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Jerod Mayo likely done for the year (1 Viewer)

If it is a torn pectoral that would surely end his season.

Maybe Jene can chime in if there is any shot with a partial tear if he could come back.

 
Would this be a boost for Spikes?
well, maybe in a competition for tackles sense, but that's kind of speculative.

until the wilfork injury, spikes had lost snaps because he's stronger downhill, and weaker in coverage, so he'd lose nickel snaps --- that might not change.

pats can still use hightower, fletcher, and jamie collins for passing snaps.

I'm going to look at the last few series when game rewind is actually working and I'll post it in my filmroom.

 
Tough break I've had mayo for the last 3 years he's been great. I do know in the past when he's been out a couple weeks here and there spikes received almost all mayos reps. In fact spikes went from a 6 or 7pt player to a 16-17pt average. But this was also before they had Collins.

 
Tough break I've had mayo for the last 3 years he's been great. I do know in the past when he's been out a couple weeks here and there spikes received almost all mayos reps. In fact spikes went from a 6 or 7pt player to a 16-17pt average. But this was also before they had Collins.
all these guys really play different roles, and things have changed a bit with the more recent lb additions.

dane fletcher is basically the ilb back up, and that's just how they used him when mayo went out.

so, prior to the wilfork injury, you'd have spikes losing a lot of coverage snaps to hightower, with mayo as a constant on the field.

more recently, maybe because the wilfork injury weakened them up the middle, or maybe because hightower had a little hammy issue a couple weeks ago, spikes had regained the bulk of his snaps (alongside mayo), and was pretty much a mason foster to mayo's david, coming off in dime.

jamie collins is really a subpackage guy who plays on the edge.

I went and looked at each play after mayo came off the field, and here's what they did:

3rd+20 - hightower in dime

4 plays where they just loaded the box vs an obvious run, and fletcher subbed in for mayo

2 pass plays where they lined up in a 3-4 with fletcher subbing for mayo --- spikes split out wide to pick a guy up in coverage on one play, with fletcher shifting to traditional mlb.

fletcher is basically the new mayo, but I can't swear he'll stay on the field as often as mayo did, and might lose a few snaps situationally, in dime, or whatever.

a couple years ago gary guyton had a couple productive weeks filling in for mayo. and fletcher was credited (by NEP stat crew) as being in on 3 tackles in about 7 plays

 
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Kool-Aid Larry said:
bigal0303 said:
Tough break I've had mayo for the last 3 years he's been great. I do know in the past when he's been out a couple weeks here and there spikes received almost all mayos reps. In fact spikes went from a 6 or 7pt player to a 16-17pt average. But this was also before they had Collins.
all these guys really play different roles, and things have changed a bit with the more recent lb additions.

dane fletcher is basically the ilb back up, and that's just how they used him when mayo went out.

so, prior to the wilfork injury, you'd have spikes losing a lot of coverage snaps to hightower, with mayo as a constant on the field.

more recently, maybe because the wilfork injury weakened them up the middle, or maybe because hightower had a little hammy issue a couple weeks ago, spikes had regained the bulk of his snaps (alongside mayo), and was pretty much a mason foster to mayo's david, coming off in dime.

jamie collins is really a subpackage guy who plays on the edge.

I went and looked at each play after mayo came off the field, and here's what they did:

3rd+20 - hightower in dime

4 plays where they just loaded the box vs an obvious run, and fletcher subbed in for mayo

2 pass plays where they lined up in a 3-4 with fletcher subbing for mayo --- spikes split out wide to pick a guy up in coverage on one play, with fletcher shifting to traditional mlb.

fletcher is basically the new mayo, but I can't swear he'll stay on the field as often as mayo did, and might lose a few snaps situationally, in dime, or whatever.

a couple years ago gary guyton had a couple productive weeks filling in for mayo. and fletcher was credited (by NEP stat crew) as being in on 3 tackles in about 7 plays
Um, when are you joining the FGB crew on the IDP roundtable? I'd pay a subscription for your services.Seriously, good stuff.

