Jimmy Graham Fantasy Fallout - Enter Here (1 Viewer)

[Louche]

He should have been designated a WR by sites last year. (I don't care. I don't have him on my team and scoring is same for TEs and WRs...no dog in this race) Over the years, we have had so many discussions about positions. We've been into play count where a player lined up here N there and also discussed how if a guy lines up at WR but doesn't even have a pass thrown his way does it matter? FB versus RB. We've discussed soooo much more complicated issues than Graham.

On another site, someone wrote an NFL media person who answered the simple question "what determines a player's position" as where the player lines up on the field. That should be it right there.

Randall punted some and there's been leagues with punters(after he played). We often used him as an example for discussion. No one was calling him a punter because he punted a little bit. If he punted more than he threw then we could debate that. For whatever reason, the Randall chatter always came up and I think it's a great discussion starter to put things in perspective.

Further- I've been in favor of leagues NOT changing a position mid-season and it is a very odd scenario for the FF owner. If that's a rule, so be it. For 2015 though he should be changed.

But the TE position has always been a hybrid position. The difference is just that they are now being asked to line up in the slot and outside on a larger percentage of the plays. How TEs are being used has changed but that doesn't make the players wide receivers. The part that is screwed up is the format and utilisation of the franchise tag. It's primary use is currently to extend the contracts of kickers...

 

[Bri]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem.

Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

It does matter. I would not know if I had my starting TE or not, so i'd wind up having to pick another te early or roll the dice. I do have flex, but I definitley do not want to pick a "flex" TE in the early stages of a dynasty draft.

I doubt you care what position your flex is if he's getting you that production. I see your point about having to land a TE though.

What are your thoughts on drafting two top TEs?

 

[Bri]

He should have been designated a WR by sites last year. (I don't care. I don't have him on my team and scoring is same for TEs and WRs...no dog in this race) Over the years, we have had so many discussions about positions. We've been into play count where a player lined up here N there and also discussed how if a guy lines up at WR but doesn't even have a pass thrown his way does it matter? FB versus RB. We've discussed soooo much more complicated issues than Graham.

On another site, someone wrote an NFL media person who answered the simple question "what determines a player's position" as where the player lines up on the field. That should be it right there.

Randall punted some and there's been leagues with punters(after he played). We often used him as an example for discussion. No one was calling him a punter because he punted a little bit. If he punted more than he threw then we could debate that. For whatever reason, the Randall chatter always came up and I think it's a great discussion starter to put things in perspective.

Further- I've been in favor of leagues NOT changing a position mid-season and it is a very odd scenario for the FF owner. If that's a rule, so be it. For 2015 though he should be changed.

But the TE position has always been a hybrid position. The difference is just that they are now being asked to line up in the slot and outside on a larger percentage of the plays. How TEs are being used has changed but that doesn't make the players wide receivers. The part that is screwed up is the format and utilisation of the franchise tag. It's primary use is currently to extend the contracts of kickers...

Gibbs returned and we had TEs become h-backs as other teams used this too. About the same time the Jets and Colts were lining their TE out wide. The Pats have moved their TEs enough when they had two. I can understand the arguments, I'm not saying anyone is wrong to feel a certain way. It's just that in previous discussion we always ended up with the result being "well where did they line up most." Because of that, I feel it must remain that way and the discussion close the same way.

The Kordell WR QB debates were far more complex than this.

 

[Pumpnick]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem.

Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

It does matter. I would not know if I had my starting TE or not, so i'd wind up having to pick another te early or roll the dice. I do have flex, but I definitley do not want to pick a "flex" TE in the early stages of a dynasty draft.

I doubt you care what position your flex is if he's getting you that production. I see your point about having to land a TE though.

What are your thoughts on drafting two top TEs?

i'm strongly against it, thus the problem I face.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem. Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

It does matter. I would not know if I had my starting TE or not, so i'd wind up having to pick another te early or roll the dice. I do have flex, but I definitley do not want to pick a "flex" TE in the early stages of a dynasty draft.

