Jamaal Charles reminds me of Julius Jones (1 Viewer)

[Brady Gaga]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

True, but I think his brother does. Say what you want about his age, but Thomas Jones rushed for more yards last year than everyone but SJax and Johnson and scored more TDs than everyone but ADP and MJD. There is no way his impact on Charles won't be felt. IMO for their respective ADP Jones is the back to have in KC. He might outscore Charles and can be had many, many rounds later.

I've been trying to tell people this as well. Charles gets the Receptions but Jones likely gets the goalline work. I think Jones gets 75-85% of the points charles does (with a bellcurve variance outside that) and you're talking about 2nd round vs 8-10th rounds. IMO Jones can be had as a RB3 and will perform like a great RB2 this year. Charles will likely produce at RB1 numbers but there are guys with a little less risk (admittedly also with a little less upside as well).

If it wasn't for McCluster I'd be a more confident in Charles' ability to finish top 10. That one extra mouth might keep him from earning his ADP. We'll see....

Is Thomas Jones better than McGahee right now? I'm not sure......maybe they're close but the Jets line gave Jones more room for a plodder to be successful. I do think TJ will steal a lot of GL carries but I don't see him coming close to the yardage he had last year.

 

[[icon]]

Is Thomas Jones better than McGahee right now? I'm not sure......maybe they're close but the Jets line gave Jones more room for a plodder to be successful. I do think TJ will steal a lot of GL carries but I don't see him coming close to the yardage he had last year.

I don't think anyone is saying Jones is going to rush for the same yardage. Realistically I think we're going to be looking at a 1000/700 split between Charles/Thomas. IMO Thomas gets the goalline work and edges Charles out by a TD or two. Charles gets 3-4x the receptions of Jones. You're right, Jones isn't going to be a 1400yd bellcow, but he's going to eat up a lot of Charles' carries.

 

[Sopranos25]

Is Thomas Jones better than McGahee right now? I'm not sure......maybe they're close but the Jets line gave Jones more room for a plodder to be successful. I do think TJ will steal a lot of GL carries but I don't see him coming close to the yardage he had last year.

I don't think anyone is saying Jones is going to rush for the same yardage. Realistically I think we're going to be looking at a 1000/700 split between Charles/Thomas. IMO Thomas gets the goalline work and edges Charles out by a TD or two. Charles gets 3-4x the receptions of Jones. You're right, Jones isn't going to be a 1400yd bellcow, but he's going to eat up a lot of Charles' carries.

I can go with that. IMO if JC gets 18-20 touches he is a solid # 2.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Is Thomas Jones better than McGahee right now? I'm not sure

No way. But that does bring up a good model for his usage this season.

 

[jackdubl]

As a Charles owner, I'll be watching closely how he and the other backs are used during preseason. And the situation will be pretty darn good for him if that first preseason game is any indication.

 

[Brady Gaga]

This could be a situation where TJ is more of a hinderance to JC early in the season and then later in the season, when TJ starts to wear down, then JC piles up a lot of yardage to help in finish top 10 and to help owners win in the playoffs

Just hope he doesn't stop you from reaching the playoffs if he gets off to a slow start.

 

[Couch Potato]

Great post.. good info.. if you dont like him dont draft him or reply. its that easy..

I thought this was a FF discussion board? Since when was this place about shutting out contrarian opinions? Particularly in a thread where the OP was geared toward that very mindset?

Hey, don't argue with Sopranos or you'll end up taking a dirt nap. Capish?

 

[[icon]]

This could be a situation where TJ is more of a hinderance to JC early in the season and then later in the season, when TJ starts to wear down, then JC piles up a lot of yardage to help in finish top 10 and to help owners win in the playoffs

I had stated exactly this in the spotlight thread. I see just this happening. If you get to the playoffs and have Charles on a healthy team you're in very good shape. They've got a killer Playoff schedule to boot.

 

[VaTerp]

Remember when Julius exploded onto the scenes in the 2004 season? He was running circles around defenses and looked faster than everyone else. In the final 7 games he had 803 yards.

Fast forward a year to 2005, an off-season that had alot of people drinking the koolaid, and you find a back that only broke 100 yards one time and finished with just under 1,000 yards, despite getting a strong workload.

Charles barely touched the ball in the first half of 2009, gaining around 150 yards in the first 8 games. Then we all know about the 1,000 yards in the final 8 games. (including a huge week 17 game against a pathetic broncos D)

Not sure why I posted this, as I think many owner's feel similar reservations about Jamaal..But I thought the comparison seemed just about right and thought I'd share.

