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Jamaal Charles Thread: Hall of Famer? (2 Viewers)
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
That's messed up
Godsbrother
Footballguy
No warm and fuzzy feelings coming from Charles. Makes it really hard to know what to do on draft day.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
I was hopping this wouldn't happen till after the 3rd preseason game. Loved his adp in the 2nd. He should see a steady rise in ADP to the late first. Hopefully he wont play in any preseason games and people stay down on him. Was really looking forward to a Miller, Charles start in non-ppr.
Assuming he comes back at full strength (which is now looking probable), I have fewer doubts about JC as I do about any of the other top RBs outside of Peterson and Gurley. I'd even consider him over David Johnson -- not totally sure I could pull the trigger on that one, but it's at least a debate for me.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Why is this the prevailing sentiment when charles has two ACLs and a high ankle sprain in the last 4 years and is the same age as Foster?
Is it the prevailing sentiment? My impression is that his ADP has fallen as low as the 20s (though I expect it to come back a bit if he has no further setbacks before Week 1).
Can't speak for others, but my judgment is that he came back very strong from his previous ACL tear and remains the focal point of the offense, without getting the kind of crazy DeMarco-esque workload that might otherwise predict an inevitable breakdown. He also has no history of the more worrisome soft-tissue injuries that have plagued Foster.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
My only concern is they ease him in and it goes well enough that we see Ware and West eat up some high value touches.
Andrew74
Footballguy
For me the concern is the ACL at 29. The other ACL was his other knee, 5 yrs ago, and a complete fluke (slipping on a down marker). The HAS in 2014 cost him 1 game. Maybe this is the end.
Foster appears broken He's missed significant time 2 of last 3 years and several games in 2014.
I'll grant you this: The way he came back from that last ACL tear was not the norm. With a few notable exceptions (Peterson, Palmer, Welker to an extent) guys are rarely as productive their first year back. So you could look at that and say, "He did it once, he can do it again" or you can say, "He did it once in his mid-20s, but he's much more of a risk to do it again in his late-20s."
I'm leaning toward the former, but I admit to having some concerns.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
So Charles ADP was somewhere around 15-20. How far should it drop now? I can't see taking him in the 2nd round with this news and his history.
ponchsox
Footballguy
Here are the Q&A's with Charles from yesterday. Sounds like he's a little uncertain about that knee.
Q: How has this recovery process been? Is it more difficult than the previous one?
CHARLES: “No. I’m just happy with where I’m at. It’s different every time, especially after the first. I can’t treat it like I did the first time -- I have to take a different approach.”
Q: Did you think you would be back to ‘full go’ by this point?
CHARLES: “I am ‘full go’ right now. I’m out here, I’m practicing and I can’t be happier about where I’m at.”
Q: How is the knee feeling after practice? Are you in the ‘trust phase’ still?
CHARLES: “No. I work out before practices and do a lot with it. It’s all going to come when it comes. It’s just practice right now and I’m happy to be out here. I could be sitting on the couch watching TV, so like I said, I’m happy to be out here with my teammates.”
Q: Is that the mindset you have to have to trust the process and don’t try to push it too quickly?
CHARLES: “Yes, absolutely. Worrying too much won’t get you anywhere. By stepping with my faith, it will lead me in the right direction. If I worry about my knee being ‘good’, ‘not good’ or if it’ll get better, it won’t help anything. I can’t worry about those types of things. I’ve got to get myself ready mentally and physically.”
Q: Touch on the experience you’ve had going through this before.
CHARLES: “The first time was totally different. The first time I tore it in the second game, and this time I tore it in the fifth game. The doctor told me, ‘When you have an ACL tear, don’t treat it like you did the first one. It’s totally different just like every knee is different.’ I’ve just got to trust myself and where I’m at with it.”
Q: Are you confident with your game speed?
CHARLES: “Yes. When I step on the field, even just at practice, I’m able to work hard and be myself just to show everyone out here that I’m good to go. When we get into games, I’ll do what it takes to get ready, but I won’t do it to that extent. Before our own practices, I try to do so much and at a high level to get the knee stronger before I come out.”
Q: Would you have preferred to have some sort of preseason action?
CHARLES: “Not really. Every day is different. I just need to trust the process when I step on the field whether it’s preseason or regular season.”
Q: What has you in the best mental place you’ve been in?
CHARLES: “I’ve learned a lot in my life; both in my past and where I’m at now. Being baptized, reading The Bible and understanding the word, I feel like I’ve learned and grown a lot in both my physical and spiritual life. That’s holding me right now. If I didn’t have all of that, I might be losing my mind at this point. I might be thinking, ‘Oh man, why isn’t my knee getting better? There’s people in front of me.’ But [my faith] is holding me. I’m being joyful, thankful and giving thanks in these times. Like I said before, I could be sitting on the couch watching TV.
