JaMarcus Russell (1 Viewer)

[Atomic Punk]

Assuming the Raiders pick Johnson, the Lions take Quinn and the Browns take Thomas, how far can you see Russell falling? With the question marks around his effort, weight, intelligence (other?) I don't see any reason why he won't fall into the teens.

Thoughts?

 

[Blackjacks]

Assuming the Raiders pick Johnson, the Lions take Quinn and the Browns take Thomas, how far can you see Russell falling? With the question marks around his effort, weight, intelligence (other?) I don't see any reason why he won't fall into the teens.Thoughts?

I don't think he would get past Minnesota

 

[wannabee]

Assuming the Raiders pick Johnson, the Lions take Quinn and the Browns take Thomas, how far can you see Russell falling? With the question marks around his effort, weight, intelligence (other?) I don't see any reason why he won't fall into the teens.Thoughts?

I don't think he would get past Minnesota

I agree with this.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.

Just my opinion.

If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

 

[Biabreakable]

Even if the Vikings are sold on Jackson I think they still take Russell if he falls to them @ 7. Open compitition at Qb and may the best man win. The other will be a solid backup and trade bait later.

It worked for SD to take 2 Qbs why not Minnesota?

Childress has said Qb is THE most important position. Based off of that I do not see him passing up on Russell as the BPA regardless of how much he believes in Jackson.

 

[Blackjacks]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.Just my opinion.If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

 

[Atomic Punk]

Minny and Miami were my first two thoughts as well.

I'm torn on the possibility of Russell going to the Vikings due to their apparent love for Jackson and their many needs elsewhere.

Miami OTOH has their name mentioned with every QB out there - Trent Green, David Carr, etc. - and they still have C-Pep and Cleo Lemon.

Any consideration that Jacksonville or KC move up into the early teens to try and get him if he starts to slide. Russell's apparent lack of conviction could legitimately cause many front offices to go elsewhere on draft day and realy make Russell slide.

 

[Bob Magaw]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.Just my opinion.If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

i'm not sure if i call jackson a short passer... his arm may not be as good as russell, but you could say that about pretty much 100% of active QBs... even if he did look terrible as a rookie, so did guys like elway & aikman... if we had gone by their rookie years, they might have appeared to have no future in the NFL, either... imo it is way too early to pass judgement on him... now if he looks terrible this season, with no signs of improvement, then i will be a bit more worried, but really hard to draw conclusions from his EXTREMELY limited pro body of work thus far

 

[Couch Potato]

I think both QBs are gone by Washington's pick. Not that WAS will take one of them, but I think there are teams willing to trade down and teams willing to trade up so that both will be drafted in the first six picks.

 

[Hawkeyeskin]

I think both QBs are gone by Washington's pick. Not that WAS will take one of them, but I think there are teams willing to trade down and teams willing to trade up so that both will be drafted in the first six picks.

Bruce!

 

[gzilla]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.Just my opinion.If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

I agree with this. I'm having trouble seeing the comparison.I'm not sure Jamarcus will get past 3.

 

[TommyKramer]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.

Just my opinion.

If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

Ummm, I thought that T. Jax was known for having a cannon for an arm?

 

[Blackjacks]

Minny and Miami were my first two thoughts as well.I'm torn on the possibility of Russell going to the Vikings due to their apparent love for Jackson and their many needs elsewhere.Miami OTOH has their name mentioned with every QB out there - Trent Green, David Carr, etc. - and they still have C-Pep and Cleo Lemon.Any consideration that Jacksonville or KC move up into the early teens to try and get him if he starts to slide. Russell's apparent lack of conviction could legitimately cause many front offices to go elsewhere on draft day and realy make Russell slide.

You could put Carolina in that mix to

 

[Blackjacks]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.

Just my opinion.

If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

Ummm, I thought that T. Jax was known for having a cannon for an arm?

When comparing Russell and Jackson's arm strength it isn't close. I saw Jackson play in 2 preseason games, which I enjoyed him, and then 2 regular games during the season. In that time I never saw him throw a pass over 20 yards. Just my opinion.

 

[Blackjacks]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.Just my opinion.If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

i'm not sure if i call jackson a short passer... his arm may not be as good as russell, but you could say that about pretty much 100% of active QBs... even if he did look terrible as a rookie, so did guys like elway & aikman... if we had gone by their rookie years, they might have appeared to have no future in the NFL, either... imo it is way too early to pass judgement on him... now if he looks terrible this season, with no signs of improvement, then i will be a bit more worried, but really hard to draw conclusions from his EXTREMELY limited pro body of work thus far

I didn't mean to go off on Tavarius. My post was suppose to be about comparing these 2 young qb's. Do you see any comparisions?

