Jared Allen (1 Viewer)

[tdmills]

I think it's fairly clear that Allen's shoulder comes right up into Louis' neck/chin area. If some of you refuse to see that, I can't help you.

It's absurd to say that it even looks like shoulder to shoulder, much less that it's "purely" shoulder to shoulder. Allen's R upper arm hits Louis in the R shoulder pad and the plate of Allen's pad goes square to the bottom of the facemask. It's unequivocally a leap to hit the head.

Wow, it's like we are not watching the same thing. I don't see either player's helmets snap from impact and Louis' shoulder pad is on the side of Allen's helmet, which means Allen's shoulder pad can't be making contact with Louis' helmet either. Anyway we will have to disagree.

I'd bold the part I find funny, but the whole thing is. Why would Allen's helmet snap back from hitting a player in the helmet with his shoulder pad?

My point was that neither players helmet snaps back due to any impact. If there is no contact with Allen's helmet (which you just admitted there is not) then the only way the hit can be illegal is if Allen hit Louis in the helmet/neck area. Louis' helmet never snaps back so your theory of Allen's shoulderpad going square to the facemask is pretty thin. Plus the way they are lined up Allen's shoulder pads would have to be about a foot wider than Louis' in order to catch helmet. Too bad there isn't a better view so we could get a definitive look.

If Louis' head/neck area wasn't hit, then why does it move to the left when his back is moving backwards? His head doesn't snap back, it goes to the left(one of the hardest ways for a persons neck/head to move).The hit may have started at Upper shoulder/chest but moved into neck/head. It's illegal. How many times have we seen a defenseless receiver get hit in the upper chest and then the head gets hit = penalty/fine

 

[Statcruncher]

I honestly don't see his head going left.

Without Allen leading with the head or hitting the helmet/neck area (which IMO he did not) it's a legal hit. We will have to wait for the official opinion from the NFL on if they think the helmet/neck area was contacted. With the play being so brutal and Louis being done for the year it's possible they fine Allen whether or not they deem it illegal. I'm seriously looking forward to the NFL's ruling on this as I think it's a case where the outrage may force a fine even though the play may not warrant it.

 

[Biabreakable]

It was not a blindside block. #60 is running right at #69 when the block happens. It is not #69 fault that #60 is looking off to his left.

It was not a block to the head. It was shoulder to shoulder.

This division is called the black and blue for a reason. The sissy groaning of Bears fan's is embarrassing.

 

[DoubleG]

I honestly don't see his head going left.

Without Allen leading with the head or hitting the helmet/neck area (which IMO he did not) it's a legal hit. We will have to wait for the official opinion from the NFL on if they think the helmet/neck area was contacted. With the play being so brutal and Louis being done for the year it's possible they fine Allen whether or not they deem it illegal. I'm seriously looking forward to the NFL's ruling on this as I think it's a case where the outrage may force a fine even though the play may not warrant it.

No one is debating the bolded - except the "IMO" part. Judging by what Mike Pereira said, and that 75% of those who have viewed the play have voted that he should be fined or fined and suspended, it seems that a fairly clear majority disagree with your opinion that Allen didn't go after the head/neck area. Oh, and I must commend you on the nice job of CYA by stating even if the NFL does fine or suspend you still might be "right".

 

[Da Guru]

Allen is filthy dirty on that play a horrible cheap shot. No respect or regard for a fellow player. This one foul is way worse than anything Suh has ever done. In fact Suh has never injured an opposing NFL player.

 

[packseasontix]

I honestly don't see his head going left.

Without Allen leading with the head or hitting the helmet/neck area (which IMO he did not) it's a legal hit. We will have to wait for the official opinion from the NFL on if they think the helmet/neck area was contacted. With the play being so brutal and Louis being done for the year it's possible they fine Allen whether or not they deem it illegal. I'm seriously looking forward to the NFL's ruling on this as I think it's a case where the outrage may force a fine even though the play may not warrant it.

No one is debating the bolded - except the "IMO" part. Judging by what Mike Pereira said, and that 75% of those who have viewed the play have voted that he should be fined or fined and suspended, it seems that a fairly clear majority disagree with your opinion that Allen didn't go after the head/neck area. Oh, and I must commend you on the nice job of CYA by stating even if the NFL does fine or suspend you still might be "right".

