Jeremy Maclin, WR PHI (1 Viewer)

[Mainevent]

I must be going against most rankings/projections/evaluations done, but I feel Maclin has the skill and talent needed to succeed at the next level, and is in a better position to do it than Crabtree. If I had pick 1.1 in a PPR draft and WR was my need, I'd be trading back and letting someone else take Crabtree so I could get Maclin+ w/e value. I have them ranked as 1a and 1b, and see Maclin as the only WR Crabtree is NOT head and shoulders above in this draft.

Crabtree seems to be the consensus pick at WR1, but I just don't see what separates him from Maclin. Crabtree does not have the speed to separate from NFL CBs that Maclin produces, although Crabtree is the better route runner, that is a skill that can be taught, speed can't.

I don't see a great deal difference b/w their abilities to catch the ball, both are solid hand catchers. Crabtree may have a couple inches on Maclin and a few pounds, but seems like neither WR has any issue running over the middle to catch a ball.

I see their talent about equal based on this, and when it comes down to it, PHI is a better place to be for a WR than SF. McNabb just signed on for 2 more seasons, thus they won't be slowing down on the passing game. Westy's run is coming to an end as well, I figure he has one solid year left in him. Then they will be needing other targets to rely on. I see DeSean Jackson as more of a slot WR, than a WR1 or WR2 playing out wide. He can catch the deep ball, but he didn't seem to go over the middle very often. Maclin's skill set seems more complete than Jackson's coming into the league. The only negative is McNabb really loves to spread the ball around, and this may limit the number of targets b/w Jackson and Maclin. Although, it has been a while since Philly had a WR1 type receiver. I see Maclin as a Steve Smith type WR, quick, agile, tough, can catch the ball anywhere on the field.

Based on this, imo Maclin has the decisive edge over Crabtree situation wise (SF's QB is still shaky at best...). Talent's being equal, I'll take Maclin over Crabtree, but I wanted the thoughts of the Shark Pool. I know most will take Crabtree, but I'd like to hear where you differ from me and my thinking, and what you see each player doing this season, and forward.

 

[offdee]

Maclin is straight line speed faster than Crabtree.

That is the only thing Maclin has an edge over Crabtree.

 

[MAC_32]

I question Maclin's toughness, Philly's ability to develop WR's, and his route running.

I'm not confident about this panning out and given where he's going in dyno's won't be targeting him, but I will be monitoring him throughout the next two years. There's no denying his talent and potential, if he does connect the dots I want to be there to pick him up before most, I just think he's too risky given his current rate/alternatives to invest a dyno roster spot on. Of this years rookie crop I'd rather have Nicks and Harvin by a lot and (depending on my team's makeup) Robiskie too, and yes I realize about Harvin's perceived risks too.

 

[Couch Potato]

Until we see how rookie WRs adapt to their new environments, how well they learn the playbooks, deal with NFL DBs, etc., we just don't know. Some highly touted rookies just never cut it because they don't grasp the schemes or don't put in the work (guys like David Terrell for example). Others take a year, or two years, and still others shine right away.

WR success in the NFL is hard to predict a lot of the time, and it's often not about speed or talent or college success or draft pick number. Truth is, until they get into training camp and preseason games with live bullets and they have to be where they're supposed to be at the right time, we're left to guess who will stand out and who will flop.

If you strongly believe in Maclin, go with him. There's a certain satisfaction in taking a non-consensus stand and then being right. And if you're wrong, at least you owned the decision yourself.

Good luck.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Crabtree is a better route runner. Crabtree has the skill of coming back to the pass and eating it up like Brandon Marshall. Crabtree also can get up on a DB and catch balls like a Plaxico Burress or Fitzgerald. Add in Crabtree's run after the catch ability and he has a bunch of skills which are better than Maclin's.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

McNabb might make Maclin look like a competent pro for a year or two, similar to what he did when he had Donte Stallworth. But IMO Maclin won't pan out into a legit WR#1. The Missouri offense masked some big flaws in his game and his college numbers are inflated by the spread. Catching as many balls as he did the last couple years made it easy to generate weekly highlights that got everyone excited, but there were guys doing a lot more with a lot less opportunity.