 

[TommyKramer]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.

Just my opinion.

If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

Ummm, I thought that T. Jax was known for having a cannon for an arm?

When comparing Russell and Jackson's arm strength it isn't close. I saw Jackson play in 2 preseason games, which I enjoyed him, and then 2 regular games during the season. In that time I never saw him throw a pass over 20 yards. Just my opinion.

Fair enough. Let me just quickly point out 2 things:1.) Don't let Childress' conservative play calling influence your opinion of T. Jax's arm strength.

2.) No one has J. Russell's arm. That doesn't make T.Jax's arm just good, not great.

 

[Bob Magaw]

As much as I hate to say it, I think the Vikings are prepared to go with Tarvaris. I don't in any way see them as interested in Russell as the two have essentially the same game.Just my opinion.If he were to get by Miami, there's no telling where he would land.

Andy I couldn't disagree with you more. What part of Tavarius' game reminds you of Russell except the fact they are both black? Russell is a true pocket passer with a laser of an arm. He rarely runs and throws a great deep ball. Tavarius is a scrambler who can do things with his legs, more of a Michael Vick comparision. Tavarius is much more of a short passer with a good but not great arm. I don't think Jackson will ever be a good qb in the NFL.I liked what I saw in preseason but thought he looked horrible in real game time. I know he was just a rookie but he looked that bad to me. In my opinion if Russell is there Minn. would be silly to pass him up. I know you know your Vikings good so I'm not saying they won't pass on him I was just stating the fact that I see NO comparisons between the 2 of them.

i'm not sure if i call jackson a short passer... his arm may not be as good as russell, but you could say that about pretty much 100% of active QBs... even if he did look terrible as a rookie, so did guys like elway & aikman... if we had gone by their rookie years, they might have appeared to have no future in the NFL, either... imo it is way too early to pass judgement on him... now if he looks terrible this season, with no signs of improvement, then i will be a bit more worried, but really hard to draw conclusions from his EXTREMELY limited pro body of work thus far

I didn't mean to go off on Tavarius. My post was suppose to be about comparing these 2 young qb's. Do you see any comparisions?

they are dissimilar in pedigree... nobody ever talked up jackson as a potential #1 overall pick... if anything, many viewed him as a reach in late second...as similarities i'd say that they can both throw with touch (as well as put mustard on it)... also, they can both throw effortlessly & with accuracy on the move (i agree that jackson is more of a scrambler & "vick"-like than russell in that respect, though i think he has the potential to be a more natural passer ((than vick)))...corey chavous in the NFL network draft coverage noted that scouts were very impressed with his ability to hit WRs out of their breaks (which almost requires innate timing... either you have it or you don't)... i think he said he was among the best at the combine in the passing drills by that measure... i don't recall if a specific comparison was made with the elite QB prospects from class of 06 (ie - VY, leinart & curler)...i guarantee you he can throw the ball downfield more than 20 yards... in two ways...1 - i saw him do it in aforementioned drills2 - if i could throw a football 30 yards+ reclined in a lawn chair, i'm pretty sure jackson can do better than that in normal game situations... * i don't want to put too fine a point on this... i can see somebody finding more differences than similarities between russell & jackson... i just thought you were being a little down on jackson... all i can speak to is what you say, & on some of that... seemingly writing him off after a few starts... arm strength observations... i don't agree... don't get me wrong, conversely, i'm hardly calling a babe ruth shot that he is guaranteed super star, for same reason it is too early to write him off (we haven't seen enough yet, & this is to be expected)... historically, nearly all QBs don't show a lot in year 1 (let alone a small fraction of a season)...there are some things to like about him... childress traded up in end of round two to get him (clearly they were concerned he would get snared early or in mid-third, before they had another pick), after just coming from PHI... he brought in the same QB coach who tutored mcnabb in syracuse, so it is safe to say he sees a little bit of mcnabb in him...i think former TB & WAS great doug williams was talking about him & said somebody was going to get a steal... i don't have quote/link, but i think he said something like he was an amalgam of all the best traits & attributes of the top QBs... as fast or faster than VY, stronger arm than cutler & as accurate as leinart... also, leading up to draft, i think phil simms had thrown something similar out, that after extensive film review, in his opinion jackson was underrated & had a chance to be very pleasant surprise (sorry, again no link & reconstructed from memory)...

 

[Donnybrook]

Assuming the Raiders pick Johnson, the Lions take Quinn and the Browns take Thomas, how far can you see Russell falling? With the question marks around his effort, weight, intelligence (other?) I don't see any reason why he won't fall into the teens.Thoughts?

I will not assume this. People have suggested that Savage Russell.

