What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (3 Viewers)

so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?

this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?





 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
Don't waste your time. When trying to humanize Paterno's reaction, or lack thereof, I was branded quite a few things earlier in this thread. One clown even posted that he couldn't believe how many people were ok with child rapists. :eek: :lmao:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Of course I don't hold him directly responsible, but he had a chance to put a stop to it and didn't. This allowed Sandusky to continue to prey on children for a long time after this incident happened. If he knew about the 1998 stuff as well, then it's even more shameful for him to have done nothing when a new incident came up and he was the first person the witness went to.Whether it's your buddy or not, you should at least do something to protect the victims here. Maybe make sure he gets some help? To just ignore it like this is despicable. Whether he committed a crime or not, he had a clear moral obligation to do more, IMO.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That last part is what has me scratching my head. How are the AD and the Senior VP of the University conducting an investigation if they don't even talk to the witness for a week and a half. And what message does that send when you call someone in for an interview ten days after they reported a heinous act?
They are not required to conduct an investigation. They're supposed to notify the police and/or social services -- but only if they have "reasonable cause" to suspect that abuse has taken place.I'm sure that Curley and Schultz are going to claim that they never had "reasonable cause" to suspect abuse. They will probably claim that McQueary downplayed what he saw in the shower.
This is not what it says in the grand jury report.
Graham Spanier testified about his extensive responsibilities as President of Penn State and his educational background in sociology and marriage and family counseling. He confirmed Curley and Schultz's respective positions of authority with the University. He testified that Curley and Schultz came to him in 2002 to report an incident with Jerry Sandusky that made a member of Curley's staff "uncomfortable" Spanier described it as "Jerry Sandusky in the football building locker area in the shower with a younger child and that they were horsing around in the shower." Spanier testified that even in April, 2011, he did not know the identity of the staff member who had reported the behavior. Spanier denied that it was reported to him as an incident that was sexual in nature and acknowledged that Curley and Schultz had not indicated any plan to report the matter to any law enforcement authority, the Commonwealth of Pemisylvania Department of Public Welfare or any appropriate county child protective services agency. Spanier also denied being aware of a 1998 University Police investigation of Sanduskyfor incidents with children in football building showers.Department of Public Welfare and Children and Youth Services local and state records were subpoenaed by the Grand Jury; University Police records were also subpoenaed. The records reveal that the 2002 incident was never reported to any officials, in contravention oflaw.
Schultz also testified that University President Spanier had been satisfied with the actions he took against Sandusky - banning him from bringing children into the locker room and notifying Second Mile of the incident. Seems Second Mile were notified by the university and parents of multiple victims and also Spanier took very little action in his role as president. The only evidence against Spanier would likely come from testimony of the AD Curley and the VP Schultz. I think from that we can see why the university is handling the legal defense.
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
Don't waste your time. When tryin to humanize Paterno's reaction, of lack thereof, I was branded quite a few things earlier in this thread. One clown even posted that he couldn't believe how many people were ok with child rapists. :eek: :lmao:
BB, no one is for rape of any kind especially children. I do think we need to hear what happened when Paterno testifies. Lawyers are smart, they'll press him for what he knew and he isn't going to perjure himself.
 
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Of course I don't hold him directly responsible, but he had a chance to put a stop to it and didn't. This allowed Sandusky to continue to prey on children for a long time after this incident happened. If he knew about the 1998 stuff as well, then it's even more shameful for him to have done nothing when a new incident came up and he was the first person the witness went to.Whether it's your buddy or not, you should at least do something to protect the victims here. Maybe make sure he gets some help? To just ignore it like this is despicable.
I can't disagree with anything you said but I also think we need to know if that important piece of info is true or not.