Thoughts?

No, I don't remember this part. Yes, Jones had a great half of a season and there was much hype about him in FF circles but I think this comparison is off for a number of reasons, most of which have already been stated.In terms of "looked faster than everyone," NO. Julius Jones NEVER had the type of speed that Charles has. I am more tempered on Charles than a lot of people. I have him as my RB15 and think he is certainly a high risk/reward player and understand the reservations many, including myself have about him.

But again, the Julius Jones comparison IMO is very much off base unless you just want to make a point about guys being hyped based on a short body of work. And there are lots examples of that on both sides of the argument.

 

[Sopranos25]

Great post.. good info.. if you dont like him dont draft him or reply. its that easy..

I thought this was a FF discussion board? Since when was this place about shutting out contrarian opinions? Particularly in a thread where the OP was geared toward that very mindset?

Hey, don't argue with Sopranos or you'll end up taking a dirt nap. Capish?

I agree, Forgattabatit

 

[[icon]]

Great post.. good info.. if you dont like him dont draft him or reply. its that easy..

I thought this was a FF discussion board? Since when was this place about shutting out contrarian opinions? Particularly in a thread where the OP was geared toward that very mindset?

Hey, don't argue with Sopranos or you'll end up taking a dirt nap. Capish?

I agree, Forgattabatit

GB n00bs.

 

[Sopranos25]

Great post.. good info.. if you dont like him dont draft him or reply. its that easy..

I thought this was a FF discussion board? Since when was this place about shutting out contrarian opinions? Particularly in a thread where the OP was geared toward that very mindset?

Hey, don't argue with Sopranos or you'll end up taking a dirt nap. Capish?

I agree, Forgattabatit

GB n00bs.

Not that it matters i was Sapronos04 and have been a member for 7 years and have 2 to 3 k's posts. My email changed and i had NO help to keep that ID

 

[Chase Stuart]

Some more on Charles, and how he did against teams relative to other running backs against those same teams: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=7081

Charles was only the main man for 8 games last year, but in 5 of those games, he put up one of the three best rushing performances against that opponent.

 

[Cyclones]

Well, one interesting thing I've noticed is that I've talked to half the owners in my league this last week to line up preparations for our draft this weekend and I'm pretty sure that he is gonna slide to round four in my ten teamer. Do you guys that are down on him think that that would be value?Everybody has heard that Jones is running with the first team. I'm not saying that reaching for him in round 2 is a good idea but I remember having some good years when I managed to get Westbrook in the third or fourth because some leagues have really conservative owners.

If I'm taking Charles, I wanna have a few things nailed down first. 1. A stud RB2. A top WR3. A 2nd RB or a top 8 or 9 QBThat obviously means the 4th is where I'd like to take Charles. As a few posters have alluded to, his production was pretty significant, and puts him on levels shared with guys like Portis, Peterson, Sanders, etc.However, I've mentioned the reasons that I have reservations, and so I don't want to be left relying on Charles as my number 1 RB, as PERSONALLY, he reminds me a little bit of Julius. Getting massive playing time mid-year, against tired defenses, that mostly weren't very good.

This - I got Charles in the 5th after taking MJD, Rodgers, Marshall, and Gates. I am more than comfortable taking my shot there.

 

[Babu Bhatt2]

This is a fascinating situation that I'm keeping my eye on because I have both Charles and Jones in various leagues. I feel much more comfortable as a Jones owner right now. Looking at Charles' build, I can see why Haley is reluctant to use him. The proper comparison isn't Chris Johnson, Portis, or Gore IMO, and it's not Julius Jones either. It's Jerious Norwood. Look at Charles, with his long legs below the knee and lack of muscle, it's just like Norwood. And those kind of backs get hurt easily.

At Jones' ADP I see him as a high upside guy, believe it or not. He's being drafted around Chester Taylor, Steve Slaton, and Ricky Williams, and I think he has the most upside of the bunch this year. If Charles stays healthy, I'd put Jones at around 175 carries, 10 catches, 7 TDs, Charles at 160 carries, 40 catches, 6 TDs. If Charles gets hurt, Jones could put up 4.1 YPC numbers on 20+ carries per game again, which is where the upside comes in.

 

[doowain]

I get that people are hyped by JC's end of season run last year and its easy to get caught up in it. Trust me, I did it with Slaton last year.