I doubt you care what position your flex is if he's getting you that production. I see your point about having to land a TE though. What are your thoughts on drafting two top TEs?

i'm strongly against it, thus the problem I face.

The only reason you should be "strongly against it" is if the other elite TEs are going too high in your draft relative to the VBD they're expected to deliver than the elite WRs are.

In some leagues that's often the case. In others it's not (in most of my flex-eligible leagues, people tend to wait on TE as they feel RBs offer more value in the flex, which would make taking 2 top TEs a good move).

If you refuse to do it as a matter of philosophy, you can be costing yourself considerably down the road.

 

[Pumpnick]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem. Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

It does matter. I would not know if I had my starting TE or not, so i'd wind up having to pick another te early or roll the dice. I do have flex, but I definitley do not want to pick a "flex" TE in the early stages of a dynasty draft.

I doubt you care what position your flex is if he's getting you that production. I see your point about having to land a TE though. What are your thoughts on drafting two top TEs?

i'm strongly against it, thus the problem I face.

The only reason you should be "strongly against it" is if the other elite TEs are going too high in your draft relative to the VBD they're expected to deliver than the elite WRs are.

In some leagues that's often the case. In others it's not (in most of my flex-eligible leagues, people tend to wait on TE as they feel RBs offer more value in the flex, which would make taking 2 top TEs a good move).

If you refuse to do it as a matter of philosophy, you can be costing yourself considerably down the road.

I would not "refuse" to do it , but the fact is I would be willing to wait a bit longer to take a te if I already had one.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

All players entering the current fantasy year are automatically granted and grandfathered, at least for that year, the positional status of their previous year.

False, at least for MFL leagues.

DE's are switched to LB and LBs are switched to DE with regularity each pre-season. WRs become RBs and vice versa. MFL takes all of their positional information from Rotoworld who, I believe, goes strictly off of what each team lists their players at. (I also think this is how CBS does it too. Not sure on ESPN. Yahoo are the wingnuts that will give guys dual classifications for a year.) I can't remember a single time that MFL has ever given any player "dual" classification. They may swap them around a couple of times in one offseason, due to the team also listing a player different prior to camp/after camp finishes(they do this a lot more on defense than offense, where guys sometimes get crazy benefits by being classified a DE, but lining up at ton at LB....Terrell Suggs, I'm looking at you), but once the regular season begins they don't do any re-classifications.

MFL just had one round of re-classifications a few days back. If memory serves, they will have one more sometime in August before the regular season starts. I know for certain a handful of defenders had their positions changed in the most recent update and noticed McCluster went from WR to RB on offense.

Graham has remained a TE on MFL, for now, since the Saints continue to classify him as a TE. Regardless of what becomes of his contract(paid like a TE or paid like a WR), I assume the Saints are going to keep classifying him as a TE. If they do, so will Rotoworld, CBS, etc. If Rotoworld/CBS/etc keep classifying him as a TE, then most fantasy software will too.

I think it's a non-issue. He'll be a TE as long as the Saints list him as one. They probably will keep doing so.

 

[ghostguy123]

Graham, to me... Is a WR.

And I own him in some TE heavy leagues. But if they changed it, Id have no basis to argue, as to me he is a WR.

Id be pissed, yes... cuz im losing 50points a season and an elite TE.

But he is a WR based on where he plays. And possibly soon, how he gets paid

He lines up as a WR most of the time

No WR lines up as a TE EVER.

he is a TE.

But.................................maybe they need a new position, some sort of hybrid WR/TE. But for now, if you lineup at TE more than 1-2 times a game, you are a TE. Like I said, no WR does that.

 

[ghostguy123]

How much you guys wanna bet a hybrid te-wr position is created? Same situation happened to Terrell Suggs in 2008. They created a de-lb position

beat me to it, lol

 

[ghostguy123]

The only reason you should be "strongly against it" is if the other elite TEs are going too high in your draft relative to the VBD they're expected to deliver than the elite WRs are.In some leagues that's often the case. In others it's not (in most of my flex-eligible leagues, people tend to wait on TE as they feel RBs offer more value in the flex, which would make taking 2 top TEs a good move).