 

[renesauz]

I can't figure out why people think Maclin has such a great opportunity in Philly, at least in 2009. The Philly offense, historically, has been notoriously hard on rookies. DeSean Jackson was the only exception, and he was thrown into the fire due to injuries to Curtis and Brown.

Then look at the depth chart!

Jackson is an obvious starter, and it can't be assumed he'll go anywhere anytime soon.

Curtis is a solid NFL WR. He was hurt much of last year but should be healthy this year. While no all-pro, Curtis is far too solid and steady to be pushed aside by a raw rookie (barring further injury trouble).

Avant: Has been called one of the "best slot WR's in the NFL" by Reid. Lacking elite physical traits, Avant has a habit of making the tough catch.

Baskett: Shouldn't stand in Maclin's way for long.

Brown: Being written off waaaaay too early. After showing the expected promise/developement in 2007, Brown fell off a cliff last year...but he also missed most of training camp and fought nagging injury all year. A former second round pick who's shown flashes....it's nuts to write him off at this point.

Then....a pass catching RB in Westbrook (McCoy), and a good recieiving TE in Celek.....mix in a QB who likes to spread the ball around a lot (check what WR2's and 3's have historically done in Philly)...and the fantasy prospects for Maclin in 2009 are dim indeed. In redraft, he should be no better then a late round flyer.

There's a lot to like long term for dynasty owners. The talent is there. While the depth chart is deep, outside of Jackson, there's nobody on it that Maclin's talent and pedigree shouldn't eventually overcome. But does that justify a top dynasty pick? In Philly's offense, he has to not just eventually win a starting slot, but exceed Jackson enough to demand an unusually high (for Philly) target count if he's going to justify a top five pick.....and that's far from realistic.

Maclin has a relatively easy path to relevance, but a very tough path to fantasy stardom. There are many players (like Nicks) who might be slightly less talented, but have a much, much easier path to stardom. (I know most of us go with the talent over opportunity...I'm refuting the O.P.s assertion that Maclin has a prime opportunity...because he doesn't)

 

[corpcow]

I question Maclin's toughness, Philly's ability to develop WR's, and his route running.

I'm not confident about this panning out and given where he's going in dyno's won't be targeting him, but I will be monitoring him throughout the next two years. There's no denying his talent and potential, if he does connect the dots I want to be there to pick him up before most, I just think he's too risky given his current rate/alternatives to invest a dyno roster spot on. Of this years rookie crop I'd rather have Nicks and Harvin by a lot and (depending on my team's makeup) Robiskie too, and yes I realize about Harvin's perceived risks too.

Funny, mostly in non-PPR but even in a few PPR, I've found Maclin to be a great value, often falling to 1.09 or later. In most leagues, Nicks seems to be going first, and then you get the Maclin/Harvin/DHB tier after all the RBs and sometimes QBs are off the board.

 

[RockHard]

If you strongly believe in Maclin, go with him. There's a certain satisfaction in taking a non-consensus stand and then being right. And if you're wrong, at least you owned the decision yourself.Good luck.

 

[CaptainHook]

I can't figure out why people think Maclin has such a great opportunity in Philly, at least in 2009. The Philly offense, historically, has been notoriously hard on rookies. DeSean Jackson was the only exception, and he was thrown into the fire due to injuries to Curtis and Brown.

Then look at the depth chart!

Jackson is an obvious starter, and it can't be assumed he'll go anywhere anytime soon.

Curtis is a solid NFL WR. He was hurt much of last year but should be healthy this year. While no all-pro, Curtis is far too solid and steady to be pushed aside by a raw rookie (barring further injury trouble).

Avant: Has been called one of the "best slot WR's in the NFL" by Reid. Lacking elite physical traits, Avant has a habit of making the tough catch.

Baskett: Shouldn't stand in Maclin's way for long.

Brown: Being written off waaaaay too early. After showing the expected promise/developement in 2007, Brown fell off a cliff last year...but he also missed most of training camp and fought nagging injury all year. A former second round pick who's shown flashes....it's nuts to write him off at this point.

Then....a pass catching RB in Westbrook (McCoy), and a good recieiving TE in Celek.....mix in a QB who likes to spread the ball around a lot (check what WR2's and 3's have historically done in Philly)...and the fantasy prospects for Maclin in 2009 are dim indeed. In redraft, he should be no better then a late round flyer.