Oof. Seems as though you may be overthinking it a bit based on past mistakes?Also....are you worried about JC as a star NFL back in terms of dynasty value or redraft value? I'm getting hints of both here. Your comparison to JJ makes me think you expect him to all but disappear. But then you promote TJ over JC based on ADP. What gives?

 

[cjack]

Anyone concerned about Weis' tendency to utilize multiple backs? There were a couple of years in New England when he rode guys like Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon relatively hard, but for some of those years, he was mixing in a lot of K. Faulk, and misc. fullbacks. He likes to spread the wealth in the backfield, and he doesn't really seem to favor a strong rushing offense, whether at New England or Notre Dame. I can see Charles getting involved quite a bit in the passing game, but giving way to Jones or others in other facets of the rushing game and goalline situations.

Just throwing it out there.

 

[doowain]

I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of Thomas Jones. He's 32. They didn't draft another RB. Haley has a history of "motivating" his star players (see D.Bowe). Charles was coming off a shoulder injury and TJ was the best available FA RB. It made sense to sign him.

If you are saying you question JC's redraft ADP based on all of this, OK. That's one thing. But, if you are running the opposite direction in a dynasty league based on these things, I think you are missing the boat.

Jamaal Charles isn't CJ3. And he isn't Jerious Norwood (I lol'ed at that one). He's Jamaal Charles. I don't know why guys always find the need to compare a player to another current player and expect that to be a measure of future success. Recipe for disaster IMO. JC was very productive in college and has only devoted his full time to being a RB for 3 seasons (2 as a Chief and one at Texas -- he ran track the other two years). That tells me he's only going to get better as he learns the ins and outs of the position.

In reference to Norwood, I'll give you a quick response as to why that's a bad comparison. JC has superior lateral agility and balance to Norwood. That will help him to keep himself free of big hits. Norwood can't do that. He runs like he's on fire, but it always looks as if he's going to fall down (and he often does). This lack of balance opens Norwood up and leads to his constantly being nicked up. Until JC shows that same penchant for injury, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[doowain]

Anyone concerned about Weis' tendency to utilize multiple backs? There were a couple of years in New England when he rode guys like Antowain Smith and Corey Dillon relatively hard, but for some of those years, he was mixing in a lot of K. Faulk, and misc. fullbacks. He likes to spread the wealth in the backfield, and he doesn't really seem to favor a strong rushing offense, whether at New England or Notre Dame. I can see Charles getting involved quite a bit in the passing game, but giving way to Jones or others in other facets of the rushing game and goalline situations.Just throwing it out there.

So, you're saying that Weis rides a back when one of those backs is superior talent-wise to the other backs on the roster (Dillon/Smith) and employs a RBBC when he doesn't (Faulk, etc.)?In that case, I'd feel confident that JC will be the guy as at this point in their careers Charles is far more explosive and talented than Thomas Jones. We seem to forget that as good as TJ's final numbers were last year, he faded down the stretch and was replaced by Shonn Greene....even in the playoffs. Then the Jets let him walk. That has to tell you a lot right there.(Btw, officially aboard the JC train)

 

[Babu Bhatt2]

I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of Thomas Jones. He's 32. They didn't draft another RB. Haley has a history of "motivating" his star players (see D.Bowe). Charles was coming off a shoulder injury and TJ was the best available FA RB. It made sense to sign him. If you are saying you question JC's redraft ADP based on all of this, OK. That's one thing. But, if you are running the opposite direction in a dynasty league based on these things, I think you are missing the boat.Jamaal Charles isn't CJ3. And he isn't Jerious Norwood (I lol'ed at that one). He's Jamaal Charles. I don't know why guys always find the need to compare a player to another current player and expect that to be a measure of future success. Recipe for disaster IMO. JC was very productive in college and has only devoted his full time to being a RB for 3 seasons (2 as a Chief and one at Texas -- he ran track the other two years). That tells me he's only going to get better as he learns the ins and outs of the position.In reference to Norwood, I'll give you a quick response as to why that's a bad comparison. JC has superior lateral agility and balance to Norwood. That will help him to keep himself free of big hits. Norwood can't do that. He runs like he's on fire, but it always looks as if he's going to fall down (and he often does). This lack of balance opens Norwood up and leads to his constantly being nicked up. Until JC shows that same penchant for injury, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that Charles has not played football for long works against him, not for him, IMO. We don't know that he can take a pounding without getting hurt. You have to at least give me credit in one respect--his body type is similar to Norwood. I'll grant you that Charles is more athletic than Norwood. I think if Charles can stay healthy, he will be productive--the same goes for Norwood. I simply have doubts that Charles will stay healthy with a full load of carries based on his body type. And Haley might too, which would explain Thomas Jones getting the starting job.