If you refuse to do it as a matter of philosophy, you can be costing yourself considerably down the road.

I think it's pretty clear you dont understand his issue with his upcoming draft.

It matters.....a LOT.....if his position can change AFTER the draft.

 

[Bri]

have a dynasty draft coming up this week and was planning on taking him. This makes me nervous!

Doesn't really matter. Just field a team with as many great players as you can, including him. If 1200 yards and 16 TDs gets you WR points or TE points and you lose a bunch of games in FF....it's the rest of your team, not Graham that's the problem. Last year he was drafted around the same time as WRs that would do especially good so he'd still be in a similar spot even if his position changed.

I think you should focus your attention on other players and consider Graham a sure thing regardless.

It does matter. I would not know if I had my starting TE or not, so i'd wind up having to pick another te early or roll the dice. I do have flex, but I definitley do not want to pick a "flex" TE in the early stages of a dynasty draft.

I doubt you care what position your flex is if he's getting you that production. I see your point about having to land a TE though. What are your thoughts on drafting two top TEs?

i'm strongly against it, thus the problem I face.

The only reason you should be "strongly against it" is if the other elite TEs are going too high in your draft relative to the VBD they're expected to deliver than the elite WRs are.

In some leagues that's often the case. In others it's not (in most of my flex-eligible leagues, people tend to wait on TE as they feel RBs offer more value in the flex, which would make taking 2 top TEs a good move).

If you refuse to do it as a matter of philosophy, you can be costing yourself considerably down the road.

I would not "refuse" to do it , but the fact is I would be willing to wait a bit longer to take a te if I already had one.

Well it seems (opinion could change of course) there's seven other quality TEs. So IMO you either get one of these seven or wait as long as you want because the next tier is 500ish yards and just not all that hard to land in FF.

To each his own of course, but I think he should draft two top TEs(including Graham) and use one as the flex. His last starting WR will probably suffer but I think it'll work out well overall.

I'd definitely try this in a few mocks before an actual draft

 

[Hooper31]

My opinion of Graham is tainted by the two embarrassing outings he had against Seattle this past season. He looked awful. The worst was the final play of the last game. It was like he didn't even try to run his route after getting bumped at the line of scrimmage. It's left a lasting image with me. Yes, I agree he's a super talent, but I can't help but think he's a big wuss.

"I'm Jimmy"... as the Seattle LBs just laugh at him.

 

[Soulfly3]

An NFL source calls the NFLPA's claim that Jimmy Graham should be franchise tagged as a receiver as opposed to a tight end a "naked cash grab."

That's an actual source within the NFL, as opposed to the vague "league source" we typically encounter in these kinds of stories. "It ignores Mr. Graham's use as a traditional tight end on roughly 60 percent of the snaps where he lined up within four yards of the tackle," the league's source said of Graham's argument. "It also ignores the historical use of the tight end position." The league can gripe all it wants, but the fact is, Graham lined up in the slot or out wide on 67 percent of his snaps last season. Graham could win his grievance, upping his tag from $7.035 million to $12.3 million.

Well folks...

Prepare for about 50pts a season lost w graham in TE heavy leagues.

This boy is a WR

 

[ghostguy123]

An NFL source calls the NFLPA's claim that Jimmy Graham should be franchise tagged as a receiver as opposed to a tight end a "naked cash grab."

That's an actual source within the NFL, as opposed to the vague "league source" we typically encounter in these kinds of stories. "It ignores Mr. Graham's use as a traditional tight end on roughly 60 percent of the snaps where he lined up within four yards of the tackle," the league's source said of Graham's argument. "It also ignores the historical use of the tight end position." The league can gripe all it wants, but the fact is, Graham lined up in the slot or out wide on 67 percent of his snaps last season. Graham could win his grievance, upping his tag from $7.035 million to $12.3 million.

Well folks...

Prepare for about 50pts a season lost w graham in TE heavy leagues.

This boy is a WR

How do you get that from that statement?

