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It's not looking good for the NFL to have a full season (1 Viewer)

jacobo_moses

Footballguy
I am seeing more reports from players and othere experts that it is looking more and more like some or all of the season will be lost. Are you guys feeling the same way.

I'm upset with both the players and the owners. The players for taking this damn thing to the courts which we all no takes forever to process and come up with decisions.

I'm upset with the owners for not being forthright and just saying well we need more of the revenue pie from you guys (THE NFLPA) but we don't need to show you the books and show where all our costs have gone up to run a team and so on.

I think both our to blame and its just childish for both to keep pointing the fingers at one another. They don't really think about the economic ripple effect not having a football season has on the US economy.

Post your thoughts on this and any recent news you have on this.

 
I am seeing more reports from players and othere experts that it is looking more and more like some or all of the season will be lost. Are you guys feeling the same way.
This is sort of silly - on a factual basis there is still plenty of time for all games to start on time.People's "feelings" or "thoughts" are pretty useless since they are not the ones driving the busWe should have a better idea at the end of this week - BUT even if the billionaires and millionaires are still tossing mud pies there IS plenty of time to get the season started on schedule.....doesn't mean it will happen but there is not a shortage of time......Yet
 
By August, the players will cave. For many of these players, if they take a year off, they will be done. Just because they stand up to fight for their rights does not mean that Father Time will stop the aging process...also, one the chips are down, the public will have no sympathy.

Undoubtedly, we will see more players lash out about how they are slaves or what not...that will further fall into the owners favor.

This will end by August.

 
By August, the players will cave. For many of these players, if they take a year off, they will be done. Just because they stand up to fight for their rights does not mean that Father Time will stop the aging process...also, one the chips are down, the public will have no sympathy.Undoubtedly, we will see more players lash out about how they are slaves or what not...that will further fall into the owners favor.This will end by August.
Maybe. Assuming what you say is true about the players, then the NFL gains more and more leverage and bargaining power the longer they wait. If the power tilts into their favor in August as you say, wouldn't they have even more power if they wait til september? More power still in october or november?
 
By August, the players will cave. For many of these players, if they take a year off, they will be done. Just because they stand up to fight for their rights does not mean that Father Time will stop the aging process...also, one the chips are down, the public will have no sympathy.Undoubtedly, we will see more players lash out about how they are slaves or what not...that will further fall into the owners favor.This will end by August.
Maybe. Assuming what you say is true about the players, then the NFL gains more and more leverage and bargaining power the longer they wait. If the power tilts into their favor in August as you say, wouldn't they have even more power if they wait til september? More power still in october or november?
Point of diminishing return (and actual loss by that point). They'll get this done by August. The players won't let their self-entitled aspirations interfere with the paycheck. They have it good, they know they have it good, and they just don't want to give too much of it back. It's still May. People are freaking out, but there is no way this thing doesn't get done by mid-August. We'll start the season in the nick of time...but at least on time. I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.
 
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They don't really think about the economic ripple effect not having a football season has on the US economy.
Some may argue not having an NFL season (and hence no betting; no fantasy football etc) might actually help people work more and hence lead to a better economy. Some can also argue it may lead to more family time .... or more crime if you are Ray Thug Lewis
 
They don't really think about the economic ripple effect not having a football season has on the US economy.
Some may argue not having an NFL season (and hence no betting; no fantasy football etc) might actually help people work more and hence lead to a better economy. Some can also argue it may lead to more family time .... or more crime if you are Ray Thug Lewis
Yeah, I could see that. It's a tough habit to break though. We all sort of have special football fan "dates" on our calendars. When we do our re-drafts, the draft parties, the opening week, first Monday Night Game, etc. It is more real for some of us than National Holidays like Memorial Day and Labor day. I never loved baseball like I did football. When baseball cancelled the World Series in 94 I turned on it and never really got back on. I imagine I will feel something similar if football closes shop. A real sense of betrayal. I have spent the last year actively following NHL (Tampa Lightning). I encourage others to do the same. In my experience, having watched big time college football, NFL regular and post season games, baseball, and NBA; I can say that the NHL was best sporting experience to see live. It kind of sucks on TV, but awesome live in person. Better than the NFL. This is where I will likely take my sports fix to.
 