 
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maybe I'll start a newsletter

or I'll have an ad covering all my posts that charges your card when you try to click through it

btw, all this stuff is generally my own opinion, if I'm not copy/pasting something, and I'm no expert.

mike reiss (pats beat writer) actually seems to think that jamie collins could get these snaps, but I'm fairly skeptical on that, even though mike is awesome.

just thought to check in with some of my pats bruthas for an expert opinion on this, and here's a courtesy link with some screencaps of the final plays that I mentioned.

here's a good little tidbit

@brian_mcintyre: With Jerod Mayo going on IR, Patriots now have $20.6M in cap dollars on IR, most in the NFL by over $4M.

 
hmmmm....seems patriots.com disagrees with me........

I didn't think about the special teams angle --- maybe they like fletcher on special teams, and think both jobs would be too much.

Steve Beauharnais, LB, Rutgers

  • 6-0 7/8, 240, 4.87
  • 32 3/4 arms, 9 1/8 hands, 19 bench, 4.20 short shuttle, 33 vertical, 6.99 three-cone
  • The undisputed leader of a Rutgers defense that was one of the best in the country;
  • Is a four-down linebacker, meaning that in addition to playing on first and second downs, he can cover and stand out on special teams;
  • Decent in coverage;
  • Despite being a small player, he takes on blocks well and takes good angles;
  • He is a lot smaller than the type of players the Patriots like to have on defense. He is almost the same size as former special teams standout Tracy White, who remains unsigned. Could be eyeing Beauharnais as White's replacement.
What the "experts" are saying:

OurLads Scouting: "Active and productive. Collected 268 career tackles and 16 sacks, which is rare for a MLB. Needs more core strength to take on the big linemen and backs. Quick to fit the hole. Normally takes good angles in pursuit. Tracks well moving downhill but will waste steps at times. Fifth/sixth round."

Pro Football Weekly: "A good, functional player with field smarts, toughness and competitiveness to fight his way into a starting lineup. Ability to play multiple positions will allow to minimally stick as a quality backup and contribute on special teams. Could prove to be a solid value selection. Fourth/fifth round."

Mel Kiper Jr.: "Generally an inside-the-box guy who understands the defense. Weight fluctuated so he needs to figure out at which weight he'll be most effective playing. He's a picture-perfect form tackler, but he'll also deliver bone-jarring hits. When this kids hits you, he hurts you. He's only average in coverage, otherwise his grade might be higher. Third-fourth round."
here's a random internet opinion on beauharnais

Kiper thought this guy should have gone in the 2nd or 3rd round. I've looked at a little tape on him; he reminds me of Nick Buoniconti, a small middle linebacker who just can't be fooled, gets to where he is supposed to be and makes the tackle. Just as Buoniconti didn't have all the monster hits of better-known MLB's like Butkus, Nitschke or Lanier, but made all the tackles they made, Beauharnais may not have the flash of a lot of other MLB's coming into the league now, but may be just as solid as they. This guy could be a great part of the defense for years to come.
 
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Hightower set to lead defensive huddle By Mike Reiss | ESPNBoston.com

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4751265/hightower-set-to-lead-defensive-huddle?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Second-year linebacker Dont'a Hightower said Wednesday that he will wear the communication device in his helmet and lead the New England Patriots' defensive huddle
As for the specifics of the responsibility, Hightower said it starts with preparation and knowing "what everyone has to do, what position they have to be in.”
"Basically just being the quarterback of the defense," he said,
 
When you look at the Ravens, is this a good year to have a late pick in the sense that they have, it seems to be, a deep draft into an inside linebacker and safety, and there may be some really good players at the end of the first round? Do you see this being a year where they go defense when you look maybe into the third day drafting guys, could be a defense heavy draft for the Ravens?