 

[Soulfly3]

uhhhhh.... he's getting tagged as a RECEIVER

that or he holds out or goes somewhere else. this is a sticky situation

ok, Im just gonna have to be clear - I was obviously being sensationalist... but I do believe there's a chance he doesnt end up being a TE

 

[ghostguy123]

uhhhhh.... he's getting tagged as a RECEIVER

that or he holds out or goes somewhere else. this is a sticky situation

ok, Im just gonna have to be clear - I was obviously being sensationalist... but I do believe there's a chance he doesnt end up being a TE

again, wherre from that do you get he is going to be tagged at a WR???

 

[Soulfly3]

uhhhhh.... he's getting tagged as a RECEIVER

that or he holds out or goes somewhere else. this is a sticky situation

ok, Im just gonna have to be clear - I was obviously being sensationalist... but I do believe there's a chance he doesnt end up being a TE

again, wherre from that do you get he is going to be tagged at a WR???

Is what I wrote not clear?

Forget that...

Do you understand WHY Graham hasn't signed a contract yet? I thought this was common knowledge....

He wants to be tagged/paid/signed as a WR so he can make WR money. The article even says that's what the NFLPA is arguing for

 

[ghostguy123]

uhhhhh.... he's getting tagged as a RECEIVER

that or he holds out or goes somewhere else. this is a sticky situation

ok, Im just gonna have to be clear - I was obviously being sensationalist... but I do believe there's a chance he doesnt end up being a TE

again, wherre from that do you get he is going to be tagged at a WR???

Is what I wrote not clear?

Forget that...

Do you understand WHY Graham hasn't signed a contract yet? I thought this was common knowledge....

He wants to be tagged/paid/signed as a WR so he can make WR money. The article even says that's what the NFLPA is arguing for

lol. I know all this, but why based on your post from a little but ago do you think it is more likely than it was a few weeks ago?

I mean, when you posted, it sounded like you thought it was MORE likely to happen now than it was before. I have no idea why.

 

[r0llin_game]

uhhhhh.... he's getting tagged as a RECEIVER

that or he holds out or goes somewhere else. this is a sticky situation

ok, Im just gonna have to be clear - I was obviously being sensationalist... but I do believe there's a chance he doesnt end up being a TE

again, wherre from that do you get he is going to be tagged at a WR???

Is what I wrote not clear?

Forget that...

Do you understand WHY Graham hasn't signed a contract yet? I thought this was common knowledge....

He wants to be tagged/paid/signed as a WR so he can make WR money. The article even says that's what the NFLPA is arguing for

I mean, what you wrote is clear. What you're reading and comprehending is not.

 

[Sitch]

This is all much ado about nothing. He is and always has been a TE, and will remain that way.

 

[MDSkinner]

This is all much ado about nothing. He is and always has been a TE, and will remain that way.

You may be right but I doubt it. Faust posted this in the other Graham thread and it makes sense to me.

Rotoworld:
Quote

Jimmy Graham - TE - Saints

An NFL source calls the NFLPA's claim that Jimmy Graham should be franchise tagged as a receiver as opposed to a tight end a "naked cash grab."

That's an actual source within the NFL, as opposed to the vague "league source" we typically encounter in these kinds of stories. "It ignores Mr. Graham's use as a traditional tight end on roughly 60 percent of the snaps where he lined up within four yards of the tackle," the league's source said of Graham's argument. "It also ignores the historical use of the tight end position." The league can gripe all it wants, but the fact is, Graham lined up in the slot or out wide on 67 percent of his snaps last season. Graham could win his grievance, upping his tag from $7.035 million to $12.3 million.

Source: ESPN.com

Jun 10 - 9:15 PM

It is almost twice the money if he can get this designated as WR instead of TE.

 

[Sitch]

This is all much ado about nothing. He is and always has been a TE, and will remain that way.

You may be right but I doubt it. Faust posted this in the other Graham thread and it makes sense to me.

Rotoworld:
Quote

Jimmy Graham - TE - Saints

An NFL source calls the NFLPA's claim that Jimmy Graham should be franchise tagged as a receiver as opposed to a tight end a "naked cash grab."