 

[Bob Magaw]

exactly...

if thomas & russell are both there, i can't see russell getting past 3...

its very possible that the way draft is shaking out, CJ, russell & quinn are off the board by third pick... with distict possibility of at least one trade...

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I knew I shouldn't have posted that and then run away.

I meant that from a VIKINGS standpoint I think they view both as having roughly the same tools.

Those of you that categorize Tarvaris as a scrambling QB apparently haven't watched him much. He's not as physically imposing as Russell, to be sure, but he does have a very powerful arm and would rather throw from the pocket than on the run. The fact that Childress wouldn't let him uncork the arm last year makes it hard to get a read on him.

Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather have Russell than Jackson. But Childress thinks he can make anyone successful and I believe he intends to prove that with Tarvaris.

 

[Couch Potato]

Hey Blackjacks - what's all this talk about Tavarius? I didn't know he was a Roman. Been watching a little too much HBO?

It's Tarvaris.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I think both QBs are gone by Washington's pick. Not that WAS will take one of them, but I think there are teams willing to trade down and teams willing to trade up so that both will be drafted in the first six picks.

I would even say top 5, maybe top 3.Both are true franchise QBs.

 

[The Jacket]

Absolute worst is #3 to Cleveland.

In fact, I'll say #4, just in case Oakland goes CJ, Detroit Quinn and Cleveland Thomas (not that I think that'll happen).

No way in hell Tampa takes any other player over Russell. Adams, Okoye, who? No chance.

 

[pinda]

There's intelligence issues with Russell???? Or is this just another black QB hater thread?

He seemed very intelligent in his interview on NFLN after his workout. He was very well-spoken.

 

[massraider]

There's intelligence issues with Russell???? Or is this just another black QB hater thread?

Have you ever heard a of black QB coming out of college as smart? Or having a feel for the game? How about 'scrappy'? I don't hear that one as a tag too often for a black QB.

 

[Blackjacks]

Hey Blackjacks - what's all this talk about Tavarius? I didn't know he was a Roman. Been watching a little too much HBO? It's Tarvaris.

My bad. I saw that afterwards but too lazy to fix it

 

[Andy Dufresne]

There's intelligence issues with Russell???? Or is this just another black QB hater thread?

Have you ever heard a of black QB coming out of college as smart? Or having a feel for the game? How about 'scrappy'? I don't hear that one as a tag too often for a black QB.

We're treading on thin ice here, fellas. Let's be careful.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

There's intelligence issues with Russell???? Or is this just another black QB hater thread?

Have you ever heard a of black QB coming out of college as smart? Or having a feel for the game? How about 'scrappy'? I don't hear that one as a tag too often for a black QB.

This thread is sure to spiral down the drainnow that the race card has been introduced.

 

[pinda]

There's intelligence issues with Russell???? Or is this just another black QB hater thread?

Have you ever heard a of black QB coming out of college as smart? Or having a feel for the game? How about 'scrappy'? I don't hear that one as a tag too often for a black QB.

ok now i see where you guys are coming from, sure glad that there's substance and credibility behind your assumptions.

 

[massraider]

There's intelligence issues with Russell???? Or is this just another black QB hater thread?

Have you ever heard a of black QB coming out of college as smart? Or having a feel for the game? How about 'scrappy'? I don't hear that one as a tag too often for a black QB.

ok now i see where you guys are coming from, sure glad that there's substance and credibility behind your assumptions.

People won't admit it, but these same tags get applied to black QB's every year.I'm serious, I can't ever remember a black QB coming out of college, where we heard 'student of the game' or any of that.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm serious, I can't ever remember a black QB coming out of college, where we heard 'student of the game' or any of that.

Who would you have applied that label to?I would say both Byron Leftwich and Donovan McNabb would fall under those categories.When was the last time you heard a white QB described as "extraordinarily athletically talented"?

 

[massraider]

I'm serious, I can't ever remember a black QB coming out of college, where we heard 'student of the game' or any of that.

Who would you have applied that label to?

I wouldn't have applied that label to anyone. I didn't know any QB's personal habits. And frankly, neither do most of these draft experts.

When was the last time you heard a white QB described as "extraordinarily athletically talented"?

That doesn't fly. A lot of white QB's have been described as good, or great athletes. And even if I agreed with you, it would simply reinforce my point, regarding racial stereotypes. I just have a sneaking suspicion that the work ethic/intelligence/decision-making thing is getting blown way, way out of proportion with Russell. And I think the reason for that, mainly, is because you've got to find negatives with any player, and with Russell, you have to go the intangible route, because on the field, he can do whatever you want. I think some view Russell, incorrectly, as a guy who came out of nowhere, and is a top 3 pick because of one game. There's a little resentment, and a backlash to the hype. If you look at this guy's numbers from freshman to junior year, his improvement each year from the previous year is remarkable. I haven't heard of any LSU coach, or anyone associated with this kid, say anything bad about him being lazy. I've heard Chris Landry say it. That's it, outside of vague stuff on draftnik sites.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm serious, I can't ever remember a black QB coming out of college, where we heard 'student of the game' or any of that.

