Isaiah Crowell (6 Viewers)

[Pwingles]

I'm not saying everyone should consider him in the top 25, but rather just how I draft it's unlikely I'd pass on him late round 2. In the latest FBG mock draft he went 3.09 (33 overall), which is about right. However, guys drafted above him starting at 3.08:

Tyreek Hill - I would likely take Hill over Crowell
Jordan Reed - I am surprised at how many TEs are going round 2 - early 3. If this is the trend then maybe I would take a TE round 2... I was hoping not to and to grab one round 3.
Demaryius Thomas - I had him last year and I just couldn't stand it, so personally I will stay away
Allen Robinson - upside is there but there is risk. I'd likely take him above Crow
Fournette - This is 50/50 for me Crowell vs Fournette... I'll conclude this as a toss up and I'll take whoever DD tells me to  
Miller - I'd take Crowell over Miller
Baldwin - I'd take him over Crow
Cooks -I'd take him over Crow
Kelce - I'd like to target him, round 2 seems high based on how high TEs go in my league, but if it meant round 2 so be it. I need to watch TE value early in my draft to see when I need to take one. I definitely don't want to be outside of the top 4. 
A Rodgers - I would take him if he fell to me in round 3, but not round 2. Just how I draft QBs. He's worth a 2nd round pick for someone, but not how I draft. 
Cooper - Absolutely above Crowell
Gronk - He's not on my draft list... I just have a lot of reservations given his injuries from a medical stand point. 


So on that draft I'm thinking I'd have Crowell rated maybe 5 players higher, 28 overall... which is still round 3 I suppose
 

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that really. I am a Crow believer, own him everywhere i can. But I didnt have to spend anything to own him, so I am lucky to have gotten in on the ground floor i suppose.

I feel like this is the time of year where hype driven ADPs smash any "value" that mightve been, since now people are drafting a fairly unproven player in a seemingly positive situation who is trending upwards, at their likely ceiling without actually ever seeing them achieve that yet.

I feel like he will do well, and likely have a career season. Just not sure I take him over some other more proven assets in that range. By this time next year though, he very well could be creeping into the 12-16 overall range and it wouldnt surprise me a bit

 

[Faust]

One of 2017's best breakout candidates comes from a surprising team: the Browns

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

I'm not saying everyone should consider him in the top 25, but rather just how I draft it's unlikely I'd pass on him late round 2. In the latest FBG mock draft he went 3.09 (33 overall), which is about right. However, guys drafted above him starting at 3.08:

Tyreek Hill - I would likely take Hill over Crowell
Jordan Reed - I am surprised at how many TEs are going round 2 - early 3. If this is the trend then maybe I would take a TE round 2... I was hoping not to and to grab one round 3.
Demaryius Thomas - I had him last year and I just couldn't stand it, so personally I will stay away
Allen Robinson - upside is there but there is risk. I'd likely take him above Crow
Fournette - This is 50/50 for me Crowell vs Fournette... I'll conclude this as a toss up and I'll take whoever DD tells me to  
Miller - I'd take Crowell over Miller
Baldwin - I'd take him over Crow
Cooks -I'd take him over Crow
Kelce - I'd like to target him, round 2 seems high based on how high TEs go in my league, but if it meant round 2 so be it. I need to watch TE value early in my draft to see when I need to take one. I definitely don't want to be outside of the top 4. 
A Rodgers - I would take him if he fell to me in round 3, but not round 2. Just how I draft QBs. He's worth a 2nd round pick for someone, but not how I draft. 
Cooper - Absolutely above Crowell
Gronk - He's not on my draft list... I just have a lot of reservations given his injuries from a medical stand point. 


So on that draft I'm thinking I'd have Crowell rated maybe 5 players higher, 28 overall... which is still round 3 I suppose
 

Interesting take, thanks for spelling that out. Totally agree that the hype on Crowell means his ADP -- at this trajectory -- is likely not going to make it worthwhile to reach. But I am not sure I agree with some on the list of Sophie's choices you have taking x player vs. Crowell.

As to the TEs, I think if people are selecting them in the second round, you wait and zig where others are zagging. Getting a guy like Rudolph, Eifert, or Walker (or high upside guys like Bennett and Ebron later) is absolutely worth stocking up at RB and WR positions as the drop off between these guys and TEs outside the top 3 isn't huge. I'd almost rather reach at QB this year than TE if there are runs on those positions to get a Top 6 guy (although QB is another position I like to wait on).

# of starters and whether it's a PPR matters or not, but assuming standard scoring and starting positions, I'd take the production you get from Crowell over guys like Robinson, Baldwin and Cooks any day, all day, and grab comparables with upside like Watkins, Crabtree,  Sanders, Tate, and Keenan Allen in the next round.

 

[Interseptopus]

Interesting take, thanks for spelling that out. Totally agree that the hype on Crowell means his ADP -- at this trajectory -- is likely not going to make it worthwhile to reach. But I am not sure I agree with some on the list of Sophie's choices you have taking x player vs. Crowell.

As to the TEs, I think if people are selecting them in the second round, you wait and zig where others are zagging. Getting a guy like Rudolph, Eifert, or Walker (or high upside guys like Bennett and Ebron later) is absolutely worth stocking up at RB and WR positions as the drop off between these guys and TEs outside the top 3 isn't huge. I'd almost rather reach at QB this year than TE if there are runs on those positions to get a Top 6 guy (although QB is another position I like to wait on).

