Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (2 Viewers)

[pittstownkiller]

I'm just highlighting the absurdity of the hyperbole in this thread. Next Fatness will be saying Paterno recruited kids for Sandusky to abuse. Oh wait, he kind of already did.

Show me that.

"Helped".

Are you a moron? I know you are a fan of child rapist enablers, but when I say help, I dont mean that Paterno played GI Joe with the boys before driving them over to Sandusky's, although he may have well as done that. I mean he kept that scum on the street with access to Second Mile and PSU facilities. Are you an idiot or just mildly returded?

Way to clear that up Todd; thanks.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Nothing really new in the summary, basically what was leaked/suspected. I probably won't read the full 267 page report.

Yeah, seems that way. The summary said that the complete 2001 emails would be on the website -- I might read those.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Full report

 

[Furious Styles]

The statue must come down

 

[yellowdog]

The statue must come down

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Nothing really new in the summary, basically what was leaked/suspected. I probably won't read the full 267 page report.

Yeah, seems that way. The summary said that the complete 2001 emails would be on the website -- I might read those.

The timeline at the beginning is well written. I'm thinking I might read the whole thing now.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.

they won't get it, but they deserve it.

And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

 

[Smack Tripper]

The statue must come down

Auction it off and give the proceeds to the victims.

 

[Mello]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

 

[hammerva]

I don't know how many students from the Middle East go to Penn State but I want them to tear down the statue. They are experts at destroying memorials for phony prophets and leaders.

 

[Dragons]

Nothing really new in the summary, basically what was leaked/suspected. I probably won't read the full 267 page report.

Yeah, seems that way. The summary said that the complete 2001 emails would be on the website -- I might read those.

The timeline at the beginning is well written. I'm thinking I might read the whole thing now.

I read the timeline as well. It's definitely worth reading.

 

[Dragons]

Can't seem to C&P, but the 2nd footnote on page 51 is sickening.

I'll type it out:

Penn State officials were familiar with the issues of liability that could arise from Sandusky bringing minors to the Lasch Building. For example, notes maintained by Paterno reflect that Sandusky proposed several continuing connections with Penn State when he retired in 1999. Among those connections was that he would have continuing "[a]ccess to training and workout facilities." A handwritten note on this proposal reads: "Is this for personal use or 2nd Mile kids. No to 2nd Mile. Liability problems." Exhibit 2-G

 

[RUSF18]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

They'd be showing that the "Too Big to Fail" mentality is applicable to other situations.

 

[identikit]

The statue must come down

Auction it off and give the proceeds to the victims.

Whoever 'wins' it should melt it down.

 

[Mello]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

They'd be showing that the "Too Big to Fail" mentality is applicable to other situations.

I would say the same thing no matter how big the university was.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

Football players can go elsewhere. How exactly would the students and fans be screwed over? Is football in Happy Valley a right? Does PSU exist to field a football team?Seems to me the pervasive view that PSU football was more important than the university is what created the problems in the first place.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

This exactly type of thinking is how this thing happened and went unchecked for so long. Penn State is not alone in letting a football machine grow too big to fail, thats quite common in American collegiate sports, and it certainly can extend to mens basketball too. But I've never heard, and really can't imagine a worse scenario of criminal conduct being covered up than something like this. Screwing over innocent people? Sorry, those are not the screwed innocent people that I'm thinking about with this. I would petition the NCAA to allow a penalty free transfer for all athletes.As it stands, its borderline sociopathic to me for that fan base to walk past that man's statue and put 100,000 people in Beaver Stadium and cheer on Saturday's in the fall.My thinking is, that sort of acknowledgement would demonstrate to the victims, and, frankly, America, that you understood the gravity of this situation and realize football is NOT the most important thing in this life. But I guess asking to take one season of 8-2 football off is simply too big a sacrafice.

 

[Dragons]

One thing the speculation was wrong about (Page 55):

The Special Investigative Counsel found no evidence to indicate that Sandusky's retirement was related to the police investigation of him in 1998.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

I had thought Sandusky's abrupt retirement and the allegations of sexual abuse were related, but the report indicates that they weren't. It was just because Sandusky got passed over as Paterno's heir.

ETA: Dragons is a few pages ahead of me in the report, apparently.

 

[The_Man]

This is going to leave a mark - and should:

"It is more reasonable to conclude that, in order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at Penn State University – Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley – repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse from the authorities, the Board of Trustees, Penn State community, and the public at large. Although concern to treat the child abuser humanely was expressly stated, no such sentiments were ever expressed by them for Sandusky's victims."