“In addition, the funny thing with me is, I’m faster than normal people. I’m faster than all of you holding the cameras right now. I’m faster than some of my teammates. You may not see that directly, but I’m faster than some of the guys I’m going up against. I learned that a long time ago from one of my coaches when I was at Texas. My coach said, ‘Jamaal, it’s okay. Even though you have a limp and a bad ankle, you’re still faster than the guys next to you.’ I know I’ve received God-given talent. It’s God’s glory allowing me to come back from two ACL tears. I hope it inspires kids and others going through similar situations. It’s going to make me better.”
Q: What type of player can you be once you return? Can you give 20-25 carries like in years past?
CHARLES: “I’m not sure. I’m ready for whatever the coaches ask. I’m ready, happy, and looking forward to getting on the field. When my time comes, it’s going to come. It’s not on my time, it’s on God’s time.”
Q: How has this recovery process been? Is it more difficult than the previous one?
CHARLES: “No. I’m just happy with where I’m at. It’s different every time, especially after the first. I can’t treat it like I did the first time -- I have to take a different approach.”
Q: Did you think you would be back to ‘full go’ by this point?
CHARLES: “I am ‘full go’ right now. I’m out here, I’m practicing and I can’t be happier about where I’m at.”
Q: How is the knee feeling after practice? Are you in the ‘trust phase’ still?
CHARLES: “No. I work out before practices and do a lot with it. It’s all going to come when it comes. It’s just practice right now and I’m happy to be out here. I could be sitting on the couch watching TV, so like I said, I’m happy to be out here with my teammates.”
Q: Is that the mindset you have to have to trust the process and don’t try to push it too quickly?
CHARLES: “Yes, absolutely. Worrying too much won’t get you anywhere. By stepping with my faith, it will lead me in the right direction. If I worry about my knee being ‘good’, ‘not good’ or if it’ll get better, it won’t help anything. I can’t worry about those types of things. I’ve got to get myself ready mentally and physically.”
Q: Touch on the experience you’ve had going through this before.
CHARLES: “The first time was totally different. The first time I tore it in the second game, and this time I tore it in the fifth game. The doctor told me, ‘When you have an ACL tear, don’t treat it like you did the first one. It’s totally different just like every knee is different.’ I’ve just got to trust myself and where I’m at with it.”
Q: Are you confident with your game speed?
CHARLES: “Yes. When I step on the field, even just at practice, I’m able to work hard and be myself just to show everyone out here that I’m good to go. When we get into games, I’ll do what it takes to get ready, but I won’t do it to that extent. Before our own practices, I try to do so much and at a high level to get the knee stronger before I come out.”
Q: Would you have preferred to have some sort of preseason action?
CHARLES: “Not really. Every day is different. I just need to trust the process when I step on the field whether it’s preseason or regular season.”
Q: What has you in the best mental place you’ve been in?
CHARLES: “I’ve learned a lot in my life; both in my past and where I’m at now. Being baptized, reading The Bible and understanding the word, I feel like I’ve learned and grown a lot in both my physical and spiritual life. That’s holding me right now. If I didn’t have all of that, I might be losing my mind at this point. I might be thinking, ‘Oh man, why isn’t my knee getting better? There’s people in front of me.’ But [my faith] is holding me. I’m being joyful, thankful and giving thanks in these times. Like I said before, I could be sitting on the couch watching TV.
“In addition, the funny thing with me is, I’m faster than normal people. I’m faster than all of you holding the cameras right now. I’m faster than some of my teammates. You may not see that directly, but I’m faster than some of the guys I’m going up against. I learned that a long time ago from one of my coaches when I was at Texas. My coach said, ‘Jamaal, it’s okay. Even though you have a limp and a bad ankle, you’re still faster than the guys next to you.’ I know I’ve received God-given talent. It’s God’s glory allowing me to come back from two ACL tears. I hope it inspires kids and others going through similar situations. It’s going to make me better.”
Q: What type of player can you be once you return? Can you give 20-25 carries like in years past?
CHARLES: “I’m not sure. I’m ready for whatever the coaches ask. I’m ready, happy, and looking forward to getting on the field. When my time comes, it’s going to come. It’s not on my time, it’s on God’s time.”
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think if you have both things are gonna be fine and maybe even better. Reid is always calling the shots plus I believe Childress is in as OC now. If Charles becomes the Charles we know & love by game 4 or so then he will be his old valuable self down the stretch, when it counts. This may be hopeful thinking for those who already have him rostered but hey be positive.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree that in 4 or 5 weeks, we should see Charles back to the 15 touches a game we expected. My bigger concern is that I think Ware is the GL back all year.
Buzzbait
Footballguy
As others mentioned this news casts a lot of doubt on Charles. If both Charles and Bell were available to me I was leaning Charles but I think this flips me the other way. Both are coming off knee injuries but Bell's only 24. Of course there's Bell's 3 game suspension but that isn't looking like enough to keep me away vs Charles with this news.
I get the feeling that Charles is ready to go for game day. If he needed to carry 20 times right now, he could do it. He's being a team player and keeping a positive and realistic mentality about the knee. Nothing he said has me worried about his readiness.