# of starters and whether it's a PPR matters or not, but assuming standard scoring and starting positions, I'd take the production you get from Crowell over guys like Robinson, Baldwin and Cooks any day, all day, and grab comparables with upside like Watkins, Crabtree,  Sanders, Tate, and Keenan Allen in the next round.

Yes, this is something I haven't really looked into much. I'm still in the mode of the last few years where if you didn't grab Gronk, Kelce, Olsen you were kind of SOL at TE... but lately that second tier is not really that far behind the first tier (if you lump Gronk in with that top tier... IMO he'd be in a tier by himself). But this is solid advice. I very well may go that route this year. I'm always on the look out for value. Same as QB... I like to wait and I think if you wait outside of the top 3, or even top 6, you can still get a guy like Carr or Mariota who will perform just as good as someone around the QB 5-6 range, or at least it won't be as large of a drop. 

Your last statement is 100% correct. Some of those WRs I don't know, I guess I'd take a long look at Allen and Crabtree- like both of them- but the others... some of it is personal (just can't ever own Tate)

 

 

[shadyridr]

This guy is going in the 3rd round? Last I checked he still plays for the Browns and literally nothing has changed about their situation. Id rather take a QB or TE then him in the 3rd round. At least you get an impact player at a different position than a guy who you wouldnt ever feel comfortable starting.

 

[shadyridr]

Yes, this is something I haven't really looked into much. I'm still in the mode of the last few years where if you didn't grab Gronk, Kelce, Olsen you were kind of SOL at TE... but lately that second tier is not really that far behind the first tier (if you lump Gronk in with that top tier... IMO he'd be in a tier by himself). But this is solid advice. I very well may go that route this year. I'm always on the look out for value. Same as QB... I like to wait and I think if you wait outside of the top 3, or even top 6, you can still get a guy like Carr or Mariota who will perform just as good as someone around the QB 5-6 range, or at least it won't be as large of a drop. 

Your last statement is 100% correct. Some of those WRs I don't know, I guess I'd take a long look at Allen and Crabtree- like both of them- but the others... some of it is personal (just can't ever own Tate)

 

Its a day after your draft. You passed on Gronk in the 2nd for Crowell. You decide to offer Crowell for Gronk straight up after rethinking things. The Gronk owner would literally laugh at you for such a horrible offer. Lets be serious here.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This guy is going in the 3rd round? Last I checked he still plays for the Browns and literally nothing has changed about their situation. Id rather take a QB or TE then him in the 3rd round. At least you get an impact player at a different position than a guy who you wouldnt ever feel comfortable starting.

I agree with passing on him easily in the late second or third round, but the bolded is really not true at all. The Browns' o-line should be markedly improved and their defense should be better as well. I still don't think Crowell's ceiling is high enough to grab him that early, but the reason he is moving up draft boards is because things should change for the better in Cleveland.

 

[shadyridr]

I agree with passing on him easily in the late second or third round, but the bolded is really not true at all. The Browns' o-line should be markedly improved and their defense should be better as well. I still don't think Crowell's ceiling is high enough to grab him that early, but the reason he is moving up draft boards is because things should change for the better in Cleveland.

They signed some oline. Doesnt mean its markedly improved. They drafted a stud DL. I doubt one player will make that much of a big impact. In the meantime, their QB situation is still horrible, Duke Johnson is still there, and they replaced Terrelle Pryor with Kenny Britt.

I love Crowell's talent but not much has changed IMO. He will still be a guy you'd love to have as an RB3 but is going way too early for that. Easy pass.

 

[Ojaays]

They signed some oline. Doesnt mean its markedly improved. They drafted a stud DL. I doubt one player will make that much of a big impact. In the meantime, their QB situation is still horrible, Duke Johnson is still there, and they replaced Terrelle Pryor with Kenny Britt.

I love Crowell's talent but not much has changed IMO. He will still be a guy you'd love to have as an RB3 but is going way too early for that. Easy pass.

They signed the #1 O lineman available, a Pro Bowl G, and also signed a Pro Bowl center, Joel Bitonio a Pro Bol guard who was hurt most of last year is back, and Joe Thomas, best LT on the planet, is still there. That is 4 Pro Bowl players on the O-Line. Last year, there was one. I call that a marked improvement.

They drafted Garrett at 1.1, then Peppers at 1.25, a 3rd round DL and a 4th round CB, then they got Caleb Brantley, a 2nd/3rd round talent in the 6th because of a late breaking incident that proved to be nothing.  Last but certainly not least, they have Greg Williams running the Defense this year, he has made a difference everywhere he's been. I am expecting quite an impact to the Defense on the Williams hire alone, but don't forget he has Jamie Collins from game 1 and a new contract to anchor and run his defense as well.

 

[Interseptopus]

Its a day after your draft. You passed on Gronk in the 2nd for Crowell. You decide to offer Crowell for Gronk straight up after rethinking things. The Gronk owner would literally laugh at you for such a horrible offer. Lets be serious here.