MEL KIPER, JR.: It should be. They’ve done some really good things in free agency with the players they picked up. That’s alleviated some of the concerns and some of the forces you need to deal with on draft day because of needs that are there and you have to fix. I think they’ve given themselves some flexibility.

You look at the inside linebacker position still is in play with a Kevin Minter possibly from LSU. Still a safety is in play with a Jonathan Cyprien from Florida International, or Matt Elam from Florida. Look at second round at a D.J. Swearinger from North Carolina.

There’s a lot of depth at safety. There’s not a lot of depth at inside linebacker after a third round. So Steve Beauharnais from Rutgers, Jon Bostic from Florida in the third round. If you’re looking at Arthur Brown from Kansas State, you’re probably looking second round. Safety, inside backer, left tackle. Maybe Terron Armstead from Arkansas Pine Bluff at the end of the second round for the Ravens.
kiper's final draft board for ILB

Mel Kiper Jr.

1. Manti Te'o, Notre Dame

2. Alec Ogletree, Georgia

3. Kevin Minter, LSU

4. Jonathan Bostic, Florida

5. Steve Beauharnais, Rutgers
 
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Hightower set to lead defensive huddle By Mike Reiss | ESPNBoston.com

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4751265/hightower-set-to-lead-defensive-huddle?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Second-year linebacker Dont'a Hightower said Wednesday that he will wear the communication device in his helmet and lead the New England Patriots' defensive huddle
As for the specifics of the responsibility, Hightower said it starts with preparation and knowing "what everyone has to do, what position they have to be in.”
"Basically just being the quarterback of the defense," he said,
yeah, that would make sense as they had green dotted him in preseason games.

 
Kool-aid would you with very little room for error put in claims for both Fletcher and Beauharnais just to make sure you get the guy? I may have to dump Worrilow in order to get two but I'm holding him just to hedge on the Dent ankle.

 
that's a tough question.

hightower has been groomed as the green dot back up, and I have no doubt he'll be the snap leader, but you don't get fantasy points for snaps, and I don't see any particular reason for him to move over to mayo's position.

he played pretty much a full complement of snaps the first 3 weeks, but wasn't tremendously productive --- although, he was in on 8 tackles vs the jets according to that nep stat crew.

I think he might've had a little hammy issue around the time wilfork got hurt, but I'm guessing spikes took his snaps back because they needed a cork in the middle of the field when wilfork went down.

so, at first glance I just assumed they'd stick with fletcher for mayo, since that's what they showed us, but even though beauharnais is just off an internet depth chart, there is some internal logic to it --- beau had been inactive all year, probably due to depth and just a numbers game, although he might've just gotten an active spot against the saints, along with collie, when washington and kelly got deactivated.

not sure about that.

beau seemed pretty well regarded, and if they use fletcher at wlb he probably has to come off special teams, so you're hurting yourself there, when maybe you just use the newly opened active spot for beau at wlb and leave fletcher where he is.

on top of all this, it seems everyone I read has collins pencilled in there -- I'm assuming because of where he was drafted.

it's a productive spot on the field, but I think the bigger question might even be what kind of schemes do they roll out, whether somebody comes off the field half the time, and who would that be.

for example, standard 4-3 might have ninky and chandler at ends, with hightower slb, spikes mlb, and mystery guy wlb.

if you want a 3-4 you can use chandler at rde, keeping basically the same group on the field, but if you wanted more of a 3-3-5 look which guy comes off, or do you even use less nickel?

a couple weeks ago the redskins got tired of getting hammered on the ground, so their 'nickel' look was actually just using 3 cb and 1 s while keeping their front 7 intact.

maybe I can get some screenshots up of a few pats plays.....

edit: yeah, heath evans just claimed jamie collins was taking over for mayo, but I don't know what he based this on.

they should really just keep the camera on lindsay when heath is talking, btw

 
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ok, so I looked at the last series against tampa where we were up 23-3 with 3 min to play.

mayo sat out the garbage series, spikes wasn't needed vs the run, and beauharnais was most likely inactive ---- fletcher only got in on tampa's very final play of the game

pats ran a 4-2-5 nickel defending what was about a 7 play drive down the field, and it was mostly as shown in the image below, although hightower and collins switched sides a couple times because I think collins was lining up opposite tim wright, dropping into coverage on him on a few plays.

view raw image lower left corner

think I might have to eliminate fletcher from the suspects and refund my subscribers

 
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Good stuff Kool-Aid Larry!

