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Jets sign Andre Dyson (1 Viewer)

TLEF316

Footballguy
nope. hopefully this sends barrett to the bench. give miller a shot on the other side

 
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Z-Dog

Footballguy
Bradway wanted Dyson last year, and he got away and went to Seattle.

More importantly than comparing to Badway, this also means that the Jets are unlikely to draft a CB at all. Dyson is 26, and they have young guys in Barrett, Miller and Strait on the roster as well.

Also, if Barrett can play as well as he did in '04, Dyson or Miller will ride the pine in '06.

 

Rovers

Footballguy
This was an almost "must" signing for the Jets. Behind Barrett and Miller, there was Strait.... and I don't like that look at all. No depth. Miller is still green, but he won't hace to deal with that blasted cover 2 D anymore, which should help. Barrett is inconsistant. Strait is more a nickel back.

I wonder why Dyson was this cheap, in an era where CB's are getting top dollar. I know he missed games, in two different strecthes in 2005, but don't recall those injuries as being of the real serious sort.... any Hawks fans know?

If he can return to his previous form, while with the Titans, he's a steal. The fact that both of his old teams did try to sign him is a good omen. The Jets can now lower CB on their needs list for this draft... too bad we didn't get Runyan.

 

Z-Dog

Footballguy
I'm pleased we didn't get Runyan. Maybe it's just that Strahan owns him every year, and as a New Yorker, I see a lot of that, but I just feel like at 33 years old, he's overrated. I'd rather wait until after the 6/1 cuts for someone, and then draft a T in the 3rd-4th round, and hope that one of those two guys, or Marco Cavka, steps up.

 

Rovers

Footballguy
I'm pleased we didn't get Runyan. Maybe it's just that Strahan owns him every year, and as a New Yorker, I see a lot of that, but I just feel like at 33 years old, he's overrated. I'd rather wait until after the 6/1 cuts for someone, and then draft a T in the 3rd-4th round, and hope that one of those two guys, or Marco Cavka, steps up.
Runyan would have bought us a year at RT. Now, at a minimum, we need a center and a RT. Not a bad year to be drafting O linemen, but starting two rookies could get ugly. Of course, it's going to be ugly this year anyway, but there's one bag ugly and two bag ugly. Forget Cavka.... if being assigned to NFL Europe wan't enough to convince you he's history, maybe the fact that he couldn't even crack the starting lineup over there will put the Cavka question to rest. He's a second stringer in NFL EUROPE!

 

Z-Dog

Footballguy
I'm pleased we didn't get Runyan. Maybe it's just that Strahan owns him every year, and as a New Yorker, I see a lot of that, but I just feel like at 33 years old, he's overrated. I'd rather wait until after the 6/1 cuts for someone, and then draft a T in the 3rd-4th round, and hope that one of those two guys, or Marco Cavka, steps up.
Runyan would have bought us a year at RT. Now, at a minimum, we need a center and a RT. Not a bad year to be drafting O linemen, but starting two rookies could get ugly. Of course, it's going to be ugly this year anyway, but there's one bag ugly and two bag ugly. Forget Cavka.... if being assigned to NFL Europe wan't enough to convince you he's history, maybe the fact that he couldn't even crack the starting lineup over there will put the Cavka question to rest. He's a second stringer in NFL EUROPE!
Fair enough - I haven't been following Cavka's NFLE career. Of course, he may not be all the way back from injury either. I still think we'll wind up with a Scott Gragg type at RT, or possibly even Orlando Brown, and some mid-round rookie. We also don't need a center since the team has decided to start Kendall at C.
 