That's an actual source within the NFL, as opposed to the vague "league source" we typically encounter in these kinds of stories. "It ignores Mr. Graham's use as a traditional tight end on roughly 60 percent of the snaps where he lined up within four yards of the tackle," the league's source said of Graham's argument. "It also ignores the historical use of the tight end position." The league can gripe all it wants, but the fact is, Graham lined up in the slot or out wide on 67 percent of his snaps last season. Graham could win his grievance, upping his tag from $7.035 million to $12.3 million.

Source: ESPN.com

Jun 10 - 9:15 PM

It is almost twice the money if he can get this designated as WR instead of TE.

Sure, IF he can get designated as a WR - but, read that blurb again. I suppose anything is possible, but for FF purposes, he'll be a TE.

 

[MDSkinner]

This is all much ado about nothing. He is and always has been a TE, and will remain that way.

You may be right but I doubt it. Faust posted this in the other Graham thread and it makes sense to me.

Rotoworld:
Quote

Jimmy Graham - TE - Saints

An NFL source calls the NFLPA's claim that Jimmy Graham should be franchise tagged as a receiver as opposed to a tight end a "naked cash grab."

That's an actual source within the NFL, as opposed to the vague "league source" we typically encounter in these kinds of stories. "It ignores Mr. Graham's use as a traditional tight end on roughly 60 percent of the snaps where he lined up within four yards of the tackle," the league's source said of Graham's argument. "It also ignores the historical use of the tight end position." The league can gripe all it wants, but the fact is, Graham lined up in the slot or out wide on 67 percent of his snaps last season. Graham could win his grievance, upping his tag from $7.035 million to $12.3 million.

Source: ESPN.com

Jun 10 - 9:15 PM

It is almost twice the money if he can get this designated as WR instead of TE.

Sure, IF he can get designated as a WR - but, read that blurb again. I suppose anything is possible, but for FF purposes, he'll be a TE.

Oh, I definitely agree. But I would not be surprised if he fought this all that he could to make it happen. That is too much money not to and possibly even hold out for. I think there are more ways that this could impact Fantasy Football than just the designation.

 

[Soulfly3]

Sure, IF he can get designated as a WR - but, read that blurb again. I suppose anything is possible, but for FF purposes, he'll be a TE.

So, FF is just going to ignore the fact that he is listed as a WR, potentially?

No. They'll designate him as whatever he gets listed as. If he gets paid like a WR, he will be designated as a WR

 

[Khy]

Honestly, I think we're more likely to see the minimum for TEs raised to be closer in line with the WR minimum than to see Graham tagged as a WR. Trading him as a WR would open a huge can of worms for the league where every pass catching TE will start asking for the same treatment. I'd say it's far more likely that they raise the TE minimum from the $7 million to $10-11 million to solve this issue.

 

[BroadwayG]

Can the saints 'undo' the tag if his position is switched?

 

[Phenix]

Sure, IF he can get designated as a WR - but, read that blurb again. I suppose anything is possible, but for FF purposes, he'll be a TE.

So, FF is just going to ignore the fact that he is listed as a WR, potentially?

No. They'll designate him as whatever he gets listed as. If he gets paid like a WR, he will be designated as a WR

I gather this is hard for some to understand. This has been said a few times but its clear Soulfly does not read anything anyone writes that might provide info he does not want to hear.

No, if the Saints list him as a TE he will be a TE, if the league says he earns the salary of a WR the Saints can still list him as a TE, because that is the position he will play for the team. This designation is for salary via the league not position he will play at on the Saints roster.

The story people are trying to make of this is pretty funny. This is a salary hearing only and has absolutely zero effect on what position he will be on the Saints roster. If they say he gets WR money he will still be a TE to the Saints.

Graham is not winning this anyways, if the league source is accurate with the Ditka remarks, Graham has absolutely no chance.

Both sides should stop being greedy and work out the best deal for an elite TE.

 

[Sabertooth]

Doesn't something have to like, I don't know, happen before there can be fallout from it?

