Jimmy Graham Fantasy Fallout - Enter Here (1 Viewer)

[Soulfly3]

Please forgive me if this has been discussed (if so, pls delete this thread)

An owner in our dynasty who has a championship caliber team has been trying to push Graham on a few of us, for some unknown reason... we run a 1.5ppr for TE's so trading graham to me seems outlandish when you're an odds on fave to win the league.

He wasnt asking a King's ransom either... another red flag.

I sat and thought about this.. Ok, he's in a contract dispute... so what? He'll get signed.

That's when it hit me... If Graham wants WR money... he will be designated as a WR w the league, will he not?

In that case, graham will also lose his TE status in fantasy... meaning he loses that extra .5ppr in our league, and upwards of 50pts a season.

Anyone? Am I crazy here? That's a lot of points, and a HUGE loss at the TE position

 

[ShaHBucks]

Use the WR talk to buy

 

[LawFitz]

If if granted the WR contract status, I have a feeling he'll be listed as WR/TE on most fantasy sites, which would increase his value.

 

[Soulfly3]

If if granted the WR contract status, I have a feeling he'll be listed as WR/TE on most fantasy sites, which would increase his value.

I thought about this too...

But his main argument is he's a WR. He wants to be designated and treated as one... perhaps fantasy sites list him as the NFL does. which lowers his value.

But fair point to you.

 

[Khy]

Irrelevant in my opinion. He's still a Top 5 WR and still worth a lot in fantasy. Yes, he's no longer the like 80 point gap at the TE position that he used to be in 1.5ppr league but either way he's still a monster and better than most WRs in the league. And you're also missing out on the chance that the Saints (or someone else) pays him like a WR and leaves him at TE. Then you really win.

Don't over think this, if you can get Graham cheap you do it.

 

[Soulfly3]

Irrelevant in my opinion. He's still a Top 5 WR and still worth a lot in fantasy. Yes, he's no longer the like 80 point gap at the TE position that he used to be in 1.5ppr league but either way he's still a monster and better than most WRs in the league. And you're also missing out on the chance that the Saints (or someone else) pays him like a WR and leaves him at TE. Then you really win.

Don't over think this, if you can get Graham cheap you do it.

Not a bad point.

If he were "relegated" to 1PPR, he would have finished last season as WR7

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Can't a team list a player any way they want?

 

[Khy]

Irrelevant in my opinion. He's still a Top 5 WR and still worth a lot in fantasy. Yes, he's no longer the like 80 point gap at the TE position that he used to be in 1.5ppr league but either way he's still a monster and better than most WRs in the league. And you're also missing out on the chance that the Saints (or someone else) pays him like a WR and leaves him at TE. Then you really win.

Don't over think this, if you can get Graham cheap you do it.

Not a bad point.

If he were "relegated" to 1PPR, he would have finished last season as WR7

Exactly, if you have a guy trying to trade him for anything less than top 5-10 WR value. Jump on that #### fast and laugh your way to the bank. Cause that guy is probably overthinking it the same way as you were in your original post. It helps when he's classified as a TE, but either way the dude is a animal and still produces at a Top 10 WR level. And for a solid stretch last year before he pulled up with the injury he was WR1 by a mile.

 

[ghostguy123]

He would still be really valuable, but he would lose a lot of his current value. A LOT.

He would lose about 40 points a year, plus the position change alone would hurt his value. A 300 point tight end is worth a lot more than a 300 point WR.

Double whammy.

I don't see it happening though. Even though he lined up as TE like 1/4 of the time, that is 1/4 of the time more than any WRs did.

Stupid saints shoulda known to have him line up as a TE as much as possible during blowout wins and losses.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

 

[Soulfly3]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

No idea.

But if he gets paid and listed by the Saints as WR, MFL would be stupid to leave him in as a TE, just to "please" ppl who invested in him.

If he's a WR, he's a WR.

 

[Borden]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

Why would it matter what people have invested in him? If anything they should want to change to balance the leagues. I say bring an end to the Graham reign of terror. List him as a WR.