Rovers

Footballguy
I'm pleased we didn't get Runyan. Maybe it's just that Strahan owns him every year, and as a New Yorker, I see a lot of that, but I just feel like at 33 years old, he's overrated. I'd rather wait until after the 6/1 cuts for someone, and then draft a T in the 3rd-4th round, and hope that one of those two guys, or Marco Cavka, steps up.
Runyan would have bought us a year at RT. Now, at a minimum, we need a center and a RT. Not a bad year to be drafting O linemen, but starting two rookies could get ugly. Of course, it's going to be ugly this year anyway, but there's one bag ugly and two bag ugly. Forget Cavka.... if being assigned to NFL Europe wan't enough to convince you he's history, maybe the fact that he couldn't even crack the starting lineup over there will put the Cavka question to rest. He's a second stringer in NFL EUROPE!
Fair enough - I haven't been following Cavka's NFLE career. Of course, he may not be all the way back from injury either. I still think we'll wind up with a Scott Gragg type at RT, or possibly even Orlando Brown, and some mid-round rookie. We also don't need a center since the team has decided to start Kendall at C.
Mangini has been hinting at some things with the press lately.... and one of the things he said was that they plan on starting Kendall at guard, where is is MUCH better than he is at center. When asked who would be at center, he gave a wink-wink, nod-nod answer. There is the dark horse, Norm Katnik, the starting center for USC in 2004, signed off the SF taxi squad, and then the Jets are in a a position to get Mangold in the draft. Degory and Cook are other options. I still think the way they aggressively persued Runyan tells me they want to go with a big, run blocking RT. The Jets O line has been on the smallish side for a long time, which was great for pulling and running sweeps for Martin, but plain awful in short and goal. I think mangini is looking for a big physical O line, ala Pittsburgh, to wear down and physically dominate opponents. Just my best guess though, but I do think the way they went after Runyan tipped their hand some.

 

Bri

Footballguy
I wonder why Dyson was this cheap, in an era where CB's are getting top dollar.
CB Market is swinging.Amidst the Brian Williams articles was that there's a 2 mil difference between top 5 this year and last year
 

Reaper

Footballguy
I'm pleased we didn't get Runyan. Maybe it's just that Strahan owns him every year, and as a New Yorker, I see a lot of that, but I just feel like at 33 years old, he's overrated. I'd rather wait until after the 6/1 cuts for someone, and then draft a T in the 3rd-4th round, and hope that one of those two guys, or Marco Cavka, steps up.
Runyan would have bought us a year at RT. Now, at a minimum, we need a center and a RT. Not a bad year to be drafting O linemen, but starting two rookies could get ugly. Of course, it's going to be ugly this year anyway, but there's one bag ugly and two bag ugly. Forget Cavka.... if being assigned to NFL Europe wan't enough to convince you he's history, maybe the fact that he couldn't even crack the starting lineup over there will put the Cavka question to rest. He's a second stringer in NFL EUROPE!
Fair enough - I haven't been following Cavka's NFLE career. Of course, he may not be all the way back from injury either. I still think we'll wind up with a Scott Gragg type at RT, or possibly even Orlando Brown, and some mid-round rookie. We also don't need a center since the team has decided to start Kendall at C.
Mangini has been hinting at some things with the press lately.... and one of the things he said was that they plan on starting Kendall at guard, where is is MUCH better than he is at center. When asked who would be at center, he gave a wink-wink, nod-nod answer. There is the dark horse, Norm Katnik, the starting center for USC in 2004, signed off the SF taxi squad, and then the Jets are in a a position to get Mangold in the draft. Degory and Cook are other options. I still think the way they aggressively persued Runyan tells me they want to go with a big, run blocking RT. The Jets O line has been on the smallish side for a long time, which was great for pulling and running sweeps for Martin, but plain awful in short and goal. I think mangini is looking for a big physical O line, ala Pittsburgh, to wear down and physically dominate opponents. Just my best guess though, but I do think the way they went after Runyan tipped their hand some.
Check out this article on OL's and how the draft prospects match up system wise..http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/OLSchemes.cfm

Zone Blocking in the NFL

& the Effect on 2006 Offensive Linemen Draft Boards

Writen by J. Hanley

last updated: 03/29/06

Two draftable linemen: One for a zone scheme, the other for a man?