 

[Soulfly3]

I gather this is hard for some to understand. This has been said a few times but its clear Soulfly does not read anything anyone writes that might provide info he does not want to hear.
No, if the Saints list him as a TE he will be a TE, if the league says he earns the salary of a WR the Saints can still list him as a TE, because that is the position he will play for the team. This designation is for salary via the league not position he will play at on the Saints roster.

???

I have no horse in this race.

But you're acting as though it's NOT POSSIBLE that he gets switched to WR. How is it not possible? Is there a rule that this can't happen?

Put it this way, if the Saints magically just pay him as a WR, but keep him as a TE - does that not open an entire can of worms for the whole league?

Every TE is going to look for WR money, claiming they're a WR. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to have to come to an agreement on how to treat this case, because it will be a landmark decision that affects cap space immensely.

Im not saying im right. I have no ####### clue how this is gonna turn out. But I do think there's every bit of possibility that they may convert him to a WR for more than one reason.

To say this has zero chance of happening is pretty ludicrous, imo

 

[Sitch]

I gather this is hard for some to understand. This has been said a few times but its clear Soulfly does not read anything anyone writes that might provide info he does not want to hear.
No, if the Saints list him as a TE he will be a TE, if the league says he earns the salary of a WR the Saints can still list him as a TE, because that is the position he will play for the team. This designation is for salary via the league not position he will play at on the Saints roster.

???

I have no horse in this race.

But you're acting as though it's NOT POSSIBLE that he gets switched to WR. How is it not possible? Is there a rule that this can't happen?

Put it this way, if the Saints magically just pay him as a WR, but keep him as a TE - does that not open an entire can of worms for the whole league?

Every TE is going to look for WR money, claiming they're a WR. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to have to come to an agreement on how to treat this case, because it will be a landmark decision that affects cap space immensely.

Im not saying im right. I have no ####### clue how this is gonna turn out. But I do think there's every bit of possibility that they may convert him to a WR for more than one reason.

To say this has zero chance of happening is pretty ludicrous, imo

Sure, there is a non-zero chance it happens. There is also a non-zero chance that I win the next powerball drawing too and start dating Kate Upton (although I'm sure my wife would have a problem with that )

 

[massraider]

I gather this is hard for some to understand. This has been said a few times but its clear Soulfly does not read anything anyone writes that might provide info he does not want to hear.
No, if the Saints list him as a TE he will be a TE, if the league says he earns the salary of a WR the Saints can still list him as a TE, because that is the position he will play for the team. This designation is for salary via the league not position he will play at on the Saints roster.

???

I have no horse in this race.

But you're acting as though it's NOT POSSIBLE that he gets switched to WR. How is it not possible? Is there a rule that this can't happen?

Put it this way, if the Saints magically just pay him as a WR, but keep him as a TE - does that not open an entire can of worms for the whole league?

Every TE is going to look for WR money, claiming they're a WR. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to have to come to an agreement on how to treat this case, because it will be a landmark decision that affects cap space immensely.

Im not saying im right. I have no ####### clue how this is gonna turn out. But I do think there's every bit of possibility that they may convert him to a WR for more than one reason.

To say this has zero chance of happening is pretty ludicrous, imo

It's not impossible.

Consider that point conceded.

 

[ghostguy123]

Graham wants more money. He doesn't give a damn if he is labeled a fullback or a linebacker.

It's posturing. It's POOR posturing cause there is no way (0.000001%) he gets switched to a WR.

For one, he lined up at the traditional TE spot like 1/3 of the time (no WR does that in history), plus there is grey area on many of his snaps as to whether or not it would be considered a WR spot or a TE spot based on how close he was lined up to the tackle.

I mean, I can't blame him for trying. He is holding out for more money (as he probably should), and while he is twiddling his thumbs doing that, may as well throw another headache at the Saints to maybe sway them to bite and pay just a little bit more to get it done.

 

[Insomniac]

Every TE is going to look for WR money, claiming they're a WR. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to have to come to an agreement on how to treat this case, because it will be a landmark decision that affects cap space immensely.