 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
I realize it's how some people behave. It's the defending of that behavior that's bull####.This was not an isolated incident. There were at least 8 victims in a pattern of behavior that went on for 15 years. Paterno and everyone else involved in this fiasco had reason to believe that boys lives were being destroyed and they sat by and did nothing. No amount of, "Yeah, but look what THAT guy did" can ever justify their inaction.
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
Don't waste your time. When trying to humanize Paterno's reaction, or lack thereof, I was branded quite a few things earlier in this thread. One clown even posted that he couldn't believe how many people were ok with child rapists. :eek: :lmao:
OK.. I was out of line there. People aren't okay with child rapists. But some people ARE okay with child rapists who happen to be your best friend.
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
I realize it's how some people behave. It's the defending of that behavior that's bull####.This was not an isolated incident. There were at least 8 victims in a pattern of behavior that went on for 15 years. Paterno and everyone else involved in this fiasco had reason to believe that boys lives were being destroyed and they sat by and did nothing. No amount of, "Yeah, but look what THAT guy did" can ever justify their inaction.
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
 
Oh yeah and #### the lawyer for these guys too.

Joe Amendola, Sandusky's State College attorney, said the truth is certainly far from the allegations that he built a life around molesting kids. "When you look in its totality, it's very damning," Amendola said. "But when you pick it apart case by case, it isn't what it seems to be." Amendola said it appears that Sandusky's accusers might have wrongly believed playful behavior was sexual in nature. "It's very possible he pats them on the knee and they're interpreting it one way or they're in the shower and it's not really sexually. You can infer maybe sexual thoughts, but it's not really sexual."
Victim 4 stated that Sandusky would wrestle with him and maneuver him into a position in which Sandusky's head was at Victim 4's genitals and Victim 4's head was at Sandusky's genitals. Sandusky would kiss Victim 4's inner thighs and genitals. Victim 4 described Sandusky rubbing his genitals on Victim 4's face and inserting his erect penis in Victim 4's mouth. There were occasions when this would result in Sandusky ejaculating.
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
I realize it's how some people behave. It's the defending of that behavior that's bull####.This was not an isolated incident. There were at least 8 victims in a pattern of behavior that went on for 15 years. Paterno and everyone else involved in this fiasco had reason to believe that boys lives were being destroyed and they sat by and did nothing. No amount of, "Yeah, but look what THAT guy did" can ever justify their inaction.
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
Just stop - don't fish here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1.0 out of 5 stars Seriously? What a slap in the face to all of his victims! A book titled "Touched" written by a pedophile., November 5, 2011

By M. Munson (Near Venus) - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

This review is from: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (Paperback)

Mr. Sandusky is both a genius and a narcissist, which makes him the perfect predator. At no time was his narcissim more apparent then when he titled his book "Touched". I guarantee this coward will "off" himself, before he ever spends a day with the general prison population. I would like to see him spend the rest of his life locked up with the general prison population; then, perhaps he can write the sequel entitled "Touched II: Predator Turned Prey".
 
'Ministry of Pain said:
so this grad assistant comes over to Paterno's house to discuss the issue but somehow doesn't really explain any details of what he saw? he just says there was "inappropriate conduct" and Paterno doesn't bother to ask for any more details?this is in the realm of "my dog ate my homework" when it comes to excuses.
Aaron, you stated you have worked with children of sexual abuse so obviously you have a different POV but do you really hold Paterno responsible for Sandusky's actions? Paterno wasn't holding the children down while Sandusky raped them. He probably didn't want to believe it when he heard the story and while that might not fly in your mind that is a real emotion in human beings. Many people in history have not acted upon knowledge or acted in a way where they could help. Some people simply freeze or go into denial but I don't think Joe purposely was trying to hurt anyone. If he had walked in and witnessed the event then we might have a different story to discuss or things might have turned out different. Ever hear the story about doubting Thomas?
Pardon my frankness, but this is bull####.
No its not bull####, it's how people behave. Remember the disciples? They fled for the most part.
I realize it's how some people behave. It's the defending of that behavior that's bull####.This was not an isolated incident. There were at least 8 victims in a pattern of behavior that went on for 15 years. Paterno and everyone else involved in this fiasco had reason to believe that boys lives were being destroyed and they sat by and did nothing. No amount of, "Yeah, but look what THAT guy did" can ever justify their inaction.
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
Not sure why you would choose to go there with me. I haven't mentioned the Catholic Church once this entire thread. What's your point?
 