As for the OP, the owner trying to move Graham there might be a few reasons why he's trying to move Graham. There's a chance the contract turns into a short hold out and misses some games. He could also not play if he's banged up. He might be worried that Graham takes a slide after he gets paid next year. If the owner thinks any or all of these things happen then he is likely trying to move for certain pieces/players now rather then just the best offer. Seems a bit premature to me but who knows maybe he will look like a genius by this time next year.

 

[LawFitz]

How many WRs lined up 25% of the time as an in-line TE? No way he gets listed exclusively as a WR.

 

[Jeremy]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

If the NFL says he's a WR, then he's a WR. I don't think the NFL will change the designation, but if they do I don't see how the fantasy sites could justify not doing the same.

But as others have said, if the Graham owner is looking to sell cheap because of this fear, take advantage of it. Worse case scenario, you have a very good WR.

 

[Jeremy]

How many WRs lined up 25% of the time as an in-line TE? No way he gets listed exclusively as a WR.

Randall Cobb lines up in the backfield a few times a game. Does that mean he's a RB/WR?

Man, I hope they start doing this. I have Watkins and Harvin!

 

[BroadwayG]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

If he gets listed as WR at rotoworld, he gets listed as WR in MFL

 

[cloppbeast]

As long as the Saints list him on their roster as a TE and play him at TE, his position eligibility won't change. So he may play receiver 75% of the time, he plays tight end the rest. How many other wide receivers play tight end 25% of the time? None.

 

[steveski]

How many WRs lined up 25% of the time as an in-line TE? No way he gets listed exclusively as a WR.

Randall Cobb lines up in the backfield a few times a game. Does that mean he's a RB/WR?

Man, I hope they start doing this. I have Watkins and Harvin!

A few times is different than Graham's 67% of his snaps being lined up as a WR.

 

[Soulfly3]

I started this because I feel like this has pretty big fantasy implications.

Give or take 50 fantasy points is a big deal for those of us in 1.5ppr leagues for TE, and there are a lot.

Hell, even just losing that advantage at TE would suck

 

[grateful zed]

you may get better replies in assistant coach's forum.

 

[Soulfly3]

you may get better replies in assistant coach's forum.

nope.

this is where she belongs

 

[Pickle Rody]

Jimmy Graham was the #1 scoring receiving option in my league last year through 14 regular season weeks (1 bye). Ahead of all WR's. The only negative I can see is that he may not be able to be used as a TE, which limits the number of high end receiving options a team could start. (3 WR's + JG at TE vs. 2 WR's + JG at WR + another TE option.) May not be all that bad a swap if you own the likes of Gronk (healthy?), JT or Cameron at TE.

Eh, if the guys in my leagues start offering him up for trade, I'd bite....BIG TIME. No matter what position he is classified under.

 

[DAG]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

If the NFL says he's a WR, then he's a WR. I don't think the NFL will change the designation, but if they do I don't see how the fantasy sites could justify not doing the same.

But as others have said, if the Graham owner is looking to sell cheap because of this fear, take advantage of it. Worse case scenario, you have a very good WR.

I'm imagining a poll running on FF host sites all over the country:

"The NFL has changed Jimmy Graham's status from TE to WR. Should we change Graham's status to WR in our league?"

A. Yes (11 votes)

B. No (1 vote) <-----Graham Owner

 

[Marauder]

If the Graham owner is willing to sell him relatively cheaply because of this, I'd be buying all day long. I think it is extremely unlikely that he wins this. The NFL does not want to set that precedent and have all the pass catching TE's wanting to be tagged as a WR. He's almost certainly going to end up being tagged as a TE.

And in the unlikely event that he does win you still have a very good WR. A pretty good gamble IMO.

 

[cloppbeast]

How many WRs lined up 25% of the time as an in-line TE? No way he gets listed exclusively as a WR.

Randall Cobb lines up in the backfield a few times a game. Does that mean he's a RB/WR?

Man, I hope they start doing this. I have Watkins and Harvin!

A few times is different than Graham's 67% of his snaps being lined up as a WR.

Please point out a wide receiver who lines up as a tight end 33% of the time.

 

[ghostguy123]

Maybe the saints can just sign him to a deal and this all goes away, and he stays a TE.