There are several teams in the NFL who use the zone-blocking scheme exclusively, and several more that use some elements of it. This can have a big impact on those team's draft boards, as it relates to offensive linemen. Denver, Atlanta, Houston and Washington use this scheme either exclusively or predominantly. There are other teams that use it as well, but in situational circumstances, or at least use some elements of it. Then there are teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City and Seattle who use a man, power blocking scheme very successfully. In short, man blocking relies on a power game, and often power running backs will be successful in it. It is a very week to week, game plan oriented scheme that adjusts to that week's opponent. Zone blocking is a system that changes little from week to week, and uses faster, more athletic offensive linemen. In a zone blocking scheme, the entire unit slants, or moves in one direction on a given play. As the offensive line moves laterally, the defense tries to move with it, with each defensive linemen attempting to stay in his gap assignment. The offensive linemen will then block whatever defender is in his zone, be it a lineman, linebacker, or even a safety that has moved into the box. These O linemen most often use the cut back block, which basically means going low on the defender, and the hook block, getting under the defender's pads to get him off balance. Quickness is more important than brute power. On a running play, the RB looks for a gap to open, and often cuts back against the flow of the offensive line when it appears. Cutback RB's like Dunn do well in this system, while power RB's like Duckett tend to struggle more, not having the agility to take advantage of hitting an opening when it appears. In a power blocking man scheme, the RB runs to the hole that should be there, based on the play call. This tends to suit the power RB's better.

This is a gross oversimplification of zone blocking, but is a needed precursor to understand why zone blocking teams need faster, more athletic, quick on their feet linemen, as opposed to the traditional "road grader" types. Size, while hardly being the only consideration, plays a big part. Generally, the bigger the O linemen, the less agile and athletic he is. Comparing four teams, two that use zone, and two that use a power man scheme, the average size of the Denver and Atlanta offensive lines are 298 and 301 pounds, respectively. Pittsburgh and Kansas City's offensive lines come in at 314 and 311. Don't expect Marcus McNiell or Max Jean-Gilles to be at the top of Denver's draft board, but a player like Greg Eslinger, who played in a zone scheme at Minnesota could be higher on their draft board than Nick Mangold, and can plan their draft accordingly.

When looking for players to fit a zone blocking scheme, some workout numbers become more important: the short shuttle and 3 cone drills. Faster, more agile and athletic linemen are what teams like Denver look for. Taking some combine and pro day numbers into account, we attempt to separate the power man blockers from the pure zone blockers and note which prospects we see as "tweeners…. those who have the tools to play in either system.

DD.com Editor's note: There are variations of OL draft strategy across the league - certain teams such as San Diego, Denver, Tampa Bay and Atlanta (who has legendary OL coach Alex Gibbs) tend to take OL late in the draft and prefer to do so as it lowers expectations as the players develop. Other teams often use first day picks on the position, such as Philadelphia, Seattle and Pittsburgh.

Based on their college performances and some measurables from the combine and pro day workouts, this is where the offensive linemen in the 2006 would fit best, scheme-wise into the NFL.

The POWER Linemen:

Marcus McNeill, Auburn, 6-8/336, Tackle: The classic road grader tackle. His 5.07 short shuttle says he is a bad fit for zone blocking, but for power running teams, he's at the top of the list of RT's.

Max Jean-Gilles, Georgia, 6-4/343, Guard: His combine agility numbers were poor, but he had 31 reps on the bench. Some say he's out of shape we are talking about a player who has been over 320 pounds since he was 18. The closest thing to Larry Allen since Larry Allen.

Duece Latui, USC, 6-4/334, Guard: Like Gilles, poor agility numbers, but I would not want to be between him and a buffet. Road grader, power blocker.

Charles Spencer, Pitt, 6-5/352, Guard: This draft is deep with power blocking guards. Three of them to be exact. Many zone blocking guards tend to be mobile, with the ability to pull and go outside. Spencer is not one of those, set him up and let him go, he will dominate his man.

