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J Charles hurt ? (1 Viewer)

like i mentioned before, hurting yourself randomly while not being hit is not a GOOD sign, so I am curious as to what happened? Did he ran and just have an awkward cut/landing? Did he just roll over an ankle? because you don't just walk/run around and get injured unless something is unstable in the foot.
What in gods name are your talking about? Most muscle strains , tears, pulls etc are occur without any contact. Typically broken bones occure from contact.

But soft tissue injuries? Plenty without anyone ever touching you.
I get what you are saying but you misguided in what i was trying to suggest. RG3 injured himself without being hit too. usually when you are hurt by NOT being hit, it's not necessarily a GOOD thing, like I suggested, so I am curious as to HOW Charles hurt himself. Did he just turn over his ankle, make an awkward landing. If I was walking around or running and doing it "normally", and hurt a soft tissue I'd be curious and concerned that something is not so great with my foot.

So, I am curious as to HOW charles injured himself. if he was just walking and running normally and something went "wrong" that is not great as compared to just turning it over, landing awkwardly, etc (which I understand could lead to a worse injury).
Ok....so let me put it this way. You can easily pull or strain a muscle by doing normal everyday things...like walking, running, cutting. That is my point. All it means is you either did not stretch or warm up properly, maybe your particular muscle you strained was fatigued, maybe the muscle was already sore and you pushed it.

Your entire body is a pre-exsisting injury waiting to happen when it comes to muscle strains, tears and pulls. All it takes is for your muscle to not be awake or ready to go from zero to sixty. And that is usually when you get a pull, or strain. Also if your working hard and try to push through some soreness (your muscles way of telling you...hey I am tired) you can strain it.

My point is you really should not try to draw any conclusion in the fact this was a non-contact injury. They happen all the time in camp to hundreds of players in the league.

 
ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury is not "a matter of serious concern" based on the initial diagnosis.

On Sirius XM Radio, Reid went so far as to suggest Charles could return to practice on Tuesday. Preliminary signs point to a day-to-day injury for Charles, despite a previous report of "private" concern over the ailment inside the Chiefs' organization. For now, Charles is only thought to have a foot strain. Aug 12 - 2:57 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4617/jamaal-charles
No clue how bad it is, but coaches always spew that line.

MJD and Murray were supposedly week to week for months according to what their coaches were saying.

MJD's didn't admit his lisfranc until after the season was over.

 
like i mentioned before, hurting yourself randomly while not being hit is not a GOOD sign, so I am curious as to what happened? Did he ran and just have an awkward cut/landing? Did he just roll over an ankle? because you don't just walk/run around and get injured unless something is unstable in the foot.
What in gods name are your talking about? Most muscle strains , tears, pulls etc are occur without any contact. Typically broken bones occure from contact.

But soft tissue injuries? Plenty without anyone ever touching you.
I get what you are saying but you misguided in what i was trying to suggest. RG3 injured himself without being hit too. usually when you are hurt by NOT being hit, it's not necessarily a GOOD thing, like I suggested, so I am curious as to HOW Charles hurt himself. Did he just turn over his ankle, make an awkward landing. If I was walking around or running and doing it "normally", and hurt a soft tissue I'd be curious and concerned that something is not so great with my foot.

So, I am curious as to HOW charles injured himself. if he was just walking and running normally and something went "wrong" that is not great as compared to just turning it over, landing awkwardly, etc (which I understand could lead to a worse injury).
Ok....so let me put it this way. You can easily pull or strain a muscle by doing normal everyday things...like walking, running, cutting. That is my point. All it means is you either did not stretch or warm up properly, maybe your particular muscle you strained was fatigued, maybe the muscle was already sore and you pushed it.

Your entire body is a pre-exsisting injury waiting to happen when it comes to muscle strains, tears and pulls. All it takes is for your muscle to not be awake or ready to go from zero to sixty. And that is usually when you get a pull, or strain. Also if your working hard and try to push through some soreness (your muscles way of telling you...hey I am tired) you can strain it.

