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Isaiah Crowell (3 Viewers)

The Crow-Boes are fleeing the scene at a record pace. They were wrong, they know they were wrong, and now they are looking up at a white and brown air bomb coming straight for their fat mouths.

 
It took Crowell a while to rise up because West was drafted and Crowell wasn't. We don't care about that but coaches and GMs do, a lot.

But you know what means more? Getting them an away win they would have otherwise lost. He's on track to dominate carries going forward.

 
Yet after the fumble West continued to get touches. Even after two explosive TD runs it was still alternating time share.

Great FF game for Crowell, but he still only got 44% of the work load.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Yet after the fumble West continued to get touches. Even after two explosive TD runs it was still alternating time share.

Great FF game for Crowell, but he still only got 44% of the work load.
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they could afford to do it vs. Atl but the cream has risen to the top and Crowell is just better. He's more explosive and runs with more power. I don't know that he'll ever have an 18 to 4 touch strangehold on the offense but it will continue to lopside toward him.

 
Banger said:
BobbyLayne said:
Yet after the fumble West continued to get touches. Even after two explosive TD runs it was still alternating time share.

Great FF game for Crowell, but he still only got 44% of the work load.
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they could afford to do it vs. Atl but the cream has risen to the top and Crowell is just better. He's more explosive and runs with more power. I don't know that he'll ever have an 18 to 4 touch strangehold on the offense but it will continue to lopside toward him.
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I believe it has to start to lopside toward him before we can say it will continue.

There's no argument from anyone who has watched him that he is the most explosive Cleveland RB. That's been true all year. We used to say the same thing every year about Chris Ivory when he was stuck in the Saints purgatory. Just because a guy has a quick burst doesn't mean he's going to dominate carries.

West was effective yesterday as well. He kept getting touches throughout the game. I wish Pettine would Feed The Crow 25 times a game, but so far that hasn't been the case.

 
I was knocking the idea he'd be a top 12 RB ROS before the game and I think things could easily play out to where I was wrong. I didn't take into account his nose for the end zone.

Dominating touches is great but that just gets you to RB2 territory in fantasy without TDs (Andre Ellington, Demarco Murray recently, Alfred Blue last 2 weeks). Fantasy wise the chance for TDs is much more valuable than a guaranteed 30 more yards rushing midfield.

Even if Crowell doesn't totally take over the backfield you've gotta think he's dominating scoring opportunities ROS.

 
I'd feel way better about Crow's outlook if West wasn't getting the majority of carries. He's also not part of the receiving game so its TD or bust for Crowell, hard to be 'that' optimistic over that kind of role..

 
Sabertooth said:
Crowell reminds me of Leveon Bell.
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How so? Bell has great hands and seldom finds the end zone Despite a huge number of touches, Crowell never sees the ball in the passing game and seems to score a TD in every game he gets double digit touches.
 
jtp1982 said:
It took Crowell a while to rise up because West was drafted and Crowell wasn't. We don't care about that but coaches and GMs do, a lot.

But you know what means more? Getting them an away win they would have otherwise lost. He's on track to dominate carries going forward.
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Which is why I continue to state that a lot of them are working in a desk job or selling cars if they didn't know someone already in the NFL. Your great teams start the best players. Your hacks start Steven Jackson and their reason is because they paid big $ to him.

 
lod01 said:
jtp1982 said:
It took Crowell a while to rise up because West was drafted and Crowell wasn't. We don't care about that but coaches and GMs do, a lot.

But you know what means more? Getting them an away win they would have otherwise lost. He's on track to dominate carries going forward.
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Which is why I continue to state that a lot of them are working in a desk job or selling cars if they didn't know someone already in the NFL. Your great teams start the best players. Your hacks start Steven Jackson and their reason is because they paid big $ to him.
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I agree totally. Belichek is the first example that comes to mind. The team's bus driver might lead them in rushing yards week 16 for all we know.

Pettine is trying to create that culture in Cleveland. Here's an article from early last week to that effect http://www.news-herald.com/sports/20141118/jim-ingraham-decision-making-on-right-track-for-cleveland-browns

They've been showing that attitude at CB all year. You'd think it would carry over into RB play going forward.

 
Da Gildz said:
I'd feel way better about Crow's outlook if West wasn't getting the majority of carries. He's also not part of the receiving game so its TD or bust for Crowell, hard to be 'that' optimistic over that kind of role..
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:goodposting: West has an equal a role in the offense at the moment, and he has not looked bad. Crowell has looked better than West running the ball, but until we see Crowell's role expanded, his weekly value will be largely TD-dependent.

 
socrates said:
Da Gildz said:
I'd feel way better about Crow's outlook if West wasn't getting the majority of carries. He's also not part of the receiving game so its TD or bust for Crowell, hard to be 'that' optimistic over that kind of role..
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:goodposting: West has an equal a role in the offense at the moment, and he has not looked bad. Crowell has looked better than West running the ball, but until we see Crowell's role expanded, his weekly value will be largely TD-dependent.
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If one were to look at it from the perspective of West, they could say that, while Crowell got the TDs, West had more touches. He didn't look as good as Crowell. However, the fact that he still continued to receive touches and received the higher volume of touches, this could be good for him moving forward. Crowell is clearly more deserving of the larger workload. Evidence on Sunday doesn't indicate that is the case moving forward, however. Crowell just happened to do more with his touches in this particular game. Perhaps West dominates in the next game and the pool gets murky again. I am really hesitant to jump on Crowell until news out of Cleveland indicates he is the favored back.

