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Jeff Francoeur (1 Viewer)

INRIhab

Footballguy
I was looking at his stats over the past couple of seasons and I can't think of a single player who's gone through what he has. I'm sure a comparable player exists, but I either haven't been watching baseball long enough or haven't been following it closely enough to know.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/francje02.shtml

A first-round pick, hometown kid, Top 3 in ROY voting at age 21. Certainly showed a lot of potential.

Followed up the rookie year with 2 great seasons. His HR/AB number dropped but his BB:K ratio and doubles increased by a great amount. His OBP jumped up 40+ points and he played in all 162 games in both seasons. With RISP he hit .320 and .340 in each of his past 2 seasons. Oh yea, plus he won a gold glove and is known to have a great arm. Looked like he was becoming a very marketable player for the Braves as well (Grady Sizemore-esque).

Then he just sucked. Plain and simple. Terrible. Can't hit for his life. Just fell off the face of the earth. Went to minors for 3 days, going 7-13 during that stint. Can't hit the long ball, and the only redeeming thing about his '08 year was that his OBP and AVG were decent in September.

Surely this has happened before in MLB but I can't think or find a comparable player. Angel Berroa was really all I could think of. I'm just interested in knowing if the collective wisdom of the FBGs can come up with some.

 
I was looking at his stats over the past couple of seasons and I can't think of a single player who's gone through what he has. I'm sure a comparable player exists, but I either haven't been watching baseball long enough or haven't been following it closely enough to know.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/francje02.shtml

A first-round pick, hometown kid, Top 3 in ROY voting at age 21. Certainly showed a lot of potential.

Followed up the rookie year with 2 great seasons. His HR/AB number dropped but his BB:K ratio and doubles increased by a great amount. His OBP jumped up 40+ points and he played in all 162 games in both seasons. With RISP he hit .320 and .340 in each of his past 2 seasons. Oh yea, plus he won a gold glove and is known to have a great arm. Looked like he was becoming a very marketable player for the Braves as well (Grady Sizemore-esque).

Then he just sucked. Plain and simple. Terrible. Can't hit for his life. Just fell off the face of the earth. Went to minors for 3 days, going 7-13 during that stint. Can't hit the long ball, and the only redeeming thing about his '08 year was that his OBP and AVG were decent in September.

Surely this has happened before in MLB but I can't think or find a comparable player. Angel Berroa was really all I could think of. I'm just interested in knowing if the collective wisdom of the FBGs can come up with some.
Cano
 
Followed up the rookie year with 2 great seasons.
I'd hardly call those two great seasons.His 2006 line of .260/.293/.449 was pretty dreadful for a corner OF.2007 was solid, but unspectacular. OPS of around .800, just over league average.IMO he went from mediocre to bad in 2008, which isn't all that shocking. The power leaving was a little strange, but his plate discipline has always been horrific, striking out almost 4 times per each walk. It's hard to sustain success that way.Francoeur, Berroa and Cano are good examples of the importance of plate discipline. No matter how athletic/talented you are, you've got to learn to take walks or major league pitchers will eventually chew you up.
 
Followed up the rookie year with 2 great seasons.
I'd hardly call those two great seasons.His 2006 line of .260/.293/.449 was pretty dreadful for a corner OF.2007 was solid, but unspectacular. OPS of around .800, just over league average.IMO he went from mediocre to bad in 2008, which isn't all that shocking. The power leaving was a little strange, but his plate discipline has always been horrific, striking out almost 4 times per each walk. It's hard to sustain success that way.Francoeur, Berroa and Cano are good examples of the importance of plate discipline. No matter how athletic/talented you are, you've got to learn to take walks or major league pitchers will eventually chew you up.
:rolleyes:
 
Followed up the rookie year with 2 great seasons.
I'd hardly call those two great seasons.His 2006 line of .260/.293/.449 was pretty dreadful for a corner OF.2007 was solid, but unspectacular. OPS of around .800, just over league average.IMO he went from mediocre to bad in 2008, which isn't all that shocking. The power leaving was a little strange, but his plate discipline has always been horrific, striking out almost 4 times per each walk. It's hard to sustain success that way.Francoeur, Berroa and Cano are good examples of the importance of plate discipline. No matter how athletic/talented you are, you've got to learn to take walks or major league pitchers will eventually chew you up.
:rolleyes:
OK, what about Swisher then?
 