My point is you really should not try to draw any conclusion in the fact this was a non-contact injury. They happen all the time in camp to hundreds of players in the league.
the distinction I am drawing was from slipped/awkward landing/turning over on foot as opposed to no none of the previous mentioned activities.

not from no contact to contact.

If we heard "Charles slipped when running a pattern and injured his foot" or "Charles was running and then just collapsed" what "feels" worse?

He may be okay or screwed in both, but I'd be more concerned about scenario 2. THAT was my distinction.

Of course this is more of a "pre diagnosis" debate which is why I was curious as to the circumstances that occurred when he got injured. :)

 
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ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury is not "a matter of serious concern" based on the initial diagnosis.

On Sirius XM Radio, Reid went so far as to suggest Charles could return to practice on Tuesday. Preliminary signs point to a day-to-day injury for Charles, despite a previous report of "private" concern over the ailment inside the Chiefs' organization. For now, Charles is only thought to have a foot strain. Aug 12 - 2:57 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4617/jamaal-charles
No clue how bad it is, but coaches always spew that line.

MJD and Murray were supposedly week to week for months according to what their coaches were saying.

MJD's didn't admit his lisfranc until after the season was over.
Agreed. This is why you have to watch if the players are full participants in practice or if they get more reps as the game approaches--that is the clearer sign.

It's a pain when X player is limited all week, is then declared questionable, etc. nightmare.

(some players are always like this and never miss a game--TJ Hous comes to mind, maybe Richardson last year).

So, how will we know if Charles is fine?

Step 1--no xray or mri issue

Step 2-- practices!

Step 3-- plays in any preseason game (obviously step 3 would the clearest indication).

until then, step 2 may have to suffice as long as he is playing in 11 on 11 drills. if he is not practicing at all, I cannot say Charles is "fine" no matter what the Coaches say. He may be fine, but as a drafter why would I even have to worry about "guessing" on Charles' health in the first round. I'll go to the next running back.

If you already have Charles, well, then....good luck and I hope he is okay.

 
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THIS IS A FAKE REPORT TO PROVE A POINT, PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury totally screws the team. IF Charles is out for any significant time the Chiefs chances of being competitive are shot and both men are beside themselves with concern. Reid could barely speak to Werder because of the uncontrollable sobbing.

is that what you'd expect to see?

hell no, they have to paint it pretty!

 
Such an interesting case...

It's too early to read into Schefter's initially worrisome report, Werder's followup of no concern, Schefter's lack of rebuttal on same show, Reid-Dorsey deflecting on Sirius, Caplan then quoting Reid as saying, essentially "We'll see." and now Mortensen's tweeting that an MRI is coming. And then the sprain-strain discussion added by Florio.

We'll know when we know. :)

 
THIS IS A FAKE REPORT TO PROVE A POINT, PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury totally screws the team. IF Charles is out for any significant time the Chiefs chances of being competitive are shot and both men are beside themselves with concern. Reid could barely speak to Werder because of the uncontrollable sobbing.

is that what you'd expect to see?

hell no, they have to paint it pretty!
This is bad news if true.

 
THIS IS A FAKE REPORT TO PROVE A POINT, PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury totally screws the team. IF Charles is out for any significant time the Chiefs chances of being competitive are shot and both men are beside themselves with concern. Reid could barely speak to Werder because of the uncontrollable sobbing.

is that what you'd expect to see?

hell no, they have to paint it pretty!
This is bad news if true.
read the disclaimer at the top ;) .

 
THIS IS A FAKE REPORT TO PROVE A POINT, PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury totally screws the team. IF Charles is out for any significant time the Chiefs chances of being competitive are shot and both men are beside themselves with concern. Reid could barely speak to Werder because of the uncontrollable sobbing.

is that what you'd expect to see?

hell no, they have to paint it pretty!
This is bad news if true.
:lmao:

 
THIS IS A FAKE REPORT TO PROVE A POINT, PLEASE DO NOT BE DECEIVED!