 

[Glaven]

I'm not sure why everyone is so scared of Thomas Jones. He's 32. They didn't draft another RB. Haley has a history of "motivating" his star players (see D.Bowe). Charles was coming off a shoulder injury and TJ was the best available FA RB. It made sense to sign him.

If you are saying you question JC's redraft ADP based on all of this, OK. That's one thing. But, if you are running the opposite direction in a dynasty league based on these things, I think you are missing the boat.

Jamaal Charles isn't CJ3. And he isn't Jerious Norwood (I lol'ed at that one). He's Jamaal Charles. I don't know why guys always find the need to compare a player to another current player and expect that to be a measure of future success. Recipe for disaster IMO. JC was very productive in college and has only devoted his full time to being a RB for 3 seasons (2 as a Chief and one at Texas -- he ran track the other two years). That tells me he's only going to get better as he learns the ins and outs of the position.

In reference to Norwood, I'll give you a quick response as to why that's a bad comparison. JC has superior lateral agility and balance to Norwood. That will help him to keep himself free of big hits. Norwood can't do that. He runs like he's on fire, but it always looks as if he's going to fall down (and he often does). This lack of balance opens Norwood up and leads to his constantly being nicked up. Until JC shows that same penchant for injury, let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that Charles has not played football for long works against him, not for him, IMO. We don't know that he can take a pounding without getting hurt. You have to at least give me credit in one respect--his body type is similar to Norwood. I'll grant you that Charles is more athletic than Norwood. I think if Charles can stay healthy, he will be productive--the same goes for Norwood. I simply have doubts that Charles will stay healthy with a full load of carries based on his body type. And Haley might too, which would explain Thomas Jones getting the starting job.

He didn't do too bad in his last year at Texas getting 258 carries and gaining 1617 rushing yards.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Well, one interesting thing I've noticed is that I've talked to half the owners in my league this last week to line up preparations for our draft this weekend and I'm pretty sure that he is gonna slide to round four in my ten teamer. Do you guys that are down on him think that that would be value?Everybody has heard that Jones is running with the first team. I'm not saying that reaching for him in round 2 is a good idea but I remember having some good years when I managed to get Westbrook in the third or fourth because some leagues have really conservative owners.

If I'm taking Charles, I wanna have a few things nailed down first. 1. A stud RB2. A top WR3. A 2nd RB or a top 8 or 9 QBThat obviously means the 4th is where I'd like to take Charles. As a few posters have alluded to, his production was pretty significant, and puts him on levels shared with guys like Portis, Peterson, Sanders, etc.However, I've mentioned the reasons that I have reservations, and so I don't want to be left relying on Charles as my number 1 RB, as PERSONALLY, he reminds me a little bit of Julius. Getting massive playing time mid-year, against tired defenses, that mostly weren't very good.

I'll move backwards here. 1st-KC's SOS versus the run looks pretty soft again this year, so if he was able to tear it up last year against soft defenses, he should have that same opportunity this year.2nd-Jones being in KC should help Charles to stay fresher, which goes along with the "fresh legs/tired defense" aspect of last year.3rd-I would not feel comfortable with Charles as my #1, either, but that is more because there are very few non-RBBC situations anymore, and with my #1 RB, I want one of those guys. As my #2, though, I like Charles.

charles will be fine. sometimes is best not to overthink things.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Some more on Charles, and how he did against teams relative to other running backs against those same teams: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=7081

Charles was only the main man for 8 games last year, but in 5 of those games, he put up one of the three best rushing performances against that opponent.

but he is little and the coach plays head games.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

I like Charles for this year, but this list isn't really that comparable to him. A better comparison is guys who barely played the first half of the season and then broke out bigtime in the second half when they were given the job.Offhand (and I'm sure I'm missing some), the guys that immediately come to mind are Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, William Green, and Larry Johnson. Of the bunch, only LJ went on to be less than a horrible bust, and that was mainly because he was on the best team for FF running backs we've ever seen.

 

[Mark Wimer]

There is no question that Charles feasted on bad run defenses - he killed me in the playoffs in two leagues - but backs at the NFL level SHOULD HAVE FEASTED on those dis-spirited, very subpar units. Against Pittsburgh in week 11, he ran the ball 17 times for 58 yards (and added 2/8/1 receiving to salvage the day for his fantasy owners). 2.15 yards per carry against one of the few decent defenses that he faced. Color me unimpressed.