But if for some crazy reason they chsnge him to a wr, there is NO WAY his status can be changed to WR THIS season in fantasy for drafts thay have already talent place.

 

[Pumpnick]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

 

[ghostguy123]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

It's very unlikely he gets classified as a WR, and even if he did, you still have a sure thing excellent WR.

 

[Biabreakable]

Seems like an opportunity to buy Graham if the owner is selling assumed bad news.

 

[cloppbeast]

Unless I'm wrong, the Saints have no intention of moving him to wide receiver. This whole conversation only has come up on behalf of Jimmy Graham negotiating around the franchise tag. It has very little to do with real football. I highly doubt it will have any impact at all on the TE eligibility.

 

[Bob Barker]

Maybe the saints can just sign him to a deal and this all goes away, and he stays a TE.

But if for some crazy reason they chsnge him to a wr, there is NO WAY his status can be changed to WR THIS season in fantasy for drafts thay have already talent place.

I agree that he shouldnt be changed but MFL does change the status of players a few time before the season starts. Mainly defensive guys like DE to DT or DE to LB. It can really hurt the value of DEs when they get reclassified as LB, but most of the changes can be expected based on the teams new defensive schemes for the upcoming season

 

[KellysHeroes]

hes going to get, hes going to be the highest paid TE ever. I don't owner graham but I wouldn't worry

 

[PatsWillWin]

He's a first round dynasty startup in PPR TE required leagues. If he gets lumped into a WR, he still ends up in that top 6-7 tier of WR's, making him a borderline first round pick anyway. The only way he takes a big hit is in TE premium leagues.

 

[ghostguy123]

He's a first round dynasty startup in PPR TE required leagues. If he gets lumped into a WR, he still ends up in that top 6-7 tier of WR's, making him a borderline first round pick anyway. The only way he takes a big hit is in TE premium leagues.

The value to your team will be affected more than his startup value in reagular 1 PPR.

300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR.

I am not so sure Graham is a 1st round startup pick in all 1 PPR leagues as a TE (1.5 yes easily top 3-4), but if he was moved to a WR I dont think he is a 1st round startup pick.

Some will take him, sure. I dont think his ADP will reflect that.

But it isnt gonna happen anyway

 

[r0llin_game]

Maybe the saints can just sign him to a deal and this all goes away, and he stays a TE.

But if for some crazy reason they chsnge him to a wr, there is NO WAY his status can be changed to WR THIS season in fantasy for drafts thay have already talent place.

Fwiw, obviously not a big name in fantasy terms, but I believe Dexter McCluster was changed from WR back to RB again. Think it happened today or yesterday.

 

[PatsWillWin]

He's a first round dynasty startup in PPR TE required leagues. If he gets lumped into a WR, he still ends up in that top 6-7 tier of WR's, making him a borderline first round pick anyway. The only way he takes a big hit is in TE premium leagues.

The value to your team will be affected more than his startup value in reagular 1 PPR.

300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR.

I am not so sure Graham is a 1st round startup pick in all 1 PPR leagues as a TE (1.5 yes easily top 3-4), but if he was moved to a WR I dont think he is a 1st round startup pick.

If 300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR then why do several WR's typically go ahead of him in startups? And why wouldn't you take him there?

 

[ghostguy123]

He's a first round dynasty startup in PPR TE required leagues. If he gets lumped into a WR, he still ends up in that top 6-7 tier of WR's, making him a borderline first round pick anyway. The only way he takes a big hit is in TE premium leagues.

The value to your team will be affected more than his startup value in reagular 1 PPR.

300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR.

I am not so sure Graham is a 1st round startup pick in all 1 PPR leagues as a TE (1.5 yes easily top 3-4), but if he was moved to a WR I dont think he is a 1st round startup pick.

If 300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR then why do several WR's typically go ahead of him in startups? And why wouldn't you take him there?

Those WRs are a few years younger, and the other is Calvin. People love Calvin

I would not object to someone taking Graham in the 1st round in a regular 1 PPR for TEs, I just am not sure his ADP will be 1st round.

Although with Gronk all jacked up, I guess it makes graham more valuable...........which is another reason a 300 point TE is worth more than a 300 point WR.