There's a lot to like long term for dynasty owners. The talent is there. While the depth chart is deep, outside of Jackson, there's nobody on it that Maclin's talent and pedigree shouldn't eventually overcome. But does that justify a top dynasty pick? In Philly's offense, he has to not just eventually win a starting slot, but exceed Jackson enough to demand an unusually high (for Philly) target count if he's going to justify a top five pick.....and that's far from realistic.

Maclin has a relatively easy path to relevance, but a very tough path to fantasy stardom. There are many players (like Nicks) who might be slightly less talented, but have a much, much easier path to stardom. (I know most of us go with the talent over opportunity...I'm refuting the O.P.s assertion that Maclin has a prime opportunity...because he doesn't)

Very very very good post. Only disagreement is reggie brown. I wouldn't be surprised to see him before the season. It will be very interesting to see what the eagles do with the offense this year. Good year to have McNabb...not a good year to have the WRs.

 

[Mainevent]

Maclin is straight line speed faster than Crabtree.

That is the only thing Maclin has an edge over Crabtree.

What about their QBs and offense?

Until we see how rookie WRs adapt to their new environments, how well they learn the playbooks, deal with NFL DBs, etc., we just don't know. Some highly touted rookies just never cut it because they don't grasp the schemes or don't put in the work (guys like David Terrell for example). Others take a year, or two years, and still others shine right away.

WR success in the NFL is hard to predict a lot of the time, and it's often not about speed or talent or college success or draft pick number. Truth is, until they get into training camp and preseason games with live bullets and they have to be where they're supposed to be at the right time, we're left to guess who will stand out and who will flop.

If you strongly believe in Maclin, go with him. There's a certain satisfaction in taking a non-consensus stand and then being right. And if you're wrong, at least you owned the decision yourself.

Good luck.

Thanks, I agree with this post, and sometimes why I find it hard why people pay so much for rookies when they haven't played in one NFL game to date. Same type of deal with the contracts they receive when they are drafted.

I question Maclin's toughness, Philly's ability to develop WR's, and his route running.

I'm not confident about this panning out and given where he's going in dyno's won't be targeting him, but I will be monitoring him throughout the next two years. There's no denying his talent and potential, if he does connect the dots I want to be there to pick him up before most, I just think he's too risky given his current rate/alternatives to invest a dyno roster spot on. Of this years rookie crop I'd rather have Nicks and Harvin by a lot and (depending on my team's makeup) Robiskie too, and yes I realize about Harvin's perceived risks too.

Funny, mostly in non-PPR but even in a few PPR, I've found Maclin to be a great value, often falling to 1.09 or later. In most leagues, Nicks seems to be going first, and then you get the Maclin/Harvin/DHB tier after all the RBs and sometimes QBs are off the board.

Yeah, Maclin slid down to the 1.8 in our dynasty league, I didn't have a first this year to take him though. Nicks and Harvin both went ahead of him.Talent usually rises to the top though... and I just see Maclin with more than the other WRs that most have him tiered with.

 

[Mainevent]

Crabtree is a better route runner. Crabtree has the skill of coming back to the pass and eating it up like Brandon Marshall. Crabtree also can get up on a DB and catch balls like a Plaxico Burress or Fitzgerald. Add in Crabtree's run after the catch ability and he has a bunch of skills which are better than Maclin's.

I am not going to disagree to say that Crabtree does not have those 'skills', but how many games have you seen Maclin play in that you can say that he doesn't? Maclin's YAC ability is right there with Crabtree from what I've read/seen/heard, add in his break away speed and that is why Maclin is right on par with Crabtree.

 

[Ray_T]