Screw all of them. If they cancel the season....so be it.

We have NCAA football. I am sick and tired of reading and hearing about billionare owners and millionare players barking at each other.

Bottom line is the league is doing better than ever yet the owners want more back. I am clearly on the players side but it really in the end means nothing to me. I can live without NFL football at this stage of my life. Way to many other things I can do with my time and money.

Big deal.

And oh yeah...there will be a season. The players will cave...like they always do.

 
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They don't really think about the economic ripple effect not having a football season has on the US economy.
Some may argue not having an NFL season (and hence no betting; no fantasy football etc) might actually help people work more and hence lead to a better economy. Some can also argue it may lead to more family time .... or more crime if you are Ray Thug Lewis
Does that include the people who are losing their jobs because of the lockout? :confused:
 
'Captain Hook said:
'jacobo_moses said:
I am seeing more reports from players and othere experts that it is looking more and more like some or all of the season will be lost. Are you guys feeling the same way.
This is sort of silly - on a factual basis there is still plenty of time for all games to start on time.People's "feelings" or "thoughts" are pretty useless since they are not the ones driving the bus

We should have a better idea at the end of this week - BUT even if the billionaires and millionaires are still tossing mud pies there IS plenty of time to get the season started on schedule.....doesn't mean it will happen but there is not a shortage of time......Yet
:goodposting: I agree generally, and especially with the statement I bolded above. There is a shortage of time for some of the players in fantasy terms - those just entering the league - the rookie picks won't get the benefit of a full suite of coaching sessions, OTAs, and mini-camps, for example. Teams with new offensive systems/defensive systems will have a much-shorter-than-usual time window to install their new playbooks/verbiage. These are items that fantasy owners should pay attention to and give more weight to the longer the labor stoppage drags on.

On the other hand, veterans generally despise mini-camps, OTAs, and the start of training camp anyway, so teams with stable coaching staffs/systems shouldn't be unduly impacted as long as there is a sufficient amount of time for some sort of training camp in August. Teams may start slowly in September with some hiccups due to lack of reps, but once 2-3 games are played the established, stable units should be back up to top form.

Personally, I remain confident that neither side of this spat wants to sacrifice a full year's worth of income for the sake of a few 100 million dollars in difference between the sides negotiating stances. Billions of actual dollars in revenue will outweigh the importance of the difference in both sides' figures when push comes to shove, in my opinion. The lawyers will get their pound of flesh in legal fees, but both sides want NFL football to be played in 2011 for reasons of their own self-interest. They'd all be crazy to crash-and-burn the money-printing-press that is the NFL season.

 
'Captain Hook said:
'jacobo_moses said:
I am seeing more reports from players and othere experts that it is looking more and more like some or all of the season will be lost. Are you guys feeling the same way.
This is sort of silly - on a factual basis there is still plenty of time for all games to start on time.People's "feelings" or "thoughts" are pretty useless since they are not the ones driving the bus

We should have a better idea at the end of this week - BUT even if the billionaires and millionaires are still tossing mud pies there IS plenty of time to get the season started on schedule.....doesn't mean it will happen but there is not a shortage of time......Yet
:goodposting: I agree generally, and especially with the statement I bolded above. There is a shortage of time for some of the players in fantasy terms - those just entering the league - the rookie picks won't get the benefit of a full suite of coaching sessions, OTAs, and mini-camps, for example. Teams with new offensive systems/defensive systems will have a much-shorter-than-usual time window to install their new playbooks/verbiage. These are items that fantasy owners should pay attention to and give more weight to the longer the labor stoppage drags on.

On the other hand, veterans generally despise mini-camps, OTAs, and the start of training camp anyway, so teams with stable coaching staffs/systems shouldn't be unduly impacted as long as there is a sufficient amount of time for some sort of training camp in August. Teams may start slowly in September with some hiccups due to lack of reps, but once 2-3 games are played the established, stable units should be back up to top form.

