Jim Thome - HOF Worthy? (1 Viewer)

[guru_007]

In looking into Jim Thome's career, he has put up some fantastic numbers.

Within the next month or two, he will pass Palmeiro and Killebrew to move in the top 10 of all time in home runs, with a decent shot of passing McGwire and Frank Robinson:

7. Frank Robinson 586

8. Alex Rodriguez 585

9. Mark McGwire 583

10. Harmon Killebrew 573

11. Rafael Palmeiro 569

12. Jim Thome 567

That's some pretty good company, but is it enough to merit HOF induction?

Over a 10 year span (1996-2006 - I am excluding 2005 as he only played 59 games), Thome hit 410 home runs, received mvp votes 8 times (no wins, 4 top 10 finishes), led the league in walks 3 times (led the league is k's three times), averaged 110 rbi's per year, averaged 104 runs per year, and had an obs average of ~ 1.000 (5 times above with a high of 1.102, and 5 times below, with a low of .929, but nothing else under .958)

These are some pretty gaudy offensive numbers, although Baseball reference ranks his monitor scores as borderline HOF worth.

Sooooo, what you got?

 

[Your Mom]

He is probably going to hit 600 HRs and be in the Top 8 all time. Yes he is worthy.

 

[boom king]

if youre a DH 600 hr minimum to get in.

 

[the moops]

if youre a DH 600 hr minimum to get in.

2/3 of his games played were as a 1B/3B. 500 games a 3B, 1100 as a 1B.If I had a vote, he would be in 1st ballot.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Yeah, I think he's a HOFer especially considering the era. I hope he didn't juice, I doubt it but I'm not really surprised by any name these days. I'm only sure that Griffey Jr and Greg Maddux weren't juiced up, everyone else is a possibility.

 

[bweiser]

i voted yes, but truth is, he is going to be hurt by a tremendous amount of first baseman who have had very good careers at the same time.

he needs to pass rafael palmeiro for sure. would help if he gets to 600.

 

[boom king]

had about 400ish hrs before becoming a full time DH in '06...

hall of very good, yes.

 

[guru_007]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no here and if I had a vote for the real HOF, I think it would take a lot to win me over.

At no point in watching Thome play did I ever think he was one of the top players in the game, hell he wasn't the best player, or second best player on his own team for most of his career. He was a fearsome power hitter, but then again, so was Dave Kingman during certain stretches. It's definitely hard to argue with the power/HR numbers, but to be dead honest, I think that home runs are overrated

I think Thome is going to be hurt by a lot of factors. Some of which include:

-Steroid Era

-Tons of other high home run totals by non-hof players during Thome's time

-Led the league in home runs only once during his career

-In his 20 year career, only made 5 all star teams, and a lack of hardware to his accomplishments (i.e. No MVP awards (not even a top 3 finish), never led the league in RBI's, runs, average, obp....only once led the league in slugging)

I'm sure I'm being harsh, and I know I am a tougher voter than most (although I have my weaknesses for players I prefer for sure)....but I never thought of Thome as anything more than a great middle of the lineup hitter.

I really think Palmeiro is a great barometer to Thome's HOF credibility. The only problem you are going to have is that whole steroid thing. But, take that out of the equation for a second, and Palmeiro also has a lot of home runs, but never led the league, never won an mvp award....but Palmeiro has a better case for the HOF in my opinion, buoyed by probably his 3 gold gloves. Palmeiro has better hof monitor batting scores than Thome also.

I hate the 600 home runs is automatic HOF induction argument. Give me Bagwell and his 449 home runs in the HOF. I'll take Frank Thomas and his 521 homers in the hof. I'll pass on Thome, and I'll pass on Palmeiro. Oh, I'll definitely pass 100% of the time on McGwire too.