Ryan Cook, New Mexico, 6-7/318, Center: He may end up as a Tackle in the NFL. He isn't real good at pulling, but he is a mauler.

Ryan O'Callaghan, Cal, 6-7, 344, Tackle: His pro day short shuttle was 4.83. Agile for a big man, but still not suited for the zone.

Andrew Whitworth, Louisiana State, 6-7/334, Tackle: A great college player durable and tough, has great straight line speed (5.15 40 yard-dash) but his three cone numbers (7.68) may limit him to being a pure power lineman.

The ZONE Blockers

Fred Matua, Southern Cal, 6-3/305, Guard: Explosive puller who has the mobility to slide laterally and focus on a target before taking him out. Attacks in both run and pass blocking and very agile.

Greg Eslinger, Minnesota, 6-3/290, Center: Eslinger played in a zone scheme at Minnesota, and may be ill equipped for even that in the NFL, with a three cone time of 7.59 at the combine. Don't be surprised to see him fall into the second day.

Rashad Butler, Miami, 6-5/293, Tackle: Extremely quick times and athleticism make him a solid bet for mid to late round clubs in need of a swing (left or right) tackle project with NFL caliber skill-set and pedigree.

Daryn Colledge, Boise St, 6-4/299, Tackle: His character, pass blocking technique and 4.58 in the short shuttle makes him an attractive pick for zone blocking teams in the NFL.

The "Tweeners"

Quite a few offensive line prospects have the tools for either zone or man blocking.

Here, we will just list those players, with the notable exception of D'Brick, who deserves further commentary.

Tackles: Winston Justice, USC, 6-6/300, Joe Toledo, Washington, 6-5/337 Eric Winston, Miami (FL) 6-7/310, Jon Scott, Texas, 6-6/305

Centers and Guards: Nick Mangold, Ohio State, 6-4/300, Davin Joseph, Oklahoma, 6-3/311

D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia, 6-5/305, Left Tackle: Due to the demands on LT's in the NFL (with right handed QB's), agility is a must, and athleticism is a requirement, his ability to pass protect is unsurpassed in this draft, but the part of D'Brick's game that often gets over looked is his run blocking ability, and how well he can hold up to bull rushes in the NFL. Reportedly, he slipped on both the 3 cone and short shuttle drills, but the numbers still remain….. 4.89 in the short shuttle is not good. Compare that to the 344 pound O'Callaghan at 4.83, and the 4.53 of Winston Justice still raises eyebrows here. Differences in track surface speed aside, in this writer's opinion, the comparisons to Ogden and Pace are premature. His upside is more along the lines of Walter Jones with Seattle.

There will always be players who surprise, and disappoint. Some can make adjustments to the NFL with good coaching, and others who seem like sure-fire hits can miss. The draft is often about the fit between player and program, more than it is about purely evaluating the player's attributes in a vacuum.

 

Rovers

Footballguy
I'm pleased we didn't get Runyan. Maybe it's just that Strahan owns him every year, and as a New Yorker, I see a lot of that, but I just feel like at 33 years old, he's overrated. I'd rather wait until after the 6/1 cuts for someone, and then draft a T in the 3rd-4th round, and hope that one of those two guys, or Marco Cavka, steps up.
Runyan would have bought us a year at RT. Now, at a minimum, we need a center and a RT. Not a bad year to be drafting O linemen, but starting two rookies could get ugly. Of course, it's going to be ugly this year anyway, but there's one bag ugly and two bag ugly. Forget Cavka.... if being assigned to NFL Europe wan't enough to convince you he's history, maybe the fact that he couldn't even crack the starting lineup over there will put the Cavka question to rest. He's a second stringer in NFL EUROPE!
Fair enough - I haven't been following Cavka's NFLE career. Of course, he may not be all the way back from injury either. I still think we'll wind up with a Scott Gragg type at RT, or possibly even Orlando Brown, and some mid-round rookie. We also don't need a center since the team has decided to start Kendall at C.
Mangini has been hinting at some things with the press lately.... and one of the things he said was that they plan on starting Kendall at guard, where is is MUCH better than he is at center. When asked who would be at center, he gave a wink-wink, nod-nod answer. There is the dark horse, Norm Katnik, the starting center for USC in 2004, signed off the SF taxi squad, and then the Jets are in a a position to get Mangold in the draft. Degory and Cook are other options. I still think the way they aggressively persued Runyan tells me they want to go with a big, run blocking RT. The Jets O line has been on the smallish side for a long time, which was great for pulling and running sweeps for Martin, but plain awful in short and goal. I think mangini is looking for a big physical O line, ala Pittsburgh, to wear down and physically dominate opponents. Just my best guess though, but I do think the way they went after Runyan tipped their hand some.
Check out this article on OL's and how the draft prospects match up system wise..http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/OLSchemes.cfm