Where did I say I'd take Crowell over Gronk? I missed that on my list... I see Reed... Kelce I mentioned but I really didn't say what I'd do regarding him or Crowell... no Gronk though

Let's be clear, Gronk is on my avoid list this year, for multiple reasons. However, if he's there at the end of round 2 I'd probably do it because at that point that's great value. I expect him to go late round 1, early round 2. Probably not going to be drafted by me at 1.12 or 2.1 though. I imagine he'd go around 2.3-5 in my league. 

The only reason I mentioned Gronk was because the discussion deviated toward the depth at TE this year and how you can get great value in the second or third tier and not having to reach round 2 on a TE, which seems to be the trend so far (TEs going round 2). 

I don't believe anyone ever said Crowell over Gronk... not sure where you got that from, so yes let's be serious here. 

 

[Interseptopus]

This guy is going in the 3rd round? Last I checked he still plays for the Browns and literally nothing has changed about their situation. Id rather take a QB or TE then him in the 3rd round. At least you get an impact player at a different position than a guy who you wouldnt ever feel comfortable starting.

Browns OL is ranked second to start the season. Marked improvement over last year. 

 

[shadyridr]

Where did I say I'd take Crowell over Gronk? I missed that on my list... I see Reed... Kelce I mentioned but I really didn't say what I'd do regarding him or Crowell... no Gronk though

Let's be clear, Gronk is on my avoid list this year, for multiple reasons. However, if he's there at the end of round 2 I'd probably do it because at that point that's great value. I expect him to go late round 1, early round 2. Probably not going to be drafted by me at 1.12 or 2.1 though. I imagine he'd go around 2.3-5 in my league. 

The only reason I mentioned Gronk was because the discussion deviated toward the depth at TE this year and how you can get great value in the second or third tier and not having to reach round 2 on a TE, which seems to be the trend so far (TEs going round 2). 

I don't believe anyone ever said Crowell over Gronk... not sure where you got that from, so yes let's be serious here. 

You said hes off your draft list. So if you had a decision between Crowell and a guy off your draft list I just assumed you would take Crowell. No?

 

[Interseptopus]

You said hes off your draft list. So if you had a decision between Crowell and a guy off your draft list I just assumed you would take Crowell. No?

see below

However, if he's there at the end of round 2 I'd probably do it because at that point that's great value.

 

[shadyridr]

Browns OL is ranked second to start the season. Marked improvement over last year. 

I will believe it when I see it. The stench of the Browns is thick on everyone. I just cant see taking Crowell as anything more than an RB3 which means I wont get him and Im fine with that.

 

[shadyridr]

see below

You didnt see that earlier. I dont understand putting a guy on your do not draft list if youd still draft him in the 2nd.

 

[Hankmoody]

They signed some oline. Doesnt mean its markedly improved. They drafted a stud DL. I doubt one player will make that much of a big impact. In the meantime, their QB situation is still horrible, Duke Johnson is still there, and they replaced Terrelle Pryor with Kenny Britt.

I love Crowell's talent but not much has changed IMO. He will still be a guy you'd love to have as an RB3 but is going way too early for that. Easy pass.

You didn't say markedly improved (although I disagree with even that) you said "literally nothing has changed about their situation" and that's false.  They have added talent on defense (more than just one DL) and on the OL that can go a long way toward improving the ground game.  They drafted Kizer who may just be an upgrade, even as a rookie, over the disaster they had last year.  Kessler is a year older and more experienced so he's going to be some amount > 0 better than he was last year.  And Crowell is a year older, stronger, wiser, more experienced so he should be improved.

There are a ton of reasons why one might be bullish on Crowell.

 

[Ojaays]

I will believe it when I see it. The stench of the Browns is thick on everyone. I just cant see taking Crowell as anything more than an RB3 which means I wont get him and Im fine with that.

I have to admit, this is really working well for me as I'm able to get a guy a lot later in Crowell than I'd otherwise be able to. many just can't pull the trigger on the guy until the 4th round or later because it's the Browns. Many seem to forget how a guy ended up being the #1 Fantasy WR in yards, with 3 different QB's on a crappy Browns team.

Just because a team doesn't win, doesn't mean there isn't fantasy gold there to mine. The stars are aligning for Crowell to be one of a very few RB's to get the lions share of the work, with a top 5 O-line, a coach that is looking to run the ball a lot to take the pressure off a young QB, and a RB on his contract year.   I'm a buyer.

 

[Interseptopus]

I will believe it when I see it. The stench of the Browns is thick on everyone. I just cant see taking Crowell as anything more than an RB3 which means I wont get him and Im fine with that.

to quote from his FBG page:

"Did you know Crowell was a double-digit PPR scorer in nine of 15 weeks through Week 16 last year? And that five of those nine were over 15 points, three over 20?"

He was my RB3 last year and I expect him to be this year as a keeper. So I can admit I have a bias as I have stock in Crowell. I'm not sure where he finished overall ranked last year, but I think you'd be surprised... I think he'd be an excellent RB2

You didnt see that earlier. I dont understand putting a guy on your do not draft list if youd still draft him in the 2nd.