 

[Dragons]

I had thought Sandusky's abrupt retirement and the allegations of sexual abuse were related, but the report indicates that they weren't. It was just because Sandusky got passed over as Paterno's heir.ETA: Dragons is a few pages ahead of me in the report, apparently.

I'm skimming.

 

[RUSF18]

Charles Robinson ‏@CharlesRobinsonEverything is offically in play now for Penn State. This report opens the door for all manner of sanctioning - criminal, civil & NCAA alike.

For those who don't know/remember, Robinson is the lead investigator for Yahoo that reported on Miami (and I believe USC).

 

[Sinn Fein]

Can't seem to C&P, but the 2nd footnote on page 51 is sickening.I'll type it outenn State officials were familiar with the issues of liability that could arise from Sandusky bringing minors to the Lasch Building. For example, notes maintained by Paterno reflect that Sandusky proposed several continuing connections with Penn State when he retired in 1999. Among those connections was that he would have continuing "[a]ccess to training and workout facilities." A handwritten note on this proposal reads: "Is this for personal use or 2nd Mile kids. No to 2nd Mile. Liability problems." Exhibit 2-G

I would assume this simply refers to potential injury liability for kids in the workout facility. Without more, I don't see this as assuming liability for sexual assault.

 

[Dragons]

Can't seem to C&P, but the 2nd footnote on page 51 is sickening.I'll type it outenn State officials were familiar with the issues of liability that could arise from Sandusky bringing minors to the Lasch Building. For example, notes maintained by Paterno reflect that Sandusky proposed several continuing connections with Penn State when he retired in 1999. Among those connections was that he would have continuing "[a]ccess to training and workout facilities." A handwritten note on this proposal reads: "Is this for personal use or 2nd Mile kids. No to 2nd Mile. Liability problems." Exhibit 2-G

I would assume this simply refers to potential injury liability for kids in the workout facility. Without more, I don't see this as assuming liability for sexual assault.

Taken all on it's own, that's a valid interpretation. But, we know Paterno knew about the 1998 incident.

 

[Sea Duck]

On a more serious note, great article here.

Great article, summed up best by the following paragraph:

"Short of turning up a memo, written in his handwriting on personalized letterhead and stamped by a notary public, saying, "Hey, Graham and Tim, I'm OK with Jerry raping little boys as long as it doesn't make the press," the Freeh report will likely leave a lot of Penn State minds unchanged.

On a totally unrelated note...

"No to 2nd Mile. Liability problems"

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Can't seem to C&P, but the 2nd footnote on page 51 is sickening.I'll type it outenn State officials were familiar with the issues of liability that could arise from Sandusky bringing minors to the Lasch Building. For example, notes maintained by Paterno reflect that Sandusky proposed several continuing connections with Penn State when he retired in 1999. Among those connections was that he would have continuing "[a]ccess to training and workout facilities." A handwritten note on this proposal reads: "Is this for personal use or 2nd Mile kids. No to 2nd Mile. Liability problems." Exhibit 2-G

I would assume this simply refers to potential injury liability for kids in the workout facility. Without more, I don't see this as assuming liability for sexual assault.

Taken all on it's own, that's a valid interpretation. But, we know Paterno knew about the 1998 incident.

The 1998 incident that didn't lead to an arrest. In 1999 taken by itself, I don't necessarily believe the inference is there. In 2001 the 1998 incident takes on new meaning because now there is another point of reference for Joe and others to believe Jerry may actually have committed these acts. Fool me once etc.

 

[Mello]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

Football players can go elsewhere. How exactly would the students and fans be screwed over? Is football in Happy Valley a right? Does PSU exist to field a football team?Seems to me the pervasive view that PSU football was more important than the university is what created the problems in the first place.

Football players can go elsewhere, but I'm sure most don't want to. They signed up to both play football and get an education at PSU. As far as the students and fans, for me, going to football games was a fun part of the college experience. If the program were given the death penalty, there wouldn't be football in Happy Valley for at least a year. I know if I was a fan or a current student at PSU, I wouldn't be happy if the team was shut down. Does PSU exist to field a football team? Not primarily, but having a football team is part of the major college package in this country. I'd agree that protecting the program was a major cause of the problem, but the football program itself didn't cause that. Individuals in charge of running things at the university are the ones that made mistakes and every single one of them should be punished. I don't see why the program needs to be shut down though. Just seems like a knee jerk reaction to make a group of people that "want blood" feel better.