Oh yeah and #### the lawyer for these guys too.

Joe Amendola, Sandusky's State College attorney, said the truth is certainly far from the allegations that he built a life around molesting kids.

"When you look in its totality, it's very damning," Amendola said. "But when you pick it apart case by case, it isn't what it seems to be."

Amendola said it appears that Sandusky's accusers might have wrongly believed playful behavior was sexual in nature.

"It's very possible he pats them on the knee and they're interpreting it one way or they're in the shower and it's not really sexually. You can infer maybe sexual thoughts, but it's not really sexual."
Victim 4 stated that Sandusky would wrestle with him and maneuver him into a position in which Sandusky's head was at Victim 4's genitals and Victim 4's head was at Sandusky's genitals. Sandusky would kiss Victim 4's inner thighs and genitals. Victim 4 described Sandusky rubbing his genitals on Victim 4's face and inserting his erect penis in Victim 4's mouth. There were occasions when this would result in Sandusky ejaculating.
That is a pretty rancid statement. Good post Truman

 
That last part is what has me scratching my head. How are the AD and the Senior VP of the University conducting an investigation if they don't even talk to the witness for a week and a half. And what message does that send when you call someone in for an interview ten days after they reported a heinous act?
They are not required to conduct an investigation. They're supposed to notify the police and/or social services -- but only if they have "reasonable cause" to suspect that abuse has taken place.I'm sure that Curley and Schultz are going to claim that they never had "reasonable cause" to suspect abuse. They will probably claim that McQueary downplayed what he saw in the shower.
This is not what it says in the grand jury report.
:confused: Seems to me that it's almost exactly what the report says.Curley and Schultz described it as "horsing around". They DID NOT describe it as "sexual" or "abuse".

Therefore, they must be claiming that McQueary downplayed what he saw. Otherwise, they're admitting to perjury.

 
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
Not sure why you would choose to go there with me. I haven't mentioned the Catholic Church once this entire thread. What's your point?
Because the Catholic Church did the same thing you are horrified about. In fact they covered it up for centuries and beyond. Forget it, I don't want to bicker with you about it. I generally like your posts when you are not in the Steelers threads. This is a terrible topic and it's gonna be as explosive as the Vick dog threads. If Im irritating you I'm sorry.
 
So tell us how you feel about the Catholic Church, the original Christianity.
Not sure why you would choose to go there with me. I haven't mentioned the Catholic Church once this entire thread. What's your point?
Because the Catholic Church did the same thing you are horrified about. In fact they covered it up for centuries and beyond. Forget it, I don't want to bicker with you about it. I generally like your posts when you are not in the Steelers threads. This is a terrible topic and it's gonna be as explosive as the Vick dog threads. If Im irritating you I'm sorry.
If you were familiar with my feelings about the Catholic Church you would know that I have spoken out just as strongly in the past about the way they handled their priest scandal.Both situations are equally repulsive.
 
So will the GA face charges as well? Joe Paterno? Anyone else with knowledge without telling the police going to face jail time?

 
For anyone defending Paterno is any form:

Someone on his staff goes to him and tells him he witnessed his friend and long time DC having inappropriate contact with a young boy who appeared to be 10 or so in the shower....he does not ask what was actually witnessed? He has no idea what actually happened but he considers it serious enough to report it to the AD? Is that what we are being asked to believe here?