Should you get fined for not doing anything illegal though? Even if he was going after his head?Like if a player went to kick someone in the head but completely missed? Is it a foul because he thought about doing it? or because he actually did it?

 

[DoubleG]

I honestly don't see his head going left.

Without Allen leading with the head or hitting the helmet/neck area (which IMO he did not) it's a legal hit. We will have to wait for the official opinion from the NFL on if they think the helmet/neck area was contacted. With the play being so brutal and Louis being done for the year it's possible they fine Allen whether or not they deem it illegal. I'm seriously looking forward to the NFL's ruling on this as I think it's a case where the outrage may force a fine even though the play may not warrant it.

No one is debating the bolded - except the "IMO" part. Judging by what Mike Pereira said, and that 75% of those who have viewed the play have voted that he should be fined or fined and suspended, it seems that a fairly clear majority disagree with your opinion that Allen didn't go after the head/neck area. Oh, and I must commend you on the nice job of CYA by stating even if the NFL does fine or suspend you still might be "right".

Should you get fined for not doing anything illegal though? Even if he was going after his head?Like if a player went to kick someone in the head but completely missed? Is it a foul because he thought about doing it? or because he actually did it?

But he did go for and make contact (according to 75% of the voters and Mike Periera) with the head/neck area. That's what the debate is about. He actually did it - and intended to do so as evidenced by a 6' 6" guy launching and jumping upward.

 

[Statcruncher]

I think you are misinterpreting your poll which clearly shows 75% of the people think he deserves a fine or worse. The poll does not say anything about whether there was contact to the helmet/neck. If that's what you're trying to prove you need to start a new poll.

 

[Maelstrom]

If Louis isn't injured on the play, we're not even talking about this except to maybe say it was a good block to try and clear the way for the ball carrier. They were both moving sideline to sideline. I think Jared got a bit high, and if he gets fined for a hit to the head, I would be ok with that, but I don't think he intentionally went for the head area, he just laid out a good block and maybe got a bit high. I think talk of suspension is pretty ridiculous, personally.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It actually looks like he was trying to lead with the shoulder, but when you launch yourself like that, and go in at that angle, it is impossible for your helmet to not lead as well. Should be a definite big fine and suspension. Hits like that are exactly what the league is supposedly trying to eliminate, so they need to lay the hammer down.

 

[Statcruncher]

I've made a new topic on this with polls so we can get a better feel for what people are thinking.

 

[mad sweeney]

Your mastery of using the while avoiding actual debate is reaching Christo status.

What debate? We agree on one thing: a different view would help. Other than that, your methodology is flawed and your conclusions are worse. What else is there?

 

[GregR]

What's his disciplinary history?

IIRC he was fined for cheap hits on Rodgers and Schaub, but that may have been long enough ago now they wouldn't contribute towards a punishment escalating.

 

[mad sweeney]

I honestly don't see his head going left.

Without Allen leading with the head or hitting the helmet/neck area (which IMO he did not) it's a legal hit. We will have to wait for the official opinion from the NFL on if they think the helmet/neck area was contacted. With the play being so brutal and Louis being done for the year it's possible they fine Allen whether or not they deem it illegal. I'm seriously looking forward to the NFL's ruling on this as I think it's a case where the outrage may force a fine even though the play may not warrant it.

 

[mad sweeney]

If Louis isn't injured on the play, we're not even talking about this except to maybe say it was a good block to try and clear the way for the ball carrier. They were both moving sideline to sideline. I think Jared got a bit high, and if he gets fined for a hit to the head, I would be ok with that, but I don't think he intentionally went for the head area, he just laid out a good block and maybe got a bit high. I think talk of suspension is pretty ridiculous, personally.

He just jumped up because he was blocking a 7 footer!

 

[Warrior]

Same as Golden Tate vs. Sean LeeSame old head on a swivel comments will apply. Louis shouldn't allow himself to be defenseless.Allen should go lower, no doubt.

