Jamaal Charles and the Weiss effect (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Pink]

The Chiefs go into the 2010 season with now a head coach and an offensive coordinator whose offensive philosophy has historically been pass first. Granted, in the case of either coach, much of that philosophy has been driven by the personnel and the system.

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree. However, he had little more to go with as the Chiefs' offensive personnel was overall, suspect at best.

Enter in Charlie Weiss, whose offenses in New England emphasized the pass over the run in general, and more specifically, used the short passing game with the RBs as an extension of the running game. Unlike the situation he enters into, Weiss had power running backs in his stable like Corey Dillon and Antowain Smith that carried the load, with backs like Kevin Faulk and JR Redmond saw their action on passing downs.

My intent with this post is to get the thoughts of the Shark Pool on what Charles' role in this offense may be in 2010, based on the philosophies and historical performances of the HC's and OC's offenses.

 

[David Yudkin]

I'm not sure I would call Weiss is a pass first offense coordinator.

1997 Jets 564/431

1998 Jets 532/500

1999 Jets 476/486

2000 Pats 565/424

2001 Pats 482/473

2002 Pats 605/395

2003 Pats 537/473

2004 Pats 485/524

Overall 4246/3706 (53%/47%)

I think he's been more of a balanced attack, but that a lot would depend on the success of the defense and the team in general.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree.

Actually, Haley was totally clueless about Charles. He gave Larry Johnson the starting gig, inactivated Charles for a week early in the season, and tried to do a timeshare with Kolby Smith instead of making Charles the #1 back. Only after Johnson imploded and Kolby Smith got hurt did Charles get his full-time shot. And even then Haley "thought Charles was a 15 touch/game back."Charles succeeded despite his coach doing everything possible to screw it up.

 

[MAC_32]

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree.

Actually, Haley was totally clueless about Charles. He gave Larry Johnson the starting gig, inactivated Charles for a week early in the season, and tried to do a timeshare with Kolby Smith instead of making Charles the #1 back. Only after Johnson imploded and Kolby Smith got hurt did Charles get his full-time shot. And even then Haley "thought Charles was a 15 touch/game back."Charles succeeded despite his coach doing everything possible to screw it up.

His GM tried to sell him for a 5th round pick too, it is possible Charles just isn't as good as his play down the stretch indicates. Remember what Julius Jones did when he first broke out? How'd that work out?

 

[treat88]

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree.

Actually, Haley was totally clueless about Charles. He gave Larry Johnson the starting gig, inactivated Charles for a week early in the season, and tried to do a timeshare with Kolby Smith instead of making Charles the #1 back. Only after Johnson imploded and Kolby Smith got hurt did Charles get his full-time shot. And even then Haley "thought Charles was a 15 touch/game back."Charles succeeded despite his coach doing everything possible to screw it up.

Weis might help, but so far Haley is about as bad a HC as I've seen.

 

[TLEF316]

hopefully he can catch a fade route.

 

[stbugs]

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree.

Actually, Haley was totally clueless about Charles. He gave Larry Johnson the starting gig, inactivated Charles for a week early in the season, and tried to do a timeshare with Kolby Smith instead of making Charles the #1 back. Only after Johnson imploded and Kolby Smith got hurt did Charles get his full-time shot. And even then Haley "thought Charles was a 15 touch/game back."Charles succeeded despite his coach doing everything possible to screw it up.

His GM tried to sell him for a 5th round pick too, it is possible Charles just isn't as good as his play down the stretch indicates. Remember what Julius Jones did when he first broke out? How'd that work out?

Julius Jones has as much to do with Charles as Tom Brady does. How'd that work out?Point is, until next season, no one really knows. The one thing I would point to is that post season, Haley and the Chiefs (Charles was named team MVP) have lauded Charles' performance and basically, IIRC, admitted that they underestimated Charles. I take that to be a very positive sign and mean that RB is no longer considered a weakness and is probably considered a strength.