And again, that is my opinion. I just think if you get 300 out of your TE that is more valuable than 300 from a WR

 

[Pumpnick]

So if he gets the wr tagand his position in fantasy is switched, does that mean those te's that played in the slot more than him will become wr on fantasy sites as well?

 

[Phenix]

If if granted the WR contract status, I have a feeling he'll be listed as WR/TE on most fantasy sites, which would increase his value.

I thought about this too...

But his main argument is he's a WR. He wants to be designated and treated as one... perhaps fantasy sites list him as the NFL does. which lowers his value.

But fair point to you.

Disagree. His main argument is he wants to be PAID like a WR, the label of position for fantasy sake is useless to him.

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Why? Because people on FBG brought this up?

He is a TE, thats what the Saints will list him as. The classification for pay has nothing to do what so ever with how the Saints will classify him on their roster. That is up to them not the NFL. Only thing up to the NFL is what his pay will be.

Some people get so mislead by some of the posts on this site by people trying to cause panic or justify answers to themselves.

He's a first round dynasty startup in PPR TE required leagues. If he gets lumped into a WR, he still ends up in that top 6-7 tier of WR's, making him a borderline first round pick anyway. The only way he takes a big hit is in TE premium leagues.

The value to your team will be affected more than his startup value in reagular 1 PPR.

300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR.

I am not so sure Graham is a 1st round startup pick in all 1 PPR leagues as a TE (1.5 yes easily top 3-4), but if he was moved to a WR I dont think he is a 1st round startup pick.

Some will take him, sure. I dont think his ADP will reflect that.

But it isnt gonna happen anyway

This makes no sense, 300 points is 300 points.

 

[mcd]

If if granted the WR contract status, I have a feeling he'll be listed as WR/TE on most fantasy sites, which would increase his value.

I thought about this too...

But his main argument is he's a WR. He wants to be designated and treated as one... perhaps fantasy sites list him as the NFL does. which lowers his value.

But fair point to you.

Disagree. His main argument is he wants to be PAID like a WR, the label of position for fantasy sake is useless to him.

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Why? Because people on FBG brought this up?

He is a TE, thats what the Saints will list him as. The classification for pay has nothing to do what so ever with how the Saints will classify him on their roster. That is up to them not the NFL. Only thing up to the NFL is what his pay will be.

Some people get so mislead by some of the posts on this site by people trying to cause panic or justify answers to themselves.

He's a first round dynasty startup in PPR TE required leagues. If he gets lumped into a WR, he still ends up in that top 6-7 tier of WR's, making him a borderline first round pick anyway. The only way he takes a big hit is in TE premium leagues.

The value to your team will be affected more than his startup value in reagular 1 PPR.

300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR.

I am not so sure Graham is a 1st round startup pick in all 1 PPR leagues as a TE (1.5 yes easily top 3-4), but if he was moved to a WR I dont think he is a 1st round startup pick.

Some will take him, sure. I dont think his ADP will reflect that.

But it isnt gonna happen anyway

This makes no sense, 300 points is 300 points.

If you think 300 points is 300 points then you're not playing the game right. Graham (TE #1) scored 110 points more than the average TE (TE #6), Calvin (WR #1) scored 41 points over the average WR (WR #12). If you want to use baseline (TE 12/ WR 24) the difference is even more pronounced. In a league that you must start a TE Graham is much more valuable than any WR. He provides almost 3x the value of Calvin & can be drafted at least round later.

 

[ghostguy123]

300 is 300 huh?

So a qb who scores 300 is the same as a kicker who scores 300 eh?

300 is only 300 if the starting requirement are all flex players.

 

[mr roboto]

Phenix proves himself again.

 

[ghostguy123]

Phenix proves himself again.

Yeah, I mean, sometimes even though someone appears to be completely wrong it's impossible to say they are 100% completely wrong because the vast majority of fantasy football is opinion.

But, he is 100% wrong here.