Zone Blocking in the NFL

& the Effect on 2006 Offensive Linemen Draft Boards

Writen by J. Hanley

last updated: 03/29/06

Two draftable linemen: One for a zone scheme, the other for a man?

There are several teams in the NFL who use the zone-blocking scheme exclusively, and several more that use some elements of it. This can have a big impact on those team's draft boards, as it relates to offensive linemen. Denver, Atlanta, Houston and Washington use this scheme either exclusively or predominantly. There are other teams that use it as well, but in situational circumstances, or at least use some elements of it. Then there are teams like Pittsburgh, Kansas City and Seattle who use a man, power blocking scheme very successfully. In short, man blocking relies on a power game, and often power running backs will be successful in it. It is a very week to week, game plan oriented scheme that adjusts to that week's opponent. Zone blocking is a system that changes little from week to week, and uses faster, more athletic offensive linemen. In a zone blocking scheme, the entire unit slants, or moves in one direction on a given play. As the offensive line moves laterally, the defense tries to move with it, with each defensive linemen attempting to stay in his gap assignment. The offensive linemen will then block whatever defender is in his zone, be it a lineman, linebacker, or even a safety that has moved into the box. These O linemen most often use the cut back block, which basically means going low on the defender, and the hook block, getting under the defender's pads to get him off balance. Quickness is more important than brute power. On a running play, the RB looks for a gap to open, and often cuts back against the flow of the offensive line when it appears. Cutback RB's like Dunn do well in this system, while power RB's like Duckett tend to struggle more, not having the agility to take advantage of hitting an opening when it appears. In a power blocking man scheme, the RB runs to the hole that should be there, based on the play call. This tends to suit the power RB's better.

This is a gross oversimplification of zone blocking, but is a needed precursor to understand why zone blocking teams need faster, more athletic, quick on their feet linemen, as opposed to the traditional "road grader" types. Size, while hardly being the only consideration, plays a big part. Generally, the bigger the O linemen, the less agile and athletic he is. Comparing four teams, two that use zone, and two that use a power man scheme, the average size of the Denver and Atlanta offensive lines are 298 and 301 pounds, respectively. Pittsburgh and Kansas City's offensive lines come in at 314 and 311. Don't expect Marcus McNiell or Max Jean-Gilles to be at the top of Denver's draft board, but a player like Greg Eslinger, who played in a zone scheme at Minnesota could be higher on their draft board than Nick Mangold, and can plan their draft accordingly.

When looking for players to fit a zone blocking scheme, some workout numbers become more important: the short shuttle and 3 cone drills. Faster, more agile and athletic linemen are what teams like Denver look for. Taking some combine and pro day numbers into account, we attempt to separate the power man blockers from the pure zone blockers and note which prospects we see as "tweeners…. those who have the tools to play in either system.

DD.com Editor's note: There are variations of OL draft strategy across the league - certain teams such as San Diego, Denver, Tampa Bay and Atlanta (who has legendary OL coach Alex Gibbs) tend to take OL late in the draft and prefer to do so as it lowers expectations as the players develop. Other teams often use first day picks on the position, such as Philadelphia, Seattle and Pittsburgh.