I must be going against most rankings/projections/evaluations done, but I feel Maclin has the skill and talent needed to succeed at the next level, and is in a better position to do it than Crabtree. If I had pick 1.1 in a PPR draft and WR was my need, I'd be trading back and letting someone else take Crabtree so I could get Maclin+ w/e value. I have them ranked as 1a and 1b, and see Maclin as the only WR Crabtree is NOT head and shoulders above in this draft. Crabtree seems to be the consensus pick at WR1, but I just don't see what separates him from Maclin. Crabtree does not have the speed to separate from NFL CBs that Maclin produces, although Crabtree is the better route runner, that is a skill that can be taught, speed can't.I don't see a great deal difference b/w their abilities to catch the ball, both are solid hand catchers. Crabtree may have a couple inches on Maclin and a few pounds, but seems like neither WR has any issue running over the middle to catch a ball.I see their talent about equal based on this, and when it comes down to it, PHI is a better place to be for a WR than SF. McNabb just signed on for 2 more seasons, thus they won't be slowing down on the passing game. Westy's run is coming to an end as well, I figure he has one solid year left in him. Then they will be needing other targets to rely on. I see DeSean Jackson as more of a slot WR, than a WR1 or WR2 playing out wide. He can catch the deep ball, but he didn't seem to go over the middle very often. Maclin's skill set seems more complete than Jackson's coming into the league. The only negative is McNabb really loves to spread the ball around, and this may limit the number of targets b/w Jackson and Maclin. Although, it has been a while since Philly had a WR1 type receiver. I see Maclin as a Steve Smith type WR, quick, agile, tough, can catch the ball anywhere on the field.Based on this, imo Maclin has the decisive edge over Crabtree situation wise (SF's QB is still shaky at best...). Talent's being equal, I'll take Maclin over Crabtree, but I wanted the thoughts of the Shark Pool. I know most will take Crabtree, but I'd like to hear where you differ from me and my thinking, and what you see each player doing this season, and forward.

As mentioned, Crabtree is bigger, more physical, and better at getting those Jump balls. He is a better, more polished Route runner.he is more NFL ready.Maclin will need a half a season to a full season before his development is at a place that compares to Crabtree's level today. I think the end potential is comparable but in the end, I'd rather have crabtree.

 

[CaptainHook]

Crabtree is nothing like Fitz or Burress. But he needs to be given his speed. I'm not too optimistic about crabtree's prospects.

If I was doing a dynasty I'd take WRs in this order:

1. Nicks

2. Maclin

3. Harvin

4. britt

5. crabtree

6. deon butler

Maclin should put up 600 yards this season and will probably be a 1000 yard guy as soon as curtis leaves.

 

[Darker Knight]

I see Maclin as a Kick Returner for most of year one......he has way too many holes in his game to be a good starting WR...he may come on late in 2009 after some coaching

 

[offdee]

Crabtree is nothing like Fitz or Burress. But he needs to be given his speed. I'm not too optimistic about crabtree's prospects.

He's just as fast, if not faster, than both Fitz or Burress. Burress is taller than Crabtree, but other than that Crabtree is a better pure WR in all aspects over Burress. (especially hands)

 

[puckalicious]

Maclin is straight line speed faster than Crabtree.That is the only thing Maclin has an edge over Crabtree.

What about their QBs and offense?

QB and offense will not hold back a truly good WR. See Calvin Johnson and Dwayne Bowe as recent examples.

 

[kremenull]

I must be going against most rankings/projections/evaluations done, but I feel Maclin has the skill and talent needed to succeed at the next level, and is in a better position to do it than Crabtree. If I had pick 1.1 in a PPR draft and WR was my need, I'd be trading back and letting someone else take Crabtree so I could get Maclin+ w/e value. I have them ranked as 1a and 1b, and see Maclin as the only WR Crabtree is NOT head and shoulders above in this draft.

Crabtree seems to be the consensus pick at WR1, but I just don't see what separates him from Maclin. Crabtree does not have the speed to separate from NFL CBs that Maclin produces, although Crabtree is the better route runner, that is a skill that can be taught, speed can't.

I don't see a great deal difference b/w their abilities to catch the ball, both are solid hand catchers. Crabtree may have a couple inches on Maclin and a few pounds, but seems like neither WR has any issue running over the middle to catch a ball.

I see their talent about equal based on this, and when it comes down to it, PHI is a better place to be for a WR than SF. McNabb just signed on for 2 more seasons, thus they won't be slowing down on the passing game. Westy's run is coming to an end as well, I figure he has one solid year left in him. Then they will be needing other targets to rely on. I see DeSean Jackson as more of a slot WR, than a WR1 or WR2 playing out wide. He can catch the deep ball, but he didn't seem to go over the middle very often. Maclin's skill set seems more complete than Jackson's coming into the league. The only negative is McNabb really loves to spread the ball around, and this may limit the number of targets b/w Jackson and Maclin. Although, it has been a while since Philly had a WR1 type receiver. I see Maclin as a Steve Smith type WR, quick, agile, tough, can catch the ball anywhere on the field.