By his own admission he was told of this inappropriate conduct in 2002, but today he is shocked?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So will the GA face charges as well? Joe Paterno? Anyone else with knowledge without telling the police going to face jail time?
The GA (Mike McQueary) testified that he reported the incident to Joe Paterno and subsequently described it to Athletic Director Tim Curley. If that's the case, then he's free and clear under Pennsyvania's "Mandatory Reporting" law.Paterno also reported it to Curley, so he would be in the clear as well.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So will the GA face charges as well? Joe Paterno? Anyone else with knowledge without telling the police going to face jail time?
My guess? They all skate (Other than Sandusky, of course) due to the fact that the children involved were not PSU students and the reporting mandate not applying. But my hope is that there is so much public outcry that every one of these pieces of garbage lose their jobs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That last part is what has me scratching my head. How are the AD and the Senior VP of the University conducting an investigation if they don't even talk to the witness for a week and a half. And what message does that send when you call someone in for an interview ten days after they reported a heinous act?
They are not required to conduct an investigation. They're supposed to notify the police and/or social services -- but only if they have "reasonable cause" to suspect that abuse has taken place.I'm sure that Curley and Schultz are going to claim that they never had "reasonable cause" to suspect abuse. They will probably claim that McQueary downplayed what he saw in the shower.
This is not what it says in the grand jury report.
Graham Spanier testified about his extensive responsibilities as President of Penn State and his educational background in sociology and marriage and family counseling.

He confirmed Curley and Schultz's respective positions of authority with the University. He testified that Curley and Schultz came to him in 2002 to report an incident with Jerry Sandusky that made a member of Curley's staff "uncomfortable" Spanier described it as "Jerry Sandusky in the football building locker area in the shower with a younger child and that they were horsing around in the shower."

Spanier testified that even in April, 2011, he did not know the identity of the staff member who had reported the behavior. Spanier denied that it was reported to him as an incident that was sexual in nature and acknowledged that Curley and Schultz had not indicated any plan to report the matter to any law enforcement authority, the Commonwealth of Pemisylvania Department of Public Welfare or any appropriate county child protective services agency. Spanier also denied being aware of a 1998 University Police investigation of Sandusky

for incidents with children in football building showers.

Department of Public Welfare and Children and Youth Services local and state records were subpoenaed by the Grand Jury; University Police records were also subpoenaed. The records reveal that the 2002 incident was never reported to any officials, in contravention of

law.
Schultz also testified that University President Spanier had been satisfied with the actions he took against Sandusky - banning him from bringing children into the locker room and notifying Second Mile of the incident. Seems Second Mile were notified by the university and parents of multiple victims and also Spanier took very little action in his role as president. The only evidence against Spanier would likely come from testimony of the AD Curley and the VP Schultz. I think from that we can see why the university is handling the legal defense.
I'd like to point out an admittedly subtle hint of a bias in the Grand Jury's report. Regarding Paterno's actions after he met with the GA, the Grand Jury's report read as follows for Victim 2 (Page 7):

"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his

home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry

Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a

young boy."

Note the unnecessary use of the word "very" (my italics above). It is a word that one would use as an advocate for Paterno. An objective writer would simply not use the word "very" and let the reader come to their own conclusion of whether the next day was a quick reaction or otherwise.

Like most anyone, Im not rooting for anything or anyone here...just for justice (or as close as we can come to it); so when I say that the sympathetic tone taken by the Grand Jury toward Paterno concerns me I dont say it b/c I want to see anything necessarily come down on Paterno. I just want an unbiased Grand Jury to help administer justice and because of that one little word ("just") my suspicions are raised that we dont have that here.

 
Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:

The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So will the GA face charges as well? Joe Paterno? Anyone else with knowledge without telling the police going to face jail time?
My linkPage 12 lays it out - the two employees (the GA and Paterno) reported it to the person running the athletic department and the senior VP charged with running the university. The latter two have a legal obligation under PA law to report the sexual assault. The way the law specifically reads, when a staff member reports or suspects abuse, the person in charge of the institution has a legal responsibility to contact the PA Dept of Public Welfare and a law enforcement agency.