ESPN's Ed Werder reported Monday Chiefs coach Andy Reid and GM John Dorsey believe Jamaal Charles' right foot injury totally screws the team. IF Charles is out for any significant time the Chiefs chances of being competitive are shot and both men are beside themselves with concern. Reid could barely speak to Werder because of the uncontrollable sobbing.

is that what you'd expect to see?

hell no, they have to paint it pretty!
This is bad news if true.
read the disclaimer at the top ;) .
Do what now?

 
4617.jpg

ESPN's Adam Schefter reiterated on NFL Live Monday that "privately" there are "a couple of people" in the Chiefs' organization who are "concerned" about Jamaal Charles' right foot injury.
Colleague Chris Mortensen added Charles is scheduled for an MRI Monday. Though X-rays confirmed Charles does not have a broken foot, the MRI could show a severe or mild sprain and will ultimately determine Charles' timetable for recovery. At Chiefs practice Monday, following Charles' departure, rookie Knile Davis handled the majority of first-team reps, with Shaun Draughn behind him.
Aug 12 - 4:13 PM

 
Let's see what tomorrow brings. But I don't believe Reid's statement means anything either way.

Benson, Mcgahee and Turner's ears just perked up though. Even though they aren't a good fit for Reid's offense they might be better than the rosetted options for 2013 and depth if not.

 
wouldn't have had the MRI by now or atleast tonight? Keep reading that he was in little pain (for a NFL player ofcourse) and was trying to simply walk it off, these are all good signs.

 
Such an interesting case...

It's too early to read into Schefter's initially worrisome report, Werder's followup of no concern, Schefter's lack of rebuttal on same show, Reid-Dorsey deflecting on Sirius, Caplan then quoting Reid as saying, essentially "We'll see." and now Mortensen's tweeting that an MRI is coming. And then the sprain-strain discussion added by Florio.

We'll know when we know. :)
KC fans had better get used to this daily rhetoric really quick.......

 
Such an interesting case...

It's too early to read into Schefter's initially worrisome report, Werder's followup of no concern, Schefter's lack of rebuttal on same show, Reid-Dorsey deflecting on Sirius, Caplan then quoting Reid as saying, essentially "We'll see." and now Mortensen's tweeting that an MRI is coming. And then the sprain-strain discussion added by Florio.

We'll know when we know. :)
KC fans had better get used to this daily rhetoric really quick.......
Did Reid say he has do a better job of putting Charles in position to not hurt himself?

 
Such an interesting case...

It's too early to read into Schefter's initially worrisome report, Werder's followup of no concern, Schefter's lack of rebuttal on same show, Reid-Dorsey deflecting on Sirius, Caplan then quoting Reid as saying, essentially "We'll see." and now Mortensen's tweeting that an MRI is coming. And then the sprain-strain discussion added by Florio.

We'll know when we know. :)
KC fans had better get used to this daily rhetoric really quick.......
Did Reid say he has do a better job of putting Charles in position to not hurt himself?
Not specifically targeting this incident, but.........yes. Reid always says he "has to do a better job, blah, blah, blah".....he's just not capable of it.

 
like i mentioned before, hurting yourself randomly while not being hit is not a GOOD sign, so I am curious as to what happened? Did he ran and just have an awkward cut/landing? Did he just roll over an ankle? because you don't just walk/run around and get injured unless something is unstable in the foot.
What in gods name are your talking about? Most muscle strains , tears, pulls etc are occur without any contact. Typically broken bones occure from contact.But soft tissue injuries? Plenty without anyone ever touching you.
I get what you are saying but you misguided in what i was trying to suggest. RG3 injured himself without being hit too. usually when you are hurt by NOT being hit, it's not necessarily a GOOD thing, like I suggested, so I am curious as to HOW Charles hurt himself. Did he just turn over his ankle, make an awkward landing. If I was walking around or running and doing it "normally," and hurt a soft tissue in my foot or ankle, I'd be curious and concerned that something is not so great with my foot or ankle.So, I am curious as to HOW charles injured himself. if he was just walking and running normally and something went "wrong" that is not great as compared to just turning it over, landing awkwardly, slipped, etc (which I understand could lead to a worse injury). [suggesting that normal activity leading to a soft tissue injury suggests instability in that muscle to begin with].
A knee is a whole different ballgame as far as non contact injuries.