Based on this, imo Maclin has the decisive edge over Crabtree situation wise (SF's QB is still shaky at best...). Talent's being equal, I'll take Maclin over Crabtree, but I wanted the thoughts of the Shark Pool. I know most will take Crabtree, but I'd like to hear where you differ from me and my thinking, and what you see each player doing this season, and forward.

By these comments I seriously don't think you've watched enough Eagles games and/or film, especially of DeSean. DeSean lines up all over the field and can play out wide or in the slot with equal aplomb. This kid is extremely polished for a young WR, and knows how to run, and better yet, sell, routes very well. And FWIW, I'd take DeSean over both Maclin and Crabtree.....All Day!Neither one of these guys will match what Jackson did his rookie year.......nor going forward!

 

[Mainevent]

Maclin is straight line speed faster than Crabtree.That is the only thing Maclin has an edge over Crabtree.

What about their QBs and offense?

QB and offense will not hold back a truly good WR. See Calvin Johnson and Dwayne Bowe as recent examples.

Fair enough, but then Crabtree has to be truly good then, which is yet to be seen, same goes for Maclin. There is no way I would compare Crabtree to Bowe or Calvin though.

 

[Mainevent]

By these comments I seriously don't think you've watched enough Eagles games and/or film, especially of DeSean. DeSean lines up all over the field and can play out wide or in the slot with equal aplomb. This kid is extremely polished for a young WR, and knows how to run, and better yet, sell, routes very well. And FWIW, I'd take DeSean over both Maclin and Crabtree.....All Day!Neither one of these guys will match what Jackson did his rookie year.......

I've watched my share of games, although you may perceive things differently than me. I watched DeSean play, and he had good numbers for a rookie, they really didn't have many other options (not sure if you saw the eagles play last year?). Of course he was going to get looks with that WR corp, with the injuries they had. But his skill set seems very limited when compared to Crabtree or Maclin, who I see having a higher ceiling. If the eagles or 49ers are injury riddled, or Maclin/Crabtree get the number of targets in SF that DeSean got last year, then they will easily match DeSean's numbers from a year ago.But I was thinking more along dynasty value, and which player is more likely to excel for longer at a higher standard in the league. Not just next year.

 

[kremenull]

By these comments I seriously don't think you've watched enough Eagles games and/or film, especially of DeSean. DeSean lines up all over the field and can play out wide or in the slot with equal aplomb. This kid is extremely polished for a young WR, and knows how to run, and better yet, sell, routes very well. And FWIW, I'd take DeSean over both Maclin and Crabtree.....All Day!Neither one of these guys will match what Jackson did his rookie year.......

I've watched my share of games, although you may perceive things differently than me. I watched DeSean play, and he had good numbers for a rookie, they really didn't have many other options (not sure if you saw the eagles play last year?). Of course he was going to get looks with that WR corp, with the injuries they had. But his skill set seems very limited when compared to Crabtree or Maclin, who I see having a higher ceiling. If the eagles or 49ers are injury riddled, or Maclin/Crabtree get the number of targets in SF that DeSean got last year, then they will easily match DeSean's numbers from a year ago.But I was thinking more along dynasty value, and which player is more likely to excel for longer at a higher standard in the league. Not just next year.

Well now we'll get to see the reversal of the good fortune that has benefitted Crabtree so much to date - SYSTEM. DeSean and Maclin are in a much friendlier (and higher-octane) offense than Crabtree right now, and while each has their strengths as well as weaknesses, I don't place DeSean's overall skill set anywhere below what Maclin or Crabtree has. Where Crabtree is bigger, stronger, and has 'supposedly' great hands, DeSean is quicker, more elusive, has very good hands, and is more versatile (lines up all over, including the backfield, as well as returns punts). Maclin has good traits as well, combining a bit of both of these guys. Bottom line is I can't predict who will eventually be better over the long haul any moreso than the next guy, but I have liked what I've seen from DeSean with regards to his skill set and I think he moves forward as a very underrated player (fantasy and otherwise). And yeah, I meant dynasty as well......DeSean > Crabtree/Maclin