Personally, I remain confident that neither side of this spat wants to sacrifice a full year's worth of income for the sake of a few 100 million dollars in difference between the sides negotiating stances. Billions of actual dollars in revenue will outweigh the importance of the difference in both sides' figures when push comes to shove, in my opinion. The lawyers will get their pound of flesh in legal fees, but both sides want NFL football to be played in 2011 for reasons of their own self-interest. They'd all be crazy to crash-and-burn the money-printing-press that is the NFL season.
I'm with Mark. Presuming the appellate court rules in favor of the owners this week, I don't believe there's much left for D. Smith to do without also agreeing to get back to the bargaining table. The unspoken angle here is all the rank and file players, who really don't stand to gain much by waiting this out, at least relative to what we believe is the last, best offer by ownership (assuming that offer or one better remains on the table).If we get this ruling, AND we get Doty handing the players treble damages on the DirecTV thing, THEN I could see it getting ugly at least in terms of getting immediately back to the table.

 
Lockout Contingency Plan Built into NFL Schedule?

As you may have heard, the NFL released it's schedule for the 2011 season on Tuesday night.

Normally, this is cause for celebration for NFL fans. This year, however, you got the sense that most diehard football fans were decidedly annoyed. After all, the NFL is currently in the midst of a labor crisis, and it is no sure thing that there is going to be a 2011 season at all.

The NFL knows this. Not surprisingly, they planned accordingly.

According to Pro Football Talk, which cites ESPN NFL guru Adam Schefter, there are some wrinkles in the 2011 schedule that serve as a kind of contingency plan in case the lockout threatens to eat into the season.

First and foremost, all Week 3 opponents have the same bye week later on in the season. In addition, there's a week off between the conference championships and the Super Bowl, and the NFL has booked hotels in Indianapolis for two weeks in February.

Big picture: the NFL basically gave itself three weeks to play with. If the first three weeks of the season are lost, the league has time to make them up.
 
The other fact is this. Drew Brees and players like Derrick Mason have expressed concern about the season being compromised. Which means one of 2 things.

1) Its a scare tactic to get the owners to up there recent offer.

or

2) They see the legal stuff and owners and players playing hardball starting to roll into some of the season. (And if they are worried then so am I.) :mellow:

 
The other fact is this. Drew Brees and players like Derrick Mason have expressed concern about the season being compromised. Which means one of 2 things.1) Its a scare tactic to get the owners to up there recent offer.or2) They see the legal stuff and owners and players playing hardball starting to roll into some of the season. (And if they are worried then so am I.) :mellow:
3) Derrick Mason knows that this is his last season. Not sure about Brees, he probably just wants to play.
 
The editor of Pro Football Weekly is not real optimistic about the 2011 season. For those of you who don't read PFW, he has been in the players corner from day 1 and still is. However, he thinks D Smith is not handling the confrontation with the owners well. He is also convinced many owners may be willing to miss the season. Google their website and read his articles. Maybe you will draw a different conclusion.

 
The editor of Pro Football Weekly is not real optimistic about the 2011 season. For those of you who don't read PFW, he has been in the players corner from day 1 and still is. However, he thinks D Smith is not handling the confrontation with the owners well. He is also convinced many owners may be willing to miss the season. Google their website and read his articles. Maybe you will draw a different conclusion.
I heard an interview with an NFLPA rep that was talking about DeMaurice Smith. Said Smith was asked up front before taking this fight that he wouldn't do it unless the NFLPA was "all in" and that he wouldn't let up till the players got what they wanted. It sounded to me like Smith has a bit of an ego, and the only way to break the stalemate is for him to step down. (just my opinion). If this is to be resolved, the wrong people are sitting at the table, and perhaps some people have been misled.
 
The editor of Pro Football Weekly is not real optimistic about the 2011 season. For those of you who don't read PFW, he has been in the players corner from day 1 and still is. However, he thinks D Smith is not handling the confrontation with the owners well. He is also convinced many owners may be willing to miss the season. Google their website and read his articles. Maybe you will draw a different conclusion.
The owners strategy from the beginning is we want to negoiate a deal, but it will be on our terms even if it means missing a season. Been this way for years.
 
An agent’s answer to: "Why don't we have football?" - by Jack Bechta

An agent’s answer to: "Why don't we have football?"