Based on their college performances and some measurables from the combine and pro day workouts, this is where the offensive linemen in the 2006 would fit best, scheme-wise into the NFL.

The POWER Linemen:

Marcus McNeill, Auburn, 6-8/336, Tackle: The classic road grader tackle. His 5.07 short shuttle says he is a bad fit for zone blocking, but for power running teams, he's at the top of the list of RT's.

Max Jean-Gilles, Georgia, 6-4/343, Guard: His combine agility numbers were poor, but he had 31 reps on the bench. Some say he's out of shape we are talking about a player who has been over 320 pounds since he was 18. The closest thing to Larry Allen since Larry Allen.

Duece Latui, USC, 6-4/334, Guard: Like Gilles, poor agility numbers, but I would not want to be between him and a buffet. Road grader, power blocker.

Charles Spencer, Pitt, 6-5/352, Guard: This draft is deep with power blocking guards. Three of them to be exact. Many zone blocking guards tend to be mobile, with the ability to pull and go outside. Spencer is not one of those, set him up and let him go, he will dominate his man.

Ryan Cook, New Mexico, 6-7/318, Center: He may end up as a Tackle in the NFL. He isn't real good at pulling, but he is a mauler.

Ryan O'Callaghan, Cal, 6-7, 344, Tackle: His pro day short shuttle was 4.83. Agile for a big man, but still not suited for the zone.

Andrew Whitworth, Louisiana State, 6-7/334, Tackle: A great college player durable and tough, has great straight line speed (5.15 40 yard-dash) but his three cone numbers (7.68) may limit him to being a pure power lineman.

The ZONE Blockers

Fred Matua, Southern Cal, 6-3/305, Guard: Explosive puller who has the mobility to slide laterally and focus on a target before taking him out. Attacks in both run and pass blocking and very agile.

Greg Eslinger, Minnesota, 6-3/290, Center: Eslinger played in a zone scheme at Minnesota, and may be ill equipped for even that in the NFL, with a three cone time of 7.59 at the combine. Don't be surprised to see him fall into the second day.

Rashad Butler, Miami, 6-5/293, Tackle: Extremely quick times and athleticism make him a solid bet for mid to late round clubs in need of a swing (left or right) tackle project with NFL caliber skill-set and pedigree.

Daryn Colledge, Boise St, 6-4/299, Tackle: His character, pass blocking technique and 4.58 in the short shuttle makes him an attractive pick for zone blocking teams in the NFL.

The "Tweeners"

Quite a few offensive line prospects have the tools for either zone or man blocking.

Here, we will just list those players, with the notable exception of D'Brick, who deserves further commentary.

Tackles: Winston Justice, USC, 6-6/300, Joe Toledo, Washington, 6-5/337 Eric Winston, Miami (FL) 6-7/310, Jon Scott, Texas, 6-6/305

Centers and Guards: Nick Mangold, Ohio State, 6-4/300, Davin Joseph, Oklahoma, 6-3/311

D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia, 6-5/305, Left Tackle: Due to the demands on LT's in the NFL (with right handed QB's), agility is a must, and athleticism is a requirement, his ability to pass protect is unsurpassed in this draft, but the part of D'Brick's game that often gets over looked is his run blocking ability, and how well he can hold up to bull rushes in the NFL. Reportedly, he slipped on both the 3 cone and short shuttle drills, but the numbers still remain….. 4.89 in the short shuttle is not good. Compare that to the 344 pound O'Callaghan at 4.83, and the 4.53 of Winston Justice still raises eyebrows here. Differences in track surface speed aside, in this writer's opinion, the comparisons to Ogden and Pace are premature. His upside is more along the lines of Walter Jones with Seattle.

There will always be players who surprise, and disappoint. Some can make adjustments to the NFL with good coaching, and others who seem like sure-fire hits can miss. The draft is often about the fit between player and program, more than it is about purely evaluating the player's attributes in a vacuum.
:blackdot: Funny..... I wrote that! :hey:
 

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