Ummm...Golden Tate = 5' 10" - 200 lbs. Jared Allen = 6' 6" - 270 lbs. Slight difference. I get what you're saying about head on a swivel - but there's a difference between a legal but unexpected block and launching at an opponents head.

give. me. a. break.Please, tell me the exact height and weight that is required to make an illegal block legal.Is it ok if you're 6'1" and 220 pounds but not if you're 6'2" and 225 pounds? Clearly, you think it's all about player size.I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Statcruncher]

You guys can vote in a more detailed poll here.

 

[Maelstrom]

If Louis isn't injured on the play, we're not even talking about this except to maybe say it was a good block to try and clear the way for the ball carrier. They were both moving sideline to sideline. I think Jared got a bit high, and if he gets fined for a hit to the head, I would be ok with that, but I don't think he intentionally went for the head area, he just laid out a good block and maybe got a bit high. I think talk of suspension is pretty ridiculous, personally.

He just jumped up because he was blocking a 7 footer!

He jumped to get the momentum necessary to have a successful block. He's giving up quite a bit of mass, he needs momentum on his side to be successful in blocking him. In the absence of leading with the crown/top of his helmet, it is legal to leave your feet to make a block. Where it become grey is that he did slide up into the head/shoulder area (hit shoulder to shoulder first), and so could be fined for that.

 

[mad sweeney]

If Louis isn't injured on the play, we're not even talking about this except to maybe say it was a good block to try and clear the way for the ball carrier. They were both moving sideline to sideline. I think Jared got a bit high, and if he gets fined for a hit to the head, I would be ok with that, but I don't think he intentionally went for the head area, he just laid out a good block and maybe got a bit high. I think talk of suspension is pretty ridiculous, personally.

He just jumped up because he was blocking a 7 footer!

He jumped to get the momentum necessary to have a successful block. He's giving up quite a bit of mass, he needs momentum on his side to be successful in blocking him. In the absence of leading with the crown/top of his helmet, it is legal to leave your feet to make a block. Where it become grey is that he did slide up into the head/shoulder area (hit shoulder to shoulder first), and so could be fined for that.

Their shoulders brushed on the way up, that's about it. At best, the contact starts half an inch below the facemask. At best. Also, as evidenced by the Packers (?) player that got fined or will for hitting Stafford, apparently even if you slide up it still counts as hitting the head. As for needing to jump... give me a break. If that were true then every RB blocking a LB would be jumping on every blitz pickup or lead block. But what do they do? They go low. That's how you block someone bigger than you, you go high to deliver a devastating blow*. Not to "successfully block". * - I have no problem with devastating blows. They're part of football and as I stated earlier (or maybe in the Eagles thread), they're a necessary part of the game. You make a guy worried about getting decleated and he won't go the extra effort next time. This was a cheap shot and hit someone in the head, no part of that in the game.

 

[Maelstrom]

If Louis isn't injured on the play, we're not even talking about this except to maybe say it was a good block to try and clear the way for the ball carrier. They were both moving sideline to sideline. I think Jared got a bit high, and if he gets fined for a hit to the head, I would be ok with that, but I don't think he intentionally went for the head area, he just laid out a good block and maybe got a bit high. I think talk of suspension is pretty ridiculous, personally.

He just jumped up because he was blocking a 7 footer!

He jumped to get the momentum necessary to have a successful block. He's giving up quite a bit of mass, he needs momentum on his side to be successful in blocking him. In the absence of leading with the crown/top of his helmet, it is legal to leave your feet to make a block. Where it become grey is that he did slide up into the head/shoulder area (hit shoulder to shoulder first), and so could be fined for that.

Their shoulders brushed on the way up, that's about it. At best, the contact starts half an inch below the facemask. At best. Also, as evidenced by the Packers (?) player that got fined or will for hitting Stafford, apparently even if you slide up it still counts as hitting the head. As for needing to jump... give me a break. If that were true then every RB blocking a LB would be jumping on every blitz pickup or lead block. But what do they do? They go low. That's how you block someone bigger than you, you go high to deliver a devastating blow*. Not to "successfully block". * - I have no problem with devastating blows. They're part of football and as I stated earlier (or maybe in the Eagles thread), they're a necessary part of the game. You make a guy worried about getting decleated and he won't go the extra effort next time. This was a cheap shot and hit someone in the head, no part of that in the game.

I think he misjudged his hit. Where we differ is that I don't think there was intention to injure or a cheap shot.