On Monday, May 23rd, I was a panelist on a round table discussion for a monthly gathering of San Diego Judges, District Attorneys, and lawyers. The room of about 80 legal eagles chatted, debated and talked about the state of labor in the NFL, the NBA and MLB. I thought this would be a good opportunity for me to get a parking ticket fixed. What I didn’t expect was the position the room took towards the NFL labor issues. I thought the group would love the fact that the future of the NFL is momentarily in the hands of judges and lawyers. However, I came away with a deeper concern about the players I represent and the uncertainty the future holds.

The first question I was asked: "Why is there no football?" Here was my answer:

The owners opted out of a deal that had 4 years left on it because they felt it weighed too heavy in the players’ favor. They simply want a better deal. In addition, I see 4 other more intangible reasons we are without a new CBA to date.

1) We have yet to hit a hard deadline . Football executives and lawyers are used to working against hard deadlines. Many of the player reps were first round draft choices, whose first deal got done right before camp, the day of or beyond. They’re second deal may have come right before or after the free agency deadline, so they understand that the best deals in the NFL usually get done up against a deadline, or even slightly there after.

We did have and do have, what I call soft deadlines, in which 2 have already come and gone. The first was the expiration of the CBA on March 3rd. The second was the start of the NFL draft on April 28th. To me, the third soft date, believe it or not, is probably the third week of June. That’s when the owners want to hit Sardinia and Martha’s Vineyard. The coaches hit the links and everybody employed by the NFL exhales for 2 or 3 weeks. Simultaneously, all the players scramble around the country to go on vacation as well. And everybody in this country likes to get things wrapped up before vacation. However, this year, everybody is on call and hesitant to make plans. Additionally, Head Coaches will quietly push to get access to their players.

Unfortunately, the next hard deadline is the opening of camp. The first camp opens on July 23rd, then the next hard deadline is 3 weeks prior to the start of the season as teams will need at least that amount of time to field a competent and healthy product.

Paul Tagliabue spent 17 years as Commissioner of the NFL before Goodell took over the reigns in 2006.

2) The Players are actually enjoying the time off. The veterans, especially, love resting their bodies and spending additional time with their families. The collective motivation to go to mini camp and OTA’s isn’t there, yet.

3) Lack of history and relationship at the very top. Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith don’t have history, and are two different types of guys with completely opposite styles. Roger is a roll up the sleeves, lets grab a drink and get to know each other kind of guy. He can be very informal, personable and even compromising. DeMaurice on the other hand is very formal, all business and doesn’t make a move without a calculated agenda. Both styles can be highly effective in any business arena but usually don’t work well together. Gene Upshaw and Paul Tagliabue had history and could communicate honestly with each other. That trust came together over years of prior battles and issues they overcame together. Roger, almost 5 years into his job as Commish, and DeMaurice with only 2 years into his job, haven’t had a chance to have a history but are making it right now.

4) A dangerous precedent. When Demaurice was elected to lead the union, I believe he was hired by the players because he was a proven and experienced labor expert. He came into a situation where players have enjoyed the most robust pay levels, benefits, and working conditions in NFL history. Now he is being asked by the owners to give some gains back without the proof of hardship. So, why in his right mind would he want to be known as “the guy who gave back” gains that the players endured pain and decades of work to achieve? There is no real upside for him here to simply make an “adjustment” to the current deal because the owners don’t like it. The owners have to realize this and have to give him a lot to work with if he is going to give anything back in term of gross revenues along with a lower salary cap. He has to walk away from this potential new CBA with a net gain for the players in other areas such as improved working conditions, long term benefits, guaranteed contracts, shorter terms to gain free agency and more proactivity on the injury prevention front. Furthermore, he can’t start a precedent that; it’s just okay to adjust down revenues at the end of every CBA.

Interestingly, I was surprised to learn that the lawyers and judges I spoke to during and after the symposium were collectively in agreement that there is a lot of danger with the NFL labor issues being in the courts. As one prominent long time active San Diego judge told me, “we have the tendency to keep peeling the onion and even deconstruct that of which took years of battles, negotiations and decades to build”. Another prominent San Diego sports Lawyer and USD Law professor, Len Simon , stated that, “the NFL draft, salary caps, wage scales, and the current free agency system are all illegal outside of a the CBA. If left in the courts too long it can potentially all be unraveled.”