 

[Txns8]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no here and if I had a vote for the real HOF, I think it would take a lot to win me over.At no point in watching Thome play did I ever think he was one of the top players in the game, hell he wasn't the best player, or second best player on his own team for most of his career. He was a fearsome power hitter, but then again, so was Dave Kingman during certain stretches. It's definitely hard to argue with the power/HR numbers, but to be dead honest, I think that home runs are overrated I think Thome is going to be hurt by a lot of factors. Some of which include:-Steroid Era-Tons of other high home run totals by non-hof players during Thome's time-Led the league in home runs only once during his career-In his 20 year career, only made 5 all star teams, and a lack of hardware to his accomplishments (i.e. No MVP awards (not even a top 3 finish), never led the league in RBI's, runs, average, obp....only once led the league in slugging)I'm sure I'm being harsh, and I know I am a tougher voter than most (although I have my weaknesses for players I prefer for sure)....but I never thought of Thome as anything more than a great middle of the lineup hitter. I really think Palmeiro is a great barometer to Thome's HOF credibility. The only problem you are going to have is that whole steroid thing. But, take that out of the equation for a second, and Palmeiro also has a lot of home runs, but never led the league, never won an mvp award....but Palmeiro has a better case for the HOF in my opinion, buoyed by probably his 3 gold gloves. Palmeiro has better hof monitor batting scores than Thome also.I hate the 600 home runs is automatic HOF induction argument. Give me Bagwell and his 449 home runs in the HOF. I'll take Frank Thomas and his 521 homers in the hof. I'll pass on Thome, and I'll pass on Palmeiro. Oh, I'll definitely pass 100% of the time on McGwire too.

Pretty poor postseason stats too (.222 avg, 17 HR's, 65 K's, 64 games) and no titles despite two pretty good Cleveland teams he played on. I voted no. Hall of very good for me.

 

[the moops]

His 10 most similar batters. Not a shabby list.

Harmon Killebrew (862)

Frank Thomas (861)

Mike Schmidt (860)

Willie McCovey (856)

Mickey Mantle (843)

Willie Stargell (842)

Carlos Delgado (841)

Sammy Sosa (841)

Jeff Bagwell (836)

Fred McGriff (835)

 

[shadyridr]

As long as it doesnt come out he did roids then yes

 

[shuke]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no

 

[Eephus]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no

I think this will be the logic of some voters if Thome ever retires. There are BBWA members who are anti-stats. They'll note the number of HRs but follow it up with paragraphs about how he wasn't feared, or lacked mystique, or wasn't the best player of his era, or didn't play defense. His steroid era stats will hurt him by association. Some voters will vote no out of principle. I think he'll eventually get in but it may not be until the second half of his fifteen year eligibility period

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no

I think this will be the logic of some voters if Thome ever retires. There are BBWA members who are anti-stats. They'll note the number of HRs but follow it up with paragraphs about how he wasn't feared, or lacked mystique, or wasn't the best player of his era, or didn't play defense. His steroid era stats will hurt him by association. Some voters will vote no out of principle. I think he'll eventually get in but it may not be until the second half of his fifteen year eligibility period

I'll tell you this, as a Tigers fan he was one of the most feared guys in our division for as long as I can remember. Just sayin'. I also agree he will probably never retire.

 

[guru_007]

His 10 most similar batters. Not a shabby list.Fred McGriff (835)

This list is definitely strong in his favor.McGriff stood out to me, as I think a good comparison could be made again here, and another guy I probably would not vote for the HOF unless a very compelling case won me over. McGriff for years and years was a strong middle of the lineup guy. But during his best and most memorable years, was an afterthought on the team he played for even though he batted cleanup and produced. When he was in Toronto, he led the league in home runs on year, but George Bell was winning MVP award and coming in MVP top 5. In SD he won another home run crown, but the #3 hitter was this Tony Gwynn guy who was pretty good. Hell Gary Sheffield was on that team too. And in Atlanta, he hit behind HOF'er CHipper Jones, and was surrounded by the likes of Klesko, Justice, et al. McGriff was definitely feared by all in his division, yet never the best even on his own team. McGriff tried to stick around too, to reach 500 hr's and "automatic induction". I dunno, McGriff was really good and never had the aura of steroids over his head either.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

if youre a DH 600 hr minimum to get in.

Jim Thome = 2,301 career games, 636 as DHPaul Molitor = 2,683 career games, 1,174 as DH.The DH rule shouldn't be used against worthy candidates, IMO.

 

[Raider Nation]

Congrats on #600 to a good guy and a lock Hall of Famer.

 

[Billy Bats]

Congrats on #600 to a good guy and a lock Hall of Famer.

now get him back to Philly to get his ring!

 

[Oh Yes!]

Congrats on #600 to a good guy and a lock Hall of Famer.

not a lock, but a good guy. still say no on the hall.

 

[Raider Nation]

Congrats on #600 to a good guy and a lock Hall of Famer.

not a lock, but a good guy. still say no on the hall.