He isn't on my do not draft list. I don't really have a do not draft list because I think if anyone drops far enough their value outweighs their risk or my disdain for them or their outlook.
I said he's on my avoid list... which means I will try to avoid for several reasons, but if reward outweighs risk I would go for it. I'm not going to sit here and say I think Gronk is going to bust... he's proven he's a stud and he will continue to be until he's not. If I can get a stud late round 2 I'd grab him without hesitation. However, I have medical concerns about his back and for that reason he is a high risk injury player for me, which I tend to try my best to avoid. Brady was on my avoid list last year but I was starring at him round 5 with the next best QB Eli Manning and I pounced. If you care to discuss more about Gronk we can do so in PM or we can do so in the gronk thread. 

 

[leftcoastguy7]

This guy is going in the 3rd round? Last I checked he still plays for the Browns and literally nothing has changed about their situation. Id rather take a QB or TE then him in the 3rd round. At least you get an impact player at a different position than a guy who you wouldnt ever feel comfortable starting.

Crowell finished as RB12 last year in my PPR league. FBGs currently show his ADP as RB13, going at pick 33, late 3rd round.

Even if nothing would have changed about the Browns situation, this would be an appropriate draft spot. 

 

[TripItUp]

I've gone back and forth on Crowell this offseason and believe he's priced about right.  

On one hand his upside seems limited because of the Browns' offensive upside. On the other hand, he does seem to be trending towards a workhorse role.  I don't like the fact that he doesn't seem to have a viable handcuff.

Seems priced about right at #30 in non PPR.

roster construction will probably largely dictate whether he makes it onto my squads.  If I already have locked down 1 or 2 solid RBs by the 4th round, I'll likely be picking off difference makers at the other positions.

 

[Interseptopus]

Crowell finished as RB12 last year in my PPR league. FBGs currently show his ADP as RB13, going at pick 33, late 3rd round.

Even if nothing would have changed about the Browns situation, this would be an appropriate draft spot. 

Right. I would agree with this completely. I was merely stating that personally I would consider reaching for him if I picked late round 2/early round 3. However, it's a very good point that if I held this draft position (2.10-12) I would also hold 3.01-3... so I'd probably count on Crowell being there 3.01-3. 

I'm not advocating everyone drafts the way I do. Nor am I saying that I think he's under valued/being under drafted. Earlier in this thread I made a comment that RB13/mid to late round 3 is perfect for him. I'm just giving my 0.02 and letting people do with it whatever they like. Multiple opinions are always good to help people make their own rankings. I think he has lower top 10-12 potential, and even more if that offense can be decent. 

 

[FF Ninja]

Crowell finished as RB12 last year in my PPR league. FBGs currently show his ADP as RB13, going at pick 33, late 3rd round.

Even if nothing would have changed about the Browns situation, this would be an appropriate draft spot. 

I'm pro-Crowell, but I feel obligated to point out that it's never quite fair to look at last year's finish and compare it to this year's pre-season rankings. At the end of a season, there are only a few guys left standing with 16 games played, so anyone durable/fortunate enough to be in that category is automatically elevated. But at this time of the year, we have to assume everybody plays 16 games. Using FBG scoring, Crowell only beat out Hyde, Ware, L.Miller, and Coleman by a few points and they all missed 2-3 games each. So if all things remained equal, I could understand people bumping him down a few spots in their rankings from his 2016 finish.

That being said, I obviously think his increased usage in the passing game and the vastly improved OL will vault him up quite a bit. Plus, he deserves some credit for being durable.

 

[Tau837]

They signed the #1 O lineman available, a Pro Bowl G, and also signed a Pro Bowl center, Joel Bitonio a Pro Bol guard who was hurt most of last year is back, and Joe Thomas, best LT on the planet, is still there. That is 4 Pro Bowl players on the O-Line. Last year, there was one. I call that a marked improvement.

They drafted Garrett at 1.1, then Peppers at 1.25, a 3rd round DL and a 4th round CB, then they got Caleb Brantley, a 2nd/3rd round talent in the 6th because of a late breaking incident that proved to be nothing.  Last but certainly not least, they have Greg Williams running the Defense this year, he has made a difference everywhere he's been. I am expecting quite an impact to the Defense on the Williams hire alone, but don't forget he has Jamie Collins from game 1 and a new contract to anchor and run his defense as well.

 

Also, Hue Jackson in his second year is a plus IMO. I'm not sure Crowell is a huge value at his ADP, but I suspect there is more fantasy value in the CLE offense, particularly the running game, than a lot of people realize, and Crowell seems to be the most likely candidate to capitalize on it. 

 

[ZWK]

Crowell finished as RB12 last year in my PPR league. FBGs currently show his ADP as RB13, going at pick 33, late 3rd round.

Even if nothing would have changed about the Browns situation, this would be an appropriate draft spot. 

I'm pro-Crowell, but I feel obligated to point out that it's never quite fair to look at last year's finish and compare it to this year's pre-season rankings. At the end of a season, there are only a few guys left standing with 16 games played, so anyone durable/fortunate enough to be in that category is automatically elevated. But at this time of the year, we have to assume everybody plays 16 games. Using FBG scoring, Crowell only beat out Hyde, Ware, L.Miller, and Coleman by a few points and they all missed 2-3 games each. So if all things remained equal, I could understand people bumping him down a few spots in their rankings from his 2016 finish.