 

[Abraham]

Not sure a "death penalty!" lynchmob is needed, but I think this is far and away the worst thing that has ever been associated with an athletic program. Not sure how that is to be dealt with as there is no precedent. Maybe make PSU give all of its bowl winnings for the next 20 years to an organization that counsels/helps young victims of sexual abuse? Even though the responsible parties are gone, the institution itself was an environment where this manipulation and transgression was at best possible and at worst condoned. There simply has to be some sort of punitive acknowledgement of that.

 

[RUSF18]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

Football players can go elsewhere. How exactly would the students and fans be screwed over? Is football in Happy Valley a right? Does PSU exist to field a football team?Seems to me the pervasive view that PSU football was more important than the university is what created the problems in the first place.

Football players can go elsewhere, but I'm sure most don't want to. They signed up to both play football and get an education at PSU. As far as the students and fans, for me, going to football games was a fun part of the college experience. If the program were given the death penalty, there wouldn't be football in Happy Valley for at least a year. I know if I was a fan or a current student at PSU, I wouldn't be happy if the team was shut down. Does PSU exist to field a football team? Not primarily, but having a football team is part of the major college package in this country. I'd agree that protecting the program was a major cause of the problem, but the football program itself didn't cause that. Individuals in charge of running things at the university are the ones that made mistakes and every single one of them should be punished. I don't see why the program needs to be shut down though. Just seems like a knee jerk reaction to make a group of people that "want blood" feel better.

I completely disagree with virtually everything you said, but I'll only say this: watching how the students/fans/alumni reacted at the time of the incident reports, at Paterno's firing, and how they have continued to act and be in denial (speaking broadly of course), all of them not being "happy" would be a great, well-deserved result.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Football players can go elsewhere, but I'm sure most don't want to. They signed up to both play football and get an education at PSU. As far as the students and fans, for me, going to football games was a fun part of the college experience. If the program were given the death penalty, there wouldn't be football in Happy Valley for at least a year. I know if I was a fan or a current student at PSU, I wouldn't be happy if the team was shut down. Does PSU exist to field a football team? Not primarily, but having a football team is part of the major college package in this country. I'd agree that protecting the program was a major cause of the problem, but the football program itself didn't cause that. Individuals in charge of running things at the university are the ones that made mistakes and every single one of them should be punished. I don't see why the program needs to be shut down though. Just seems like a knee jerk reaction to make a group of people that "want blood" feel better.

I'm still reading the report but page 65 talks about the janitors that observed Sandusky with boys in the showers after hours and how they chose not to report it because of a fear that they would lose their jobs. They said stuff like "football rules the university." Killing the football program, at least temporarily, would seemingly be an attempt to change this mentality on campus.ETA -- footnote w that starts on the same page also talks about the special treatment for football on campus.

 

[CrossEyed]

So how does this not bring Corbett into the picture from the standpoint of legal liability? He was the AG when this all started. He was aware of the accusations and investigation. Then he was on the board. So how can they say that the board was unaware, and didn't Corbett have a responsibility to inform the board of what he knew?

 

[CrossEyed]

Not sure a "death penalty!" lynchmob is needed, but I think this is far and away the worst thing that has ever been associated with an athletic program. Not sure how that is to be dealt with as there is no precedent. Maybe make PSU give all of its bowl winnings for the next 20 years to an organization that counsels/helps young victims of sexual abuse? Even though the responsible parties are gone, the institution itself was an environment where this manipulation and transgression was at best possible and at worst condoned. There simply has to be some sort of punitive acknowledgement of that.

The ONLY thing that will change the "football rules" mentality is to take away football for a time. Penalizing PSU with a fine will change nothing, imo.

 

[Sand]

Death Penalty. Death Penalty. Death Penalty.they won't get it, but they deserve it. And if they won't they should euthanize themselves for a year or two.

I don't get this line of thinking. All the people responsible should be punished and shamed, but there's no reason to screw over the football players, current students, and fans by taking away the football program. That's just punishing a lot of other people that had nothing to do with this.

Football players can go elsewhere. How exactly would the students and fans be screwed over? Is football in Happy Valley a right? Does PSU exist to field a football team?Seems to me the pervasive view that PSU football was more important than the university is what created the problems in the first place.

Not just lack of institutional control, but strong institutional control in the coverup. Seems the most appropriate response to this would be to shut the program down for a couple years. There needs to be a reminder that football does not make a school.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

 

[CrossEyed]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

As soon as their oversized role leads to repeated coverup of criminal activities, I'll agree with you.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

So how does this not bring Corbett into the picture from the standpoint of legal liability? He was the AG when this all started. He was aware of the accusations and investigation. Then he was on the board. So how can they say that the board was unaware, and didn't Corbett have a responsibility to inform the board of what he knew?