Lock of all locks.

 

[Brady Marino]

Mortal lock for the HOF.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Yeah, I think he's a HOFer especially considering the era. I hope he didn't juice, I doubt it but I'm not really surprised by any name these days. I'm only sure that Griffey Jr and Greg Maddux weren't juiced up, everyone else is a possibility.

Why do you think this, because I am 100% sure he did.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no here and if I had a vote for the real HOF, I think it would take a lot to win me over.At no point in watching Thome play did I ever think he was one of the top players in the game, hell he wasn't the best player, or second best player on his own team for most of his career. He was a fearsome power hitter, but then again, so was Dave Kingman during certain stretches. It's definitely hard to argue with the power/HR numbers, but to be dead honest, I think that home runs are overrated I think Thome is going to be hurt by a lot of factors. Some of which include:-Steroid Era-Tons of other high home run totals by non-hof players during Thome's time-Led the league in home runs only once during his career-In his 20 year career, only made 5 all star teams, and a lack of hardware to his accomplishments (i.e. No MVP awards (not even a top 3 finish), never led the league in RBI's, runs, average, obp....only once led the league in slugging)I'm sure I'm being harsh, and I know I am a tougher voter than most (although I have my weaknesses for players I prefer for sure)....but I never thought of Thome as anything more than a great middle of the lineup hitter. I really think Palmeiro is a great barometer to Thome's HOF credibility. The only problem you are going to have is that whole steroid thing. But, take that out of the equation for a second, and Palmeiro also has a lot of home runs, but never led the league, never won an mvp award....but Palmeiro has a better case for the HOF in my opinion, buoyed by probably his 3 gold gloves. Palmeiro has better hof monitor batting scores than Thome also.I hate the 600 home runs is automatic HOF induction argument. Give me Bagwell and his 449 home runs in the HOF. I'll take Frank Thomas and his 521 homers in the hof. I'll pass on Thome, and I'll pass on Palmeiro. Oh, I'll definitely pass 100% of the time on McGwire too.

I mostly agree with this. I wouldn't vote him in. I don't think it's a tragedy if he makes it.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

It would be a travesty if 600 HRs is not good enough by itself to get Thome (or anyone) into the hall.

The only way he should not get in is if they prove he did roids.

 

[whoknew]

I find it hard to believe that some people are arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall. In addition to 600 HRs, he has a CAREER .403 OBP.

If you didn't consider him a great player, its your failure, not his.

 

[Tom Servo]

Although I think Thome is Hall of Fame worthy, I voted no

I think this will be the logic of some voters if Thome ever retires. There are BBWA members who are anti-stats. They'll note the number of HRs but follow it up with paragraphs about how he wasn't feared, or lacked mystique, or wasn't the best player of his era, or didn't play defense. His steroid era stats will hurt him by association. Some voters will vote no out of principle. I think he'll eventually get in but it may not be until the second half of his fifteen year eligibility period

I'll tell you this, as a Tigers fan he was one of the most feared guys in our division for as long as I can remember. Just sayin'. I also agree he will probably never retire.

One thing that most may not realize is that on that '95 team Thome batted 7th. Why? It's because you had Manny, Lofton, Belle, etc. hitting in front of him. He spent the first part of his career at 3b, only to move to first to make room for Matt Williams, etc. Thome is "country strong" and, even though he's my favorite Indian from those 90s teams, I still fear him when comes to bat even now.As RN said, lock of all locks.

 

[Tom Servo]

I find it hard to believe that some people are arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall. In addition to 600 HRs, he has a CAREER .403 OBP. If you didn't consider him a great player, its your failure, not his.

That's because he still takes a TON of walks. He whiffs a lot - not at Rob Deer levels - but he homers and walks which is unusual for a HR hitter.

 

[shadyridr]

higher OBP, SLG% and HRs than HOFer Reggie Jackson. Hes a mortal lock.

 

[FDASv2.0]

Thome is a lock. 600 made sure of that. And if that is not enough, I actually think the steroid era is going to help him get in. There very well may be a year when the only guys eligible and worthy are roid guys and Thome, and he gets voted in just to get a guy in.

 

[igbomb]

I find it hard to believe that some people are arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall. In addition to 600 HRs, he has a CAREER .403 OBP. If you didn't consider him a great player, its your failure, not his.