 
I wouldn't make a big deal out of him being "carted off".... a lot of guys have been "carted off" at Chiefs camp regardless of what the injury is. EX: Bowe was carted off for leg cramps early on in Camp. There were a few other guys carted off with minor injuries.

Sounds like Dorsey and Reid are not overly concerned, X-rays were negative but I haven't heard anything on MRI yet. That doesn't mean JC is in the clear yet, but it doesn't sound as bad as some had thought.
Yeah, sounds more like he "got a ride"

 
like i mentioned before, hurting yourself randomly while not being hit is not a GOOD sign, so I am curious as to what happened? Did he ran and just have an awkward cut/landing? Did he just roll over an ankle? because you don't just walk/run around and get injured unless something is unstable in the foot.
What in gods name are your talking about? Most muscle strains , tears, pulls etc are occur without any contact. Typically broken bones occure from contact.But soft tissue injuries? Plenty without anyone ever touching you.
I get what you are saying but you misguided in what i was trying to suggest. RG3 injured himself without being hit too. usually when you are hurt by NOT being hit, it's not necessarily a GOOD thing, like I suggested, so I am curious as to HOW Charles hurt himself. Did he just turn over his ankle, make an awkward landing. If I was walking around or running and doing it "normally," and hurt a soft tissue in my foot or ankle, I'd be curious and concerned that something is not so great with my foot or ankle.So, I am curious as to HOW charles injured himself. if he was just walking and running normally and something went "wrong" that is not great as compared to just turning it over, landing awkwardly, slipped, etc (which I understand could lead to a worse injury). [suggesting that normal activity leading to a soft tissue injury suggests instability in that muscle to begin with].
RGIII was definetly hit

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1853933/rg3hurt.gif

I know you're talking about the playoff game, but I'd say this had a pretty significant part in it.

 
like i mentioned before, hurting yourself randomly while not being hit is not a GOOD sign, so I am curious as to what happened? Did he ran and just have an awkward cut/landing? Did he just roll over an ankle? because you don't just walk/run around and get injured unless something is unstable in the foot.
What in gods name are your talking about? Most muscle strains , tears, pulls etc are occur without any contact. Typically broken bones occure from contact.But soft tissue injuries? Plenty without anyone ever touching you.
I get what you are saying but you misguided in what i was trying to suggest. RG3 injured himself without being hit too. usually when you are hurt by NOT being hit, it's not necessarily a GOOD thing, like I suggested, so I am curious as to HOW Charles hurt himself. Did he just turn over his ankle, make an awkward landing. If I was walking around or running and doing it "normally," and hurt a soft tissue in my foot or ankle, I'd be curious and concerned that something is not so great with my foot or ankle.So, I am curious as to HOW charles injured himself. if he was just walking and running normally and something went "wrong" that is not great as compared to just turning it over, landing awkwardly, slipped, etc (which I understand could lead to a worse injury). [suggesting that normal activity leading to a soft tissue injury suggests instability in that muscle to begin with].
RGIII was definetly hit

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1853933/rg3hurt.gif

I know you're talking about the playoff game, but I'd say this had a pretty significant part in it.
Yeah. The playoff game just showed how unstable his knee was when "on his own" it gave out twice. Once on the second td pass and yet again when he injured it trying to recover the fumble.

The assertion stays the same....which would scare you most:

(1) Charles was running when he slipped on wet turf, and as a result of the slip, injured his foot.

(2) Charles was running when he just collapsed because it was later learned he has a soft tissue injury on his foot.

Both are non contract injuries but to me (2) seems scarier. Makes you wonder what happened. At least with the scenario (1) we know it was because he slipped. Scenario (2) who knows, muscle instability, wear and tear, did not stretch, etc.

As mentioned before BOTH scenarios can be bad or good, but we are just speculating. It's simply a prediagnosis debate, which is why I was curious as to what happened.