To my surprise, the legal prefessionals took off their lawyer hats and vented just as any other concerned fans would do and emphasized to me to take the game out of the courts hands. I left the round table with uneasy feeling and an unfixed parking ticket.

Follow me on Twitter: @jackbechta

 
People say the players will cracking mid-July or aug... But when the owners have to start paying back the season tickets they'll bend as well.

 
People say the players will cracking mid-July or aug... But when the owners have to start paying back the season tickets they'll bend as well.
The difference is that the owners have other income and much more capital. However, both have a ton to lose...
 
By August, the players will cave. For many of these players, if they take a year off, they will be done. Just because they stand up to fight for their rights does not mean that Father Time will stop the aging process...also, one the chips are down, the public will have no sympathy.Undoubtedly, we will see more players lash out about how they are slaves or what not...that will further fall into the owners favor.This will end by August.
That's the way I see it. Look for the end of career guys to cave 1st along with Stat-whore Manning who cannot afford to lose a year and still break Favre's records. Then followed by the guys who (incredibly) live paycheck to paycheck.
 
Even if there is a "regular" full season, I think we are getting close to the point where the damage has already been done. The longer this plays out the more damage don't the the teams as for a gelling as a unit learning the play book, getting into shape. Timing for the QB and WRs.

The more time that passes the more luck and not skill will play into the draft, which IMHO will ruin the fantasy season. All the write up and projections are based on teams working as usual, not this mishmash of some working, some not, some individually some in small groups.

I think we are getting close to the point where, a well prepared draft for this year will be not better than a Yahoo automated draft, and that is not a season I have much interest in.

 
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'atcdav said:
Even if there is a "regular" full season, I think we are getting close to the point where the damage has already been done. The longer this plays out the more damage don't the the teams as for a gelling as a unit learning the play book, getting into shape. Timing for the QB and WRs.The more time that passes the more luck and not skill will play into the draft, which IMHO will ruin the fantasy season. All the write up and projections are based on teams working as usual, not this mishmash of some working, some not, some individually some in small groups.I think we are getting close to the point where, a well prepared draft for this year will be not better than a Yahoo automated draft, and that is not a season I have much interest in.
I see your point of view and agree with some of it. But if you turn this argument over, you can see that there is a limited window of opportunity for savvy owners to pounce on late preseason information and draft a better team. For those that draft early, you're right. It will be all luck. This also sets up as a season where early season waiver wire shoppers who use priority of bulk of thier budget use them up quickly. Or quicker than usual. If you look at the new ground rules as another challenge to navigate, you might be surprised what an edge you could have over others who are confused and set themselves up to "auto-draft" strategies.
 
'Football Critic said:
'ThePittbully said:
Im hoping this last just long enough to cancel the preseason, as a ticket holder I could use that $800 back.
Sounds like a true football fan. :rolleyes: We need a little bit of a preseason, I dont want my favorite team rusty.
You plan on paying $800 for Pitbully to watch the David Clowneys of the world play? It's called Arena League, and is a helluva lot cheaper than $800 for three meaningless games. I am not a season ticket holder, but if I was, I would be on Pitbully's bandwagon for sure.
 
I hope they are tired of blaming each other and ready to sit down and hammer this out for real. Get it done guys, find a way to split a few hundred $million so both sides are happy.

Work it out-the season is getting here fast.

 
Totally Agree. I think if they can have a deal in place by the 4th of July. Then we will have a full preseason and Season. If not. Then the weeks are going to start getting cut back a little.

 
Totally Agree. I think if they can have a deal in place by the 4th of July. Then we will have a full preseason and Season. If not. Then the weeks are going to start getting cut back a little.
Excluding preseason, they could wait until mid- to late-august and still have a full season.
 