That being said, I obviously think his increased usage in the passing game and the vastly improved OL will vault him up quite a bit. Plus, he deserves some credit for being durable.

Last year Crowell was RB20 in ppg (min 8 games), and RB19 in VBD (giving players credit for baseline-level production in games that they missed). I would not draft him in the 3rd round unless I expected an improvement.

 

[FF Ninja]

Last year Crowell was RB20 in ppg (min 8 games), and RB19 in VBD (giving players credit for baseline-level production in games that they missed). I would not draft him in the 3rd round unless I expected an improvement.

1. What site do you use for PPG? I always have to figure it in a relatively laborious manner.
   
2. Do you expect an improvement?
   

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Just yesterday, we heard about Duke Johnson possibly becoming their primary slot WR.  How real that projection is remains to be seen, but...

1) As many have pointed out, the Browns could be DAL AFC along the OL.

2) Crowell emerged as the Browns bellow.  Aside from Duke, they have no one.

3) Despite just 1 win and being non-competitive in a lot of their losses, Crowell logged 238 touches.

4) Not a lot of wear and tear on him, dating back to college.

5) He is the primary option the Browns have for success a) on offense and b) to control game flow.

By the time peak draft season rolls around, he'll have risen to Round 2.

 

[Interseptopus]

I'm pro-Crowell, but I feel obligated to point out that it's never quite fair to look at last year's finish and compare it to this year's pre-season rankings. At the end of a season, there are only a few guys left standing with 16 games played, so anyone durable/fortunate enough to be in that category is automatically elevated. But at this time of the year, we have to assume everybody plays 16 games. Using FBG scoring, Crowell only beat out Hyde, Ware, L.Miller, and Coleman by a few points and they all missed 2-3 games each. So if all things remained equal, I could understand people bumping him down a few spots in their rankings from his 2016 finish.

That being said, I obviously think his increased usage in the passing game and the vastly improved OL will vault him up quite a bit. Plus, he deserves some credit for being durable.

I think this is a fair point. For Crowell to finish top 15 took injuries to several high quality RBs last year. It's reasonable to say that if many of those better RBs did not get hurt, that Crowell would be bumped down a few slots. Looking at rankings alone doesn't really tell the whole story. 

Last year Crowell was RB20 in ppg (min 8 games), and RB19 in VBD (giving players credit for baseline-level production in games that they missed). I would not draft him in the 3rd round unless I expected an improvement.

So even with injuries he was a RB2... I think that's reasonable. I would expect an improvement from last year based on this:

Just yesterday, we heard about Duke Johnson possibly becoming their primary slot WR.  How real that projection is remains to be seen, but...

1) As many have pointed out, the Browns could be DAL AFC along the OL.

2) Crowell emerged as the Browns bellow.  Aside from Duke, they have no one.

3) Despite just 1 win and being non-competitive in a lot of their losses, Crowell logged 238 touches.

4) Not a lot of wear and tear on him, dating back to college.

5) He is the primary option the Browns have for success a) on offense and b) to control game flow.

By the time peak draft season rolls around, he'll have risen to Round 2.

Pretty much sums it up. 

I'm not saying Kizer is Dak, or that CLE has the talent DAL does, but we saw first hand what a great OL can do for an entire offense last season. You put Dak on Cleveland last year and I think Cleveland is still holding the 1.01 pick... or at the very least a top 3 pick IMO

They have what could be the best OL in football, a young QB who was considered the front runner for the 2017 1.01 pick after the 2015 season, and a RB who has shown he can literally carry the team on his back. 

I'd be curious to see if their defense can keep them in games. One frustrating thing was seeing Crowell sitting in favor of Duke because Cleveland would have to pass so often. I think a lot of Crowell's success depends on the defense, and they made some interesting moves there. 

He'll be someone to watch that's for sure

 

[FF Ninja]

I think this is a fair point. For Crowell to finish top 15 took injuries to several high quality RBs last year. It's reasonable to say that if many of those better RBs did not get hurt, that Crowell would be bumped down a few slots. Looking at rankings alone doesn't really tell the whole story. 

Easy there... I wouldn't say they were better RBs. Just RBs in much better situations.

 

[MattFancy]

I still don't get the push back on this guy. IMO, he's a solid bet to finish in the top 15 or so RBs. The Cleveland OL has drastically improved over last year. Hue Jackson has talked him all offseason. Sure, his rank to finish the season was due to guys getting hurt, but at the end of the day, you want guys like Crowell who are available to play every week. He's not super flashy, but he's reliable and is as close to a bell-cow as you can find at that point in the RB rankings. I'll gladly take him anywhere I can as my RB2.

 

[MattFancy]

I still don't get the push back on this guy. IMO, he's a solid bet to finish in the top 15 or so RBs. The Cleveland OL has drastically improved over last year. Hue Jackson has talked him all offseason. Sure, his rank to finish the season was due to guys getting hurt, but at the end of the day, you want guys like Crowell who are available to play every week. He's not super flashy, but he's reliable and is as close to a bell-cow as you can find at that point in the RB rankings. I'll gladly take him anywhere I can as my RB2.