I dunno if that's fair, Mark. The last four weeks he roasted Buffalo, Cleveland and Denver, all of whom had bad rush defenses as you alluded to. On the other hand:1) His performance against the Bills was still one of the two-to-four best performances by any running back against Buffalo. Yes, they stunk, but he beat up Buffalo in a comparable way to what Chris Johnson did, and only Thomas Jones (22-210-1) had a clearly better game all season long against the Bills.2) Yes, Cleveland wasn't very good last year, but they did play better at the end of the season, winning all of their last four matchups, including against Charles' Chiefs. In week 1, Adrian Peterson tore the Browns to shreds, but Cleveland clearly was a different team at the end of the year. And can you show me another RB after week 1 that did better against Cleveland then Charles?3) Sure, Denver's run D wasn't very good last season. But no one else came within 100 yards of the 259 he put up against the Broncos.4) The last game in the final quarter of the season came against the Bengals, a team with a great defense in '09. Charles' 24-102 stat line was one of the best performances by any RB against Cincinnati. Only Jerome Harrison topped him with 29-121.I can see the argument that Charles ran roughshod over bad defenses (Cincy excluded). I don't see how you would be unimpressed, though.

Hey Chase, Sorry I missed out on this response - here's my take on the explosive performance level of Charles vs. Denver, Cincy, etc.The passing game was a shambles in K.C. last year. They lost Gonzales to ATL and had no viable replacement. Dwayne Bowe had issues with authority and was generally not motivated to play at a high level IMO. Chris Chambers is a half-decent possession receiver at this point, but hardly an explosive playmaker. Cassel struggled in his first season in K.C. So, as I have laid out in other Charles threads, the situation at the end of the year in K.C. amounted to a "perfect storm" for Charles. He was, literally, the only reliable playmaker on the team by the end of the year. Bowe didn't score a TD after week 9, was in and out of the lineup, and he was dreadful in reception %9 KC JAX 0 0 0 10 4 74 0 7.4 10 KC OAK 0 0 0 11 6 91 0 9.1 15 KC CLE 0 0 0 10 4 56 0 5.616 KC CIN 0 0 0 12 9 61 0 6.1 17 KC DEN 0 0 0 1 1 6 0 0.6 Chambers at least played, but only scored two TDs from week 10 on (2 week nine, then one vs. SD and one vs. CLE).Larry Johnson was gone after week 7, and landed in CIN for the second half of the season. So, what happened is that Charles got fed an inordinate amount of touches because of the state of the K.C. roster/special circumstances. That's why he piled up such enormous numbers vs. DEN, CLE, etc. This year, the team has Thomas Jones in the mix at RB. A hybrid RB/WR in Dexter McCluster. The WR situation and the TE situation hasn't changed, but Cassel at least looked half-decent in preseason week 2. Bottom line here, for me, is that Charles enjoyed a rare segment of one season in which he was the focus of the K.C. offense. From everything we've seen this year to date, the team is determined to NOT go down that path again. I truly doubt that he'll see more than 50-55% of the RB touches this year, with Jones and McCluster in that mix (McCluster vulturing receptions in 3rd down situations and on other downs, too). Jones probably scores more TDs. Charles' ADP is out of proportion with his likely opportunities in K.C. He simply won't see enough action as things stand now. I know some people expect Jones to fall apart/become ineffective but I think IF that does happen (late in the season like last year), it will ALREADY be too late for fantasy owners who paid a premium pick for Charles: a part-time RB who isn't the goal-line option in town.My .

 

[shader]

There is no question that Charles feasted on bad run defenses - he killed me in the playoffs in two leagues - but backs at the NFL level SHOULD HAVE FEASTED on those dis-spirited, very subpar units. Against Pittsburgh in week 11, he ran the ball 17 times for 58 yards (and added 2/8/1 receiving to salvage the day for his fantasy owners). 2.15 yards per carry against one of the few decent defenses that he faced. Color me unimpressed.

