal freedom.  
This is comforting thing to believe, but I don't see a shred of evidence to support it.  On the contrary, practically all ME governments are authoritarian.  A few -- like Saudi Arabia -- are like something straight out the 11th century.  When people in that region get ticked off and overthrow one autocratic government, they usually just replace it with something even more oppressive.  Heck, the US invested its own blood and treasure to overthrow the Baath government and give Iraqis the chance to have a government more like ours.  What did they do?  They dropped everything and started slaughtering their neighbors.  I'm very firmly convinced that the middle east isn't just a desert version of Vermont that only needs a little sprinkling of democracy for freedom to bloom.  People who assume that most people in the middle east secretly share western values are just being naive and/or ethnocentric.        

Edit: This is one topic where I've changed my mind over the years.  During the run-up to the Iraq war, I figured that if the US could turn Japan into a modern, liberal society, it could do the same with a country like Iraq.  I was obviously wrong about that -- I didn't appreciate the degree to which their cultural preferences differ from my own.

 
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No, so it comes down to prevention. We need to make 10 less tanks and fighter jets per year (really a lot more but let's start small) and divert those costs into counter intelligence. Our greatest threat is not what our military is geared for. In short the military needs to be completely overhauled but with special interests and potential political backlash add that to the list of things we don't have the will to do in this country.

we have idiots like Ted Cruz saying he will defeat Isis by building more battleships...

 
This is comforting thing to believe, but I don't see a shred of evidence to support it.  On the contrary, practically all ME governments are authoritarian.  A few -- like Saudi Arabia -- are like something straight out the 11th century.  When people in that region get ticked off and overthrow one autocratic government, they usually just replace it with something even more oppressive.  Heck, the US invested its own blood and treasure to overthrow the Baath government and give Iraqis the chance to have a government more like ours.  What did they do?  They dropped everything and started slaughtering their neighbors.  I'm very firmly convinced that the middle east isn't just a desert version of Vermont that only needs a little sprinkling of democracy for freedom to bloom.  People who assume that most people in the middle east secretly share western values are just being naive and/or ethnocentric.        
I akin it along the lines of a family living in/amongst drug dealers in inner cities or even ( maybe a more appropriate analogy) innocent people who looked the other way during heavy IRA and anti-IRA activity in Ireland.  If one has a choice between siding with an outside entitiy that, depending on their whim, might or might not be there next week, or ignoring the horrific behavior of the person living next door to you....because you KNOW they'll be there next week....I imagine most people will side with the latter...particularly, in this case, when there is significant apprehension in regards to the outside entitiy (be it thru propganda or generational experiences). 

Hasn't history shown us, time and time again....that a rabid, violent minority can easily subdue and pervert "normal" people to their own means? 

 
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I akin it along the lines of a family living in/amongst drug dealers in inner cities or even ( maybe a more appropriate analogy) innocent people who looked the other way during heavy IRA and anti-IRA activity in Ireland.  If one has a choice between siding with an outside entitiy that, depending on their whim, might or might not be there next week, or ignoring the horrific behavior of the person living next door to you....because you KNOW they'll be there next week....I imagine most people will side with the latter...particularly, in this case, when there is significant apprehension in regards to the outside entitiy (be it thru propganda or generational experiences). 

Hasn't history shown us, time and time again....that a rabid, violent minority can easily subdue and pervert "normal" people to their own means? 
That's one hypothesis.  But if there was really a clear majority of folks who didn't want their governments to be like this, you'd expect that they would have gotten their way in at least one country, someplace, at some point in time.  That never happens.

Also, it's hard to for this theory to account for why this behavior continues when people immigrate out of the ME into countries where their rights are protected (like France and Belgium).  If your hypothesis were correct, once they move into a free society, the pro-western folks should have no problem flourishing and the bring-back-the-caliphate people should wither away.  That's pretty much the opposite of what we actually observe.

 
No.

And that's the point of terrorism to begin with. There is no army to fight. No country to bomb.

 
No.

And that's the point of terrorism to begin with. There is no army to fight. No country to bomb.
I disagree with this. If you cut the head off the snake, it will die.

Just like this country, any organization gets immediately weakened when you remove its leader. You've got to bomb the hell out of ISIS and take control of their oil.

No leadership and no revenue will result in a very weakened ISIS right off the bat.

 
This is comforting thing to believe, but I don't see a shred of evidence to support it.  On the contrary, practically all ME governments are authoritarian.  A few -- like Saudi Arabia -- are like something straight out the 11th century.  When people in that region get ticked off and overthrow one autocratic government, they usually just replace it with something even more oppressive.  Heck, the US invested its own blood and treasure to overthrow the Baath government and give Iraqis the chance to have a government more like ours.  What did they do?  They dropped everything and started slaughtering their neighbors.  I'm very firmly convinced that the middle east isn't just a desert version of Vermont that only needs a little sprinkling of democracy for freedom to bloom.  People who assume that most people in the middle east secretly share western values are just being naive and/or ethnocentric.        

Edit: This is one topic where I've changed my mind over the years.  During the run-up to the Iraq war, I figured that if the US could turn Japan into a modern, liberal society, it could do the same with a country like Iraq.  I was obviously wrong about that -- I didn't appreciate the degree to which their cultural preferences differ from my own.
This is a great point. 

However, being in favor of an authoritarian government, as most middle easterners seem to be, is not the same as being in favor of terrorism. In fact it's the opposite. Terrorism represents the antithesis of the sort of ordered society that most people who prefer dictatorships want. 

So let's redefine our goals here. Most of the Muslim population of the world, outside of this country, don't want our freedoms, democracy, and way of life. Fine. But most of them don't want chaos either, as evidenced by the fact that almost all of them hate ISIS. Let's use that to our advantage. 

 
I disagree with this. If you cut the head off the snake, it will die.

Just like this country, any organization gets immediately weakened when you remove its leader. You've got to bomb the hell out of ISIS and take control of their oil.

No leadership and no revenue will result in a very weakened ISIS right off the bat.
Are you under the impression ISIS is the only terrorist organization on earth?

 

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