 

[Pwingles]

I still don't get the push back on this guy. IMO, he's a solid bet to finish in the top 15 or so RBs. The Cleveland OL has drastically improved over last year. Hue Jackson has talked him all offseason. Sure, his rank to finish the season was due to guys getting hurt, but at the end of the day, you want guys like Crowell who are available to play every week. He's not super flashy, but he's reliable and is as close to a bell-cow as you can find at that point in the RB rankings. I'll gladly take him anywhere I can as my RB2.

I agree. I think him finishing as an upper tier rb 2 last year combined with the improvements to the OL, and the team in general are all indicators that he should be in line to at least hit a similar mark. He has a lot of things going for him right now, and in FF opportunity is just as important as talent, and he has both. Hue loves him. Improved O line. Improved defense. QB play cant get much worse, so I assume itll be better and more consistent (meaning the same guy might start several games in a row before the other guy replaces him). He is young. No real injury concerns or history. He may very well not be a top 8 rb this year, but I think if the opportunities are there, he may get there just by volume.

 

[Interseptopus]

I still don't get the push back on this guy. IMO, he's a solid bet to finish in the top 15 or so RBs. The Cleveland OL has drastically improved over last year. Hue Jackson has talked him all offseason. Sure, his rank to finish the season was due to guys getting hurt, but at the end of the day, you want guys like Crowell who are available to play every week. He's not super flashy, but he's reliable and is as close to a bell-cow as you can find at that point in the RB rankings. I'll gladly take him anywhere I can as my RB2.

While I agree, I will play devil's advocate... 

Would you rather have Crowell or:

Abdullah
Cook
Lacy
Montgomery
Fournette

Those 5 RBs would arguably go later than Crowell  and would be good RB2s with top 15-20 potential. They come with just as much risk as Crowell being on the Browns, but they don't really have anyone competing significantly for carries. They could be had much later in the draft (round 5 for Lacy, Cook). 

I think that's why people are pushing back... because Crowell seems like a "hot" pick, but there are some guys who they like just as much if not better that they can get a round or 2 later. 

I think there are two groups: people who are all about buying Crowell and people who are very skeptical for the fact that he's on the Browns. I was extremely skeptical when I traded for him last year. I never played him... landed Ajayi after his owner got impatient and released him. But I can understand the skepticism. 

 

[Pwingles]

While I agree, I will play devil's advocate... 

Would you rather have Crowell or:

Abdullah
Cook
Lacy
Montgomery
Fournette

Those 5 RBs would arguably go later than Crowell  and would be good RB2s with top 15-20 potential. They come with just as much risk as Crowell being on the Browns, but they don't really have anyone competing significantly for carries. They could be had much later in the draft (round 5 for Lacy, Cook). 

I think that's why people are pushing back... because Crowell seems like a "hot" pick, but there are some guys who they like just as much if not better that they can get a round or 2 later. 

Crow doesnt either tho, right? Duke isn't creeping in the shadows waiting to surprise everyone and get 15+ carries a game in lieu of Crow. They didnt bring anyone of note in to compete either. I like crows situation. What he does with it however, we will have to wait and see. Its all lining up for him to succeed this season.

In a startup id prolly take LF, Cook, over him mostly because their perceived value wont go down for a season or two whether they do well or not. In a trade scenario, I feel the same, they are the only two on that list I consider moving in a 1 for 1. I am super low on AA, Lacy sucks, and I dont really know what to make of TyMont going forward with regard to his role

 

[MattFancy]

While I agree, I will play devil's advocate... 

Would you rather have Crowell or:

Abdullah
Cook
Lacy
Montgomery
Fournette

Those 5 RBs would arguably go later than Crowell  and would be good RB2s with top 15-20 potential. They come with just as much risk as Crowell being on the Browns, but they don't really have anyone competing significantly for carries. They could be had much later in the draft (round 5 for Lacy, Cook). 

I think that's why people are pushing back... because Crowell seems like a "hot" pick, but there are some guys who they like just as much if not better that they can get a round or 2 later. 

I would take Crowell over Abdullah, Cook, and Lacy for sure right now. Probably over Montgomery too, would have to think more. Crowell and Fournette could go either way.

Abdullah has too many question marks. Say what you want about Crowell, but we saw him put up decent numbers last season. Abdullah can't seem to stay healthy, plus Theo Riddick and Matt Asiata are there as well.

Cook is a rookie that will have to share time with Latavius Murray and will play behind a worse OL than what Crowell has.

I like Lacy, but there's too many unknowns at this time to feel comfortable taking him over Crowell. Is Lacy the lead guy? Is it Rawls? How much will Prosise cut into his workload? And the Seattle OL hasn't looked great the last 2 seasons.

Montgomery is probably the closest on this list for me to Crowell. Want to see how Montgomery holds up to a full season as the RB. Plus there are rumblings that Jamal Williams could be more involved.

 

[stlrams]

I would take Crowell over Abdullah, Cook, and Lacy for sure right now. Probably over Montgomery too, would have to think more. Crowell and Fournette could go either way.

Abdullah has too many question marks. Say what you want about Crowell, but we saw him put up decent numbers last season. Abdullah can't seem to stay healthy, plus Theo Riddick and Matt Asiata are there as well.

Cook is a rookie that will have to share time with Latavius Murray and will play behind a worse OL than what Crowell has.