This. Do people not understand that this guy is more than just a HR hitter? Among his elite peers at 600 HRs, only Ruth and Bonds have higher career OBPs. And only Ruth, Bonds and Arod have higher career SLG. Guy should be first-ballot.

 

[Eephus]

I find it hard to believe that some people are arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall. In addition to 600 HRs, he has a CAREER .403 OBP. If you didn't consider him a great player, its your failure, not his.

That's because he still takes a TON of walks. He whiffs a lot - not at Rob Deer levels - but he homers and walks which is unusual for a HR hitter.

Three true outcome guys aren't that rare. What makes Thome unique among the breed is that his ratios haven't fallen off a cliff as he's aged. His year-in, year-out HR%, SO% and BB% numbers have been very consistent for the better part of two decades, much more so than his fielding dependent AVG.

 

[Eephus]

Thome is a lock. 600 made sure of that. And if that is not enough, I actually think the steroid era is going to help him get in. There very well may be a year when the only guys eligible and worthy are roid guys and Thome, and he gets voted in just to get a guy in.

Thome's biggest HR seasons occurred during the height of the steroid era.

 

[griff321]

Lock. He played the game the way it should be (at least the way baseball writers think it should be played) and put up the numbers. Thome has been great for the game.

 

[guru_007]

not sure why he's suck a lock because he hit the mystical 600.

Nothing's really changed since poll was posted.

No new awards, no playoff improvement. I know his image was not tainted by steroids, that may be his only saving grace.

I'd like to have seen more accomplishments other than a single silver slugger award. Still don't see 1st ballot hof worthy caliber player here

 

[Tom Servo]

I find it hard to believe that some people are arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall. In addition to 600 HRs, he has a CAREER .403 OBP. If you didn't consider him a great player, its your failure, not his.

That's because he still takes a TON of walks. He whiffs a lot - not at Rob Deer levels - but he homers and walks which is unusual for a HR hitter.

Three true outcome guys aren't that rare. What makes Thome unique among the breed is that his ratios haven't fallen off a cliff as he's aged. His year-in, year-out HR%, SO% and BB% numbers have been very consistent for the better part of two decades, much more so than his fielding dependent AVG.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I find it hard to believe that some people are arguing that he shouldn't be in the Hall. In addition to 600 HRs, he has a CAREER .403 OBP. If you didn't consider him a great player, its your failure, not his.

I think Thome belongs in the Hall of Fame, but you made an argument that he is a great half a player, not a great player.Thankfully he spent enough years as a mediocre 1B to give him a valid argument for inclusion.

 

[FDASv2.0]

Thome is a lock. 600 made sure of that. And if that is not enough, I actually think the steroid era is going to help him get in. There very well may be a year when the only guys eligible and worthy are roid guys and Thome, and he gets voted in just to get a guy in.

Thome's biggest HR seasons occurred during the height of the steroid era.

But if he ends up being the one "clean" guy, they have to put someone in that is not a roid guy, right?

 

[Wrigley]

Funny thing is, he would be a no-brainer if he played in a Yankee uniform

 

[Eephus]

Funny thing is, he would be a no-brainer if he played in a Yankee uniform

Well, the World Series rings wouldn't hurt him with the BBWAA

 

[D in the D]

Thome is a lock. Ozzie ####ing Smith was a first ballot HOF'er...just sayin'.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Right after they put Pete Rose in.

 

[Raider Nation]

Thome is a lock. 600 made sure of that. And if that is not enough, I actually think the steroid era is going to help him get in. There very well may be a year when the only guys eligible and worthy are roid guys and Thome, and he gets voted in just to get a guy in.

Thome's biggest HR seasons occurred during the height of the steroid era.

The height of the steroid era just happened to be Jim Thome's prime.They showed his first career HR last night. He was a STICK and he put it into the upper deck at Yankee Stadium.Thome didn't need no stinkin' roids.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Thome is a lock. 600 made sure of that. And if that is not enough, I actually think the steroid era is going to help him get in. There very well may be a year when the only guys eligible and worthy are roid guys and Thome, and he gets voted in just to get a guy in.

Thome's biggest HR seasons occurred during the height of the steroid era.

The height of the steroid era just happened to be Jim Thome's prime.They showed his first career HR last night. He was a STICK and he put it into the upper deck at Yankee Stadium.Thome didn't need no stinkin' roids.