It may be a timeshare this year with him and ware. I would compare it to McCoy and karlos Williams last year. Both were valuable as starters. Like Saintsdome said, if you own both you are in good shape
It may be a timeshare this year with him and ware. I would compare it to McCoy and karlos Williams last year. Both were valuable as starters. Like Saintsdome said, if you own both you are in good shape
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
Charles has never relied on heavy volume to be a high end RB1. In 2014 he finished 7th overall in points and averaged 14.4 ppg on 16.4 touches per game. Last year he was at 16.8 ppg on 18.4 touches. Its pretty safe to assume .88-.90 points per touch in non ppr for Charles. Its not like the Chiefs are just swiming in talent on offense that they let a guy like Charles sit on the bench. My guess is he gets 13-15 touches the first couple weeks and it works back up to the 15-18 range after that. So his low end is 12.3 ppg which is still good for RB1 numbers. We all know his upside is 20+ ppg with a heavy work load like 2013.
I hope Charles continues to slide as I like getting RB1's with high upside in the second.
I hope Charles continues to slide as I like getting RB1's with high upside in the second.
Chaka
Footballguy
Just clarifying to make sure I am not missing something is that pick 15-20 or is he the 15th-20th RB off the board.
I presume the former because according to MFL (12 team, redraft, real drafts, non-ppr, players selected in at least 10% of all drafts, from 8/25 and later) he is going as the 8th RB off the board, which falls in that 15th-20th overall pick range.
I imagine his stock will be falling some this week but it's hard to see him dropping out of the top 12 RBs by Saturday.
Yea, pick 15-20. After this news I drop him a few spots into the 3rd round. I would now take Lacy, Freeman, McCoy over him in PPR leagues. Probably still gamble on him in the early third.... too much upside. The dude had 1700 yards after his last ACL, he lost two years so his legs are fresher than other older RBs, and he has historically needed low efficiency to be productive. Absolutely worth the gamble in the 3rd.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Averaging 200 touches/year for eight years, not including all the blocks he made and hits he took without the ball and practice reps, is plenty for a 29 year old coming off his second ACL tear.
Sometimes you gotta zig when others zag. I think Reed in the 4th is foolish given his PPG rivals Gronk when he plays. You still get points from other players during the games he's out but he's winning the weekly matchups for you when he plays. Charles is the one injured guy this year that I think can rebound but everyone has an opinion. I could certainly get burned hard. But the name of the game is upside. You don't win your league by making 20 safe picks.
I agree about the upside. But he's going in the second round. That's a little earlier than I like to gamble. You're right about not making 20 safe picks. But I tend to go fairly safe with my first three. Blowing one of those can cost you big time. Like I said, I would grab him in a heartbeat in the third or fourth. But at his ADP, I don't think he's worth it. Not at his age and condition.
xenith
Footballguy
if you have charles, i say grab him 7th or you'll miss him. standalone i wouldn't reach before then imo. his time with the 1st team will be short barring a recurrence of injury.
sincerely,
chiefs fan
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Liking my plan of hoarding backup RB's on good rushing offenses. C. Michael, Alfred Morris, Ware.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
I landed him in the 16th round of 16 on Sunday. I love local leagues. Amongst a KCC fan's draft I could see him going in the 7th but I would stay away at that price.
Chaka
Footballguy
How many RBs went before him? Seems like a decent value at the time but I am guessing that his stock is dropping a little with the recent news about him not practicing fully with the ones. The encouraging news that he is at least on course to play in week one is that they haven't put him on the PUP.
Teef
Footballguy
grateful zed
Footballguy
kc should be making a playoff run this year. how nice would it be to have a healthy jamal charles in the playoffs.
i see ware as a capable rb, out snapping jc for most of the regular season.
i see ware as a capable rb, out snapping jc for most of the regular season.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
I'd recommend handcuff Spencer Where if you draft Charles this year
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
I think he is going to need to be more than just capable to out snap one of the best RB's in the league. Having Charles late in the season means nothing if you don't win enough early to get there.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I took Ware in the 8 round tonight (my 4th RB in a row, after taking WRs in round 1-4). I don't trust that Charles will be himself again.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Everyone wants these backup RB's. I get it. But most can't pass up drafting scrub WR5's or split backfield RB's on bad offenses in the rounds I pick these guys up. I got all 3. I value them differently than most.Teef said:
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Borden
Footballguy
Missed the draft (work) and got stuck with an all risk team via auto draft, expect the last pick. Charles, no Ware is the start. So LETS GO JC!
Rest of the team...
Rest of the team...
Brees, Julio, Maclin, Parker, Charles, Deon Lewis, Rawls, Barnidge, Steve Smith, Perriman, Vance McDonald, Stills, T. West, Garçon, Rob Kelley
abbottjamesr
Footballguy
I ended up with Ware and no Charles in my main local league after all that talk about how great Charles is. Hope you guys are right on him.
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