I like Lacy, but there's too many unknowns at this time to feel comfortable taking him over Crowell. Is Lacy the lead guy? Is it Rawls? How much will Prosise cut into his workload? And the Seattle OL hasn't looked great the last 2 seasons.

Montgomery is probably the closest on this list for me to Crowell. Want to see how Montgomery holds up to a full season as the RB. Plus there are rumblings that Jamal Williams could be more involved.

I agree Crowell the best option here.  All the others have more question marks then Crowell...

 

[Interseptopus]

Crow doesnt either tho, right? Duke isn't creeping in the shadows waiting to surprise everyone and get 15+ carries a game in lieu of Crow. They didnt bring anyone of note in to compete either. I like crows situation. What he does with it however, we will have to wait and see. Its all lining up for him to succeed this season.

In a startup id prolly take LF, Cook, over him mostly because their perceived value wont go down for a season or two whether they do well or not. In a trade scenario, I feel the same, they are the only two on that list I consider moving in a 1 for 1. I am super low on AA, Lacy sucks, and I dont really know what to make of TyMont going forward with regard to his role

I agree. I'm in the pro-crow crowd. I think many people look at spending a 3rd round pick on Crowell and figure, "why, when I can grab someone round 4 or 5 who is just as good." I think it's a valid point if you're not high on Crowell. I happen to like him this year so I would love to take him round 3. 

I would take Crowell over Abdullah, Cook, and Lacy for sure right now. Probably over Montgomery too, would have to think more. Crowell and Fournette could go either way.

Abdullah has too many question marks. Say what you want about Crowell, but we saw him put up decent numbers last season. Abdullah can't seem to stay healthy, plus Theo Riddick and Matt Asiata are there as well.

Cook is a rookie that will have to share time with Latavius Murray and will play behind a worse OL than what Crowell has.

I like Lacy, but there's too many unknowns at this time to feel comfortable taking him over Crowell. Is Lacy the lead guy? Is it Rawls? How much will Prosise cut into his workload? And the Seattle OL hasn't looked great the last 2 seasons.

Montgomery is probably the closest on this list for me to Crowell. Want to see how Montgomery holds up to a full season as the RB. Plus there are rumblings that Jamal Williams could be more involved.

I'd definitely take Crowell over all of those guys as well. Cook I like but Murray is a very big speed bump, especially with that contract. Abdullah is a great RB3... too risky to go all in as RB2, but you could do worse. Lacy I think could be good but has significant risk... and he has more to deal with than Crowell for competition. Montgomery is probably my lowest on this list (interesting he is closest for you). Ty gets receptions, and I expect him to continue to have that role, so in PPR he could be a dream but I really think Ty falls out of favor by the bye week and the rookies get a lot of work.

So yes, I agree... I would take Crowell over all of them. He's the exact kind of player I like to get- someone who I can count on getting me 10-12 points a game. A "set it and forget it" kind of start at RB2. But that's my drafting style... I'm more conservative and look for consistency.

There's not much to dislike about Crowell aside from, "he plays for the Browns." If he was on a team like Carolina I don't think anyone would blink twice. 

 

[Slapdash]

They signed the #1 O lineman available, a Pro Bowl G, and also signed a Pro Bowl center, Joel Bitonio a Pro Bol guard who was hurt most of last year is back, and Joe Thomas, best LT on the planet, is still there. That is 4 Pro Bowl players on the O-Line. Last year, there was one. I call that a marked improvement.

They drafted Garrett at 1.1, then Peppers at 1.25, a 3rd round DL and a 4th round CB, then they got Caleb Brantley, a 2nd/3rd round talent in the 6th because of a late breaking incident that proved to be nothing.  Last but certainly not least, they have Greg Williams running the Defense this year, he has made a difference everywhere he's been. I am expecting quite an impact to the Defense on the Williams hire alone, but don't forget he has Jamie Collins from game 1 and a new contract to anchor and run his defense as well.

I love what the Browns did this offseason. 

 

[Interseptopus]

I love what the Browns did this offseason. 

Said no one until 7/25/2017! 

They actually made good moves, for once! 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

you want guys like Crowell who are available to play every week.

Guys are available to play every week until they are not. Because Crowell stayed healthy last season means nothing in that regard for this season.

 

[MattFancy]

Guys are available to play every week until they are not. Because Crowell stayed healthy last season means nothing in that regard for this season.

True. But he's shown now that he can stay healthy over a 16 game season. Some guys have never shown they can stay healthy all 16 games.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

True. But he's shown now that he can stay healthy over a 16 game season. Some guys have never shown they can stay healthy all 16 games.

Which is pretty meaningless over a two year sample size.

 

[ZWK]

Last year Crowell was RB20 in ppg (min 8 games), and RB19 in VBD (giving players credit for baseline-level production in games that they missed). I would not draft him in the 3rd round unless I expected an improvement.

1. What site do you use for PPG? I always have to figure it in a relatively laborious manner.
   
2. Do you expect an improvement?
   

1. FF Today (although I have to notice and subtract out the <8 game people like Mack Brown, and I have to copy-paste into a spreadsheet and use formulas to calculate VBD.

2. I don't have strong opinions, I think yes at least a little.

 

[Soulfly3]

A lot of you are gonna have Pizza Lunchables on your face

 

[Interseptopus]

A lot of you are gonna have Pizza Lunchables on your face

Learned from your last Browns affair? 

