Jamal Lewis . . . HOF Prospects? (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

I was not stating he should be in but he should be a barometer of which others should have to exceed

No doubt about that. But some of your statements about setting the bar threw me off, since it seemed you were saying he (and others at other positions) were setting new minimum statistical standards, and I don't agree that there is a minimum, since there are so many other factors involved.

I think we want more stats and intangibles to be involved but it is and it isn't. There simply aren't going to be many players that are top 10 all time that wouldn't have "the other things" that we covet. Naturally, a player doesn't just walk into top 10 stats and if a team has a top QB, RB etc they're generally going to win. Just to reiterate-At the moment pretend you didn't see(and don't recall) all the guys above Freddie T and Warrick Dunn. What greats do you remember? Look above those two, those are "the RBs" in NFL History. They rock.We can discuss wins, average YPC or all sorts of things but they are going to be there regardless. Once it hits a super elite point, I think there's alot of similarities and those similarities are why we can never truly ever end any of the best ever debates. make sense?

The first paragraph makes some sense. It is often, but not always, true that top x numbers will be accompanied with other accomplishments.However, in this thread, you cited some people like Bledsoe, Taylor, Dunn, and Jimmy Smith who managed to achieve some significant numbers without such other accomplishments. IMO it is very clear that none of those players are HOFers. So I'm not even sure what your position is here.And beyond the first paragraph did not make any sense.

 

[Bri]

However, in this thread, you cited some people like Bledsoe, Taylor, Dunn, and Jimmy Smith who managed to achieve some significant numbers without such other accomplishments. IMO it is very clear that none of those players are HOFers. So I'm not even sure what your position is here.

that if the general sentiment is that they aren't HOFers but yet most will concede stat wise they probably are, then at that point, we have a new barometer set. Future HOFers have to perform better than those aforementioned players to make it. The bar's been raised.Along that thinking, Jamal has to surpass Freddie T and Warrick Dunn to make it. He's not there yet but he's on his way.

 

[msommer]

I would hope not, Hall of the very good with one 2000 yard season to his credit

 

[Bri]

To the other point about other traits other than stats that we try and gauge

Here's those above freddy T

1. Emmitt Smith 18,355 1990-2004 2TM

2. Walter Payton+ 16,726 1975-1987 chi

3. Barry Sanders+ 15,269 1989-1998 det

4. Curtis Martin 14,101 1995-2005 2TM

5. Jerome Bettis 13,662 1993-2005 2TM

6. Eric Dickerson+ 13,259 1983-1993 4TM

7. Tony Dorsett+ 12,739 1977-1988 2TM

8. Jim Brown+ 12,312 1957-1965 cle

9. Marshall Faulk 12,279 1994-2005 2TM

10. Marcus Allen+ 12,243 1982-1997 2TM

11. Franco Harris+ 12,120 1972-1984 2TM

12. Thurman Thomas+ 12,074 1988-2000 2TM

13. Edgerrin James (30) 12,002 1999-2008 2TM

14. LaDainian Tomlinson (29) 11,574 2001-2008 sdg

15. John Riggins+ 11,352 1971-1985 2TM

everyone is great. everyone on the list has a ton of redeeming qualities you look for in a RB.

I'm saying it's almost a waste of time to discuss the other traits with QBs, RBs, WRs etc once they hit a point stat-wise. They couldn't hit it if they didn't have all the qualities we look for. Those other traits are common amongst everyone on the list.

 

[Despyzer]

I'm saying it's almost a waste of time to discuss the other traits with QBs, RBs, WRs etc once they hit a point stat-wise.

Of these three positions, only RBs have "the" stat - career rushing yards. What's more important with a WR - yards or receptions? What's more important for a QB - passing yards, TDs, TD/Int ratio, YPA?Even with RBs, "the" stat doesn't really make any concrete arguments. Emmitt Smith owns the all-time record in career yardage, but the only people who would even bother arguing that he was the best back in history are die-hard Cowboy fans and those too young to know any better.

 

[Bri]

I'm saying it's almost a waste of time to discuss the other traits with QBs, RBs, WRs etc once they hit a point stat-wise.

Of these three positions, only RBs have "the" stat - career rushing yards. What's more important with a WR - yards or receptions? What's more important for a QB - passing yards, TDs, TD/Int ratio, YPA?Even with RBs, "the" stat doesn't really make any concrete arguments. Emmitt Smith owns the all-time record in career yardage, but the only people who would even bother arguing that he was the best back in history are die-hard Cowboy fans and those too young to know any better.

this is a hypothesis I just thought of while discussing things with JWB and thinking how there's been so many over the years. I haven't thought it thru or anything, it's fairly new. There is an awful lot in common with the great ones though. (it's not new, just well something I think we all knew all too well but never discussed)

Receptions doesn't do it for me. Too many "eh"guys and not the super-elite that we've been discussing.