The only thing to add, would be Mike Reiss - since he went to EPSN he has failed miserably to accurately outline anything related to the Patriots.

He is pushing the fluff and analytics of the epsn heads and adds very little content beyond the 'obvious'. Field Yates is much better in tracking down the details and providing his opinion and is much better.

Otherwise, Karen G at the Herald has to be the best Pats beat writer atm. I miss Will McDonough - best Boston sports writer ever!

 
http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/10/call_goes_to_dont_a_hightower

Call goes to Dont’a Hightower

Will handle Mayo’s role as quarterback of defense
By: Jeff Howe Boston Herald

But really, since the Patriots have been in a nickel package most of the season, Hightower and Spikes will essentially turn into fulltime linebackers, as opposed to rotational players in those sub-packages.

In a 4-3 base, Spikes would figure to stay in the middle with Hightower on the strong side and rookie Jamie Collins on the weak side and Dane Fletcher as a likely rotational player. In a 3-4 base, Spikes and Fletcher would play inside with Hightower on the strong side and either Rob Ninkovich or Collins on the weak side.

The Pats used only one base formation in seven snaps without Mayo on Sunday, with Chandler Jones, Chris Jones and Joe Vellano up front, Ninkovich and Hightower as outside linebackers and Spikes and Fletcher inside.
They also utilized a 5-3 front on five occasions to prevent the Saints from running out the clock, as well as a dime package with Hightower as the sole linebacker on a third-and-20 after Mayo’s injury. So, there wasn’t an ample opportunity to gauge the Pats’ thought process outside of those end-of-game situations.

 
I got outbid for Collins everywhere. The price paid for him was ridiculous in some leagues. Oh well, them's the breaks.

 
Hightower and Spikes both had 11 combined tackles. Spikes seemed to play less subpackages as expected. Spikes looked to me like he played nickel but when NE went to dime on 3rd and long he came out, Hightower stayed. Anyone see anything else different?

 
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Hightower and Spikes both had 11 combined tackles. Spikes seemed to play less subpackages as expected. Spikes looked to me like he played nickel but when NE went to dime on 3rd and long he came out, Hightower stayed. Anyone see anything else different?
that'd be consistent with teh last couple games, and I'm sure they piled up tackles as teh jets ran the ball 50+ times.

I'm going to look at this one on rewind

 
Patriots top draft choice Jamie Collins only played 15 defensive snaps, which included the first three of the game. Here was what we saw: 1) A blitz off the defensive right side in which he had a pretty solid outside speed rush on left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson; 2) Playing on the line of scrimmage in a two-point stance and setting a fairly solid right edge against Ferguson to keep running back Bilal Powell hemmed inside on a 0-yard gain; 3) A stunt with Chandler Jones in which he lost his footing while looping inside but stayed with it to contribute to forcing an incomplete pass. What stood out with Collins on those plays was that he was playing on the end of the line, which was a bit different from the off-the-line role we had mostly seen in his 52 defensive snaps in the first six games of the season. He blitzed again later in the drive, this time from the defensive left side, and again he was close to disrupting the play.
A look at the snaps played by New England Patriots' defenders in Sunday’s 30-27 loss to the New York Jets, while analyzing what it means (as charted in press box, small margin for error):