Now, I'd be for a PSU death penalty if it got Corb out of office.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

As soon as their oversized role leads to repeated coverup of criminal activities, I'll agree with you.

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Shultz, Spanier, Curley and Paterno all looking really really bad in this report.

 

[hammerva]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

You are not trying to compare hiding a child sexual abuse case to kids taking money under the table are you? There hasn't been anything in college football this bad. Even SMU in the 80's which got the death penalty (deservedly so) was nothing compared to this.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

You are not trying to compare hiding a child sexual abuse case to kids taking money under the table are you? There hasn't been anything in college football this bad. Even SMU in the 80's which got the death penalty (deservedly so) was nothing compared to this.

I think his point is that if this type of football environment is what created the ability to cover up these types of incidents, then similar environments should be eliminated (not the death penalty, but taking away power some how) so that other incidents (criminal and otherwise but not limited to sex abuse or money) are not given a place to fester.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

You are not trying to compare hiding a child sexual abuse case to kids taking money under the table are you? There hasn't been anything in college football this bad. Even SMU in the 80's which got the death penalty (deservedly so) was nothing compared to this.

I'm not comparing anything. I'm just commenting on the reactions in this thread. People are saying that, in addition to punishing culpable parties, the football program should be shut down at least temporarily in an attempt to change the culture at Penn State. But that same culture exists at a lot of other universities. Penn State was just the only one (hopefully) that was unfortunate enough to have a pedophile take advantage of that culture to prey on kids. If your view is that the culture at Penn State needs to be changed, then it seems to follow that the culture also needs to change at all comparable schools.

 

[TLEF316]

"but all of paterno players graduated"- pretty much every Penn State fan I know

 

[Borat]

If the people of Pennsylvania have any class whatsoever, they will march to that campus and tear that statue down. Joe Paterno is a disgrace and his family should be ashamed.

 

[E-Z Glider]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses.

Pretty sick that something like this turns into a schadenfreude orgy for the PSU haters.

 

[Phil Elliott]

I haven't read the details of the report but it seems this is potentially a big liability (legal actions) to the viability of the entire school and not "just" the football program (even as large a part of the school that football plays). Not saying the school is dissolved but diminished significantly/somewhat. Probably taking a "Chicken Little" perspective but the story keeps getting worse and not better.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses.

Pretty sick that something like this turns into a schadenfreude orgy for the PSU haters.

Might not want to use the word "orgy."

 

[Godsbrother]

If the people of Pennsylvania have any class whatsoever, they will march to that campus and tear that statue down. Joe Paterno is a disgrace and his family should be ashamed.

If I march 150 miles to Happy Valley I'll be too tired to tear the statue down. Can I take the bus instead?

 

[CrossEyed]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

As soon as their oversized role leads to repeated coverup of criminal activities, I'll agree with you.

If these places are problems just waiting to happen, it doesn't seem like we should wait to hear about all the bad stuff before taking steps.

The right step, imo, is to come down HARD on those who are caught. Kill a program (temporarily) like PSU and you send a powerful message to all other universities.

 

[hammerva]

There does seem to be a bit of disingenuousness here among fans of other football powerhouses. If Penn State should shut down its program due to its outsized role on campus, then so should Alabama and Ohio State and Tennessee and pretty much every big football program.

You are not trying to compare hiding a child sexual abuse case to kids taking money under the table are you? There hasn't been anything in college football this bad. Even SMU in the 80's which got the death penalty (deservedly so) was nothing compared to this.

I'm not comparing anything. I'm just commenting on the reactions in this thread. People are saying that, in addition to punishing culpable parties, the football program should be shut down at least temporarily in an attempt to change the culture at Penn State. But that same culture exists at a lot of other universities. Penn State was just the only one (hopefully) that was unfortunate enough to have a pedophile take advantage of that culture to prey on kids. If your view is that the culture at Penn State needs to be changed, then it seems to follow that the culture also needs to change at all comparable schools.

Oh I am not naive to think that other major colleges wouldn't have had the same issues. I mean if guy like paterno can turn a blind eye to it then people we know are shady as hell would do the same. I just think that if the NCAA has even a smidge of respect (which I doubt they do), they treat this much much worse then they did for things like Ohio State, Florida State, Miami, or probably USC.

 

[The Commish]

There's a potential for good discussion here if we could get away from the hyperbole. The question should be around where is the line drawn? When you find a problem with a product you have to figure out the source of the problem. It's either people, or materials. If it's people, you remove them from the equation and replace them with better people and move on. Same with materials. You only scrap the whole product if you can't overcome the people/materials problems you hit.