Pizza lunchables are lot better than China Food... 

We will see in a few short months! Best of luck to you and your team! 

 

[TheDirtyWord]

While I agree, I will play devil's advocate... 

Would you rather have Crowell or:

Abdullah
Cook
Lacy
Montgomery
Fournette

Those 5 RBs would arguably go later than Crowell  and would be good RB2s with top 15-20 potential. They come with just as much risk as Crowell being on the Browns, but they don't really have anyone competing significantly for carries. They could be had much later in the draft (round 5 for Lacy, Cook). 

I think that's why people are pushing back... because Crowell seems like a "hot" pick, but there are some guys who they like just as much if not better that they can get a round or 2 later. 

I think there are two groups: people who are all about buying Crowell and people who are very skeptical for the fact that he's on the Browns. I was extremely skeptical when I traded for him last year. I never played him... landed Ajayi after his owner got impatient and released him. But I can understand the skepticism. 

Fournette/Cook represent HIGH ceilings, but LOW floors.  High ceilings based on their talent but low floors due to their respective situations (decent supporting RB talent) and the ghost of Melvin Gordon's rookie year.

Lacy hasn't proven he can stay in shape enough, not to mention that I'm not even sure Carroll likes him more than Rawls.

Abdullah is a wild-card for me...he looked like he had made that year 1 to year 2 leap, then had the foot injury.  I think he also sees his ADP rise.  That said, there is a lot of 'stuff' in the RB room and I could see a full blown RBBC here for multiple reasons.

Montgomery? Great offense but I don't see scenarios where GB rides him. He's solely a compliment to Rodgers to keep defense honest.

Crowell has mid 1st round potential in 2018.  Only Fournette/Cook IMO can say the same.  But Crowell's floor seems set at his 2016 numbers save for injury.

 

[Interseptopus]

Crowell has mid 1st round potential in 2018.  

But Crowell's floor seems set at his 2016 numbers save for injury.

I think this is what makes him so polarizing. Many people look at him and don't believe this at all. I happen to agree with you. Crowell is a good candidate for one of those RBs that replaces a guy like Murray on the 1st round list for 2018. Some people just don't believe that, and that's fine. I find it hard to believe that a Cleveland Brown could be a top RB, however it wasn't long ago that a highly touted RB had an amazing rookie season, landing him in the top 10, for an even worse Browns team than today. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I think this is what makes him so polarizing. Many people look at him and don't believe this at all. I happen to agree with you. Crowell is a good candidate for one of those RBs that replaces a guy like Murray on the 1st round list for 2018. Some people just don't believe that, and that's fine. I find it hard to believe that a Cleveland Brown could be a top RB, however it wasn't long ago that a highly touted RB had an amazing rookie season, landing him in the top 10, for an even worse Browns team than today. 

I don't see 1st round upside but for me it is not necessarily due to him being a Brown. I just think he's an average talent playing in what will still likely be a poor offense overall. I do admit that his improved o-line and likely heavy usage gives him a very solid floor - I just don't see the upside that's pushing him up into the late second. I'd be very happy getting him as my RB2 in Round 4, however.

 

[Interseptopus]

I don't see 1st round upside but for me it is not necessarily due to him being a Brown. I just think he's an average talent playing in what will still likely be a poor offense overall. I do admit that his improved o-line and likely heavy usage gives him a very solid floor - I just don't see the upside that's pushing him up into the late second. I'd be very happy getting him as my RB2 in Round 4, however.

I think he has potential to finish top 10 based on volume alone. But that's best case scenario. What is likely is he finishes high RB2 status (12-15)... which if that's the case there migh tbe some chatter of him even getting better in 2018, which could push him into top 10 discussion, kind of like Ajayi this year. Floor is RB18 IMO, which I'm still happy with as my RB2. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

he's an average talent

Crowell wasn't  used as much as he should have last year. 

He was productive.

-----------------------------------------------------

Pete Smith‏ @_PeteSmith_  18h18 hours ago

Pete Smith Retweeted Patrick Waickman

Crowell carried the ball 198 times in 2016. 45 of those were for 1st downs. 7 were for touchdowns.

------------------------------------------------------

- Hue has stated he messed up by not using his RBs more but a lot of that was due to game scripts where the Browns fell behind and Hue gave up on the running game too soon.

- The O-line has improved.

- Duke is being mentioned as more of a slot-WR.

- The defense is improved over last year with addition of Myles Garrett and other rookies from this draft, the development of Emanuel Ogbah and other second year defenders from last year, and much better DC than Ray Horton.  Jamie Collins entering his second season is going to be a beast with Christian Kirksey being shielded by Danny Shelton in the middle and Garrett solidifying the edge.  Bottom line is that the defense is improved which will lead to better game scripts for running game.

- Crow is in contract year.

He's young, healthy, has been underused, he is slated to be the bell-cow.

I don't think he will bust out but do see 225+ carries with increased yardage and 'decent' TD numbers.

He's probably better than you think.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

He's probably better than you think.

I'm talking about how I view his talent level - an "average talent" at RB is very capable of being productive behind a good line with heavy volume. I'm not saying he's bad I just think he lacks upside because he just isn't very dynamic.