I'd imagine nearly every player is going to look for as much $ as they can get. However the eligibility for tags is clearly set out in the CBA. This only applies to players who can show that they played most of their plays at a different position than the one teams are trying to tag them at. It will have no effect on players that aren't tagged and nearly no effect on the league salary structure. There just aren't that many players that play most of their plays at a position other than the one they are tagged for.

The language in the CBA is about as clear as legalese can possibly be.

"The Exclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Salaries in Player Contracts for that League Year as of the end of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period that League Year, as set forth in Article 9, Section 2( e), for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year, or (B) the amount of the Required Tender under Subsec­tion (a)(i) above, whichever is greater."

Obviously many players play different positions during the course of a game/season. The language of the CBA breaks down position based on individual plays. A player not lined up right next to the T or 1 yard back from right next to the T is not playing TE on that play. If the player is split out then he's playing WR on that play no matter what it says on the team depth chart.

 

[WagesOfZin]

in reference to the OP, if the deal makes sense for graham as a WR, you pounce. points are points and graham figures to be gobbling up a ton of the pretty hefty pie that is the saints passing offense for a long time to come. if he is listed as a WR, you have a rock solid long term starter. if he remains a tight end, yahtzee.

 

[Leonidas]

The value to your team will be affected more than his startup value in reagular 1 PPR.300 at TE is a lot more valuable than 300 at WR.

I am not so sure Graham is a 1st round startup pick in all 1 PPR leagues as a TE (1.5 yes easily top 3-4), but if he was moved to a WR I dont think he is a 1st round startup pick.

Some will take him, sure. I dont think his ADP will reflect that.

But it isnt gonna happen anyway

This makes no sense, 300 points is 300 points.

This is the worst post I have ever seen from you.

Seriously.

 

[Grahamburn]

Chances he ends up being both? At least for 2014.

 

[zamboni]

in reference to the OP, if the deal makes sense for graham as a WR, you pounce. points are points and graham figures to be gobbling up a ton of the pretty hefty pie that is the saints passing offense for a long time to come. if he is listed as a WR, you have a rock solid long term starter. if he remains a tight end, yahtzee.

There's a very significant difference in his value if he's a TE than if he's a WR.

 

[LawFitz]

IMO -

IF he wins the appeal and is treated as a WR for his contract, the most likely positional change in fantasy formats is from TE to WR/TE, not to WR, so if anything his value increases.

SF3, before you flame me, I'm not saying there's no chance of a change to just WR, just that it's the least likely possibility, again IMO.

 

[Soulfly3]

SF3, before you flame me, I'm not saying there's no chance of a change to just WR, just that it's the least likely possibility, again IMO.

Why would I flame you?

I said I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen

 

[mquinnjr]

Chances he ends up being both? At least for 2014.

On ESPN at least, IIRC (I'm on mobile), if a player starts one game at a position in year x, he is eligible at that position for fantasy purposes for Year x and year x+1. Thus, the Joe Webb threads a few years ago when he was eligible to be started at WR when he was playing a handful of games at QB.

I know there are tons of different FF hosting sites out there, but that's where I father we're headed for anyone playing ESPN, in the worst FF case that he becomes designated a WR.

 

[Ted Mullins]

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/06/jimmy_graham_cornerback_compar.html

Not sure I really agree, but there's an article today with some research on Graham, particularly vs corners.

 

[habsfan]

What did the Saints list Colston as in his rookie season?

 

[massraider]

What did the Saints list Colston as in his rookie season?

That was a Yahoo thing, not an every-fantasy-website kind of thing. No one knows why the boneheads at Yahoo listed him as a WR/TE.

Look, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Graham gets reclassified. it's just really, really, really, really unlikely. One man's clever money demand isn't a reason for a team to suddenly list him at another position.

 

[cstu]

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/06/jimmy_graham_cornerback_compar.html

Not sure I really agree, but there's an article today with some research on Graham, particularly vs corners.

Teams treated Graham as if he were a wideout in some situations last season by placing a cornerback on him in pass coverage. But despite opponents defending Graham as if he were a wideout, no personnel executive or front-office type would dare consider him a true wide receiver.