I dunno if that's fair, Mark. The last four weeks he roasted Buffalo, Cleveland and Denver, all of whom had bad rush defenses as you alluded to. On the other hand:1) His performance against the Bills was still one of the two-to-four best performances by any running back against Buffalo. Yes, they stunk, but he beat up Buffalo in a comparable way to what Chris Johnson did, and only Thomas Jones (22-210-1) had a clearly better game all season long against the Bills.2) Yes, Cleveland wasn't very good last year, but they did play better at the end of the season, winning all of their last four matchups, including against Charles' Chiefs. In week 1, Adrian Peterson tore the Browns to shreds, but Cleveland clearly was a different team at the end of the year. And can you show me another RB after week 1 that did better against Cleveland then Charles?3) Sure, Denver's run D wasn't very good last season. But no one else came within 100 yards of the 259 he put up against the Broncos.4) The last game in the final quarter of the season came against the Bengals, a team with a great defense in '09. Charles' 24-102 stat line was one of the best performances by any RB against Cincinnati. Only Jerome Harrison topped him with 29-121.I can see the argument that Charles ran roughshod over bad defenses (Cincy excluded). I don't see how you would be unimpressed, though.

Hey Chase, Sorry I missed out on this response - here's my take on the explosive performance level of Charles vs. Denver, Cincy, etc.The passing game was a shambles in K.C. last year. They lost Gonzales to ATL and had no viable replacement. Dwayne Bowe had issues with authority and was generally not motivated to play at a high level IMO. Chris Chambers is a half-decent possession receiver at this point, but hardly an explosive playmaker. Cassel struggled in his first season in K.C. So, as I have laid out in other Charles threads, the situation at the end of the year in K.C. amounted to a "perfect storm" for Charles. He was, literally, the only reliable playmaker on the team by the end of the year. Bowe didn't score a TD after week 9, was in and out of the lineup, and he was dreadful in reception %9 KC JAX 0 0 0 10 4 74 0 7.4 10 KC OAK 0 0 0 11 6 91 0 9.1 15 KC CLE 0 0 0 10 4 56 0 5.616 KC CIN 0 0 0 12 9 61 0 6.1 17 KC DEN 0 0 0 1 1 6 0 0.6 Chambers at least played, but only scored two TDs from week 10 on (2 week nine, then one vs. SD and one vs. CLE).Larry Johnson was gone after week 7, and landed in CIN for the second half of the season. So, what happened is that Charles got fed an inordinate amount of touches because of the state of the K.C. roster/special circumstances. That's why he piled up such enormous numbers vs. DEN, CLE, etc. This year, the team has Thomas Jones in the mix at RB. A hybrid RB/WR in Dexter McCluster. The WR situation and the TE situation hasn't changed, but Cassel at least looked half-decent in preseason week 2. Bottom line here, for me, is that Charles enjoyed a rare segment of one season in which he was the focus of the K.C. offense. From everything we've seen this year to date, the team is determined to NOT go down that path again. I truly doubt that he'll see more than 50-55% of the RB touches this year, with Jones and McCluster in that mix (McCluster vulturing receptions in 3rd down situations and on other downs, too). Jones probably scores more TDs. Charles' ADP is out of proportion with his likely opportunities in K.C. He simply won't see enough action as things stand now. I know some people expect Jones to fall apart/become ineffective but I think IF that does happen (late in the season like last year), it will ALREADY be too late for fantasy owners who paid a premium pick for Charles: a part-time RB who isn't the goal-line option in town.My .

Great post. Yes, I think Charles is explosive. Yes he has the ability to make bigtime plays.But I just don't see him coming close to the numbers he put up towards the end of 2009. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But there are more players fighting for the ball now. Cassell and Bowe seem to be better this year, and you have Jones and McCluster to deal with too.

 

[Glaven]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

I like Charles for this year, but this list isn't really that comparable to him. A better comparison is guys who barely played the first half of the season and then broke out bigtime in the second half when they were given the job.Offhand (and I'm sure I'm missing some), the guys that immediately come to mind are Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, William Green, and Larry Johnson. Of the bunch, only LJ went on to be less than a horrible bust, and that was mainly because he was on the best team for FF running backs we've ever seen.

The thing is, Jamaal Charles' numbers blow William Green/Julius Jones numbers out of the water. Both William Green and Julius Jones averaged something like 3.5-4.1 yards per carry over the 2nd half in their "breakout" seasons. Jamaal Charles averaged over 5.5 yards per carry, or pretty well 1.5 yards better per carry. Not very comparable imo.

 

[Todem]

Thomas Jones isnt bringing the Jets OL with him. I think he gets exposed big time this year but time will tell

Funny, I think Greene gets exposed. But time will tell as you say.

Very Jamal Charles has far more talent than Julius Jones. Not even close. And Greene? It is well documented about my thoughts on him. He will be by far the biggest dissapointment drafted at RB this season.Charles is not hype IMO the kid has the goods.