 
I'd like to point out an admittedly subtle hint of a bias in the Grand Jury's report.Regarding Paterno's actions after he met with the GA, the Grand Jury's report read as follows for Victim 2 (Page 7):"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to hishome the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen JerrySandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to ayoung boy."Note the unnecessary use of the word "very" (my italics above). It is a word that one would use as an advocate for Paterno. An objective writer would simply not use the word "very" and let the reader come to their own conclusion of whether the next day was a quick reaction or otherwise.
Note that it also points out that the call was made on a Sunday, as if to say that Paterno went above and beyond the call of duty on his day off.
 
Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."
Sandusky was not an employee, but he did have emeritus status. What does that mean? An office at the football facilities, a desk, a phone, an internet account through Penn State, a parking pass, keys to all the football facilities, welcome to attend any practice or event. Much of the sexual abuse took place in the showers at the football facility. Some of took place at a golf resort hotel the team stayed the night before every home game. He ate meals with the team just as he did when he was an assistant. He and anyone in his household were given free tuition to any courses.Regardless of his official title, his retirement package from Penn State guaranteed him the same access and prestige - and probably even more of the latter - that he enjoyed when he was the DC.
 
So will the GA face charges as well? Joe Paterno? Anyone else with knowledge without telling the police going to face jail time?
My guess? They all skate (Other than Sandusky, of course) due to the fact that the children involved were not PSU students and the reporting mandate not applying. But my hope is that there is so much public outcry that every one of these pieces of garbage lose their jobs.
I feel pretty sure that will happen.
 
So will the GA face charges as well? Joe Paterno? Anyone else with knowledge without telling the police going to face jail time?
My linkPage 12 lays it out - the two employees (the GA and Paterno) reported it to the person running the athletic department and the senior VP charged with running the university. The latter two have a legal obligation under PA law to report the sexual assault. The way the law specifically reads, when a staff member reports or suspects abuse, the person in charge of the institution has a legal responsibility to contact the PA Dept of Public Welfare and a law enforcement agency.
weird that they don't have to report directly to police
 
Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."
Sandusky was not an employee, but he did have emeritus status. What does that mean? An office at the football facilities, a desk, a phone, an internet account through Penn State, a parking pass, keys to all the football facilities, welcome to attend any practice or event. Much of the sexual abuse took place in the showers at the football facility. Some of took place at a golf resort hotel the team stayed the night before every home game. He ate meals with the team just as he did when he was an assistant. He and anyone in his household were given free tuition to any courses.Regardless of his official title, his retirement package from Penn State guaranteed him the same access and prestige - and probably even more of the latter - that he enjoyed when he was the DC.
The lawyer is talking about Schultz, not Sandusky. His argument is that Schultz is a PSU employee and the child was a Second Mile child, not a PSU child.
 
I'd like to point out an admittedly subtle hint of a bias in the Grand Jury's report.Regarding Paterno's actions after he met with the GA, the Grand Jury's report read as follows for Victim 2 (Page 7):"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to hishome the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen JerrySandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to ayoung boy."Note the unnecessary use of the word "very" (my italics above). It is a word that one would use as an advocate for Paterno. An objective writer would simply not use the word "very" and let the reader come to their own conclusion of whether the next day was a quick reaction or otherwise.
Note that it also points out that the call was made on a Sunday, as if to say that Paterno went above and beyond the call of duty on his day off.
Yes, you're reading my mind. I had (finally) noticed that as well a minute ago. :(
 
I'd like to point out an admittedly subtle hint of a bias in the Grand Jury's report.Regarding Paterno's actions after he met with the GA, the Grand Jury's report read as follows for Victim 2 (Page 7):"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to hishome the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen JerrySandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to ayoung boy."Note the unnecessary use of the word "very" (my italics above). It is a word that one would use as an advocate for Paterno. An objective writer would simply not use the word "very" and let the reader come to their own conclusion of whether the next day was a quick reaction or otherwise.
Note that it also points out that the call was made on a Sunday, as if to say that Paterno went above and beyond the call of duty on his day off.
Yeah, we were debating that on another board. The Grand Jury summary and the statements by the AG seem to praise Paterno more than you would think. So the question becomes is the AG/Grand Jury star struck? Or do they know something we don't? Remember, the statement we have is a summary. It isn't a transcript of everything said or every piece of evidence. That would happen at a trial.
 