 
Good points above. Im not certain that will happen anytime soon though, re: clarification on distributing of touches.

Part of me thinks its equal parts Pettine not knowing what they have yet or maybe even just not being a great evaluator of RB talent. And another part of me thinks its to their benefit to name a lead back, in the sense that it will make it harder for other opponents to gameplan.

Seems like their o line unit is a bit more cohesive at this stage than the last 2 games. that helps. Gordon back helps too.

 
gianmarco said:
Crowell is a more explosive Marion Barber, IMO.
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Yeah. Not a bad comparison. I think the Crow has more wiggle and vision with the same violent contact. Barber probably has the better hands at this point. Both the Crow and West are going to get theirs and Josh Gordon is going to help their cause with the amount of attention he requires.

 
Crowell's emergence was perfect timing for my Antonio Brown and Kelvin Benjamin bye weeks. Love this guy ... hope he gets more like 75% of the touches going forward instead of just half.

 
For everyone pointing out that Crowell didn't have any receptions yesterday, I think there are a couple things worth pointing out.

1. West only had 1 catch on 1 target yesterday, so it seems like throwing the ball to the running backs wasn't a part of the game plan yesterday.

2. On the Browns' last series, when they were passing every play, Crowell was the back on the field. To me, that means that the Browns trust Crowell to pass block, which means he won't automatically be coming off the field on passing downs like some running backs do (and like Alfred Morris did when Shanahan was in charge there).

3. To me, the 2 points above mean that West isn't automatically going to be getting the targets that go to a running back, and Crow is just as likely to see targets moving forwards as West is.

 
Sabertooth said:
Chaka said:
Sabertooth said:
Crowell reminds me of Leveon Bell.
Click to expand...
How so? Bell has great hands and seldom finds the end zone Despite a huge number of touches, Crowell never sees the ball in the passing game and seems to score a TD in every game he gets double digit touches.
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because they looks similar with the ball in their hands. :shrug:
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Was kind of kidding. I haven't seen enough of both to really say if they have similar running styles but the hands do seem like a big potential point of disparity between their games.

 
2. On the Browns' last series, when they were passing every play, Crowell was the back on the field. To me, that means that the Browns trust Crowell to pass block, which means he won't automatically be coming off the field on passing downs like some running backs do (and like Alfred Morris did when Shanahan was in charge there).
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This was one of the most important take aways from the game to me.

I was watching closely when the Browns got into "catch up mode" to see how it went down and was pleasantly surprised that they had Crowell in there during the hurry up. Since I hardly ever get to see Cleveland's games live I haven't heard much of anything beyond hyperbole about his blocking(which I can also say about West too. No idea if either is any good at it, really), but Crow's must be serviceable enough that it wasn't being used as an excuse to keep him off the field. Or at least wasn't yesterday. No idea if they've been using him in that capacity much prior to this game though.

I don't necessarily think we're going to see a giant shift, one way or the other, to one of the two backs in '14(although it's clear to me that Crowell is the better pure runner). That said, Cleveland runs the ball so much/so well that it's not a huge leap to expect that any given week both could be viable for fantasy. I think it may well just break down to a "we plan to get each guy X series, but game flow will dictate it" sort of thing. If one of them happens to be on the field when a particular drive or two is sustained that guy is going to get more reps by default that week.

What will likely tip the scales one way or the other, in any given game, is how they use the two backs in the RZ and in the hurry up. If they stick to "use the guy on the field at the time" at the stripe, then it could be more of a tossup. If they feature one more than the other in either facet, that's the guy to own. Since it appears they aren't afraid to allow Crowell to pass block, and we know they aren't afraid to put him in there at the stripe, I'd much rather put my chips on him. I don't think West is a turd, I just think The Crow is better. Not expecting him to be top 5 ROS, or anything, but I'm on board.

 
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What I saw was get the defensive tired with West early, then finish them off with heavy doses of Crowell late. Problem was by then, they were often in catch up mode, so it was less opps since this team doesn't like throwing to RBs.

 
No fumbles! Impressive Running. Keep it up. Not a lot of targets left over for RBs anymore with Gordon now back getting 16 on only 70% of snaps and Hawkins is most likely getting all the underneath love going forward with Gordon out there stretching the defense deep.

ETA: Wow West got 14 carries to Crow's 12? Have not seen the game yet but looks like an even split in snaps. Seems he's a bit TD dependent still but a good game.