 

[jackdubl]

Weiss coached Curtis Martin in NY. Martin had:

'98 - 369 rush/43 rec/9 td

'99 - 367 rush/45 rec/5 td

So the touches were there when there was a primary ballcarrier under Weiss. New England was more of a committee approach, so the real question is how they'll treat Charles next season. I wouldn't say Charles is hurt at all by Weiss being there.

 

[Steelfan7]

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree.

Actually, Haley was totally clueless about Charles. He gave Larry Johnson the starting gig, inactivated Charles for a week early in the season, and tried to do a timeshare with Kolby Smith instead of making Charles the #1 back. Only after Johnson imploded and Kolby Smith got hurt did Charles get his full-time shot. And even then Haley "thought Charles was a 15 touch/game back."Charles succeeded despite his coach doing everything possible to screw it up.

His GM tried to sell him for a 5th round pick too, it is possible Charles just isn't as good as his play down the stretch indicates. Remember what Julius Jones did when he first broke out? How'd that work out?

I've not seen a quote from Pioli that he offered Charles for a 5th. I hope you're not comparing Charles' skill set to Julius Jones.

 

[wiersface]

Jamaal Charles bandwagon is pulling in baby. I was sort of forced to keep charles after welkers knee injury, but since then he and the chiefs have done nothing but boost my moral on the whole situation. The day welker went down charles busted it off for 259 and a pair of touchdowns, the team voted him mvp, coach haley came out and said he has underestimated charles and that charles has proven to be more than a 15 carry man, weis was brought in as offensive coordinator and that will help charles pass catching skills, i am in a ppr league. His vision, speed and shiftiness have allowed charles to exceed at the nfl level for a terrible team and become the first player to rush for over 1100 yards with fewer than 200 carries, hell his goalline abilities even looked fairly solid all things considered I believe charles will finish in the top ten rbs next year and that weis's arrival will only help his situation.

 

[MAC_32]

Todd Haley recongnized a good offensive asset in Jamaal Charles when he saw him, and utilized him to a great degree.

Actually, Haley was totally clueless about Charles. He gave Larry Johnson the starting gig, inactivated Charles for a week early in the season, and tried to do a timeshare with Kolby Smith instead of making Charles the #1 back. Only after Johnson imploded and Kolby Smith got hurt did Charles get his full-time shot. And even then Haley "thought Charles was a 15 touch/game back."Charles succeeded despite his coach doing everything possible to screw it up.

His GM tried to sell him for a 5th round pick too, it is possible Charles just isn't as good as his play down the stretch indicates. Remember what Julius Jones did when he first broke out? How'd that work out?

I've not seen a quote from Pioli that he offered Charles for a 5th. I hope you're not comparing Charles' skill set to Julius Jones.

Reported after Charles' 250+ yd performance, look it up.And, no.

 

[Aardvarks]

As much as I love Charles, and recognize that he is nearly as talented as Chris Johnson (though I suspect less durable), I am tempering my expectations a little b/c of this Weis thing.

I like my fantasy players and the offensive lines to be in their 2nd/3rd year in the same system. Across the board. It's just a rule I use when deciding on similarly ranked players. We don't know if Weis is going let Charles be the 20-touch bell cow every week.

And this is hard for me to say because I started the Charles bandwagon 2 days before the Official Bandwagon thread started on this board. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=jamaal++julius

That said, I still might take him with one of my 2 picks if I'm on the #11 or #12 turn. Charles is a helluva player.

 

[footballsavvy]

As much as I love Charles, and recognize that he is nearly as talented as Chris Johnson (though I suspect less durable), I am tempering my expectations a little b/c of this Weis thing.

I like my fantasy players and the offensive lines to be in their 2nd/3rd year in the same system. Across the board. It's just a rule I use when deciding on similarly ranked players. We don't know if Weis is going let Charles be the 20-touch bell cow every week.