Like most anyone, Im not rooting for anything or anyone here...just for justice (or as close as we can come to it); so when I say that the sympathetic tone taken by the Grand Jury toward Paterno concerns me I dont say it b/c I want to see anything necessarily come down on Paterno. I just want an unbiased Grand Jury to help administer justice and because of that one little word ("just") my suspicions are raised that we dont have that here.
Grand Jury presentments are by their very nature biased. They are allowed and even encouraged that sort of latitude. A Grand Jury is a special creature with a specific purpose, and justice is not it. It's a moot point - it's all inadmissible at trial.Don't confuse Grand Jury testimony with what is kosher for a trial jury.
 
Like most anyone, Im not rooting for anything or anyone here...just for justice (or as close as we can come to it); so when I say that the sympathetic tone taken by the Grand Jury toward Paterno concerns me I dont say it b/c I want to see anything necessarily come down on Paterno. I just want an unbiased Grand Jury to help administer justice and because of that one little word ("just") my suspicions are raised that we dont have that here.
Grand Jury presentments are by their very nature biased. They are allowed and even encouraged that sort of latitude. A Grand Jury is a special creature with a specific purpose, and justice is not it. It's a moot point - it's all inadmissible at trial.Don't confuse Grand Jury testimony with what is kosher for a trial jury.
Plus the level of certainty is less than for a trial, correct? No beyond a reasonable doubt?
 
Sandusky is obviously a very sick individual who couldn't help himself. What's Paterno's excuse? They both deserve the death penalty.

 
The grand jury can compel a witness to testify. The target of a grand jury investigation has no right to testify or put on a defense before the grand jury.

Grand jury proceedings are held in secret.

A judge is not present during deliberations.

etc etc etc

It's probably worth noting every country in the world has abolished Grand Jury proceedings.

Except one.

 
Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:

The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."
I had a hunch that Curley and Schultz would take this route (and it would explain why the PSU president is backing them).However, I think Schultz' lawyer is trying to split hairs here. This is (apparently) the full text of the relevant law. It doesn't say anything about the "care and supervision of the organization for which he works". It just says that if you come across a kid being abused as part of your job, you have to report it.

Besides, I think you can make a strong argument that these "Second Mile" kids WERE, ultimately, under the care and supervision of Penn State.

 
Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."
Sandusky was not an employee, but he did have emeritus status. What does that mean? An office at the football facilities, a desk, a phone, an internet account through Penn State, a parking pass, keys to all the football facilities, welcome to attend any practice or event. Much of the sexual abuse took place in the showers at the football facility. Some of took place at a golf resort hotel the team stayed the night before every home game. He ate meals with the team just as he did when he was an assistant. He and anyone in his household were given free tuition to any courses.Regardless of his official title, his retirement package from Penn State guaranteed him the same access and prestige - and probably even more of the latter - that he enjoyed when he was the DC.
The lawyer is talking about Schultz, not Sandusky. His argument is that Schultz is a PSU employee and the child was a Second Mile child, not a PSU child.
Well, I'm sure if this had happened at a high school football camp held on the campus of Penn State, that wouldn't fly. Seems pretty flimsy.I think the lawyers are just throwing crap at the wall to see what will stick. The goal is to obfuscate.
 