Pat Burrell
Good call.2002: 157 games, 37 HR, 116 RBI, .282 AVG, .376 OBP, .544 SLG2003: 146 games, 21 HR, 64 RBI, .209 AVG, .309, OBP .404, SLGAs for Cano, I can definitely see the comparison being made, but at least Cano had a good second half. Francoeur just stunk all season long.
 
Nick Swisher?
Swisher and Francoeur have similar strikeout numbers, but their walk numbers are not even in the same stratosphere.Francoeur has such an awful OBP, that if he isn't slugging .500+, he is an awful player to have on your team.
 
the moops said:
Nick Swisher?
Swisher and Francoeur have similar strikeout numbers, but their walk numbers are not even in the same stratosphere.Francoeur has such an awful OBP, that if he isn't slugging .500+, he is an awful player to have on your team.
True, but Swish and Burrell are opposites of Francoeur in terms of plate discipline, but all three struggled after some initial success. I'd give Swisher a lot greater chance of turning it around next year than Francoeur for the reasons you've mentioned.
 
the moops said:
Nick Swisher?
Swisher and Francoeur have similar strikeout numbers, but their walk numbers are not even in the same stratosphere.Francoeur has such an awful OBP, that if he isn't slugging .500+, he is an awful player to have on your team.
True, but Swish and Burrell are opposites of Francoeur in terms of plate discipline, but all three struggled after some initial success. I'd give Swisher a lot greater chance of turning it around next year than Francoeur for the reasons you've mentioned.
No doubt.Swisher is an excellent buy low candidate, as it seems the Sox are trying to dump him.
 
the moops said:
Nick Swisher?
Swisher and Francoeur have similar strikeout numbers, but their walk numbers are not even in the same stratosphere.Francoeur has such an awful OBP, that if he isn't slugging .500+, he is an awful player to have on your team.
True, but Swish and Burrell are opposites of Francoeur in terms of plate discipline, but all three struggled after some initial success. I'd give Swisher a lot greater chance of turning it around next year than Francoeur for the reasons you've mentioned.
No doubt.Swisher is an excellent buy low candidate, as it seems the Sox are trying to dump him.
Agreed.Those that have good plate discipline are ones I'd personally take a chance on over a hacker. Low average can be overcome with good walk rates and slugging percentage.
 
the moops said:
Nick Swisher?
Swisher and Francoeur have similar strikeout numbers, but their walk numbers are not even in the same stratosphere.Francoeur has such an awful OBP, that if he isn't slugging .500+, he is an awful player to have on your team.
True, but Swish and Burrell are opposites of Francoeur in terms of plate discipline, but all three struggled after some initial success. I'd give Swisher a lot greater chance of turning it around next year than Francoeur for the reasons you've mentioned.
No doubt.Swisher is an excellent buy low candidate, as it seems the Sox are trying to dump him.
Agreed.Those that have good plate discipline are ones I'd personally take a chance on over a hacker. Low average can be overcome with good walk rates and slugging percentage.
Swish's 2008 BABIP was only .251.
 
the moops said:
Nick Swisher?
Swisher and Francoeur have similar strikeout numbers, but their walk numbers are not even in the same stratosphere.Francoeur has such an awful OBP, that if he isn't slugging .500+, he is an awful player to have on your team.
True, but Swish and Burrell are opposites of Francoeur in terms of plate discipline, but all three struggled after some initial success. I'd give Swisher a lot greater chance of turning it around next year than Francoeur for the reasons you've mentioned.
No doubt.Swisher is an excellent buy low candidate, as it seems the Sox are trying to dump him.
Agreed.Those that have good plate discipline are ones I'd personally take a chance on over a hacker. Low average can be overcome with good walk rates and slugging percentage.
Swish's 2008 BABIP was only .251.
BABIP depends a bit on luck. A couple grounders-with-eyes and line drives not hit right at outfielders, and that BABIP is up.
 
Jeff Burroughs is a little similar. Won the MVP in his age 23 season, then tanked at ages 24 and 25 (though kept most of his power), then rebounded for a couple of good years at 26 and 27. Though i don't expect Francoeur to come close to Burroughs' career.
 

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