I'm fine with anyone above Fryar being in the HOF or considerred great or whatnot

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/lead..._yds_career.htm

Ellard might be a prob with some but the guy was 5-11 or 5-10 so 13k is pretty great considerring. Nonetheless, you've got great route runners, awesome hands and all sorts of qualities you covet in WRs-that's what they all have in common.

back to RB, I'm not saying the stat proves who is better(re-Emmitt above) but when they pass a point statistically, they're in the hall.

Sometimes people think HOF=best ever at a position. That's too extreme. Barry didn't make it in and bounce Gale Sayers out. Sweetness didn't knock Jim Brown out of the HOF. They're all in. The HOF is best of an era not best all time. A player only has to aspire to be as good as Sweetness, not to be better than him.

To give an example, for me, if Jamal runs for as many yards as Jim Brown(and not by making it ten years from now but in a reasonable amount of time) he is a lock. Asking him to better Jim Brown's stats is too much. If Jim Brown isn't a fair barometer what is?

 

[switz]

Except for one season, he has always been overshadowed by better backs. There have been players who have gone in even though they weren't really thought of as the best at their position, but I don't think Jamal Lewis has the kind of glamor that will carry a vote. The suspension for drug trafficking probably won't help his chances.

But how many RBs have rushed for 2,000 yards in a season?

 

[switz]

Emmitt Smith owns the all-time record in career yardage, but the only people who would even bother arguing that he was the best back in history are die-hard Cowboy fans and those too young to know any better.

Off topic (to carry out this tangent any further) but

 

[Ron_Mexico]

NN-NE

 

[Despyzer]

But how many RBs have rushed for 2,000 yards in a season?

Does passing this single-season mark equate to being Hall-worthy for you? I'm not so sure it does for me.

 

[switz]

But how many RBs have rushed for 2,000 yards in a season?

Does passing this single-season mark equate to being Hall-worthy for you? I'm not so sure it does for me.

Not by itself, no. And I'm not saying Jamal is a lock for HOF. But I do think he'll get in eventually. He's had a good career, despite the injuries. He's won a SuperBowl, and it could be argued he carried his team there. The HOF is about more than career stats.

 

[slayer666]

Definitely not a Hall of Famer - and not even sure that Jamal Lewis belongs in the Hall of the Very Good.

 

[Ghost Rider]

But how many RBs have rushed for 2,000 yards in a season?

Does passing this single-season mark equate to being Hall-worthy for you? I'm not so sure it does for me.

Not by itself, no. And I'm not saying Jamal is a lock for HOF. But I do think he'll get in eventually. He's had a good career, despite the injuries. He's won a SuperBowl, and it could be argued he carried his team there. The HOF is about more than career stats.

Oh, please. Anyone who would argue that Lewis carried the Ravens to that Super Bowl, as opposed to their defense, is, simply put, not very bright.

 

[Bri]

But how many RBs have rushed for 2,000 yards in a season?

Does passing this single-season mark equate to being Hall-worthy for you? I'm not so sure it does for me.

Not by itself, no. And I'm not saying Jamal is a lock for HOF. But I do think he'll get in eventually. He's had a good career, despite the injuries. He's won a SuperBowl, and it could be argued he carried his team there. The HOF is about more than career stats.

Oh, please. Anyone who would argue that Lewis carried the Ravens to that Super Bowl, as opposed to their defense, is, simply put, not very bright.

offensively, it's a fair statement

 

[Bri]

But how many RBs have rushed for 2,000 yards in a season?

Does passing this single-season mark equate to being Hall-worthy for you? I'm not so sure it does for me.

Not by itself, no. And I'm not saying Jamal is a lock for HOF. But I do think he'll get in eventually. He's had a good career, despite the injuries. He's won a SuperBowl, and it could be argued he carried his team there. The HOF is about more than career stats.

Oh, please. Anyone who would argue that Lewis carried the Ravens to that Super Bowl, as opposed to their defense, is, simply put, not very bright.

offensively, it's a fair statement

Then it should be added to statement when originally made. And then you should fully expect a retort of "the defense carried the offense".

it's not I.awful lot of nitpicking when someone makes a statement that a RB carried a team. Ghost already made the same point as you, at this point it just be nitpicky and repetetive. No one would ever think a RB carried a defense so again, the point was already made.

One year, Matt Stover-it could be argued- was MVP and "carried the team" by winning a very surprising high number of games and being their high scorer in others. If I'm not mistaken he was their leading scorer 8 weeks of the season and scored all their points 6 times/weeks. It might be an interesting alternative for debate rather than being nitpicky.