Like most anyone, Im not rooting for anything or anyone here...just for justice (or as close as we can come to it); so when I say that the sympathetic tone taken by the Grand Jury toward Paterno concerns me I dont say it b/c I want to see anything necessarily come down on Paterno. I just want an unbiased Grand Jury to help administer justice and because of that one little word ("just") my suspicions are raised that we dont have that here.
Grand Jury presentments are by their very nature biased. They are allowed and even encouraged that sort of latitude. A Grand Jury is a special creature with a specific purpose, and justice is not it. It's a moot point - it's all inadmissible at trial.Don't confuse Grand Jury testimony with what is kosher for a trial jury.
You obviously know more about these things than I do so thanks for that clarification. Notwithstanding your reply above, I'd like to ask you if you think that the inference that the Grand Jury is biased in favor of Paterno is relevant or not? I'd submit that it is relevant in the discussion because of the use of the Grand Jury report as the closest-version-of-fact that we have by the witnesses themselves, the attorneys involved and the media. When someone quotes it, they are usually wise enough to say "if these allegations are true...then...(fill in the blank for their conclusion)". But those that cite the report never qualify it as a potentially personally biased source. If it is, then the report should not be used as a weapon in defense or not of Paterno and others as it has been. And I'd submit that there are indications that it is "personally biased" (my term).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's what Schultz's lawyer is already saying:The law "applies only to children under the care and supervision of the organization for which he works, and that's Penn State, it's not The Second Mile," Farrell said of his client. "This child, from what we know, was a Second Mile child."
Sandusky was not an employee, but he did have emeritus status. What does that mean? An office at the football facilities, a desk, a phone, an internet account through Penn State, a parking pass, keys to all the football facilities, welcome to attend any practice or event. Much of the sexual abuse took place in the showers at the football facility. Some of took place at a golf resort hotel the team stayed the night before every home game. He ate meals with the team just as he did when he was an assistant. He and anyone in his household were given free tuition to any courses.Regardless of his official title, his retirement package from Penn State guaranteed him the same access and prestige - and probably even more of the latter - that he enjoyed when he was the DC.
The lawyer is talking about Schultz, not Sandusky. His argument is that Schultz is a PSU employee and the child was a Second Mile child, not a PSU child.
Well, I'm sure if this had happened at a high school football camp held on the campus of Penn State, that wouldn't fly. Seems pretty flimsy.I think the lawyers are just throwing crap at the wall to see what will stick. The goal is to obfuscate.
Which is why so many people hate lawyers.
 
Like most anyone, Im not rooting for anything or anyone here...just for justice (or as close as we can come to it); so when I say that the sympathetic tone taken by the Grand Jury toward Paterno concerns me I dont say it b/c I want to see anything necessarily come down on Paterno. I just want an unbiased Grand Jury to help administer justice and because of that one little word ("just") my suspicions are raised that we dont have that here.
Grand Jury presentments are by their very nature biased. They are allowed and even encouraged that sort of latitude. A Grand Jury is a special creature with a specific purpose, and justice is not it. It's a moot point - it's all inadmissible at trial.Don't confuse Grand Jury testimony with what is kosher for a trial jury.
You obviously know more about these things than I do so thanks for that clarification. Notwithstanding your reply above, I'd like to ask you if you think that the inference that the Grand Jury is biased in favor of Paterno is relevant or not? I'd submit that it is relevant in the discussion because of the use of the Grand Jury report as the closest-version-of-fact that we have by the witnesses themselves, the attorneys involved and the media. When someone quotes it, they are usually wise enough to say "if these allegations are true...then...(fill in the blank for their conclusion)". But those that cite the report never qualify it as a potentially personally biased source. If it is, then the report should not be used as a weapon in defense or not of Paterno and others as it has been. And I'd submit that there are indications that it is "personally biased" (my term).
:shrug: No clue, not a lawyer. I know a little about Grand Jury proceedings from having a staff member sit on one.My understanding (and one of the many FFA lawyers will correct me if I'm wrong) is none of this is relevant other than bringing an indictment. From here onward, the evidence will be presented anew at trial. Any testimony from the Grand Jury is hearsay and cannot be presented.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top