Once we know the diagnosis it won't matter how/why he got injured--obviously ;) .

 
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Why does everyone just keep posting with speculation? Why not just let this thread rest until more concrete news comes out? Don't you guys have work or school or something?

 
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Why does everyone just keep posting with speculation? Why not just let this thread rest until more concrete news comes out? Don't you guys have work or school or something?
Because we love to speculate and guess. Hehe.

concrete news--Wait to see if he practice and then adjust.

Don't people go to the gym or something?! ;)

 
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Still awaiting additional reports and I've probably doomed myself to a complete rewrite in ten minutes, but here's a post addressing the most common questions I'm getting right now...
As a 9x dynasty owner it's painful to say that IMO it seems more like the Chiefs are worried and doing the best they can to convince people they've got it under control until they get more info and decide how to address things than it is that Charles is OK and will be back in short order.

Mort withdrawing that tweet is especially worrisome IMO.

 
I wouldn't make a big deal out of him being "carted off".... a lot of guys have been "carted off" at Chiefs camp regardless of what the injury is. EX: Bowe was carted off for leg cramps early on in Camp. There were a few other guys carted off with minor injuries.

Sounds like Dorsey and Reid are not overly concerned, X-rays were negative but I haven't heard anything on MRI yet. That doesn't mean JC is in the clear yet, but it doesn't sound as bad as some had thought.
Yeah, sounds more like he "got a ride"
From what it sounds like, they've been using the cart for everything. I was listening to the local radio here and they were saying how its a lot easier to cart these guys off then have them walk 500 yards up the hill to the facilities even if its for something minor... especially when its a lower body injury. Sounds like more of a precautionary thing, No need to have them walk on it when they can cart them up the hill real quick. An example they gave on the radio was they carted a guy off just so he could use the restroom. So again, I'm optimistic about him being ready for week 1 assuming the MRI doesn't show any serious damage. Wouldn't surprise me if they held him out for a bit to be on the safe side

 
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Still awaiting additional reports and I've probably doomed myself to a complete rewrite in ten minutes, but here's a post addressing the most common questions I'm getting right now...
As a 9x dynasty owner it's painful to say that IMO it seems more like the Chiefs are worried and doing the best they can to convince people they've got it under control until they get more info and decide how to address things than it is that Charles is OK and will be back in short order.

Mort withdrawing that tweet is especially worrisome IMO.
If the MRI is negative and he returns to practice this week, then it's all good. But until those two things happen, I totally agree with your stance and wouldn't trust the coach speak one bit. Hopefully all will be revealed in short order but until it does, this adds a MAJOR wrinkle to the first round of drafts.

 
Jamaal Charles - RB - Chiefs
A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk that Jamaal Charles (foot) is "fine."
The source offers up nothing more. The Chiefs have already said Charles is dealing with a foot strain, and X-rays later confirmed that there were no broken bones. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Charles is walking around but is "having trouble pushing off." He'll almost certainly be held out of this week's exhibition game. Charles' timetable for recovery is currently unknown.


Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Aug 12 - 8:24 PM

 
Jamaal Charles - RB - Chiefs
A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk that Jamaal Charles (foot) is "fine."
The source offers up nothing more. The Chiefs have already said Charles is dealing with a foot strain, and X-rays later confirmed that there were no broken bones. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Charles is walking around but is "having trouble pushing off." He'll almost certainly be held out of this week's exhibition game. Charles' timetable for recovery is currently unknown.


Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Aug 12 - 8:24 PM
So how many different reports are we going to hear today? Geez.

 
I'm not going to take either side on this yet, but...

With the invention of social media where reporters can with a flick of the wrist post something based on "feel" or "vibe" added to the fact that most serious fantasy players use blogs or message boards...

mother of god do these things snowball out of control within minutes based on wild speculation going both ways.

I think proper thing here is just to note that he injured his foot and to wait for MRI results and to note when he starts participating again. I wouldn't be worried at this point until either something official comes down or if he does not practice at all leading up to your draft....