Totally Agree. I think if they can have a deal in place by the 4th of July. Then we will have a full preseason and Season. If not. Then the weeks are going to start getting cut back a little.
Excluding preseason, they could wait until mid- to late-august and still have a full season.
They could, but it would probably make for some sloppy football, at least in the early going.
A lot of sky-is-falling mentality in this thread. First, it's not even going to get to this. I think recent events reflect that we're nearing the end-stage of this mess, and something will likely get done this month or somewhere soon after the July 4 holiday. Second, I don't think we'll notice much of a difference at all in the level of play. Guys will likely get fatigued sooner, due to less conditioning. But, guys who can play will play just fine and with the playbooks undoubtedly being simplified, I just don't think we'll pay attention or care one way or another.Point is, we'll be fine. We'll have football sooner rather than later. And get a full season of it, to boot.
 
Yesterday's and today's developments are promising. I think something big could happen in the next couple weeks, before the court has to issue a ruling. Let's hope so.

 
'Football Critic said:
'ThePittbully said:
Im hoping this last just long enough to cancel the preseason, as a ticket holder I could use that $800 back.
Sounds like a true football fan. :rolleyes: We need a little bit of a preseason, I dont want my favorite team rusty.
You plan on paying $800 for Pitbully to watch the David Clowneys of the world play? It's called Arena League, and is a helluva lot cheaper than $800 for three meaningless games. I am not a season ticket holder, but if I was, I would be on Pitbully's bandwagon for sure.
I know the importance of preseason and all and I get what you're saying Sweet Love, but I'm not above hoping to get some cash (quite a bit of cash for me) back into my wallet. I'm so tired of having to dish out full price every year for completely meaningless games, I'll be more than happy to see them cancelled for once. And maybe the markup on after market tickets won't be so ridiculous for everyone else if ticket owners aren't forced to eat the cost of the two games that cant be sold for diddly squat
 
Sure hope this is true-everyone wants to make money.

@realfreemancbs

mike freeman

Multiple sources continue to tell me a deal could be struck between owners and players before 8th circuit rules in July.

 
Totally Agree. I think if they can have a deal in place by the 4th of July. Then we will have a full preseason and Season. If not. Then the weeks are going to start getting cut back a little.
Excluding preseason, they could wait until mid- to late-august and still have a full season.
They could, but it would probably make for some sloppy football, at least in the early going.
A lot of sky-is-falling mentality in this thread. First, it's not even going to get to this. I think recent events reflect that we're nearing the end-stage of this mess, and something will likely get done this month or somewhere soon after the July 4 holiday. Second, I don't think we'll notice much of a difference at all in the level of play. Guys will likely get fatigued sooner, due to less conditioning. But, guys who can play will play just fine and with the playbooks undoubtedly being simplified, I just don't think we'll pay attention or care one way or another.Point is, we'll be fine. We'll have football sooner rather than later. And get a full season of it, to boot.
I agree.
 
If they negotiate diligently it will get done. Negotiating for a half day one week, then taking two weeks off then negotiating a day followed by two weeks off isn't gonna get it done.

If they negotiate as much as the hardcore free for all guys waste their lives there or the average American watches tv we will have football.

 
Im hoping this last just long enough to cancel the preseason, as a ticket holder I could use that $800 back.
Sounds like a true football fan. :rolleyes: We need a little bit of a preseason, I dont want my favorite team rusty.
You plan on paying $800 for Pitbully to watch the David Clowneys of the world play? It's called Arena League, and is a helluva lot cheaper than $800 for three meaningless games. I am not a season ticket holder, but if I was, I would be on Pitbully's bandwagon for sure.
I know the importance of preseason and all and I get what you're saying Sweet Love, but I'm not above hoping to get some cash (quite a bit of cash for me) back into my wallet. I'm so tired of having to dish out full price every year for completely meaningless games, I'll be more than happy to see them cancelled for once. And maybe the markup on after market tickets won't be so ridiculous for everyone else if ticket owners aren't forced to eat the cost of the two games that cant be sold for diddly squat
I think you missed my point...I am on your side here. I appreciate the season ticket holders as their dollars not only go to "my team" and the league in general, but they actually enable to see my team on a weekly basis.
 
Yesterday's and today's developments are promising. I think something big could happen in the next couple weeks, before the court has to issue a ruling. Let's hope so.
:goodposting: A deal done before the courts issue a ruling will protect BOTH side's interests, IMO. Getting out from under the court's thumb is the best case scenario.
 

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