 
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Have patience and watch Crow's role increase weekly. It will time out well for fantasy playoffs.

I'm growing less worried about Crowell's place in this offense. It's looking clearer and clearer that his talent is head and shoulders ahead of West. As long as Crowell doesn't fumble he will be fine. What's funny is that West is the one who's been fumbling, but he's been lucky to have them all recovered.

 
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georg013 said:
Wonder what happens once they get Jordan Cameron back. This is shaping up to be the perfect storm on offense.
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They have it all if Hoyer can cut out those head scratcher INTs. Hawkins is really dangerous underneath as Gordon clears it out. If they upgrade Miles Austin next year, look out. You got Crow/West with Gordon, Hawkins, Gabriel, insert WR upgrade & Cameron.

 
lod01 said:
georg013 said:
Wonder what happens once they get Jordan Cameron back. This is shaping up to be the perfect storm on offense.
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They have it all if Hoyer can cut out those head scratcher INTs. Hawkins is really dangerous underneath as Gordon clears it out. If they upgrade Miles Austin next year, look out. You got Crow/West with Gordon, Hawkins, Gabriel, insert WR upgrade & Cameron.
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Don't forget the return of the glue that binds: Alex Mack.

 
Browns coach Mike Pettine praised Isaiah Crowell's work ethic and practice performance during his Monday press conference.

Pettine said Crowell "works hard," has "figured out the practice part," and now "we're getting results." Crowell has played 63 percent of Cleveland's offensive snaps the past two games, averaging 5.73 YPC with a pair of touchdowns. Terrance West did get more touches (15) than Crowell (12) in Sunday's win over Atlanta, but is averaging 3.89 yards per carry over the past two weeks.
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NREC34 said:
just_want_2_win said:
So going beyond this year, where does Crow get drafted next year? First round? Second? (Assuming everything remains pretty much the same in CLE.)
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Second. In leagues where he falls lower than that people will be kicking themselves similar to Leveon Bell this year.
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High 2nd? Low 2nd?

I think you're right about the slowness to get on the bandwagon since he's not a household name (yet) and plays for CLE.

 
Although I've held Crow on my roster for the last 2 months, yesterday was the first day I started him. It felt so relaxing to blow my Crow load on the rest of the league. I'm hoping he and Mike Evans are the waiver wire gems that take me all the way this year.

 
just_want_2_win said:
So going beyond this year, where does Crow get drafted next year? First round? Second? (Assuming everything remains pretty much the same in CLE.)
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Early third is as soon as I'd take him, but I like getting WRs early. I feel he's going to be mostly like Alfred Morris. Constant 8-10 points plus TDs. I'd have to see more receptions to think otherwise. He's likely to be over drafted next year IMO.

 
Will probably get over-drafted next year, but I'll take him at the price of a free agent pickup for rest of this year. :cool:

 
jtp1982 said:
It took Crowell a while to rise up because West was drafted and Crowell wasn't. We don't care about that but coaches and GMs do, a lot.

But you know what means more? Getting them an away win they would have otherwise lost. He's on track to dominate carries going forward.
Click to expand...
I hope so, but at some point in the game you'd think the coaches would be seeing him perform and in that moment be thinking to themselves, "We gotta keep feeding this kid touches today!"

But, no. Despite the claim to ride the hot hand, they decide to give more touches to the lukewarm hand.

I used to think coaches just wanted to win. But I can't really explain the touch disparity other than to think that West is someone's guy who just can't believe what their eyes are telling them when they watch Crowell play.

 
just_want_2_win said:
NREC34 said:
just_want_2_win said:
So going beyond this year, where does Crow get drafted next year? First round? Second? (Assuming everything remains pretty much the same in CLE.)
Click to expand...
Second. In leagues where he falls lower than that people will be kicking themselves similar to Leveon Bell this year.
Click to expand...
High 2nd? Low 2nd?

I think you're right about the slowness to get on the bandwagon since he's not a household name (yet) and plays for CLE.
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I can't speak to the round, but he was already a household name among serious fantasy players. There was just disagreement on whether he was any good. That's just the nature of the game now with everyone trotting out their super-sleeper diamonds in the rough all over the internet. Their are no secret stashes anymore.

So next year you can expect to lump a bunch of his 2014 detractors into the "get Crow" camp. So there is no way in hell he'll be any kind of bargain.

I just think he may be the kind of guy that you can't really over-draft based on what he can do. That o-line may be even better next year. He could be a top 10 back next year. So I think he'll be one everyone's list of RB's to target after I go WR early.

 
So he's a bit of a fill in/waiver dude this year who has done well at times.

Helped me clinch my playoff spot in one league this week.

What happens when they go to a red-hot Buffalo next week? If CLE gets behind? I think that will be a very tough game for CLE and if anyone is going to be the multi-TD guy it is Gordon. That's a whole nother level of D up there and CLE will struggle on D to stop them.

He does clearly look to be the better back though.

 
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