 
Jamaal Charles - RB - Chiefs
A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk that Jamaal Charles (foot) is "fine."
The source offers up nothing more. The Chiefs have already said Charles is dealing with a foot strain, and X-rays later confirmed that there were no broken bones. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Charles is walking around but is "having trouble pushing off." He'll almost certainly be held out of this week's exhibition game. Charles' timetable for recovery is currently unknown.


Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Aug 12 - 8:24 PM
So how many different reports are we going to hear today? Geez.
You are going to hear every update along the way. :lol:

 
Jamaal Charles - RB - Chiefs
A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk that Jamaal Charles (foot) is "fine."
The source offers up nothing more. The Chiefs have already said Charles is dealing with a foot strain, and X-rays later confirmed that there were no broken bones. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Charles is walking around but is "having trouble pushing off." He'll almost certainly be held out of this week's exhibition game. Charles' timetable for recovery is currently unknown.


Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Aug 12 - 8:24 PM
So how many different reports are we going to hear today? Geez.
I think the plan is to keep posting them till we get a bad one.

The deal seems to be: Ignore good reports, and believe negative ones as gospel.

 
Jamaal Charles - RB - Chiefs
A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk that Jamaal Charles (foot) is "fine."
The source offers up nothing more. The Chiefs have already said Charles is dealing with a foot strain, and X-rays later confirmed that there were no broken bones. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Charles is walking around but is "having trouble pushing off." He'll almost certainly be held out of this week's exhibition game. Charles' timetable for recovery is currently unknown.


Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Aug 12 - 8:24 PM
So how many different reports are we going to hear today? Geez.
You are going to hear every update along the way. :lol:
yep, just passing along info... i don't own him in any of my leagues, just want to snag his handcuff :shark:

 
Jamaal Charles - RB - Chiefs
A source with knowledge of the situation tells Profootballtalk that Jamaal Charles (foot) is "fine."
The source offers up nothing more. The Chiefs have already said Charles is dealing with a foot strain, and X-rays later confirmed that there were no broken bones. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports Charles is walking around but is "having trouble pushing off." He'll almost certainly be held out of this week's exhibition game. Charles' timetable for recovery is currently unknown.


Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports
Aug 12 - 8:24 PM
So how many different reports are we going to hear today? Geez.
I think the plan is to keep posting them till we get a bad one.

The deal seems to be: Ignore good reports, and believe negative ones as gospel.
Teams have a fair bit of incentive to try and hide problems, and not much incentive to deceive when the news is good. So IMO when there are conflicting reports being attributed to people who ought to know what's going on it's pretty logical to shade expectations to the gloomier side for the time being.

 
The only conflicting report we have is Shefter saying people are "concerned". Otherwise, everything else has been good. He caught a ride with the cart, not carted off, a source tells PFT that Charles is fine, and Reid said he may practice Tuesday.

We have had a ton of injuries so far, not sure we have seen ANY cloak and dagger stuff so far, why would this be different?

 
The only conflicting report we have is Shefter saying people are "concerned". Otherwise, everything else has been good. He caught a ride with the cart, not carted off, a source tells PFT that Charles is fine, and Reid said he may practice Tuesday.

We have had a ton of injuries so far, not sure we have seen ANY cloak and dagger stuff so far, why would this be different?
I don't think Schefter's report is the only negative one. Rappaport says he can't put weight on it. They're going for an MRI. Maybe it's precautionary and maybe it's because they suspect something specific.

I'd love it and it would make 2013 a much better year for me if Charles isn't hurt. But I think it's maybe 60/40 that things are worse with Charles than the Chiefs are letting on right now. i.e. there's no way to know what to make of the conflicting info and I'm inclined to shade towards the negative since it's all apparently coming from inside the Chiefs'.

FWIW I own Gronk a ton also and have thought the signs pointed to him avoiding PUP all along since the only people suggesting otherwise weren't in a position to know what was going on.

 
WTF, this is the kind if stuff about preseason that drives me nuts. Nobody, I mean NOBODY can get their story straight here.

 

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