A top-flight wide receiver is typically covered by a cornerback on every play.

I charted every pass route Graham ran last season, including the postseason, and cornerbacks were involved in coverage on 177 of Graham's 630 routes. Brees only threw a pass toward Graham 38 times in the 2013 season against a cornerback. Graham caught 20 of those 38 passes (52.6 percent success rate).

Graham's 52.6 percent success rate vs. corners would rank 91st out of 111 wide receivers last season, nestled between St. Louis' Brian Quick and former Cowboys wideout Miles Austin, according to the catch percentage rate compiled at Pro Football Focus. It would be the lowest rate among Saints wide receivers. By comparison, teammate Marques Colston ranked 11th last year, catching 70.1 percent of the passes thrown his direction.

 

[cstu]

Call me crazy, but I'd put a CB on him...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The way this is supposed to work is that if a defense put a CB on Graham the Saints would make that team pay in some other way, particularly in a RB or WR pattern.

Problem is it just didn't work like it had previously, especially the downfield stuff with the WRs. Graham even when he plays the position is not a true WR, the idea is to crate mismatches. Anyone can be covered, but only at the expense of leaving other options open. The Saints' problem last year, while still a top 5 yardage offense but falling to just top 10 in points, was in failing to male teams pay via those other options, and IMO that was a reflection of a lack of talent at the WR position (and to some extent Brees' stubborn over-reliance on Sproles). This was also reflected in a higher number of coverage sacks than they've had in recent years.

 

[ghostguy123]

The way this is supposed to work is that if a defense put a CB on Graham the Saints would make that team pay in some other way, particularly in a RB or WR pattern.

Problem is it just didn't work like it had previously, especially the downfield stuff with the WRs. Graham even when he plays the position is not a true WR, the idea is to crate mismatches. Anyone can be covered, but only at the expense of leaving other options open. The Saints' problem last year, while still a top 5 yardage offense but falling to just top 10 in points, was in failing to male teams pay via those other options, and IMO that was a reflection of a lack of talent at the WR position (and to some extent Brees' stubborn over-reliance on Sproles). This was also reflected in a higher number of coverage sacks than they've had in recent years.

I would say that offense over achieved. Outside of a tight end, then had nothing but average players on offense at WR and RB. Shows you how good Brees really is.

 

[Catbird]

Every TE is going to look for WR money, claiming they're a WR. The NFL and the NFLPA are going to have to come to an agreement on how to treat this case, because it will be a landmark decision that affects cap space immensely.

I'd imagine nearly every player is going to look for as much $ as they can get. However the eligibility for tags is clearly set out in the CBA. This only applies to players who can show that they played most of their plays at a different position than the one teams are trying to tag them at. It will have no effect on players that aren't tagged and nearly no effect on the league salary structure. There just aren't that many players that play most of their plays at a position other than the one they are tagged for.

The language in the CBA is about as clear as legalese can possibly be.

"The Exclusive Franchise Tender shall be a one year NFL Player Contract for (A) the average of the five largest Salaries in Player Contracts for that League Year as of the end of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period that League Year, as set forth in Article 9, Section 2( e), for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which he participated in the most plays during the prior League Year, or (B) the amount of the Required Tender under Subsec­tion (a)(i) above, whichever is greater."

Obviously many players play different positions during the course of a game/season. The language of the CBA breaks down position based on individual plays. A player not lined up right next to the T or 1 yard back from right next to the T is not playing TE on that play. If the player is split out then he's playing WR on that play no matter what it says on the team depth chart.

I find it surprising that most people are completely ignoring this post. If by contract terms a player's position for salary cap reasons (which is about the most important - $$$ - reason there is for having positions formally designated) says its based on where you lined up on the majority of your plays, that's a pretty strong reason to think the end result might be, for Graham and maybe a few other TEs that line up outside as much as inside, that guys are classified at the position they line up at most often. I'm with Soulfly in having no idea how this will be resolved, but I am with him as well that not considering there may be a significant shift in position alignment for Graham is a risky proposition.