And this is hard for me to say because I started the Charles bandwagon 2 days before the Official Bandwagon thread started on this board. http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...=jamaal++julius

That said, I still might take him with one of my 2 picks if I'm on the #11 or #12 turn. Charles is a helluva player.

I own Charles and everyone is entitled to opinion but where do you get a suspicion that Charles will be less durable? History has shown the opposite to be true on small backs like Charles and Johnson....they are actually more durable than bruisers. An ACL injury can strike anyone at anytime and no one is more or less prone to those. Why do you suspect Charles to be an injury risk?

 

[Aardvarks]

I didn't say injury risk.

I simply said I suspect he might be less durable than Chris Johnson.

I simply eyeballed several instances where Charles got knocked around and had to leave momentarily. He got pounded a few times and Todd Haley even voiced that. If you owned JC and watched every snap you know what I mean. No big deal.

Chris Johnson -- who's only appeared on an NFL Regular Season injury report once (ankle/probable) in his 32-game career (think about that) -- just seems to get low and find the right angles to avoid big collisions... at least unwanted collisions. CJ reminds me of Edge in his prime in that respect.

The main thrust of my post is that I'm not overjoyed that JC has to "start over" in a new offense again. That's all.

 

[Aardvarks]

I didn't say injury risk.

I simply said I suspect he might be less durable than Chris Johnson.

I simply eyeballed several instances where Charles got knocked around and had to leave momentarily. He got pounded a few times and Todd Haley even voiced that. If you owned JC and watched every snap you know what I mean. No big deal.

Chris Johnson -- who's only appeared on an NFL Regular Season injury report once (ankle/probable) in his 32-game career (think about that) -- just seems to get low and find the right angles to avoid big collisions... at least unwanted collisions. CJ reminds me of Edge in his prime in that respect.

The main thrust of my post is that I'm not overjoyed that JC has to "start over" in a new offense again. That's all.

Going off topic I know, but before someone says "Wait, CJ got hurt in that playoff game against Baltimore last year"... it's not true. CJ hit 100 total yards before halftime so Rex Ryan sent out a hit on him: Bart Scott grabbed and twisted CJ's ankle in a gruesome manner under the pile... ending his day in the 2nd quarter. That's a fact, by the way. Back to Jamaal Charles...

 

[David Yudkin]

The Chiefs are interested in bringing in another RB. Currently they have their sights on Thomas Jones.

 

[TS Garp]

The Chiefs are interested in bringing in another RB. Currently they have their sights on Thomas Jones.

I posted this in another JC thread, but here's a quote from Haley (speaking about JC) that adds some credibility to the Jones rumor:Q: Are you going to try to get him some help this off-season?

A: Yeah, one way or another, we need to get him some help, because you know he's 200 lbs. soaking wet. And though that's something he's working on and he knows it's a critical off-season, I think in this day and age, you have to give somebody some help or the time will be short.

 

[TS Garp]

Jones to officially visit Chiefs:

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/10096080025

 

[az_prof]

I can't get Weiss' miserable performance in Notre Dame out of my head, so it is hard for me to imagine him as an offensive genius who is going to make his NFL players better than they are.

 

[menobrown]

The Chiefs are interested in bringing in another RB. Currently they have their sights on Thomas Jones.

I posted this in another JC thread, but here's a quote from Haley (speaking about JC) that adds some credibility to the Jones rumor:Q: Are you going to try to get him some help this off-season?

A: Yeah, one way or another, we need to get him some help, because you know he's 200 lbs. soaking wet. And though that's something he's working on and he knows it's a critical off-season, I think in this day and age, you have to give somebody some help or the time will be short.

I think Haley is giving Charles bad advice. Chris Johnson is built the same as Charles but he seems to have held up just fine. I fear Charles might make the same mistake Slaton did last year which is being told you need to bulk up and losing your speed and elusiveness which is what made you good in the first place. If it's not broke don't fix it.