Who would you have applied that label to?

I wouldn't have applied that label to anyone. I didn't know any QB's personal habits. And frankly, neither do most of these draft experts.

When was the last time you heard a white QB described as "extraordinarily athletically talented"?

That doesn't fly. A lot of white QB's have been described as good, or great athletes. And even if I agreed with you, it would simply reinforce my point, regarding racial stereotypes. I just have a sneaking suspicion that the work ethic/intelligence/decision-making thing is getting blown way, way out of proportion with Russell. And I think the reason for that, mainly, is because you've got to find negatives with any player, and with Russell, you have to go the intangible route, because on the field, he can do whatever you want. I think some view Russell, incorrectly, as a guy who came out of nowhere, and is a top 3 pick because of one game. There's a little resentment, and a backlash to the hype. If you look at this guy's numbers from freshman to junior year, his improvement each year from the previous year is remarkable. I haven't heard of any LSU coach, or anyone associated with this kid, say anything bad about him being lazy. I've heard Chris Landry say it. That's it, outside of vague stuff on draftnik sites.

I personally haven't read anywhere where his intelligence was called into question.If it has, I know not whether those questions are legit. Seems like a pretty bright guy to me.

 

[Atomic Punk]

Let's put the race issue to bed. Intelligence was a bad choice of words ... unseasoned, unpolished, impatient under pressure. I will also always question a man's intelligence when he shows up for the most important day of his career overweight and unprepared.

He is an incredible talent, there is no doubt. I just think his approach to the combine may raise a few question marks in some people's minds and make them invest their precious early picks in someone that is more NFL ready and shows a little more to those who will be investing millions in him.

Although his talent his tempting, any GM would have to be concerned about drafting a guy who has only started for two years ... especially if you are looking for immediate help at a given position.

 

[Atomic Punk]

Absolute worst is #3 to Cleveland.In fact, I'll say #4, just in case Oakland goes CJ, Detroit Quinn and Cleveland Thomas (not that I think that'll happen).No way in hell Tampa takes any other player over Russell. Adams, Okoye, who? No chance.

I was debating TB too, but with Simms, Gardowski, Garcia and possibly Plummer in the mix, I couldn't see them pulling the trigger when they have so many needs on an aging defense.

 

[massraider]

The combine wasn't the most important day of his career. He wasn't going to work out, and knew he wasn't going to work out.

His Pro Day was the most important day of his career. That was the day he showed up less than his college weight, and threw the lights out.

 

[Mister CIA]

I wish I could find some Tarvaris video links. I recall watching the clips on TV last year during the draft thinking he had a laser of an arm.

I hate to say it, especially within the context of this thread, but I thought he looked like a right-handed version of Michael Vick, strictly as a passer. The ball trajectory seemed to look the same.

And my crazy mind thinks Vick will evolve into a 4000-yard passer.

 

[Couch Potato]

I think both QBs are gone by Washington's pick. Not that WAS will take one of them, but I think there are teams willing to trade down and teams willing to trade up so that both will be drafted in the first six picks.

I would even say top 5, maybe top 3.Both are true franchise QBs.

Redskins and Bears are talking about a deal that would have Briggs go to WAS and the teams swap #31 for #6.Would the Bears be moving up to snag a QB? Hmmm... no guarantee one would be there though.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

When was the last time you heard a white QB described as "extraordinarily athletically talented"?

Jared Zabransky, anyone?

 

[Couch Potato]

When was the last time you heard a white QB described as "extraordinarily athletically talented"?

Jared Zabransky, anyone?

That would have to be another Jared... Lorenzen. Extraordinarily

Athletically

Talented

The Round Mound of Touchdown. The Pillsbury Throwboy. Hefty Lefty. BBQ (Big Beautiful Quarterback). Quarter(got)back. Lunchbox. The Fat ### with the Cannon Blast.

That guy.

 

[Couch Potato]

When was the last time you heard a white QB described as "extraordinarily athletically talented"?

Jared Zabransky, anyone?

That would have to be another Jared... Lorenzen. Extraordinarily

Athletically

Talented

The Round Mound of Touchdown. The Pillsbury Throwboy. Hefty Lefty. BBQ (Big Beautiful Quarterback). Quarter(got)back. Lunchbox. The Fat ### with the Cannon Blast.

That guy.