DE Chandler Jones – 92 of 92

S Devin McCourty – 92 of 92

DE Rob Ninkovich – 92 of 92

CB Alfonzo Dennard – 90 of 90

DT Chris Jones – 87 of 92

LB Dont’a Hightower – 85 of 92

DT Joe Vellano – 77 of 92

LB Brandon Spikes – 73 of 92

S Steve Gregory – 66 of 92

CB Logan Ryan – 66 of 92

CB Marquice Cole – 61 of 92

CB Kyle Arrington – 34 of 92

S Duron Harmon – 30 of 92

DT Marcus Forston – 26 of 92

LB Jamie Collins – 15 of 92

DE Michael Buchanan – 14 of 92

LB Dane Fletcher – 7 of 92

DT Andre Neblett – 5 of 92

(Includes penalties. Not including kneel-down at the end of the fourth quarter.)

ANALYSIS: One of the big storylines entering the game was how the Patriots would replace LB Jerod Mayo, and it was a multi-layered approach that was dictated by what personnel the Jets put on the field. The Patriots inserted rookie Jamie Collins into the game at Mayo’s weakside linebacker spot in the 4-3 base defense, but the Patriots trended toward a 5-2 base for a bigger front seven instead of the 4-3. Most notable was when the Jets often had fullback Tommy Bohanon on the field in a specific grouping, the Patriots played with linebackers Dont’a Hightower and Brandon Spikes, and instead of bringing on Collins elected for extra bulk up front with Marcus Forston as a third defensive tackle in the 5-2. Otherwise, the Patriots were mostly in their 4-2-5 nickel or 4-1-6 dime with Hightower/Spikes the primary linebacker combination in nickel and Hightower staying on in the dime. Hightower and Spikes are bigger linebackers and they looked a step behind in the passing game at times. That’s probably where the Patriots missed Mayo most – his range and speed in the sub.
~ Mike Reiss

 
and then next week Collins will play 90%
I'm sure hightower will stick in there for the bulk of thesnaps, but it's kind of a question as to where he plays on the field.

I don't expect that 5-2 heavy look much against miami, so if they play those snaps in 4-3 you'd see a lot more of collins in mayo's productive spot, and a lot more of hightower over in the less productive slb slot.

 
CB Alfonzo Dennard -- 80-of-80DT Chris Jones -- 80-of-80

S Devin McCourty -- 80-of-80

DE Rob Ninkovich -- 80-of-80

DE Chandler Jones -- 79-of-80

S Steve Gregory -- 73-of-80

DT Joe Vellano -- 71-of-80

LB Dont'a Hightower -- 62-of-80

LB Brandon Spikes -- 62-of-80

CB Kyle Arrington -- 52-of-80

CB Marquice Cole -- 45-of-80

CB Logan Ryan -- 31-of-80

LB Jamie Collins -- 26-of-80

LB Dane Fletcher -- 20-of-80

DE Andre Carter -- 19-of-80

S Duron Harmon -- 18-of-80

DT Marcus Forston -- 2-of-80

ANALYSIS: Veteran defensive end Andre Carter took the snaps normally played by rookie Michael Buchanan, although he was used slightly differently. In addition to coming in the 4-1-6 dime package, Carter was tapped in a 5-2-4 base defense, which appeared to be a halftime adjustment. Carter didn't show up on the stat sheet, as his snaps were split between seven in the first half and 12 in the second half. ... The primary base defense in the first half was a 4-3, with Jamie Collins at linebacker in place of the injured Jerod Mayo. Collins played 22 snaps in the first half, but with the Patriots going away from that package in the second half, he only played four snaps in the final 30 minutes. ... Linebacker Dane Fletcher saw his most extended defensive playing time as the lone pure linebacker in the 4-1-6 dime. Seemed like a good coaching wrinkle to get the speedier Fletcher on the field in that package in place of the bigger Dont'a Hightower, who is more apt to struggle playing in space. ... Hightower and Brandon Spikes stayed on the field in the 4-2-5 nickel as the two linebackers. ... .. Safety Steve Gregory wore the green dot on his helmet as he had the communication device to the sideline in his helmet.
thank you, MIKE REISS

 

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