 

[Louche]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

I can't find it again, but someone from MFL went out on Twitter a week or two ago and said that it was highly unlikely that they would change his position. On their official Twitter account they have answered that they will not review this until there is a ruling by the NFL in Jimmy Graham's case. But I think it is important to remember that franchise tag designations and depth chart designations are not the same, and a site like MFL will not change his designation from TE to WR unless his depth chart status changes. In the past MFL used Rotoworld depth charts but they have lately communicated that they are now using the official depth charts of the teams. And if that is the case, do we really think that Jimmy Graham will be listed as a WR on the Saints' depth chart? So their depth chart would read WR Marques Colston, WR Jimmy Graham, TE Ben Watson...? It seems a bit unlikely. If he finds his grievance that will affect the franchise tag designation, but the Saints can still submit their depth chart as they see fit. I'm pretty sure he will also continue to attend TE meetings so for all matters except possibly franchise tag designation he is still going to be a tight end.

 

[Bri]

He should have been designated a WR by sites last year. (I don't care. I don't have him on my team and scoring is same for TEs and WRs...no dog in this race) Over the years, we have had so many discussions about positions. We've been into play count where a player lined up here N there and also discussed how if a guy lines up at WR but doesn't even have a pass thrown his way does it matter? FB versus RB. We've discussed soooo much more complicated issues than Graham.

On another site, someone wrote an NFL media person who answered the simple question "what determines a player's position" as where the player lines up on the field. That should be it right there.

Randall punted some and there's been leagues with punters(after he played). We often used him as an example for discussion. No one was calling him a punter because he punted a little bit. If he punted more than he threw then we could debate that. For whatever reason, the Randall chatter always came up and I think it's a great discussion starter to put things in perspective.

Further- I've been in favor of leagues NOT changing a position mid-season and it is a very odd scenario for the FF owner. If that's a rule, so be it. For 2015 though he should be changed.

 

[Soulfly3]

Graham, to me... Is a WR.

And I own him in some TE heavy leagues. But if they changed it, Id have no basis to argue, as to me he is a WR.

Id be pissed, yes... cuz im losing 50points a season and an elite TE.

But he is a WR based on where he plays. And possibly soon, how he gets paid

 

[Bri]

I don't see him being listed as WR in MFL, MFL knows that FF owners have a lot invested in him as a TE

I can't find it again, but someone from MFL went out on Twitter a week or two ago and said that it was highly unlikely that they would change his position. On their official Twitter account they have answered that they will not review this until there is a ruling by the NFL in Jimmy Graham's case. But I think it is important to remember that franchise tag designations and depth chart designations are not the same, and a site like MFL will not change his designation from TE to WR unless his depth chart status changes. In the past MFL used Rotoworld depth charts but they have lately communicated that they are now using the official depth charts of the teams. And if that is the case, do we really think that Jimmy Graham will be listed as a WR on the Saints' depth chart? So their depth chart would read WR Marques Colston, WR Jimmy Graham, TE Ben Watson...? It seems a bit unlikely. If he finds his grievance that will affect the franchise tag designation, but the Saints can still submit their depth chart as they see fit. I'm pretty sure he will also continue to attend TE meetings so for all matters except possibly franchise tag designation he is still going to be a tight end.

That's a wise move from them. They have time, why not let it play out before deciding.

As far as the depth chart-those are team specific. Some coaches and/or organizations don't take them as seriously as others. BB did some finagling years ago and I don't recall what it was but he was clearly irked by people looking too much into a depth chart. Other coaches voiced opinions and NFL team sites stopped updating them during the offseason until about training camp. We had to go to ourlads.com for an updated one.

This changed over time, but still I don't feel like every team takes it as serious as the fans do.

In some situations a coach is faced with a very close battle for position between two players. That has to be dealt with differently than listing on some chart. We don't give them a means to have 1a and 1b and....I feel like I can understand why some coaches cringe at the "depth" people will read into a depth chart.

 

[ldizzle]

How much you guys wanna bet a hybrid te-wr position is created? Same situation happened to Terrell Suggs in 2008. They created a de-lb position

 

[Bri]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem.

Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

 

[Pumpnick]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem.

Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

It does matter. I would not know if I had my starting TE or not, so i'd wind up having to pick another te early or roll the dice. I do have flex, but I definitley do not want to pick a "flex" TE in the early stages of a dynasty draft.