Seriously with this? While I think Thome is / was clean....http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31bWLTbTidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

 

[Doug B]

I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone else, but Jim Thome seems to have had a HOF career without quite being a HOF-caliber player.

600 HRs and several others of Thome's numbers (e.g. career OBP) are definitely HOF-level accomplishments. But IMHO, a lot of guru's arguments in post #8 are legit.

 

[Raider Nation]

Thome is a lock. 600 made sure of that. And if that is not enough, I actually think the steroid era is going to help him get in. There very well may be a year when the only guys eligible and worthy are roid guys and Thome, and he gets voted in just to get a guy in.

Thome's biggest HR seasons occurred during the height of the steroid era.

The height of the steroid era just happened to be Jim Thome's prime.They showed his first career HR last night. He was a STICK and he put it into the upper deck at Yankee Stadium.Thome didn't need no stinkin' roids.

Seriously with this? While I think Thome is / was clean....http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31bWLTbTidL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I think maybe you missed my point. Shocking, I know.

 

[Tom Servo]

I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone else, but Jim Thome seems to have had a HOF career without quite being a HOF-caliber player.

600 HRs and several others of Thome's numbers (e.g. career OBP) are definitely HOF-level accomplishments. But IMHO, a lot of guru's arguments in post #8 are legit.

I think Thome is going to be hurt by a lot of factors. Some of which include:

-Steroid Era <<-- If you've got any evidence that he did, I'd be glad to hear it.

-Tons of other high home run totals by non-hof players during Thome's time <<-- Like who? Regardless, did they maintain those numbers as Thome has done?

-Led the league in home runs only once during his career <<-- So? If "tons of other non-hof players" were hitting bombs, it stands to reason that he would only win one HR title

-In his 20 year career, only made 5 all star teams, and a lack of hardware to his accomplishments (i.e. No MVP awards (not even a top 3 finish), never led the league in RBI's, runs, average, obp....only once led the league in slugging) <<-- This may be your only legitimate point.

You're going to have to provide some better evidence if you're going to convince anyone.

 

[Billy Bats]

1) Barry Bonds - 762

2) Hank Aaron - 755

3) Babe Ruth - 714

4) Willie Mays - 660

5) Ken Griffey Jr. - 630

6) Alex Rodriguez - 626

7) Sammy Sosa - 609

8) Jim Thome - 600

Ok, good luck keeping him out of the hall with the (legit) company he's keeping.

 

[Doug B]

I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone else, but Jim Thome seems to have had a HOF career without quite being a HOF-caliber player.

600 HRs and several others of Thome's numbers (e.g. career OBP) are definitely HOF-level accomplishments. But IMHO, a lot of guru's arguments in post #8 are legit.

-In his 20 year career, only made 5 all star teams, and a lack of hardware to his accomplishments (i.e. No MVP awards (not even a top 3 finish), never led the league in RBI's, runs, average, obp....only once led the league in slugging) <<-- This may be your only legitimate point.

You're going to have to provide some better evidence if you're going to convince anyone.

I think Thome deserves to be in the Hall. But I do see merit in the opposing arguments -- I just think the 600-HR plateau makes it a lock.The point I left in the quote above is the most compelling one to me.

 

[TobiasFunke]

1) Barry Bonds - 762 2) Hank Aaron - 755 3) Babe Ruth - 714 4) Willie Mays - 660 5) Ken Griffey Jr. - 630 6) Alex Rodriguez - 6267) Sammy Sosa - 6098) Jim Thome - 600Ok, good luck keeping him out of the hall with the (legit) company he's keeping.

It's the baseball hall of fame, not the home run derby hall of fame. Maybe you can start a home run derby hall of fame. Jackie Robinson and his 154 career homers? No chance, buddy! Jose Canseco and his 462 career homers? First ballot shoo-in!

 

[FDASv2.0]

It's the baseball hall of fame, not the home run derby hall of fame. Maybe you can start a home run derby hall of fame. Jackie Robinson and his 154 career homers? No chance, buddy! Jose Canseco and his 462 career homers? First ballot shoo-in!

You can't look past the fact that the top 30 All-Time Home Run Leaders that are eligible and not linked to steroids are in the HOF, with the exception of Fred McGriff who is a full 100+ homers behind. Top 10 all time is elite company and Pujols is the only current players even threating to enter that lofty area.